Myer:


My mighty man in scripture. I greet you too bro.

I took my time to digest your writ which I must say you nearly had me convinced.

True, these events and their oral tales existed with the Israelites way before Moses.
He simply as you posited helped document, expound and interprete them from a place of random events to polarity, pointing the israelites to Gods will and plan for them.
Great submission.

But this still doesn't answer my more cogent question concerning the private conversations and supposed quotations between God and the characters (Fathers of faith if you will).

Do you know that even Moses' last the conversation with God on the mountain that he should die was recorded, I wish we could explain who was there to hear such private last moment conversation. Bear in mind that Moses' body was never found by the Israelites.

I stated earlier some other instance such as the conversation between Jesus and the Samaritan woman by the well. Don't forget that the scripture clearly stated that Jesus never mentioned this conversation with any of his disciples, neither did they ask him.

Some many such events should make you ask questions, don't you think?

Thanks for taking time to read.

Sure question should be asked. That's what bible study is for. To investigate well.


Now, following my earlier thought pattern, we can fully infer that oral tradition played an important role on the text of the Bible. I try focusing on Moses first because that's what set the pace for others.

There are internal evidence in the Bible that showed Moses was taught and raised to know the events, the stories about God and his environment. I have posited that in my earlier comment, he as a prophet of God was now able to use them all, reading and reasoning them together to explain God's thoughts by the Spirit inspiration.

You will see something similar in Luke 24

Luke 24:44-46
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Notice he taught them from all the scriptures, yet they can't reason it together to understand the meaning. They read, heard and interpret the stories in silos.

In vs 45, their understanding were opened to now understand.

The word that they might understand is the Greek word suniemi. It is used for reasoning things together to know the essence.

It's like how you can reason together all courses (100L - 400L) you took in university and understand the reasons and how they are connected together. You can now see the bigger picture.

That's what Jesus did to them.

So what Moses did is to give a suniemi of those events.

---

Now to the privacy.
I will take Genesis as a case study.

You will observed that detailed writing of private communication progressed as the books (Genesis) progressed.

Aside the Adam and Abel stories, you hardly find details of others until Genesis 6,Noah. Even at that details were exempted. Just clues as what any story teller can narrate.

For example, what you will see mostly are instructions given and how they acted on it. No details about personal life's.

God's instruction to Adam, to Eve, to Cain, Enoch were only captured and no other details. Aside the facts that those details aren't necessary, it is obvious the author only have limited information about their daily living. But the live style of each of them were summarized to capture the main essence through God's inspiration to the author.

A key example
Observe Abraham calling and compare to Moses calling.

When Abraham was called, we have no detail, we only have God's instruction to him and he followed. Few details developed later, but as such is also within instructions of events to happen.

Compare this to Moses at the burning bush. Details were not only given, the writer artistry and event coloration were portrayed in that single events. Key details were observed. Exodus 3 gives you a detailed narratives. Even upto Moses unspoken thoughts. Why? Because it was a first hand experience.

We can go on and on looking at other stories and events.

Another key details you will observe also is the fact that, counting or keeping days or dates was quite silent in early Genesis events. But from Moses, days and weeks and activities in them started having details. Hence that's beyond stories but their true experience.

---

Lastly, on documentation about Moses death.

You must know from history that, firstly, a follower in the ancient world is allowed to complete his master's work and still name it after his master. This is a documented fact even some still hold this practice today.

Hence, it is obvious that the later part of Moses writings were documented by his disciples, likely Joshua who had much details and access to Moses privacy, notes, jotting and secrets. Hence it should not be strange to see him able to document some private information about him.

In all, a key element in all the writings is the fact that God's spirit upon them gave them the right understanding, access and coordination to be able to suniemi, a reading and understanding together, put things down and forsee God's bigger picture ahead of time even in their ancient dispositions.

Myer:
[url][/url]One of the major challenges Istill can't seem to understand is how the bible came about.

If you read through Genesis to Deuteronomy, you'll realise that some of the events were private and no one else was there, and certainly not even a writer.
This books were supposedly written by Moses who was born millennia after.
Moses, the supposed writer even in Deuteronomy 34 wrote about his own death.

How also did he know what conversations took place between God and Adam, Between Eve and the serpeant? Between Jacob and the Angel when he wrestled with God, Abraham and Isaac, Isaac and his sons, Jacob and his sons, Etc

In the new testament, how did the writers of the Synoptic gospels (Matthew to John) get the conversations Jesus had alone in their absence? Such as the conversation between him and the Samaritan woman by the well, Jesus and God at Gethsemane, etc.
How did the writer even have the conversations he had with them when none of them was a writer and most of them were illiterates?

Bros, long time. Trust you are good.

As per question. The closest answer is the fact that the were orally transmitted.

A typical Jew preserve their history via oral teaching to their followers and children. You will see this usually emphasized by God himself to his people (to teach their children this events).

Observe that Abraham did this to Isaac, Isaac to Jacob. They taught God's story and its consciousness to the next generations. Joseph prophecy about his bone was as a result of his him being taught about God's salvation for his people. Hence he believed and speak.

So, obviously they were taught and passed down through generation. This is the same thing you will find in African history. Our culture and history were preserved in stories, folklore and songs. We hardly have them written.


Moses writing is a central emblem to all that God spoke and communicated over those generations because it was him that was able to first document what was said over centuries orally to the Jews. He was able to tell God's story using their folklore, events, history and stories passed down through oral teaching.

Observe that Moses even before God appeared to him, already had knowledge of God, because he must have been taught by his mother. He knew God will send a deliverer, a savior and save his people. Those information were passed down through their generation and preserved their believes.

This is what God told Moses at the burning bush.

I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB.

Observe that Moses understood that immediately and never argued that who are those people or names. He was already taught about them. He was raised in such age of oral transmission of information.

Acts 6-7, Exo 1 should help here.

So, simply put, Moses was able to write about those stories because they weren't strange stories, they existed within their generation and culture. Each Jew was raised to know God.

Yet in all.
we must always have behind our mind that even though those information were received orally, Moses documentation is beyond just writing the stories down.

He is an expounder, Explainer, interpreter of God's word. He was able to put all these stories together and situate God's plan through all generations within the stories.

That's the beauty of his writings. A true prophet of God.

PS
If you follow this line of thought, you will then know why I said (in formal thread, our last discussion) that the chronological (dateline) sequence of generations or events in Bible as aligning to world dateline isn't as important as the theology the Bible presented.

Because if they are orally transmitted, dateline won't be a focus of the speakers but the essence, the wisdom, the truth that is being transmitted.

Deliveryman44:
I used to be church going until I repented. This doesn't stop me from the belief in God but my not going to church is simply because many people worship going to church, or practice church going just to feel among. It's already been 3 years since I stopped and my experience so far is freedom from being called or described as a church jamboree

.

Do you do things because of what you will be called or you do things because that is what is right to do or instructed by the same God you believe in?

Well, there is also freedom in doing wrong.

How do you lose what you never had and why would you want to have again what you never lost.

Elliotwealth1:
Long story sir
But i came across a message online watched it and just got convicted and stuff
Then the bible became interesting, my lost for women and love for money died, masturbation appetite died and lots more
But truth be told lots of women suddenly wanted to have sex with me and it came to my notice that they were all sent to make me fall back to sin.
I stopped my illegitimate ways of making money.
(I'm 22+ ,no skills)
Currently learning one.
Christianity is fun tho, but the fact I've been praying no response from God.
You should understand my feelings, it feels bad tho.
Hardly feed and stuff but I try to find a way, I literally turned back to square one and no human will be happy in my condition.
I wonder why God choose to be silent tho.
I basically cut off from many of my friends but somehow the devil keeps bringing them into my life.

Please sir tell me, how does God operates?

I mean His will, how can i know it?
My purpose and more, I have done so many reasearch still no result.

Tell me about urs please
How did u Start your walk with Christ?
How often do you hear the voice of God
Please sir I'm wiling to listen cuz it will help.

.

Which location are you Bro.

Elliotwealth1:
Why is the Gospel in Nigeria today all about prosperity?
Back then Jesus took his disciples and tutored them, but today you hardly see that in church.
I gave my life to Christ, no one to teach me about the kingdom, about prayer, about fasting and lots more.
They all claim they are too busy.
Please someone answer me positively

Your question assumed you have been to all churches in Nigeria and have examined all preacher of the gospel in Nigeria. I doubt your premise is correct. I can assure you there are more churches that focus on God's will on earth a d they are around you.

There are more preaching the gospel than prosperity. You may need to get around the right folks to know that.

Find this yourself.
Avoid using what you complain about to decide the church you grow with. For example choosing a chur h because of its affluence and natural prosperity already defeated your aim. Choosing a church because it's around you also is a defeat. You must find the right balance which must be around

35% teaching of God's word with a focus on Christ not man
30% prayer
30% evangelism
5% other important things

This should be a good mix.

AntiChristian:


Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’? John 10:34



It seems you are claiming ignorant of Hebrew language. YAHWEH is what is used in that Deuteronomy verse for Lord and is never used. for humans like Elohim, Theos, and their other derivatives which can be used for a VIP or Political authority.

This is why in your Bible only Yahweh is translated as LORD! Others are usually given Lord, God or god depnding on context and who is translating!



1a. Psalm 82:1 says, “ God (Elohim) presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods (Elohim) .”
Here gods are magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Remember no Capital G or small g in Hebrew! Same Elohim is God and gods!

1b. Another example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. Was Moses a God too?

1c. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28.

2. My concept of God is entirely different from the Christian concept of God!

First reread what I posted carefully and rewrite all you wrote.

The question here is MY GOD not a god or gods. My God means my own God. The one I worship. Bible never said there aren't lesser god. What we are looking at is Hebrew calling any of this MY GOD.

So go back and present a plan where a Hebrew call another person or thing, his God without referring to almighty God.

That is the context.

sonmvayina:


Lol....
That is just the words of the writter....

You haven't answered me.

Can we go by same logic that all you quoted before were just the writer's word and should not be taken seriously?

So answer.
There is a remote button God used in Gen 6 that went haywire. Did he lose the control device or the infrared connection got blurred in the sins of men.

If you can't provide answer to that, then after all. He doesnt control all things. We can then start examining your texts to see that.

AntiChristian:


Forget those ambiguous verses you quoted before!

To Timothy in John 20:28

1. why do you say he was called Lord and God and not lord and god (there's no differentiation in Greek?

2. The word translated to Lord is "Kyrios" which can also mean master. The word for "God" is "Theos" which is also used as follows:

Acts 12: 21-22: For the Roman Governor

21On the appointed day, Herod donned his royal robes, sat on his throne, and addressed the people. 22And they began to shout, “This is the voice of a god, not a man!”

2 Cor. 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers,

So we see the same God translated as god elsewhere. The Bible translators sure are good!

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’? John 10:34

Why gods here and God there?

Can you point to any place in the Bible where an Hebrew or Jewish call a man or a thing "MY God" aside the almighty God.

If you understand Hebrew believe system and culture, you won't write all you wrote above.

These are problems and errors you face when you want to isolate a speaker's or writer's words from his environment, culture and language system.

A typical Hebrew man has ONLY ONE GOD. and he will never refer to any other thing or person as God.

Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE Lord:

So, if Thomas called him My God.

1. Show me an evidence of an Hebrew referring to another God aside one he believes to be almighty God.

2. Tell me instance by which even you, an African man has called a man or thing YOUR GOD, aside the one God you claim to worship.

sonmvayina:

What?.
You thought there was something God created that he can't control.? Nah

Which of the control button was pressed by this God in Gen 6 that made him grieve Sir since he controls all things. Or he controls things so that he can be sad arimes. Right?

Singlenhappy:
you are confused!

Thank you for your clarity.

plaetton:

I'm not sure what you mean or what you're asking.
But if you must learn from my perspective, then listen.

The authors of your scriptures, just like the authors of all ancient scriptures wrote them with their own limited understanding of the universe and how it works. They wrote with their own worldviews, superstitions and prejudices for their very narrow audience ( people who shared the same superstitions and myths). Their own truths, based on their own limited knowledge and understanding.
Then, the translators came with own worldviews, prejudices and Ecclesiastical and political Agenda.
Then the editors and redactors later came, pretending to be correctors, to add, subtract, substitute, obscure and obfuscate certain parts of scriptures thar were either embarrassing, contradictory or simply unpopular in their own eras.
As long as the sheeple continue to believe that scriptures are of divine provenance, the smart guys will continue to edit, re-translate and re-transliterate to fit their goals.

Your submission earlier wasn't refering to author but translators. You specifically referred to KJV mistake as contradiction in Bible. Is that how to read authors? Using translator words to judge author's intent? You have original text yet you are troubled about what translator did. What you should do is to learn better and understand authors intent before critiquing.

Correct that first before you go into another mistake.

AntiChristian:
When Jesus was sending out his disciples: Matthew 10:5-7
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near....

Here Jesus specifically told them to go to the lost sheep of Israel not to the Gentiles nor to the Samaritans! In summary the world of Jesus is Israel!

And a Canaanite woman who of course Jesus wasn't sent to save proves the topic of this discuss as follows:

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Now, we see that Jesus was reluctant to even attend to the woman despite knowing that her daughter was demon-possessed!
And Jesus re-emphasized that he was sent only to the Lost sheep of Israel!

There are two burdens on the heart of a dishonest reader/person.

1. He will struggle with the burden of trying to make his lying heart a right, good and caring one, when faced with his loved ones. A "good man" struggling to be good because he has set his heart "abad".

2. He will bear the burden of trying to make false, what is right,what is penned down in black and white and obvious to all, he will need to train his heart to read it wrong.


He carries the burden of a half good and half dishonest heart.

Eventually he can become so corrupt that he neither care again also for those he loves because his heart has found home in lies, deception and self glory.

I will leave you to decide now, the state of your heart.

plaetton:

Lol @ " commited a lot blunders"
You mean there are a lot of blunders in the Bible? For real ?

You mean contradictions.
Yes , of course.
A collection of fables from Bronze Age ought to have a lot of contradictions.
What has been going on for 2000 yrs is that each new era edits the Bible to take out obvious contradictions, and also to insert their own ecclesiastical agenda.

Recently, the current pontiff of Rome told us that we have to start seeing new understandings in old scriptures. In other words, the current understandings if scriptures does not make too much sense in this modern era.
So, from time to time, as has always been the case, new words and new meanings will be substituted for old ones either through re-translation, re-transliteration or plain old deliberate obfuscation.

Are you serious with this (that you when a translation is wrong, implies, a blunder in the original text), or you are just joking?

It's a new year, don't start like this.

Uptownerd:

He is. The Spaghetti Monster is currently holding the earth in the tip of his hands... He is patiently waiting to bring end time and punish all those who didn't believe in him.

Don't be smart by half. Honesty should be a hallmark of a good critics.

You raised an OP, he (MaxInDHouse) gave you the right answer and you know it. Instead of you to say thank you, you prefer to derail your thread by bringing in what is not relevant to your OP.

You owe him a thank you if you have a good heart and honest. But not surprised because your basis of raising the OP is to start argument not for knowing or convincing another to know.

But like I said, cast down your ego and tell him thank you.

It's not easy these days to give time and be correcting persons who are lazy to read, research or ready to even understand things but just to argue.

Appreciate his care tor you and close the thread.

Happy New Year.

triplechoice:
From the above, what then makes the Bible the word of God if what Joshua knew at that time was common knowledge?

Does it not suggest then, that the Bible was not inspired by God but by ordinary men who during that period had limited knowledge of the world they live in? Besides ,science has not found any evidence that the "sun ever stood still" at any point in time or in any part of the world
. If we accept that the event actually happened as narrated, why is the event only recorded in the Bible?
The effect of the "sun standing still" would have been experienced not only by Joshua but also by others very far from his location. Yet we don't have any other sources apart from the Bible or moses referring to this particular incident. Why?

Moses is not the only one in the ancient times to have used existing stories and legends to communicate truth. In Africa, our ancestors did the same. Do you give equal importance to what our ancestors did to that of moses? Why not if they have done the same thing as moses?

You need to separate your issues to have proper response.

For Joshua case. The word of God is not word of God because of scientific discovery. Also note they werent writing to you primarily. They wrote to their immediate audience. And they were to communicate in language the audience understood and can comprehend. Imagine someone speaking of Telsa car in ancient world, you will not only loose your audience, you will loose your acceptance in the society.

Hence the writer of the Bible aren't writing science or history. They wrote theology. If you want to check if the scriptures is truly inspired, you will check his theological claim. That is what is inspired. Then the writer used the culture, language and knowledge around them to communicate.

How does it feel if someone says, why didn't Joshua speak English since the bulk of his audience will likely be English speaker. That would be a round question that needs a square answer. Because such knowledge is not his audience knowledge.

I hope it's clearer.

By the way, you think God's mission is to be revealing moving earth to you? There are better and more pressing issues than that Bro.

Cashsteady:
If a whole nation like isreal can approve same sex marriage.. the nation where everyone thinks Christianity originally came from..



Who are we to believe Christianity is true..




Funny part is most of isrealis are actually athiest..




Another funny thing is that most of athiest countries are actually way developed than the religious countries.. look at China for example like 90% of it's population don't believe in religion and yet it's doing fine.. Nigeria on the other hand is strictly a religious country yet still a shithole..



I'm starting to think our pastor's are nothing but scammers who are just brainwashing gullible Nigerians to secure the bag.

Incoherent logics wrapped in fallacious words.

You have an intent and then try to drive a different narrative into achieving your aim by using false sentiment and poor understanding of issues as your basis.

Nothing stop you from being bold to say your mind than try to use another nation's decision as bias.

Be bold.

Image123:


Lol, on Bible chronology or on some theologians chronology? Are all theologians in agreement? You have a Bible and you study it, which makes you a theologian in your class too. Maybe you should help him or us with this startling chronology so that we can throw away our Bibles on time.

I don't get you well. Or likely the message is not for me. Kindly clarify this

Myer:


Lol his reaction doesnt validate your point. Clearly a theist or misothesis cannot say most of the things he says.

He has chosen to identify as a theist and you should not assume to know him better than what he professes.

It's analogous to me assuming your more of a Jew because you do not believe in the Holyspirit.
Even though I actually have evidence of yours yet I cannot conclude on you.

LoL at "I don't believe in the Holyspirit".

If I start discussion on the holyghost, it's still NL team that will say mine is too much.

If you have read me well always, you will know that I do not only believe in the holyghost, I make practice of his presence, ability, gifts and His work.

Myer:


I get you perfectly and I see your points.

But my question for you is this

You have claimed that the reason why the chronology cannot and should not be the basis for historical and scientific time calculations purpose is becaus the bible is a prophetic book.

However you failed to answer my most cogent question;

Your argument that the biblical chronology should not be used as a basis to date the flood or any other even, is this inspired by the Holyspiit, a Prophet or just you reading online?

God's inspiration doesn't stop us from using our senses. I have answered you and I state it again.

1. I study the Bible with proper mindset of the fact that it is the word of God, that is a theological and prophetic book.

2. I read it with a mindset of considering human history with Bible context and ascertain the events of their times. And also to understand prevalence culture of their time to help me interpret the Bible better. For example I knew from history that Moses wasn't the first to give law. Law existed before him. Infact the Hammurabi code written over 400 years before Moses was almost a duplicate of some part of the ceremonial law in Moses ordinance. Hence it means the people of the Bible were influenced by their environment just as it is TODAY. Yet this doesn't affect the intent of God's inspiration for us.

Words like
Worship
Altar
God
Temple

Were all borrowed language from culture. Yet they were used as element of inspiration of the scriptures.


3. My interpretation as any other person's interpretation of the scriptures must align with development, culture, language, practices and exposure of their time. Hence my argument and interpretation must align with this.

So I don't expect to see for example, Tesla I'm the Bible, or see tractor or see English as original language. That will tell me there is an error somewhere as that will fail the test of history. So, my explanation are guided by these facts.

I expect to see trees, fruits, garden, rivers, mountains etc prevalence on the writing because the culture of their time is agrarian in nature. Hence the reason you see these terms used in explaining God's realities. Hence reading fruits doesn't have to be fruit to eat, it's a usage to explain an intent. And the best words the author can borrow is what they had in their culture. Fruits.


4. Lastly, what I take as inspiration, is that which the Holyspirit is concerns with, and that will not change in my interpretation irrespective fo the history, time, culture and events. That inspiration is the same. History may adjust Bible timeline, science may adjust prevalent secular knowledge of their time but nothing of these will affect the intent of the writing, God's plan, God's inspiration and the work of the Holyspirit on the earth.

This is what forms my theology.
So, in conclusion, I am just a student of the word, learning God's word with the help of His spirit to know more.

HardMirror:
point of correction. The flooding can be ascertained. The chronology of noah to abraham is given in the bible. The chronology of abraham to David is given in the bible, the chronology of David to Jesus is given in the bible. The period of jesus ministry till date can be verified. Even the creation of you need to calm down and learn o.
I want you to do a little work yourself dont be lazy. Jesus to david given in the bible. Find out
David to abraham given in the bible go and work yourself dont be a lazy christian
Noah to abraham given. Go and read ogbeni

Oya go and do that first. Stop being stubborn calm down and learn then u will explain why that data is not reliable but you need to do your research. Dont expect me to spoon feed you.

Same way you obviously dont bother reading links and dont watch videos I post here. It is always obvious from how you talk. You are quick to respond on issues you know nothing about, you dont read, you are not learning shit

Now read this patiently. I have already gave my submission earlier to Myer on this. It will answer your quest and solve the issue you had in your explanation..

Read below.

1. You still make assumptions for me. I haven't said anything about the Bible chronology.

2. We are checking history now not even Bible per say. You can't hide under the Holyspirit claim and fault historical facts. No Holyspirit will give you such knowledge. The inspiration of the Bible never removed the limitation of man in their time, such as their science, their language, their culture. That's the beauty of the scriptures. And evidence that man was used of God to write

Now
The problem we have most times is we are adamant to change our position on history even when things get clearer. But the truth is changing your position and embracing historical facts, ancient culture and knowledge doesn't negate word of God or the work of the holyghost.

Bible is not a historical or scientific book. It's a theological book. That means I don't need to seek for accuracy on the history of events even though it should be interpreted to align with historical evidences. Also it may fail in some scientific facts because it's not a science book and scientific knowledge start developing years after it's written. Hence I should not be afraid to relook at the scriptures to understand better in the light of the evidences at hand.

E. G. Joshua sun stopped, was a knowledge of their days. That's is what the scientist, the atheist of their days will also write. But we have better light now. It will now be wrong for me to be adamant and say such facts are wrong and keep claiming its the sun that stopped instead of the earth. This is where some failed and I mean both theist and atheist.


So, what is the take here.

I am not giving you my opinion I am giving you what we can see when we bring.

1. Historical evidences
2. Scientific evidences
3. Human accounts

Together, and align with Bible timeline to be able to adjust properly the timing of events. Because the writer weren't fixative on accounting for dates or years, or science, they are fixative on explaining God's plan for humanity. And that should be our focus.

NB
History put Mesopotamia as the earliest civilization even before China

https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/ancient-civilization/272856

And like I said. The flood story was in their legend and also in legend of all ancient civilization.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Great_Flood


So it could never have happened during the rise of ancient China as posited by HardMirror. His error is from reading the chronology in the scriptures as if the writer were writing history and have the most accurate tool to keep dates. Keeping dates is more scientific than art.

Bear in mind. Chronology from Adam to Joseph must have been transmitted orally as the writer and audience never met them but were taught from generation to generation. Preserving such dates accurately, will be an herculean task. Yet this doesn't remove a single fact from God's plan, purpose and inspiration for humanity.

LordReed:


I have never said there is no god, I have said your particular conception of a god doesn't exist but that is not the same as saying there is no god. The universe is vaster than our current understanding so I still hold out a possibility that we might find a god.

There is ample evidence for how the earth was formed.

Okay. Clearer now.

That God will surely be found.

HardMirror:
will you keep quite and stop disgracing your self. So you are not away there is chronology in the bible? Na wa for all this half baked Christians here. I could help you with texts and e plain how you relate the chronology given in the bible but why waste my time on you? You guys just come here and start forming what you are not, you dont even know anything in the religion you are defending

Bro. Hope there is no issue?

You aren't communicating like this. And it will affect your learning. You take things too personal the reason I found it hard to take you as an atheist. Anyone who is too emotional to religion discussion and claim to be an atheist is not really one. He is only battling some latent issue.

Myer:


I appreciate your submissions here. I really do.

My question however is, if you will go to this length to gain credence for the bible, why not do the same for other religious books with similar claims?

I mean it's obvious that according to biblical accounts Hardmirror and you have accepted that there are errors in the timing of the flood.

But one of the basic reasons for refuting other religions books is these nconsistencies.

1. HardMirror point was that flooding never existed because China was already civilized by then.

2. My point is, occurrence of the flood can't be ascertain because the flood event likely occur when there is no civilization at all.

It's two different points.

Also as per my submission. Notice i said the Bible is theology not science. Hence, consistency of the scriptures must be measured by its theology, it's prophecies not its history and science. This is where you are seeing inconsistency.

Until you start measuring it with its real intent, you will always see inconsistency. Because humanity will always evolve hence, science changes but theology must be same. Hence the issue with other religion. But as a principle, I don't discuss other religion especially public space.

LordReed:


The scientific evidence is limited in scope so we have limited knowledge about the origins of our universe. We know space time expanded out from a point during the Big Bang event but beyond that we know nothing. This is why I say I don't know.

Okay. So in short, we don't have scientific evidence for now.

But I feel this same option can be adopted to the science of explaining God. I am sure the reason you don't believe in God is because there is no scientific evidence for such.

Hence you outrightly accepted that

"there is no God", not
"I don't know if there is God".

I think applying this same principle.

1. What is the origin of the earth or evidence of its beginning? I don't know because there is no scientific evidence.

2. What is the origin or evidence of God's existence. I don't know because there is no scientific evidence.

I feel this is more tolerant and easily adjustable overtime.

HardMirror:
yes I want to escape. Bye bye. Why should I be wasting my time with someone that does not even read his bible. You are nothing but a poser. What makes you think you can even be discussing bible issues with me when you dont even know how the biblical events are dated. What a joke if you like mention me 1million times na you sabi. I will rather answer more knowledgable Christian's. What nonsense. You think saying I want to run away would force me to keep answering you.

Please Sir. Answer my question. I don't need to be dragging who read Bible pass with you. This isn't necessary. What I need from you is proper discussion. Since you know I haven't read it. Show me where it is. That's all I needed from you. Or are we fighting? �

You want to share knowledge I guess. So answer my questions and let's discuss. Okay?

Myer:


You have a point. But then it's your own opinion.
Like I earlier said, this timing was calculated and validated by Theologians who dedicated their lives to the study of the bible. Some even supposedly though the guidance and under the tutelage of the Holyspirit.

If I may ask, how did you come about this notion that the biblical chronology is wrong and not to be taken seriously?
Was it though a website or did the Holyspirit guide you into this your truth?

1. You still make assumptions for me. I haven't said anything about the Bible chronology.

2. We are checking history now not even Bible per say. You can't hide under the Holyspirit claim and fault historical facts. No Holyspirit will give you such knowledge. The inspiration of the Bible never removed the limitation of man in their time, such as their science, their language, their culture. That's the beauty of the scriptures. And evidence that man was used of God to write

Now
The problem we have most times is we are adamant to change our position on history even when things get clearer. But the truth is changing your position and embracing historical facts, ancient culture and knowledge doesn't negate word of God or the work of the holyghost.

Bible is not a historical or scientific book. It's a theological book. That means I don't need to seek for accuracy on the history of events even though it should be interpreted to align with historical evidences. Also it may fail in some scientific facts because it's not a science book and scientific knowledge start developing years after it's written. Hence I should not be afraid to relook at the scriptures to understand better in the light of the evidences at hand.

E. G. Joshua sun stopped, was a knowledge of their days. That's is what the scientist, the atheist of their days will also write. But we have better light now. It will now be wrong for me to be adamant and say such facts are wrong and keep claiming its the sun that stopped instead of the earth. This is where some failed and I mean both theist and atheist.


So, what is the take here.

I am not giving you my opinion I am giving you what we can see when we bring.

1. Historical evidences
2. Scientific evidences
3. Human accounts

Together, and align with Bible timeline to be able to adjust properly the timing of events. Because the writer weren't fixative on accounting for dates or years, or science, they are fixative on explaining God's plan for humanity. And that should be our focus.

NB
History put Mesopotamia as the earliest civilization even before China

https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/ancient-civilization/272856

And like I said. The flood story was in their legend and also in legend of all ancient civilization.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Great_Flood


So it could never have happened during the rise of ancient China as posited by HardMirror. His error is from reading the chronology in the scriptures as if the writer were writing history and have the most accurate tool to keep dates. Keeping dates is more scientific than art.

Bear in mind. Chronology from Adam to Joseph must have been transmitted orally as the writer and audience never met them but were taught from generation to generation. Preserving such dates accurately, will be an herculean task. Yet this doesn't remove a single fact from God's plan, purpose and inspiration for humanity.

LordReed:


4th option, I don't know.

Good, sincere and honest answer. I guess the OP likely not sure of having sincere persons with this option.

Your answer likewise called for further response.

Why did you choose this option.

Is it because there is no scientific evidence on this yet?

HardMirror:
see stupid questions that are exposing you as ignorant of the bible you carry about. What a pity. Keep asking me

Please answer the stupid QUESTION Sir.

It seems you want to escape from being questioned. You abuse the Christians for doing this but you are doing same now. Don't result to abuse. Answer it Sir.

HardMirror:
no point discussing with you any further. You are just too ignorant. So you dont know how many years from jesus to David, from David to abraham, from Adam to abraham, you dont know how it is calculated and the source of the data from the bible? What a joke. And these are the guys that want us to take them serious as Christians. You dont even read your bible?

You are not serious at all. Be asking me stupid questions dont go and read your bible be expecting me to tell you how we know it is 4000 years from adam to jesus

Please try answer the stupid QUESTION Sir. I agreed its stupid but answer it. I asked you two things

1. Do you mean China is older than the flood story historically.

2. Give me a text of the Bible where you see that the Adam was existing 4000BC.

Don't always result to abuse when you are questioned. It exposes that fact that you have inherent issue with the Bible not just about knowledge but other things best known to you.

Let's discuss if you are sure of what you are saying and have read the Bible well, since you know I don't read it. Teach me by showing me my errors.


I will give you my stand here and then I expect you to answer my question to know how to help your thoughts.


1. Flood story predates China even Mesopotamia as they have it in their legend. Hence your comparison of China civilization to negate the flood story is on false ground.


2. Bible never stated anywhere, that Adam lived 4000BC. Else show me where.

And if you or any researcher is stating that, let us examine it wisely. You are making the same mistake you claimed to run away from. Being brainwashed with information without reasoning it out yourself.


So, please answer the question. It's a discussion don't be tensed always.

HardMirror:
flood story predates china and egypt that has been in existence for for than the 4000bc the bible claims Adam and eve were even in the garden?

Put your comment right. It's not clear.

Are you arguing the flood story to predate China? Let me get you right

And also, give me a text where Bible claimed Adam was in eden by 4000bc.

Kindly state likewise if this is your research and study or what you were taught.

Myer:


Your penchant for stalling is legendary.
You understand very well the chronology he based it on. It's all over the bible.
Theologians who have dedicated their lives to studying the bible agree on it.
You can as well google it.

But if you will be so kind enough to share your own assumption or thoughts as to the timing of the said flood.

Well, I ask questions because I don't like assumptions. And always know this.

1. I also want to be sure not to assume people's thoughts. I want to be sure he is referring to the Bible and not assumptions.

2. I want to be able to reread from the Bible, the very passage or verse or story or events that is being focused on or discussed.

So, I need to know his text.

But on the timing of the flood, I have put it in my latest response to you.

No one can ascertain the timing. If it was taught as a legend in the ancient world of Mesopotamia, which is the cradle of civilization. Then we must be assured that the event, if it occurred, must have been in period when man knows nothing about writings but communicate orally. Hence the timing will always be disputed as the very events itself.

But using the scale of human populating the earth as at the time of the ancient east culture, we can arguably extrapolate that if such event truly happened before their time, not more than 1000 Souls worldwide would have experienced it.

Now ponder on how such events can be accurately preserved till man's civilization. The reason it will be on argument table till ages.