LordReed:


Hey there. Doing good, you?

Very well too.

Mrkumareze:


We re plenty in this group, someone re just hiding, pretending as all is well.

One ll go to church, instead of coming back holier, u ll go home worst.

Hmmm, Bro, can you expatiate on this please.

Ajay7411:
It's been a little over 4 years since I stopped going to church and my life has been going well as I got a lot of freedom and whatnot. As I'm now irreligious, atheism is slowly creeping in and I don't know what to do.

Church wasnt designed to give you your above definition of "well" i guess. Its a mixed up and trap that has led many astray.

But why did you stop church in the first place.

LordReed:


I don't begrudge anyone their desire to believe in a Jewish or any other type of deity. What I will stand against though is bad ideas that are borne on belief such as the idea that a deity is required to thrive successfully in this world. That idea is nothing but bunkum. So believe all you want but if you try to spread bunkum I am gonna say no.

Lord of the Reed
Happy New Year.
Trust you have been good.

musicwriter:


You must be a very wicked man. And you're probably out there also deceiving people in your stupidity.

This thread is a testimony to others on Nairaland that I used to be a religious fool myself because many don't know I also used to be deeply into the falsehood called Jesus. It's a warning to people to free themselves from religion. It's a warning to people to avoid ALL prophets, ALL pastors, ALL so called men of God claiming to hear from God because it's a fraud.

Now, I know the pastor himself is a blind man and didn't in any way open my eyes.

You gave 10k makes you "very deep in religion"? 10k?

Nah wa o. They for make you the head pastor because of that ni yen.

musicwriter:


Ok, I see you're still trapped in religion, so obviously you must act irrationally. That's the way it goes. I was once like you. In fact, I used to be dumber than you.

I also gave to Lord's chosen church, I was dumb enough to donate in US dollars there. Did I ask Lazarus Muoka to refund my money? I gave to Deeper life church too. Did I ask Kumuyi to refund my money?

I gave to City power international but never got confirmation that money was received. But Zenith bank has told me that the money was sent to the church. So I need the money back. The only way you can help is tell the church to refund the money. If you can't do that, stop derailing this thread.

You are acting like this and still have the boldness to call another person "irrational and dumb". Is like dumbness now has a new meaning. So sad.

LordReed:


Whatever you consider the best evidence you have.

Doing well man, you?

I am good here.

Do you understand theology or the supernatural? They are the basis of clear evidence to give. But if you don't, my explanation will be like one explaining the existence of skyscrapers to a man who hasn't seen more than a bungalow before. He will struggle to believe until he experiences it.


But to help in the simplest way,

The 2nd response on thread is the best answer you should think on.

By ayoncox

I don't have any evidences to present to you just as there are no evidences that proves that other planets exist.
When we pass away from this earth we will all know whether God exists or not, but as for me I have chosen to believe he does and that Jesus is the only way to him, it is my choice of believe no need for explanation.

Your rebuttal to his post inst strong enough and full of assumptions.

You assumed

1. That anyone can literally look up and identify the Venus. But we know it's not so, even when you can literally see it, it doesn't mean you know what it is, you can as well assumed it's just another star, or stone flying in the air, it takes education of it to know its a planet.

Same, it takes spiritual education to know this is God, even when you literally experience his graciousness everyday, you can always assume it's not God, but coincidence and skills. But proper education will clear that.

2. You likewise assumed, we can go to the space now and see evidence of venus but you forgot to state that this happened overtime in humans existence. It is a process of time.

Men had denied the water body of the earth.
Men had denied the shape of the earth

But all these were healed in process of time.

That spiritual education to know God will get to you and all, it is just a process of time, which can likewise at worst, be resolved in eternity.

That's what ayoncox is expressing to you.

LordReed:
I would like to cut to the chase, please no rigmarole, just present your best evidence for the god you believe in.

Make what you seek clearer.

What evidence do you seek.

Scientific
Theological
Supernatural

You make a proof or evidence in its domain not in any domain.

You cant use equations to prove anger exist. You have to experience it.

You can't use physics to explain that shark exist, you have to find it in its domain.

Just same way you can't use scientific rule to prove existence of love and passion.

What domain do you seek this God of all things, maybe you will find him, when your compass move to the right direction.


Longtime Bro.
I trust you are good.

HardMirror:
please spare me all this emotional tantrums. You think I am rejoicing over her? If you think that, that is your wahala.
If we dont use real life situations to evaluate how useful or useless our faith in God is, what should we use? You think life is about wearing beautiful clothes and going to church to dance makosa? I am talking real life here you are coming with your sympathetic emotional blackmail. Please get out of here if you have nothing to say

I dont know how you guys can be so terribly dishonest and sentimental. Cant you see? Dont you think? You just live day by day without reflecting on daily events and wonder what role your god plays in all you see?

This are events you that should get you asking questions.

You are tired Sir. You need rest.

HardMirror:
The very first day I read the news and saw her picture, I knew she was the Timid, pure hearted type and a lover of God.

Bamise trusted in God and God left her to die gruesomely. Why?
Why would an all loving, all powerful God allow a believer, his lively daughter die in this manner?

Did she have uncontested sins in her life? If yes, cant God give her the chance to repent? Is killing her the solution?

Please believers in the house can you by the holy spirit you claim lives in you tell us why god allowed this poor girl to die?


Many of you while reading her story, where making comments and asking God to protect you from evil, the same god that betrayed Bamise?

If you must pray and you believe god answers you why not go to the morgue where her body is and raise her from death?

Trying to score point on another one's grief is a very low thing to be involved in as human. Sometimes, it's just good to be silent and move even if you think you know better. Worse case paraphrase as the wise one by using real life issues as parable to drive your point and argue than mentioning names, the girls name.

But this you have done, is a low point for you. Don't be a social media hunter whose heart has been wretched in the claws of heartlessness.

Everything shouldn't be a cruise for you. If that girl is your sister, your immediate one, would you have come online in this short while to say this. Being sensitive is not just maturity, it's humanity.

Humanity above beliefs and non beliefs. If this is what your atheism is teaching you, then you are not only being far from the God you detest, you are far taken away from humanity.

sonmvayina:


In several instances in the gospels, Jesus is recorded to be praying. My question is who was he praying to? If you say the God who created the universe became man which I find insulting as man is but dust. Which of his prophet reported it in the Old testament as Amos 3;7 says " God does nothing without first revealing it to his servants the prophets...

Thanks.

Well like I said, are you open to discuss and can spend time to explain your point. The issue you are raising require proper and extensive discussion.

Like you said. Who did God reveal this to.

Actual to all the prophets, everyone. Non excluded. Every prophets upon whom the spirit of God has worked through said this.

Revelation 19:10 explained
The testimony of Christ (the witness) is the spirit upon the prophets.

Hence we can intelligently find how they all spoke of these.

And I hope you will be ready too to explore the new testament as your base argument is from it.

canada2022:
Please I need explanation to this part of our father prayer Jesus taught us in the gospel.

"and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil"

Does God lead his own creation into temptation

Dear canada2022

God doesn't and hasn't tempted anyone before and will never do.

James gave us an express statement by the holyghost.

James 5:13
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Observe
1. He said no man should ever say he is tempted of God.
2. God tempts no man

No man will include everyman that has walked om this earth. This includes Adam, Eve, Abraham, David, Jesus, you and I.

Verse 17 showed you what comes from God.
Good and perfect gift.

Every good and perfect gift is from above, from the father of light, in whom there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

That is what God does.



So how does temptation comes.

James showed us on verse 14 how temptation comes to a man.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed

Hence temptation are what result from our list and desires. Our desires, especially uncontrolled ones, desperate ones are what get us tempted.

For example, you cannot be tempted with what you don't like. If you aren't a smoker, and hate smoking, no matter how many smokers around you, you can't be tempted with it. But if you like meat, and you are placed to watch a bowl of meat, temptation can arise immediately. It is from our desire.

Sometimes, from desires that comes from immediate and legitimate needs just as Jesus.


So, James told you, temptation comes from what you lust after. This is all you will see all through the scriptures about those who are tempted or committed sins.

Adam and Eve (Lust of the eye)
1John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

David same
Jesus same

It was their desires that drawn them to be tempted not any thing external, not God, not the spirit of God.

---

Now on Matthew 6:13 you quoted.

It simply can be translated as

And cannot lead us into temptation but deliver us.....

The word not there translated from the Greek word me simply connote a negative term. What cannot happen

It was used as God forbid 15times in other places in the Bible.

Also note, if you observe well you will know he was using a contrast.

Temptations lead to doing evil.
God deliver us from evil.

You can't have one person doing the two.

Hence he is speaking about what God does for us in temptation. To deliver us.

Paul expressed that too.

1 Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

God is to make a way always out of those temptation. Usually through his word.

Jesus had this, and used God's word to overcome. His temptation were results of his desires, yet God's word was sufficient to deliver him from this evil.

In conclusion,
God do not lead any man into being tempted, he only delivers man from his lust.

Man has desires, legitimate ones, like Jesus was hungry, but the devil can take advantage of those desires if we aren't careful enough or desperate about this, this will get us into temptation. But we have hope, that God and his words are sufficient to always make away out of such danger to end in praise.

@Myer, Brother of God. I saw your contribution.

thankless:


After completing Richard Dawkins' book "The God Delusion", I found myself in some type of reflection on the nature of the God that comes across from the pages of the scriptures of the three monotheistic religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam! ...

Albert Afeso Akanbi is a writer, filmmaker and humanitarian...

Bro, in sincerity, if this is your take on those stories, I will advise you get someone who understands proper Bible interpretation to help you explain those stories. Or seek clarifications. You seems to be musing in thoughts but also muddling a lot together.


For example, the writer wrote with much excitement and was thinking as a modern superstar. But he lacks the comprehension of the ancient world where those stories were written from. That's a big gap in knowledge.


Culture, history and tradition are all part of man's timeline. Even God subjected his writings to these ideals of humanity, within the history and culture of man, he penned down his words by the hands of man.
How much more your writer or you born hundreds of years later.

Neglecting history and culture yet trying to find a meaning to ancient stories, is like riding a horse chariot to WW3. It's death on arrival. It will be easier to have a hen kill an elephant than such pen to find the truth in the word of God.

Please go get one who will help you with proper reading and explanation to help your decision and conclusion.

Myer:


Jesus, Moses, Paul and some Apostles operated in the fullness of the ministry gifts.
John the Baptist operated as an Evangelist and also as a Teacher but not as Prophet.

John the baptist not a prophet? Is this a joke Sir.

You are trying to fit your own narrative into the scriptures. You need to allow the scriptures to change your opinion.

John was not only a prophet, he was prophesied to be one. A teacher, a proclaimer of God's plan, the one who will speak and point to the Messiah. That is the duty of a prophet.

You are carrying the modern sense of a prophet. Prophets are primarily those who teach about an oracle, who speak on its behave and teach the nation/community how to walk with the oracle. That is the duty of a prophets.

The prophet is the only person qualified aside the king, that can gather the whole nation and community to teach, instruct and direct on what they must do and how they must fulfil the desires of the oracles. Isnt that is found in the world history, even in African history.

The biblical prophets arent different Sir. Primary role is to ensure everyone/nation/community are fulfilling God's plan via his teaching, instruction and correction. You must start seeing this.

Myer:

But not every one can teach. How difficult is this to comprehend?
Even in our secular school system, not everyone who passes exams is able to teach others to pass.
Which is why we have good teachers and bad teachers.

A bad teacher is simply someone who is not meant to be a teacher.

All prophets are teachers not just bible stand, it is what is seen across the history of man.

In the Bible, every ministry gift has a PRIMARY ROLE of a teacher. Take that to the bank. If you see anyone who claim to be a "ministry gift" and not teaching God's word as primary, he is just joking with you.

sonmvayina:

So who was he praying to in the garden of gatsemene

You cant do a bible study or engagement by dropping snippet of question. At least for me, i wont engage in that.

If you want to discuss, present what you see as been true or wrong, then we can start discussion. Or present your questions holistically not in pockets. That is how we can have proper discussion.

Reading or explaining in silos isnt the way bible is to be read or study.

Myer:


I get your point.
At the end of the day, some one needs to "teach" or mentor you into these things, right?

But there are some things you just have to be honest about.
Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.
Guess what, he got so frustrated cos they could never understand him.

This was what necessitated him praying for the Helper, cos there are some things you just can't teach. And that's because they are spiritual gifts.

Lol @Jesus tried hopelessly to teach his disciples a lot of things. But got tired.

No that is wrong. He taught them, they werent using their mind to think.

Luke 24:25
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

They couldnt even believe the prophets writings which is what Jesus taught. The word slow of heart, means they arent using their heart. It is inactive. Their mind wasnt involved. That is what they will do, not the Holyghost. The precursor to believing is mind engagement. That is clear.

We have people who believed him even before his resurrections.


See, example of those who engage their mind before they believed.

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that t[b]hey received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/b]

The bold above is their actions when they were taught. They werent born again yet but they were engaging their minds to know if its true.


The result of that exercise is next verse below.

12 Therefore many of them believed;

They now believed, became Christians.

Understanding the scriptures includes you engaging your mind in study not just the Holyghost helping.

Myer:


Moses primary role was to deliver the Israelites from Egypt and lead them to the promised land.

Teaching was not his forte. Which was why he declined his calling with so many excuses.

Along the line God made a prophet, teacher, pastor (shepherd), evangelist and apostle out of him.
He operated in all these ministries.

You need to reread the above well. If you see a prophet of God as deliverer and not a teacher. Ordinarily reading with the history and culture in mind will let you know you cant even be a deliverer or leader if you arent a teacher. One who teaches to raise and train others. Check the culture of Moses time.


Moses wrote 5 books as teaching manual not as story books. He wrote to teach God's plan, gave it to them. Joshua emphasized that it must be read all times.

I am surprised you view Moses as a voyager. A man that spent 90% of his time teaching and correcting. You need to review a lot above what you see Moses as.

Myer:

There are those who exclusively prophesy but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively evangelise but cannot teach.
There are those who exclusively teach but cannot prophesy.
Likewise there are those who exclusively teach but cannot evangelise.

The quote above is the foundation of all that is wrong in the world that profess Christ today. They are only your imagination, not the scriptures.

Show me one prophet in the Bible who isnt a teacher.

---

It is obvious you dont check scriptures i give you or likely you arent reading them well.

I gave you Moses words himself, when he said the primary way to judge a prophet is via what he teaches.

I gave you the case of John the Baptist, he was a prophet, what was his primary role? Prophesying? We dont need to look far. What was John the Baptist primary role.

LordReed:


I already quoted your exact words from the thread, it's now up to you to quote my exact words from that thread. Don't act the ostrich and think you are cute, you aren't.

Well the cuteness depends on who is looking. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

LordReed:


LoL! Yeah sure let's rely on your fuzzy memory when the literal written words are still available. I am not asking for you to believe, go quote me saying what you said but of course you can't because I didn't.

Well, you can create the time to look for the thread if you feel much to prove this. I am not in the trade to prove a point that already existed. I don't struggle to accept that you are right even when it's obvious you aren't at least for the sake of allowing you not to miss your dinner

LordReed:


Dude quote where I said what you said I did. Here is you saying what I said you did:

I can literally repeat discussions had, things I said or wrote even 10 years after,
So i don't have to, be searching through post to justify what I am sure of. But If you claim it's not true, I believe you.

Myer:


Spiritual gifts are not taught.
Working of miracles isn't taught, prophesying isn't taught. Which is why I faulted your submission that all of the ministry is primarily teaching.

Spiritual gifts are well taught in the Bible. All you listed were taught.

Paul taught spiritual gift in 1 Cor 12,13,14. Dedicated a whole chapter to teaching it (14). This includes prophesying and all.

Jesus taught his disciples how to work miracles, he instructed them on what can go wrong.

He taught them faith in God.
He taught them how to remain filled with the spirit and how faith works.

Book of Acts showed you practical and true life events on how these gift were discovered and established in the church. We saw Stephen, Philip, we knew they were taught by the Apostles, who were prophets, teachers, Pastors and evangelist. They saw them taught it and work it. Hence the 7 deacons were students of the apostles doctrine.

Those were teachings.

To say such were not taught in the Bible is not correct.

Faith in God is the beginning of all gifts and calling. Faith in God was taught from Genesis to Revelation. The essence of such is to build men and walk in spirit gift.

See Moses bow teaching the primary role of a prophets. Not for prophesying or miracles but teaching to follow God

Deut 13
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder.
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass,

whereof he spake unto (taught) thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jesus taught the same, Paul and Peter did. They were teaching emphasizing Moses.

A prophet who isn't a teacher of gods word, as primary duty should not be taken seriously.

We judge him by what he teaches. He if doesn't teach, we reject him.

This is the scripture stands.

sonmvayina:


So how did the word of God become Jesus the man?

Read The chapter as a conversation not as verses. It's stated there.

John was presenting a theology not writing verses like musicians.

VS 14 already showed you the answer.

VS 1, presented to you one God not two. Vs 14 presented to you same God in the flesh.

That is how he became. It's a poetic theology, read with such mind.

Myer:


This is simply your opinion.

If the primary role of all the ministry gifts is teaching then there will only be teachers.

A teacher teaches
A prophet prophesies
An evangelist preaches
A pastor leads
An Apostle plants churches.

You should already know these differences and that's what distinguishes them. Unless you're saying God or Paul didnt know what he was saying or "teaching".

You like suggesting the scriptures stand as my opinion. You will need to cross check things I say with the scriptures.

Scriptures should define responsibilities for you not grammar or English.

All you need to do is to obverse all through the scriptures this roles and see what they did primarily.

What was Moses primary role Sir? To prophesy or to teach/shepherd?

Why was John the Baptist called a prophet? What was his primary role as seen in the Bible Prophesy or teach?

What of Isaiah? Ezekiel?

What exactly do a prophet does primarily? To prophesy, foretell or to speak/teach people God's plan?

We shouldn't be taking our conclusion from common motives or English meaning. We must look into the scriptures. Those roles are well seen in the Bible.

When you have checked this well, you should come to this conclusion.

That primary role of

Prophet is teaching.
Pastor is teaching
Evangelist is teaching
Apostle is teaching.

A ministry gift without a primary role of teaching isn't called of God. Take that to the bank.

LordReed:


I think you need to reread the thread because I didn't say that.

Brother LordReed. Kindly reread the thread.

LordReed:


I had to go searching for the previous discussion in other to respond to this. Turns out what you said was "I thought they said atheists were full of knowledge" so please relate it to the OP.

You need to read through the thread you quoted above and see our discussion. It was premised on that fact that, Some atheist claim that their intelligent is superior to the theist because they aren't religious. But you claimed you haven't seen such before. Now I have shown you one here.

Myer:


We didn't contradict. Just pointing out that expecting miracles is not a wrong doctrine.

The church as we know should have various facets/ministries- some teachers, evangelists, prophets, pastors and apostles (Ephesians 4:11) with their corresponding spiritual gifts 1 Corinthans 12:7-12).

So we can't focus on just the pastor and teaching and neglect the prophets or evangelists. All are meant to work together to build the one body of Christ (Ecclesia) to fullness. Ephesians 3:17-18

Primary role of all ministry gift is teaching. NOTE that word "PRIMARY".

Apostle is a teacher of God's Word
Prophet is a teacher of God's Word
Pastor is a teacher of God's Word
Evangelist is a teacher of God's Word

This is the primary role of everyone of them. So I am not saying miraculous should be abandoned. What I push is that it shouldn't be the basis of judging God's word or a minister of God.

He is a minister of God, that minister his word in truth. Hence the miracles will be a support anchor not the focus.

Myer:


Experiencing the miraculous during evangelism is a sound doctrine as exemplified by Christ and the Apostles.
Also as promised by Christ in Mark 16:17-18

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Not sure this contradict my stand. Likewise the miraculous in evangelism isnt what build a believer. Teaching does. I will trust more a believer who put the learning of God's word in high esteem than one who rest on the miraculous. That is the teaching in the Bible.

Workch:
IQ doesn't mean you wont do well in your particular business. If you had an IQ above average, you would figure that out.
Low IQ means you will struggles when matters that has to do with critical reasoning confront you, it doesn't mean that you can't do well in a business you have learned or do well in jobs requiring directives.

You keep proving this study right with every post you make that theists are on the average less intelligent. You don't even know how IQ work

I guess you are speaking of selling garri as business or selling data?

I doubt if you run a "business" nor be around top strategist who have assignment of scaling businesses since you think critical think starts and end in atheist and theist argument.

You will surely do well in skitting.

Workch:
should we use Sunday school class test to reach a conclusion that is meant to measure intelligence quotient?

You are the jury and the judge, so decide. I am only at your service. As you talk am, nah so it is.

But I hopeful hope that this your acclaimed high IQ is beyond paper and test, that you are using it to transform your business, work environment and people around you. The result of IQ is not on nairaland or online test it is found in your impact and relationship with others.

Workch:
It's just IQ test, it's not based on any field.
Can't you read?

Sorry, it's IQ test you used to come to this your conclusion? What a conclusion

Myer:


Yea, same here.
Like minds. The mind of Christ perhaps.lol

Mind engagement is interesting but more than that I long for spiritual engagement viz the manifestations of the Word and power of the Holyspirit in us, through us and around us. God knows we need it now more than ever individually and as a nation and generation.

I remember back when evangelism was my daily joy, it was a challenge meeting people with real life challenges and after preaching the gospel to them, they confessed their sins and placed their faith in Christ. After prayers you believe God for the manifestations but nothing happened.

Over time I became discouraged.

That's why I don't really believe some portions of the bible anymore, which explains why this thread was opened.

You read an account of what is written that Jesus said in one gospel but not mentioned in any other gospel. And you wonder if truly Jesus said it or it was a product of biblical canonisation. Those who put the bible together decided what they wanted in the bible.

Hmmm.

Christianity was built upon the foundation of right Bible interpretation. That is what Jesus did 80% of his time, what all apostles spent their life on. Miracles, signs are good and perfect, they still happens today but they were never given to build a believer. They were not meant to be what determines our faith or the scriptures. Doctrine is the unchanging yard at which we search, seek, find and know God and what he truly says. The eternal life which is the word of God.

This is the reason a Christian walk must be founded upon a strong desire for Bible interpretation and sound doctrine not on miracles. Anything outside this can be manipulated, remade, adjusted, teleguided or worked by the adversaries.

This is the reason for the rise of organized rebellion like atheism even among those who claimed to be "former" Christian. They were exposed to falsehood of always getting what you want or desire. It stemmed from poor appreciation of proper Bible interpretations.


Any Christian life built outside a strong exposure and desire to know the scriptures by properly interpreting its message will be heading towards confusion.

This confusion may be evident in some worship places today, but we trust God.

Yes, we trust God, that the light of his word will spread more above all confusion and manipulation.

We pray that strong churches, local churches that are built on the foundation of strong desire for proper Bible interpretation not on self seeking benefits either by the preacher or the members will be heard louder in these days.

That the voice of the Spirit will be heard through proper Bible interpretations even among those who claim its unnecessary.

Yet, the miraculous will be seen in our midst more and more but will never take the place of rightly dividing the word which is what build men.

Amen.