₦airaland Forum

No, He will take his time.

oludunamis:
What Nigerian companies don't make room for is growth from technician to engr, in the UK u can even start with o levels and study for various technical quals and eventually become an engr.

Just look at the HND holders as somebody, give some values to the the holders then no body will feel BAD again. LEPERS are better than HND certificate owners in Nigeria. Going to Polytechnic was a direct sentence in Nigeria

TURNING POLYTECHNICS INTO VARSITIES
www.tribune.com.ng
THE reform in the education sector appears to be taking a dangerous and worrying dimension. The Federal Government has announced the scrapping of Higher National Diploma programmes across the country. The announcement signalled the demise of polytechnics and colleges of technology in the country.
ACCORDING to the chairman, Presidential Technical Committee on Consolidation of Tertiary Institutions, Professor Mahmud Yakubu, polytechnics and colleges of technology would be transformed into universities. Professor Yakubu said the scrapping was to permanently resolve the alleged discrimination against polytechnic in favour of university graduates. Professor Yakubu said the scrapping would, in the first instance, apply to federal polytechnics with state polytechnics following suit.
PROFESSOR Yakubu was quoted as saying that the conversion of the federal polytechnics into universities would be concluded in a matter of months, that all academic staff of the affected polytechnics would be absorbed and retrained for them to meet and cope with the challenges occasioned by the conversion.
LAST year, the Federal Government had upgraded the Yaba College of Technology, Lagos, and the Kaduna Polytechnic, Kaduna, into city universities. Professor Yakubu was at the Yaba College of Technology on a fact-finding mission as part of the preparations for the transformation of the school into a university when he announced the scrapping of the HND programmes.
POLYTECHNIC and colleges of technology were established to produce technically oriented experts who can fix technical problems in the industries. There are no complaints from any quarter that industries no longer need the services or expertise provided by these polytechnic graduates. On the other hand, universities, the world over, are to teach, research and expand frontiers of knowledge for the development and progress of mankind. Its academic operations are grounded on solid theoretical base. It is through this that new ground is broken and scientific and technological breakthroughs are accomplished. In other words, universities and polytechnics, in the real sense, do not perform similar functions, rather their services and functions complement each other for the benefit of the society.
THE Federal Government had, over 30 years ago, addressed the discrimination against polytechnic graduates by putting them on the same salary entry point with their university compatriots. Many industries and private outfits have complied fully with this policy of government.
AND only last year, President Olusegun Obasanjo removed the ceiling placed on the advancement of polytechnic graduates in the civil service. By the president’s pronouncement, polytechnic graduates could rise to the same salary level and grade in the civil service as their university counterparts. Where then is the discrimination Professor Yakubu gave as the reason for the conversion of polytechnics into universities?
THE problems in the education sector are much more than that of discrimination against polytechnic graduates. The sector is greatly bedevilled by serious problems which are profound and fundamental.
FOR instance, over the years, no Nigerian university has measured up to world standards. This explains why none of the nation’s universities has ranked among the best 100 universities in the world in the last 10 years. This is a problem which should catch the attention of the authorities instead of dissipating energy on problems that have been largely resolved.
IN the last 20 years, almost all the universities have been subjected to embarrassing deterioration. Infrastructure needed for meaningful teaching , learning and research is grossly inadequate. While the Academic Staff Union of Universities (ASUU) has made several presentations to the government to address the numerous problems of the nation’s universities, particularly the problem of funding, successive administrations have failed to address these problems.
THE result of this is the production of half-baked graduates who cannot cope with or meet societal and industrial demands or expectations. This was even attested to by the immediate past executive secretary of the National Universities Commission, Professor Peter Okebukola, who described these graduates as nothing but “write-offs.” No verdict can be worse.
WHAT the education sector really requires are well-focused and clear-headed managers, especially at the level of the Federal Ministry of Education, and not confusionists as the situation appears to be now. A clear-headed minister of education who really understands the demands of the ministry will know that the problem of tertiary education in the country is majorly that of funding.
WHAT the polytechnics and the universities in the country actually need is adequate funding for them to meet their infrastuctural needs so as to produce quality graduates who will in turn meet the demands of the nation’s industries and the society at large. This is the standard practice in better organised societies.
POLITICAL leaders in the country should be wary of some so-called high-fliers and experts who only pretend that they have solutions to some problems when, in fact, they have little or no understanding of the situation at hand. It is very dangerous for the country’s political leaders to be cheaply convinced by the proposals of these confused minds.
WE say with all emphasis that Nigeria cannot cope with the conversion of all the polytechnics into universities. The idea is not only disastrous but criminal as well and can only be the final onslaught on the education sector. President Obasanjo should not allow himself to be used to lay the foundation for such a disaster.

Than u janwua please join us

Re: B. Sc. vs HND: An Unsettled Case?
« #98 on: September 11, 2006, 04:43 PM »

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Infact we are going to give government one last chance. If they fail to make to meet to the demands of polytechnics and polytechnic graduates, we will mobolize all poly graduates and poly staff to carryout a national demonstration and campaign for the closure of all polytechnics in nigeria. We will no longer need polytechnics again; let everybody go to university and get any degree he/she wants. Why should polytechnics exist in nigeria when they are of no significance??

Let call all HND holder to join us giving thanks to Nairaland. we are able to educate Nigerian on the issue.

Hope is still alive better than before. We can now call on people.

What will make them not to agree? After killing Engineering in Nigeria? Technology will wake up to take care of what engineering left. All depend on Government

That is why we are saying that let test skill instead of paper qualification. skill will prove us out not certificate engineering

Thank you, May be because I am an HND holder before other qualification. I knew NSE as MAFIA. They only carry out to the letter what the Government policy dectates. It is better that we speak out.

We are hoping Yaadua will seal it.

I respect NSE because I am a member. The Technologist should be given a level ground to play.

Than you, I now remember that I was a corp member 21years ago at a state call Gongola with the capital at Yola. It is for sincere and mature men then not fraudulent cheaters half baked unemployable graduate without skill. May be then pinokio was in nursery school. We were thinking we could help. I ran two masters degree at the same time but one is useless now. Here I rest my case as I do not think I have time for an arrogant boy not old enough to be my son

pinokio:
AN OPINION IS LIKE AN ANUS; EVERY BODY HAS ONE. 4 UR INFORMATION I RAN BOTH COURSES CONCURRNTLY. GOT MY HND IN 2004, AND BY BSC IN 2005. SO HND-HOLDER HAVE SOME RESPECT, AND DONT HATE, JUST APPRECIATE. IF U'VE GOT NOTHING BETTER TO SAY PLEASE LOG OUT AND GO HOME SO THAT RIGHT THINKING, POSITIVE PEOPLE CAN AIR THEIR VIEWS IN A MORE ENLIGHTENED MANNER. THANK YOU, NOW SCRAM!

Get one thing clear you can not use one of the certificate. It is a fraudulent practice.

Degree of waste.

The relegation of technical know-how in general manifests in many ways in Nigerian society. Parents want their children to become doctors and lawyers but rarely do they recommend Technologists and Technicians as role models for their kids. When you mention technical education, people think of nitty-gritty hard labour jobs, out in the sun in shorts and rolled up sleeves stained with oil and grease. But we cannot also fail to recognize the dangers posed to Nigeria's progress by the national obsession with white-collar professions and vocations at the expense of the no-less-important technical education and skills acquisition aspect. This issue has assumed alarming dimensions in the context of the increasing importance of technical know-how and technology in general in world development. The uncomfortable truth staring at us is that the modern world is TECHNOLOGY DRIVEN, with fewer premiums on memo-pushing white-collar jobs that lure our people. The urgent steps  taken by the federal government to realign our educational bearings is highly welcome it will dovetail into the ongoing worldwide technological revolution.

After HND it should be a masters degree. What is the relationship, an engineering HND and a degree in MATHS not even educational MATHS, industrial maths for that matter in NIgeria, it equals to WASTE of TIME at least 8 wasted years for degree sake.

There is hierarchy in the scheme of the COREN that provides
for                Craftsmen, technicians from technical colleges


theoretical technicians (ND) holders from polytechnics 

the Technologists (HND) holders from both polytechnic and universities,

Engineers degree and PGD holders.

All these categories have their functions because of lack of value for the Technologists and the societal discriminations every body wanted a conversion, then this means everyone would be at par, making everyone an Engineer
This has swell the register of Engineers already 16,000 engineers to 300 technologists , leaving few to performs other duties and functions, the discriminations between HND and degree holders were responsible for this sad development.

“With the scrapping of HND programmes, engineering (not TECHNOLOGY) is doomed in this country because there will be scarcity of middle level manpower(SLAVES).” this was the views of the Nigerian Society of Engineers on recent scrapping of Higher National Diploma programmes and polytechnics education by the Federal Government.
The American Model designates holders of the 4-yr engineering technology program (BS ET) as Engineers, the same way as the holder of the HND or CNAA degree is in the British system, Why this so much resistance by NSE to accepting HND holder in Nigeria? NSE kill HND in Nigeria not the Federal Government

The man was simply runing from HND stigmmaattiizzzzatiions He should come back now, let him get registered with computer hardware/software school, he is a material for the future Nigeria-sat-7.

I think he must be thinking that HND holders are middle level. He did not check the HND sylabuss well that I knew better. He is his masters voice.

Grant Polytechnics Degree Awarding Status – ASUP
From Wole Ayodele in Lokoja, 05.04.2007 http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=77176
Kogi
The Federal Polytechnic, Idah Chapter, has appealed to the Federal Government to grant degree awarding status to Polytechnics with the required infrastructures and manpower, as it is being practiced in Europe and some African countries, following scrapping of the award of Higher National Diploma (HND) Certificate by Polytechnics and the subsequent merger of some with universities for the award of Bachelor of Technology Degree, Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics (ASUP), said.
In a press release signed by Chairman of the Union, Engineer Danjuma Ocheja Attah, the Union decried the total abolition of polytechnics, and its merger with Universities, stressing that “some of the universities are not better than some polytechnics in the area of facilities.”
According to ASUP, abolition of polytechnics will have adverse effects on the technological development of the country, noting that it is unwise for a developing country like Nigeria to do away with an institution established to play pivotal roles in its technological advancement.
Citing the example of Federal Polytechnic, Idah, which has been merged with the University of Agriculture, Makurdi, the Union emphasised that the polytechnic has more facilities and manpower that could transform it into a full-fledged University of Technology instead.
“The Federal Polytechnic, Idah, has the required infrastructure and manpower to facilitate its transformation to a full-fledged University of Technology, and one has to commend the Rector, Professor Joseph Ndanusa Egila, for his foresight and attention to the development of both academic and infrastructure, as this has placed the institution ahead of other Polytechnics in the country.” Expressing ASUP’s displeasure, Attah said “ASUP is totally against the decision and will do its best to ensure polytechnics retain its status.”
On the running of humanity based courses by Polytechnics, the Union stated that running humanity based courses by Polytechnics has not in any way affected the main objectives for which they were established, adding that polytechnics have lived up to expectation in their core areas of mandate.

NSE decries scrapping of HND
Nigeria Tribune, Kunle Awosiyan, Lagos - 21.05.2007
THE Nigerian Society of Engineers has said the recent scrapping of Higher National Diploma programmes and polytechnics education by the Federal Government would cause the collapse of engineering in the country.
The President of the society, Engineer Emeka Ezeh, said this in a lecture, “Scrapping of HND Programmes and Polytechnics: The Implication for Technical Education in Nigeria,” at the Federal Polytechnic, Ilaro Alumni Association’s annual lecture in Ogun State on Saturday.
The Federal Government had taken a decision to discontinue HND in federal polytechnics, stating that the institutions would become campuses of proximate universities under its higher institutions consolidation programme.
However, Ezeh said, “With the scrapping of HND programmes, engineering is doomed in this country because there will be scarcity of middle level manpower.”
Ezeh, who was represented by Professor Olusegun Adebisi described the government’s agenda as a standing order and an expensive venture that might lack adequate implementation because of funding challenges in the future.
“Government action was based on a biased committee advice because this step will not solve the discrimination that HND graduates are facing in the employment market.
“Nigeria requires more technologists than engineers. The consolidation should have been the other way round.
“Afterall, many polytechnics are more equipped than universities in term of technology equipment. Many of us see the consolidation as superficial, which may not resolve the crises of underdevelopment.”
He explained that the engineering family required four technologists to work with an engineer, but with the scrapping of polytechnic education, the number of technologists would reduce while that of engineers would increase.

This man need experience in one of the two fields. Or should go and teach by obtaining Academic masters Degree. He has overjumped. We are not advanced to the level of indusrial maths yet, Try computer skill /operation research

Thanks to all, When will the house pass this law.

They are going to start running ND/BTech programs from next session
Waiting for news because everybody is silent about but the draft bill is ready. Yaadua may complete it.

HND slave qualification is no longer for us.

God is great

Welcome as we are now in transistion level. Asup must be warming up For ASUU level

So if the polytechnic is scraped let it be with NBTE and ASUP so that HND that Nigerian hate so much as DEVIL can die.

No knowledge gain from school

HND is not the point, Nigerian simply do not want polytechnic. So ASUP member shall now be ASUU they will now be University lecturer. Nothing change except expansion of university like Silsoe college former Uk polytechnic now campus of Cranfield University. They still have the HND stuff with PhD and D.Engr.

Why will you continue to produce what the society will not LOVE. We are their product, How many HND holders in ASUP? ASUP is myopic and selfish. University make use of their product why cant Polytechnic do that.

The so call graduates are just mafia looking for job for their product, they want slaves we are calling for FREEDOM

ASUP planned strike ill-advised -Leo Okereke, NATE president

Before now, graduates of polytechnics were treated as
poor cousins in relation to their counterparts from
the universities. The reason being that the Higher
National Diploma offered by the polytechnics is
considered rather inferior to the degree. To underline
this discrimination, most employers of labour in the
country apart from giving undue preference to
university graduates during their job recruitment also
did not see anything wrong in placing a ceiling above
which holders of HND could not be promoted.

But this is one state of affairs that has received a
lot of knocks from several quarters, especially from
those concerned who considered the existing disparity
between these two categories of graduates as rather
untenable since it is not based on any known
parameters of performance or competence on the job.

  The Federal Government may have been persuaded to
buy their argument as it recently erased the disparity
between Higher National Diploma from polytechnics and
first degrees in universities. In this exclusive
interview with our Imo State Correspondent, Chidi
Nkwopara, the National President, Nigerian Association
of Technologists and Engineers (NATE), Chief Leo
Okereke, is full of gratitude to the Federal
Government for taking the step to redeem the values
and job ratings of products of polytechnics, just as
he cautions teachers in the nation’s polytechnics
against embarking on an ill-advised strike at a time
they should be celebrating the government’s
heart-warming gesture. Excerpts:

HOW do members of NATE see the recent cancellation of
the disparity between HND holders and degree holders?
We are very grateful to the Federal Executive Council
(FEC) for ratifying the new policy on education
reforms, making HND to be at par with first degree.
The HND holders in Nigeria will not forget this
administration in a hurry, especially those who
thought they made a mistake by attending polytechnic
or College of education.

Don’t you think that those who have sat on this
development over the years may ultimately have a
different view from you?
Anybody has a right to his or her own view. Such
person or persons have the right to commend or condemn
any administration depending on how it impacts on the
individual or individuals. I must say that this
administration headed by Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is
the best as far as HND holders are concerned. We are
very grateful to Baba for bailing graduates of the
country’s polytechnics from years of educational
discrimination.

What do you have to say about the claim that the
matter was not debated exhaustively before the Federal
Government took the decision?
Those who feel that the stakeholders did not debate
the matter exhaustively are only being economical with
the truth. This discrimination in remuneration and
limit to progression in work place has been going on
for the past 30 years. Some HND holders have been on
14-year stagnation sentence on Grade Level 14 in
various ministries all over the federation. This is
not fair in any way. Apart from bringing an end to the
rancour and unnecessary dissipation of energy which
the dichotomy between HND and first degree have
generated over the years, it is justice at last for
the HND holders who have been at the mercy of
entrenched civil servants who are the protagonists of
the superiority of first degree in remuneration and
placements. The Federal Government deserves to be
highly commended for this bold and drastic decision
which is a quality addition to the list of the
dividends of democracy.

While still relishing in the euphoria of the
development, what have you to say of the threat by the
leadership of the Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics
(ASUP) to embark on strike?

I shall not say that I have not heard about this
threat by ASUP. Honestly, it beats my imagination to
hear that members of ASUP can even contemplate on such
an idea, especially people who should be stakeholders
in the polytechnic system. It’s unimaginable. It is a
fact that ASUP produces finished products that were
roundly discriminated against, possibly rejected by
the society for 30 years. The current Federal
Government then decided to address the matter with
finality and in favour of ASUP and polytechnic
products and instead of congratulating President
Obasanjo and his team, ASUP preferred to threaten a
strike action. Something is really wrong somewhere.

What advice do you have for ASUP in this direction?
If I had my way, I would have preferred that ASUP
leadership shelves the planned strike. If they do not
heed to this advice, the Union’s members would be the
worse for it. NATE will frown at any attempt by
anybody or group of persons to truncate this good
gesture from the Federal Government.

How do you see the reforms of the Federal Government,
especially in the education sector?
We are united with the Federal Government on the
on-going reforms. I must say  that there would be
disruption of academic activities in the nation’s
polytechnics if ASUP goes ahead with their threat to
go on industrial action. NATE is already planning its
own antidote.

What will NATE do if ASUP goes ahead with the strike?
It will readily call up its members to go to the
classrooms and teach those coming behind us. We shall
call out all HND holders in Nigeria, no matter their
discipline, to come and lecture the young lads in
school. We shall equally call out all those who are
sympathetic to this educational racism and
segregation, to assist in making the new policy to
work. NATE is very prepared to do legitimate battle
with anybody or group that willingly wants to destroy
our new found educational freedom. NATE does not see
any rationale for planning to go on strike. I cannot
understand why or how ASUP will be releasing products
from their production lines that are discriminated
against in the labour market and somebody comes to
remove the discrimination and ASUP leadership plans
industrial action. It is senseless.

The Federal Executive Council may have approved the
new policy but the feeling is that approvals have
never been equivalent to laws. What are your views?
This is the fear being expressed by concerned citizens
of this country. We sincerely plead with the Federal
Government to urgently back the reforms by law. This
has been the fear expressed by many that the legal
documents have not been prepared or signed into law. I
have no iota of doubt that the present administration
cannot institute its reform programmes without
necessarily legalising them. What is now left to be
done, as far as the engineering profession is
concerned is that the Council of Registered Engineers
of Nigeria (COREN) Act should undergo an urgent review
with a view to amending it to reflect this new Federal
Government policy.




Page 42 of vanguard news paper Posted to the Web: Wednesday, April 11, 2007




N .I. T. E.

Nigerian Institute Of Technologists in Engineering

  http://www.geocities.com/technologist_engr/principalpage.html

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Nigerian love buying and selling . So we shall buy even water from oversea abi