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I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity - Religion (66) - Nairaland

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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by hoopernikao: 3:12pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


But you will be surprised to know that Christian's, especially hyper-Grace Christian's believe nothing is wrong except you're convicted by the spirit. Meaning a christian lady can continue bleeping another woman's husband as long as she doesn't see anything wrong in it.

She is no longer bound by laws but by the leading of the spirit.

That's why most business owners trust muslims more than Christian's.

There is no Christian who believes this bro. There is none.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 3:17pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


There you go again making assumptions.
Unbelievers don't sack believers because of their personal choices or beliefs. It is believers that can't stand unbelievers

By the way, one resigned because he was just too lazy to meet his targets and he could not take the heat.
He also difficult to work with and ibsurbodinate to the superiors. Ephesuans 6:5-8, 1 Peter 2:18-19

The other was sacked due to conflict of interest. She was running a business on the side that conflicted with the organisation. Worse still, her job was to report those who broke organisation rules.

My friend, you can go on and on pointing out what nobody can verify but the general populace can testify to the fact that JWs are the best when it comes to dedicated workers.
By the way, do you even know that it's against the rules of JWs to protest against any constituted Organization?

So how do you now verify what you're saying if they must be loyal to the company that employ them?
The only reason to say "NO" is if the company tends to do what will affect the conscience of a JW.

However i can see the way you swiftly sweep the other verifiable events under the carpet! cheesy

Buhari~Ìdíàgbon government sacked JWs and drove their children out of school for National anthem and pledge! smiley
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Janosky: 3:19pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


But you will be surprised to know that Christian's, especially hyper-Grace Christian's believe nothing is wrong except you're convicted by the spirit. Meaning a christian lady can continue bleeping another woman's husband as long as she doesn't see anything wrong in it.

She is no longer bound by laws but by the leading of the spirit.


That's why most business owners trust muslims more than Christian's.
Hyper grace RUBBISH !

... The leading of demonic spirits is NOT God's Holy spirit.

1 Like

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 3:40pm On Jun 20, 2020
hoopernikao:


There is no Christian who believes this bro. There is none.

Don't doubt whatever anybody say when it comes to deception, Satan can fabricate anything and called it Church. 2Corinthians 11:14-15
Certainly you'll find people who loves such lifestyles going there for worship all in the name of Jesus as they just want to be associated with that name! Matthew 7:21-23
That's why it's compulsory to ascertain which of the groups claiming Christians are truly practicing Christianity in the right sense?

Myer kept portraying Islam as if there is anything worthwhile to write home about that Religion, whereas 99% of Terrorist acts on this planet today are carried out by persons claiming Muslims! undecided
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 3:49pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


Don't doubt whatever anybody say when it comes to deception, Satan can fabricate anything and called it Church. 2Corinthians 11:14-15
Certainly you'll find people who loves such lifestyles going there for worship all in the name of Jesus as they just want to be associated with that name! Matthew 7:21-23
That's why it's compulsory to ascertain which of the groups claiming Christians are truly practicing Christianity in the right sense?

Myer kept portraying Islam as if there is anything worthwhile to write home about that Religion, whereas 99% of Terrorist acts on this planet today are carried out by persons claiming Muslims! undecided

No doubt Myer is an atheist underG, so he is trying to make people see that the world's worst religionists are better than Bible believers.
I am also a former Muslim and i can tell anyone that Islam has nothing to offer apart from violence and hatred!
That's why he feels really bitter anytime you try to single Jehovah's Witnesses as different from others,as that's jeopardizing all his efforts to cover the light of truth! smiley smiley smiley

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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 3:52pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


Don't doubt whatever anybody say when it comes to deception, Satan can fabricate anything and called it Church. 2Corinthians 11:14-15
Certainly you'll find people who loves such lifestyles going there for worship all in the name of Jesus as they just want to be associated with that name! Matthew 7:21-23
That's why it's compulsory to ascertain which of the groups claiming Christians are truly practicing Christianity in the right sense?

Myer kept portraying Islam as if there is anything worthwhile to write home about that Religion, whereas 99% of Terrorist acts on this planet today are carried out by persons claiming Muslims! undecided

For hoopernikao to even claim it is not true only shows his myopia.
Like I said earlier, I was an evangelist and a teacher and this gave me much exposure across denominations.
There is so much division in Christianity and all have biblical references to justify their doctrines.

Why it may seem I esteem muslims more than Christians;

They are more unified in their belief and religion.
They are even willing to die for their religion unlike Christian's of our time.
It seems God has blessed Muslims more.
Muslims are ruling Nigeria.
Majority of Christians prayed against Buhari's second term but still Buhari won.
The brotherly love that is preached by the bible is mostly practised by Muslims.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 3:53pm On Jun 20, 2020
Janosky:

Hyper grace RUBBISH !

... The leading of demonic spirits is NOT God's Holy spirit.

It does happens brother, that's why all of them wants to be rebellious.
When they hear the name "Governing Body" they're pained to the marrow because that's the one and only body organizing what's worth commending! smiley
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 3:54pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


For hoopernikao to even claim it is not true only shows his myopia.
Like I said earlier, I was an evangelist and a teacher and this gave me much exposure across denominations.
There is so much division in Christianity and all have biblical references to justify their doctrines.

Why it may seem I esteem muslims more than Christians;

They are more unified in their belief and religion.
They are even willing to die for their religion unlike Christian's of our time.
It seems God has blessed Muslims more.
Muslims are ruling Nigeria.
Majority of Christians prayed against Buhari's second term but still Buhari won.
The brotherly love that is preached by the bible is mostly practised by Muslims.
When you don talk finish, I dey wait for you for the other thread undecided
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 3:57pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


For hoopernikao to even claim it is not true only shows his myopia.
Like I said earlier, I was an evangelist and a teacher and this gave me much exposure across denominations.
There is so much division in Christianity and all have biblical references to justify their doctrines.

Why it may seem I esteem muslims more than Christians;

They are more unified in their belief and religion.
They are even willing to die for their religion unlike Christian's of our time.
It seems God has blessed Muslims more.
Muslims are ruling Nigeria.
Majority of Christians prayed against Buhari's second term but still Buhari won.
The brotherly love that is preached by the bible is mostly practised by Muslims.

By their FRUIT you will know them~Jesus of Nazareth

Only Jehovah's Witnesses are the true Christians, so don't expect unity outside God's Organization!

And as for the Muslims, they're only interested in forcing their credulity on others, that's why the real Muslims among them are killing people who will not bow to their Allah calling such ones INFIDELS! wink

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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 3:59pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


By their FRUIT you will know them~Jesus of Nazareth

Only Jehovah's Witnesses are the true Christians, so don't expect unity outside God's Organization!

And as for the Muslims, they're only interested in forcing their credulity on others, that's why the real Muslims among them are killing people who will not bow to their Allah calling such ones INFIDELS! wink
Facts undecided

1 Like

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 4:01pm On Jun 20, 2020
TATIME:


No doubt Myer is an atheist underG, so he is trying to make people see that the world's worst religionists are better than Bible believers.
I am also a former Muslim and i can tell anyone that Islam has nothing to offer apart from violence and hatred!
That's why he feels really bitter anytime you try to single Jehovah's Witnesses as different from others,as that's jeopardizing all his efforts to cover the light of truth! smiley smiley smiley

I said it before but nobody believed me, when i discuss with anyone within just few minutes, i can tell where such a person truly belongs.

He is just trying to silence the truth by racing the flag of falsehood. So if he now finds out that JWs are separating themselves from where he feels like grouping them he becomes really aggrieved! smiley

Iraq and Iran are Muslim countries, they're perpetual enemies always killing one another like rats! wink
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 4:21pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


For hoopernikao to even claim it is not true only shows his myopia.
Like I said earlier, I was an evangelist and a teacher and this gave me much exposure across denominations.
There is so much division in Christianity and all have biblical references to justify their doctrines.

Why it may seem I esteem muslims more than Christians;

They are more unified in their belief and religion.
They are even willing to die for their religion unlike Christian's of our time.
It seems God has blessed Muslims more.
Muslims are ruling Nigeria.
Majority of Christians prayed against Buhari's second term but still Buhari won.
The brotherly love that is preached by the bible is mostly practised by Muslims.
If I continue saying you know nothing it would look like an insult to you undecided
I hope you know that like Christendom, Islam has different sects and different beliefs undecided undecided
So how are they now united in belief?
Only Jehovah's Witnesses are united when it comes to anything regarding belief in God's word, the Bible. Because we don't promote sects or divisions, which is listed among the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:20) undecided
We reject anybody trying to promote a sect in our midst (Titus 3:10-11) smiley

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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 4:58pm On Jun 20, 2020
DappaD:

If I continue saying you know nothing it would look like an insult to you undecided
I hope you know that like Christendom, Islam has different sects and different beliefs undecided undecided
So how are they now united in belief?
Only Jehovah's Witnesses are united when it comes to anything regarding belief in God's word, the Bible. Because we don't promote sects or divisions, which is listed among the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:20) undecided
We reject anybody trying to promote a sect in our midst (Titus 3:10-11) smiley

He wants to preach Islam to me, the Religion i knew much more than my teeth! cheesy

I saw the light amongst JWs from afar before i began coming closer to see if it's real.

It's when i began studying the Bible that i later discovered God has just one single Organization globally.
Satan only fabricated the rest to look like Original! cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 5:04pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


He wants to preach Islam to me, the Religion i knew much more than my teeth! cheesy

I saw the light amongst JWs from afar before i began coming closer to see if it's real.

It's when i began studying the Bible that i later discovered God has just one single Organization globally.
Satan only fabricated the rest to look like Original! cheesy
True undecided
This idea of multiplicity of religions is an absurd one sha
A mad man can just wake up one morning and say “God called me” , before you know he has built church and members will started addressing him as a “man of God” undecided
That's why most people are still in confusion! cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by GRIMMJOE(m): 5:10pm On Jun 20, 2020
Rozz:
ntor
That thick àss and firm breast is what's making you fly, in 5 - 10 years you'll be out of the market, an old midnight paper, if you like get your priority in life straight, chase your illusion or regret wasting you youth.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 5:11pm On Jun 20, 2020
DappaD:

If I continue saying you know nothing it would look like an insult to you undecided
I hope you know that like Christendom, Islam has different sects and different beliefs undecided undecided
So how are they now united in belief?
Only Jehovah's Witnesses are united when it comes to anything regarding belief in God's word, the Bible. Because we don't promote sects or divisions, which is listed among the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:20) undecided
We reject anybody trying to promote a sect in our midst (Titus 3:10-11) smiley

Whether you like it or not, you're just another denomination out of the thousands of denominations under the same religion of Christianity.

Islam on the other hand has just 2 denominations- the Shites and the Sunni.

2 Likes

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by GRIMMJOE(m): 5:12pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


But you will be surprised to know that Christian's, especially hyper-Grace Christian's believe nothing is wrong except you're convicted by the spirit. Meaning a christian lady can continue bleeping another woman's husband as long as she doesn't see anything wrong in it.

She is no longer bound by laws but by the leading of the spirit.

That's why most business owners trust muslims more than Christian's.
Who is deceiving who.

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 5:17pm On Jun 20, 2020
GRIMMJOE:
Who is deceiving who.

The charade is ridiculous.

Honestly I'm ashamed I was once a victim of the deception. cheesy grin

1 Like

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 5:17pm On Jun 20, 2020
DappaD:

True undecided
This idea of multiplicity of religions is an absurd one sha
A mad man can just wake up one morning and say “God called me” , before you know he has built church and members will started addressing him as a “man of God” undecided
That's why most people are still in confusion! cheesy

The other thread is a complete waste of time and effort!

They're trying to fill a basket with water, instead of first asking
"How do we all benefit from the teaching of Christ?"

Each is trying to defend the falsehood handed over to them by their misinformed churchgoer pastors!

If God is one and Jesus (the model God presented to humans) is one, then how do you justify different forms of worship with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of the same Jesus? cheesy

So Myer will continue to dribble them with his atheistic mindset and lastly they'll start arguing, abusing, insulting and cursing one another! cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 5:18pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


Whether you like it or not, you're just another denomination out of the thousands of denominations under the same religion of Christianity.

Islam on the other hand has just 2 denominations- the Shites and the Sunni.
Myer wise up for once in your life nau! undecided
That I claim to be president of Nigeria, does that make me the president of Nigeria? undecided undecided
As you've been told earlier, there is only ONE true Christian organization in the world today, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
The rest of the so-called denominations can keep claiming what they're not, nobody's stopping them undecided but the truth remains. smiley
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 5:19pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


The other thread is a complete waste of time and effort!

They're trying to fill a basket with water, instead of first asking
"How do we all benefit from the teaching of Christ?"

Each is trying to defend the falsehood handed over to them by their misinformed churchgoer pastors!

If God is one and Jesus (the model God presented to humans) is one, then how do you justify different forms of worship with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of the same Jesus? cheesy

So Myer will continue to dribble them with his atheistic mindset and lastly they'll start arguing, abusing, insulting and cursing one another! cheesy
I've unfollowed the thread already
Myer is even worse than grimmjoe
He doesn't know his left from his right undecided
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 5:21pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


The charade is ridiculous.

Honestly I'm ashamed I was once a victim of the deception. cheesy grin

Mind you this doesn't happen amongst the true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) cheesy

Yet if i tell you there is just one single Christian group approved by God, you'll start arguing, please which one you dey! cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 5:21pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


The other thread is a complete waste of time and effort!

They're trying to fill a basket with water, instead of first asking
"How do we all benefit from the teaching of Christ?"

Each is trying to defend the falsehood handed over to them by their misinformed churchgoer pastors!

If God is one and Jesus (the model God presented to humans) is one, then how do you justify different forms of worship with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of the same Jesus? cheesy

So Myer will continue to dribble them with his atheistic mindset and lastly they'll start arguing, abusing, insulting and cursing one another! cheesy

How you continue to jump into conclusion only shows how dramatic and insecure your relationship life is.

How did you conclude I'm an atheist just because I say I don't believe the bible? Or did the Holyspirit reveal it to you through discernment? cheesy cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by GRIMMJOE(m): 5:22pm On Jun 20, 2020
hoopernikao:


You aren't answering any thing.

You are only avoiding questions.

If you say everybody knows what is right, the question I have been asking you since is that HOW DOES A MAN KNOW WITH INFLUENCE. How do you know evil if nothing influenced that decision. How do you know love? Aren't they from what you have received as influence?

You have accepted this fact earlier that we are all product of influence, now tell me what influences your decision. This is all I need to know.
Hope this is clear enough.

Influence Christianity = love, apply rational thinking, a God can't fail to achieve his aim.

Influence Islam = peace, apply rational thinking, decision, a God can't fail to achieve his aim.

It's the decision that determine if your a free thinker, or you're influence.

I'm still here.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 5:25pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:


Mind you this doesn't happen amongst the true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) cheesy

Yet if i tell you there is just one single Christian group approved by God, you'll start arguing, please which one you dey! cheesy

How can I believe you when other denominations lay the same claim?
Show me your fruits and I will believe.

Do you have the power to heal the sick, take up serpents and drink poison unhurt? Mark 16:17?

Do you manifest the Fruit of the spirit? Galatians 5:22-23

Do you manifest the gifts of the spirit? 1 Corinthians 12:1-11?
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 5:26pm On Jun 20, 2020
DappaD:

I've unfollowed the thread already
Myer is even worse than grimmjoe
He doesn't know his left from his right undecided
How do you expect someone who despises the truth to know anything that's of real benefits?
The first time i encountered Myer was on a thread where they were arguing about speaking in tongues.
This same Myer keep telling them that the idea doesn't work, yet when i said it's no more part of what Christians are expected to be doing right now, Myer turned against me as if i'm the only one commenting on the thread! cheesy
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 5:27pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:

How do you expect someone who despises the truth to know anything that's of real benefits?
The first time i encountered Myer was on a thread where they were arguing about speaking in tongues.
This same Myer keep telling them that the idea doesn't work, yet when i said it's no more part of what Christians are expected to be doing right now, Myer turned against me as if i'm the only one commenting on the thread! cheesy
grin grin grin
I said it that he doesn't know his left from his right nah cheesy
At least we know grimmjoe to be an atheist, this one no even get where him dey undecided
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by GRIMMJOE(m): 5:29pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


Whether you like it or not, you're just another denomination out of the thousands of denominations under the same religion of Christianity.

Islam on the other hand has just 2 denominations- the Shites and the Sunni.
Their domination is more legit, others are illusion, I see other domination saying the same thing.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by GRIMMJOE(m): 5:32pm On Jun 20, 2020
DappaD:

Myer wise up for once in your life nau! undecided
That I claim to be president of Nigeria, does that make me the president of Nigeria? undecided undecided
As you've been told earlier, there is only ONE true Christian organization in the world today, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
The rest of the so-called denominations can keep claiming what they're not, nobody's stopping them undecided but the truth remains. smiley
This was why I asked you of the intent of religion, in by Muslim intent you're an infidel, it is unbelievers like you that is making this peace impossible.
Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by DappaD: 5:34pm On Jun 20, 2020
GRIMMJOE:
This was why I asked you of the intent of religion, in by Muslim intent you're an infidel, as is unbelievers like you that is making this peace impossible.
That discussion is between you and hoopernikao undecided
Free me oo abeg grin

2 Likes

Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Nobody: 5:45pm On Jun 20, 2020
Myer:


How can I believe you when other denominations lay the same claim?
Show me your fruits and I will believe.
If you want to know something you must calm down first, otherwise you will continue to beat about the bush with no benefit. How many church claims to be the one and only apart from Jehovah's Witnesses? Kumuyi, Adeboye, Olukoya, TB Joshua, Oyedepo, Oyakilome and others all agreed that they're all worshiping the same God with the exception of JWs alone who keeps saying it and exhibiting it that their God differs! cheesy

Do you have the power to heal the sick, take up serpents and drink poison unhurt? Mark 16:17?
I have treated this topic with you several times that Jesus only meant that Joel's prophesy {Joel 2:28} will be fulfilled after his departure {Act 2:16-18} and Apostle Paul made it clear that it's just for a short time! 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Do you manifest the Fruit of the spirit? Galatians 5:22-23
I have told you that the nine qualities of God's holy spirit can't be found complete in any human apart from Jesus for now but in the Organization that belongs to God all these qualities will manifest because they're the body of Christ {Ephesians 4:12} it's after the 1,000 years reign of Christ that all those exercising faith in Jesus will be clean from head to toe! Revelations 20:5

Do you manifest the gifts of the spirit? 1 Corinthians 12:1-11?

The GIFTS of God's holy spirit will not last amongst the Christians according to Apostle Paul {1Corinthians 13:8-10} that's why many of them were never cured with miraculous works as you're expecting {1Timothy 5:23} but the love amongst God's people will remain as the sign to help honest hearted persons know the group that belongs to Christ! John 13:34-35 compare to 1Corinthians 13:13

God bless you! smiley

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Re: I'm Beginning To Reason With Jehovah Witness On Their Stand Concerning Trinity by Myer(m): 5:58pm On Jun 20, 2020
Maximus69:

If you want to know something you must calm down first, otherwise you will continue to beat about the bush with no benefit. How many church claims to be the one and only apart from Jehovah's Witnesses? Kumuyi, Adeboye, Olukoya, TB Joshua, Oyedepo, Oyakilome and others all agreed that they're all worshiping the same God with the exception of JWs alone who keeps saying it and exhibiting it that their God differs! cheesy


I have treated this topic with you several times that Jesus only meant that Joel's prophesy {Joel 2:28} will be fulfilled after his departure {Act 2:16-18} and Apostle Paul made it clear that it's just for a short time! 1Corinthians 13:8-10


I have told you that the nine qualities of God's holy spirit can't be found complete in any human apart from Jesus for now but in the Organization that belongs to God all these qualities will manifest because they're the body of Christ {Ephesians 4:12} it's after the 1,000 years reign of Christ that all those exercising faith in Jesus will be clean from head to toe! Revelations 20:5



The GIFTS of God's holy spirit will not last amongst the Christians according to Apostle Paul {1Corinthians 13:8-10} that's why many of them were never cured with miraculous works as you're expecting {1Timothy 5:23} but the love amongst God's people will remain as the sign to help honest hearted persons know the group that belongs to Christ! John 13:34-35 compare to 1Corinthians 13:13

God bless you! smiley

Well Paul never says it's for a short time. Your leaders said that.
As long as Faith and Hope still exist so should the spiritual gifts still exist because Faith also a spiritual gift 1 Cor 12:9.

What he simply pointed at is that Love is timeless. He never said spiritual gifts were for a short time. Neither did any other apostle mention such.

Your leaders simply saw their powerlessness and capitalised on 1 Cor 13:8 to defend their failure as Christians.

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