LordReed:


Believing in God and Atheism

You need to read me well.

What I wrote is quoted below.

Believing in God and Atheism are elements of man's conviction. It's not changed by material benefits or circumstances.

Two elements
1. Believing in God
2. Atheism

Are elements (plural). Hence I am referring to two things.

One is a belief in God. The other is atheism (lack of belief in God), Not "believing in atheism".

I hope it's clear now.

1Sharon:



You asked me how you're supposed to know my mind, and I said can't your holy spirit help you? Or of what use is he

Is this what you were taught the holy spirit does? To spy on your thoughts?

LordReed:


Na wa o how does one believe in atheism? LMAO!

Believe in atheism kè. Where do you see that? Me sef dey laugh here.

Ovamboland:


Now that we are older and no longer gather under the tree to listen to tales by moonlight, we now realised those tales are fiction and mere illustrations to teach moral values.

Now are you saying those supernatural tales of animals talking to humans, creation stories etc in the bible are fiction not real events?

You are left as a good reader to know how to read books you hold so as to decipher what the author is communicating.

Stories can be
Fictional
Literal
Figurative.

Bible stories has more of the last two.

It's left for a good reader to pay attention well to know where a story is literal or figurative.

Likewise to be smart enough to know the prevalence knowledge, science and culture of their time.

For example,
Even though Bible contains creation stories, but the writer wasn't writing creation stories for you. You must read well.

Please read the above again and we'll.


Moses wasn't the founder of knowledge for humanity, not the first to speak about creation. Stories existed before him. Hence, if his focus is about creation stories, then he wasn't communicating anything new to his audience. This is where the key to learning his writing his.


Moses was a prophet not a scientist or astronomer or creationist. He was a prophet. One who reveals God's plan in humanity. Even though he can use existing information and stories around him to explain God's plan, he wasn't teaching the creation but God's word and will.


Hence you must read his writing as such.


The moment you start reading the Bible as a creation book, you have started having zeros from the beginning. The Bible is God's plan for humanity, plan fo salvation. It's not a book for accepting or refuting science or creation or flood etc. It is a book that must be read for what it is. God's plan. Read that again also.


Lastly and more importantly, pay attention to what I want to say bow and keep it somewhere if you aren't a Bible student.


Do you observe that no one in the new testament who read Moses spoke about the creation or snake but about God's plan. Bear in mind that all they taught and wrote in NT were taken from studying the OT. Yet their interpretation was never about creation but God's plan.


Paul read Gen 1:3 he called it the light of the glorious gospel (2 Cor 4:3-6),

John read the same called it the light of man, John 1:4,9.


So we should ask ourselves what exact we are reading, if the early reader saw only God's plan in their studies not creation or science.

Now are you saying those supernatural tales of animals talking to humans, creation stories etc in the bible are fiction not real events?

jabolo:


@hupernikao... please answer this direct question if you can.

Yes or No would do.

Thanks.

We come in peace.

Okay, let me give you a good YES OR NO

See it below

Stories can be
Fictional
Literal
Figurative.

Bible stories has more of the last two.

It's left for a good reader to pay attention well to know where a story is literal or figurative.

Likewise to be smart enough to know the prevalence knowledge, science and culture of their time.

For example,
Even though Bible contains creation stories, but the writer wasn't writing creation stories for you. You must read well.

Please read the above again and we'll.


Moses wasn't the founder of knowledge for humanity, not the first to speak about creation. Stories existed before him. Hence, if his focus is about creation stories, then he wasn't communicating anything new to his audience. This is where the key to learning his writing his.


Moses was a prophet not a scientist or astronomer or creationist. He was a prophet. One who reveals God's plan in humanity. Even though he can use existing information and stories around him to explain God's plan, he wasn't teaching the creation but God's word and will.


Hence you must read his writing as such.

---

The moment you start reading the Bible as a creation book, you have started having zeros from the beginning. The Bible is God's plan for humanity, plan fo salvation. It's not a book for accepting or refuting science or creation or flood etc. It is a book that must be read for what it is. God's plan. Read that again also.


Lastly and more importantly, pay attention to what I want to say bow and keep it somewhere if you aren't a Bible student.


Do you observe that no one in the new testament who read Moses spoke about the creation or snake but about God's plan. Bear in mind that all they taught and wrote in NT were taken from studying the OT. Yet their interpretation was never about creation but God's plan.


Paul read Gen 1:3 he called it the light of the glorious gospel (2 Cor 4:3-6),

John read the same called it the light of man, John 1:4,9.


So we should ask ourselves what exact we are reading, if the early reader saw only God's plan in their studies not creation or science.

Hope you have the YES OR NO from the explanation.

LordReed:


LMAO! How does being an atheist preclude one from receiving material benefit from a church organisation? And what has conviction got to do with it? What conviction is an atheist supposed to have?

BTW I am not speaking for anyone, my post was solely directed at you and your ability to detect false atheists.

For an atheist it doesn't matter, benefit is benefit and not conviction.

For most untrained psychologist, their belly is their God, where they can get, is where their worship lies. Lack of helper or help from the place they criticize is the root of their hatred. When that benefit start forthcoming back , they will deactivate their account on NL and open another to sing praises to God.

Believing in God and Atheism are elements of man's conviction. It's not changed by material benefits or circumstances.

---

Most of the ones here on NL, don't even know there are atheists who don't have access to internet or used it before, who don't have access to scientific research or evidence but hold conviction in atheism.

They think atheism starts and end on internets, on advance knowledge, on thinking critically. Very false disposition. And childish view of life. This is the reason you will hear things like: atheism exposes you to critical thinking, makes you a knowledgeable person etc...

Atheism has been before discovery of computers. Some ancient culture hold that conviction. I have known atheists even before some of the untrained psychologist here start wearing diapers. I have met uneducated atheist, educated one etc.

So if I spot at distance an untrained psychologist trying to claim atheist, you should know where I am coming from. And they know, the reason they are fighting it through and through.

Ovamboland:


Keep dribbling, reading books is now a soccer game.

Did snake talk to Eve or not? Should we take it as a work of fiction like George Orwell's animal form or real events that took place on this earth?
All your gymnastics betray underlying dishonesty.

Just ensure you read me well here at least. That will help your thought.

Moses writing that is over 3000 years old shouldn't be hard for you to understand if you are ready to learn.

The ancient world understood clearly what he was teaching. It's sad that millennia even in their advancement of knowledge can't understand literacy.


When you were young and was told stories of how tortoise broke his shell through his greed by trying to climb into heaven. He fell and broke his shell. His friends helped him to gum the shell together hence the reason his shell is like that today.

I am sure you believed it that time at tender age, but when you grew, you know better that the story was not to be a literal action but communicating a wisdom for living and wisdom to understand how things are in humanity. The truth you know from it doesn't therefore invalidate the story but give a perspective of teaching and learning.


Now, anyone who have grown up in knowledge won't read serpent talking in Genesis and get confused. Ancient world used stories, figures to explain wisdom to their audience. Enter a village and sit with the elders, listen to how they communicate wisdom to you.

They use stories, adages, figures yet you don't have issues with that as you understand clearly what it means. Why then do we throw away our education and proper reasoning when reading the bible?

If you have been taught well and have read the whole Bible, you will know that Moses as a prophet of God and advanced in knowledge was communicating wisdom but not teaching stories. He wasn't teaching kindergartens, so I want you to set your mind rolling beyond tales by moon light of nursery class and start reading well.

So, you shouldn't be arguing,
what you should ask is

What was Moses communicating?

LordReed:


When someone tells me they are an atheist I don't go about psychoanalysing them to to know if they are what they say they are. The only criteria for being an atheist is lack of belief, how you can tell someone doesn't lack belief when they say they do must be a skill unique to you.

..

Mainly, Lack of belief in God. You need to complete it.

So in your mind, those you are speaking for here truly lack a belief in a god?

The once that will soon port to another form of worship.

Well, sorry. I am a detailed person, I pay attention to what people say in their loose times, and do to be sure of the conviction they hold. It's not enough to just type or say something, it must be seen in you even in your worst and best of times, that's conviction.

The first bundle of those you speak for now only lack belief in a god because they couldn't receive the"promised bundle of prosperity and magic money the priest assure them". Let churches start giving out social or financial benefits today, you will see them lick the wounds. No conviction.

The other bundle is just confused and need to show as knowledgeable. These ones aplenty here.

They are just rebels not atheist. Hence when they speak as atheist they sound more like an untrained psychologists. Go ahead and test their conviction yourself.

gsegun43:




Joker of the century

Okay Sir.

Ovamboland:



Did a snake/serpent convince Eve to eat the forbidden fruit or was it a man/spirit/angel?

Did the sun stop setting so that Joshua can finish his conquest?

Did Moses part the red sea by stretchig his rod or not?

Did Moses' rod turn into a snake or not? then what did the guys who attacked a man for turning kids to yam done wrong?

Bro, like I said your issue is not bible understanding. Your issue is reading well, reading what is written. You don't have a good understanding of literature and history. It's obvious in all your write up there.

We will only be arguing of I start to explain the scriptures to you since you can't even get how books are to be read well. So let's start with that first. I am sure all your questions will be answered before we finish the class in literacy explanation.

MaxInDHouse:


You lack understanding of what the OP wrote!

He's not talking about the truth rather he wants everyone to agree that miracles are still possible in churches of today, then you guys can direct him to where it's happening for real.
But what pains him most is that Jehovah's Witnesses who are zealously preaching to industriously teaching globally as Jesus commanded told him that miracles aren't happening in any church unlike what he read in the Bible. So he's angry with Jehovah's Witnesses for not preaching miracles to him when that is what he wants now!

If you're not spiritually deaf someone said "Christianity is a disgrace to Christ" and you're here asking him to talk about churches, why not direct him to the church where he can get what he wants?

For your information, the group name "CHRISTIANS" was borrowed by our first century Jewish brothers, the name our God chose to call all His worshipers right from the time of Abel till today is "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" that's why He patiently waited until Satan's agents have all carried the group name "CHRISTIANS" on their head before He began calling His true worshipers by another name from the year 1931! Isaiah 65:15

So the OP is right, the group name Christians has become a CURSE not a blessing that's why it has no pedigree even in your gathering the way you people expected it to be!

Well this is your own view. You can create your own thread too to narrate this. As for the OP I will await the comment and changes.

Ovamboland:


I don't think any religion has been formed on the basis of the literal truth of Animal farm.

Neither is your well-being dependent on the belief that George Orwell wrote true accounts of events in Animal Farm.
No true story should be shy of scrutiny and close examination, and attempt to damn anyone seeking for the truth of it's assertions.

It's either you don't understand the poser I raised or your response is not for me.

Whatever the case. The point is, you don't scrutinize a text based on false interpretation or lack of understanding of the text. That is the basics. You can't criticize or scrutinize what you don't even understand how to read properly. This is the point here that need to be addressed.

LiberatedGirl:
It's extremely sad I have come in contact with two Christians who go to Church regularly yet have Zero faith in Jesus Christ. Both claim they have faith in Christ but it's more of HOPE in Jesus Christ. Hope is thinking Christ will Help you in your time if trouble , while Faith is Knowing Christ will help you. Hope is not as strong as Faith. It's like getting unto a road to get to a place you never been before . You can only hope you are on the right road. Faith is more sure. You know where your house is you know the street that leads to your house.
The Bible says " Faith Cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God ". Sadly most Christians read the Bible like a newspaper and not an instruction manual. A major problem Christians have is picking portions of the Bible they like and not reading other portions , what that does is create a very shallow knowledge base. When the tests and trials come because those people knew little and did little they get swept away by the tide. Take Jehovah's Witnesses who do not believe in miracles, they will say miracles was for Christ's Era and miracles have stopped but Jesus said " Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my word will remain ". Miracles occurred long before Jesus Christ and Christianity read your Old Testament ,Miracles are almost a dime a dozen. God still performs miracles. " I Am the same Yesterday, Today and Forever " is a regular theme throughout the Bible. Because people do not know how to do miracle does not mean there are no more Miracles.
People just cannot believe the whole Bible. In the end they are the ones who will suffer and perish for lack of knowledge.

OP please change your title to reflect your witness and disposition. You only spoke about "2 Christians", but your title says "Christianity". Please change it to either "Christians you know" or better still "the 2 Christians you met" .

That will be more like it in all honesty. As your topic reflect over a billion people all around the world, which your context disproved. That makes the topic untrue. Please adjust it.

Thanks.

LordReed:


LoL @ your line of thought. Dude, are you forgetting I asked you what a theoretical atheist is so how can that be my line of thought? The question that was asked of you what the criteria for a "theoretical real atheist" would be since you seem to be able to distinguish between real atheists and false ones. You changed it to theoretical atheist indicating you are confused by the question. IMALIYU is not asking you for theoretical atheist he was asking you what your criteria for who a real atheist is, he used the qualifier theoretical because you are the one theorising about real and false atheists. Put another way he was asking you how do you know who a "untrained psychologist" masquerading as an atheist is.

You need to go and reread what he asked. He wasn't asking me for criteria of "real atheist". He spoke about a Theist. Go read it again.

Secondly, I told you that I don't hold a thought if real or fake atheist. I only know there are atheist and anyone who doesn't fall into such category but trying to be one is not a false atheist, he is no atheist at all, and the best description of such based on their general attitude is "untrained psychologist".


And on your last question.
You yourself know them, they are here. Even more than the atheist they try to identify with.

jabolo:



Hey Chief, I am asking this from an 'interested spectator of this exchange' viewpoint, no declared skin in this particular fight.

- If the Bible is the key to everlasting salvation, why do you need a special ability to read properly to analyze it? Y'know, to avoid taking the stories at face value?

- Does having this ability imagine some level of education/critical reasoning?

- How is such ability distributed among the general populace, so everyone has a chance at this everlasting salvation?

Again, I come in peace.

I want you to reread the bold above and understand the meaning yourself.

This is the major issued around Bible reading.

Take this and take it well.

When you read the bible, you must not loose your literacy sense. You mustn't be imagining. You must ensure all your interpretation obey the rules of literature. The reason being, the moment it is a written document to people, the writer won't import unknown language or words not known but use the prevalent language in their time. This is the only way the audience can understand him. This languages are govern by rules. Hence the writing must agree to it.


Hiding under Bible is "God's word" to now read it badly is not a good excuse. God inspired it doesn't mean God imported his own language to communicate. God's language of communicating to man is man's languages. You don't give inspiration in Igbo to someone who only understand Yoruba. The Bible inspiration was received in the authors language and documented as same.


So, do you need special knowledge?

No,but if you hold an English Bible in your hand you can't be interpreting it as a yoruba man. You must read and interpret it with the knowledge of the language you read.

For example.

When you are hungry you will say
In English: I am hungry

But saying that exactly in yoruba will be an error.

In yoruba it simply mean: Èmi ní Ebí (like I am hungry personified)

Same thing happens vis versa.

In yoruba: Ebí npamí
English: Hunger is killing me.

I am sure you know non of these make sense in the other language. So basic understanding of the language and its lexicon is key.


This knowledge isn't special but available as much as English education is available. So the issue here is that the one I am correcting doesn't know how to read English well. That's the education. His problem is not Bible problem but English language.

Techguy96:

Lol, you are trying to play smart with me. But honestly you end up writing nothing.
If u really want to engage in a discussion with me, we will pick parts of the bible and analyse them.

What u wrote up here is pure trash.

How do I analyze Bible with you when you don't actually know how to read properly. You will only be arguing. This is what need to be corrected first.

You are seeing plain text like vision, and your interpretation is like one who is watching movies and retelling the scene.

So, let's start from that, that's when we can move to a proper point of examining the scripture. Hope you are ready to learn.

Ovamboland:


You don't even know your Bible, you are just carrying around and maybe putting under your pillow.

Which animal spoke to Eve and convinced her to eat the forbidden fruit? 20 marks

E Pèlé Sir.

Is this how you read in the exam?
How many snakes have you spoken to lately Sir. Maybe you can try one today and give feedback here.

You will better do well to unlearn all those falsehood in your mind. Your disposition today seems to be based on wrong and false information. And you are proud in such heritage.

Even with all advancement of knowledge, I still wonder that a millennia will read such stories and still interpret it as a snake talking. What exactly do most learn in their secondary school age.

Bro, please go and pick a class in literature and reading comprehension.

Techguy96:

How do u read the bible if I may ask, literally or figuratively?

No one will read animal farm and take it literally but figuratively, we know George Orwell wasn't really talking about animals but human beings and how they can be corrupt by power.

In the bible it was claim that balam donkey talk because he saw an angel, how else would you interpret that.

You seem to be the confused person here if u don't know when a book is literally or figurative.

The bible that is claim to be the word of God yet so confusing n self contradicting. If you are been truthful with yourself u will agree is not a clear written explanatory book but a book of myth, fairytale n fables.

You will need to calm down and step down from that professorial seat you assumed. This is the only way you will learn. It's obvious you need this.

I just pointed to you that you must obey all literature rules yet you are cherry picking still. This is why you see contradiction.


Every literature writing has usage of literal and figurative expression. It's left to you to understand this and where it is used. There is no book that will be called figurative and no book that is called literal. A good student of literature will let you know that figurative is not only when you use figure but also expressions.

For example. If I say
His older brother, the one with six kids, will be visiting next week.

This is a figure of speech called Parentheses Something that is added to a statement to provide extra information or an explanation. This is often separated from the main clause by brackets, commas, or dashes.

Source: www.theidioms.com

But I am sure, you may likely not have seen that as one.


So, you need to calm down and have a proper discussion to help your reading.


The contradiction you see are in your reading eyes. You haven't read well Sir. This is what I want you to see.

For example, you are seeing talking snake, that means you have a wrong understanding of how it's read. And if you have this issue with the beginning (Genesis) what do you think will happen all through your bible interpretation.

The story of the Bible was built upon Genesis stories, so if the foundation is not well known, you will be seeing contradiction in all.

LordReed:


But you are the one saying some people are not atheist.

I am not just saying it. It's obvious.

Yet they are not atheist, not even theoretical (if I am to use your line of thought). They only come under the umbrella of atheism to find identification.

LordReed:


He mentioned "theoretical true Atheist" which was a reference to your attempt to gatekeep who is a true atheist and who isn't but you changed it to theoretical atheist. Were you confused by his question?

Well, like you saw in my response. I only know atheist, I don't subscribe to theoretical ones. Or better still, I don't subscribe to true or false atheist. It's either you are an atheist or you aren't.

Techguy96:

So the bible is now a literature, interesting.

So how would you explain the talking donkey in the bible?

Leave the cherry picking. It doesn't give knowledge. Address the basic issue you have first. Ability to read and interpret Bible the way its written and for the purpose it's written.

So far this is missing, all other things will only be mirage.

Start first with understanding what a literature is.

What is a literature? It is something written.

The Bible you know was a written document, I hope you know? Hence it falls within the context of literature. Hence according to the Bible testimony, we can now call it inspired literature. So don't mix it up.


How does this help in Bible understanding

1. Your understanding and interpretation of it must not be drawn outside the rule of literature.

2. It must obey the culture, usage of words, language and tradition of the prevalent literature of its time.

The 2 above are fundamental flaws clear in your understanding of the Bible.


So, now you will need to pick the Bible again and start using the knowledge of a good reader to read it. Even if you don't believe in what it said, at least you owe yourself a duty not to misinterpret it. That is what is called honesty.

LordReed:


Who is a theoretical atheist?

Bros, but you read me nah. You need to read the comment I quoted. He was the one who mentioned that. My response was what you quoted. Personally, I don't refer to any atheist as theoretical. But I know there are untrained psychologist here claiming to be atheist.

kingxsamz:


When you're done ranting and ready to make your point, let us know.

Point for you? You already made your point as someone who doesn't understand the terrain he chose to ply. Please start reading beyond the 90s it will help you.

Techguy96:

What about the unicorn n talking donkey?
Na only snake u see for my write up, don't try to play smart with me.

Besides the bible said a serpent (snake) deceived eve.

How can a snake deceived a human being.

Is this how you read your books Sir? When you read animal farm (if you have read it before), was this how you understood it? How will you feel if someone write here that "how can George Orwell says, animal is talking?"

Most times we lose our basic knowledge of reading when it is the Bible yet we blame its believer for such fault too. Aren't you doing the same now. Reading a literature like someone watching movies?

So, Bro go back and reread well or take classes to be taught well before engaging in criticism. That's how things are done.

kingxsamz:


Like I said, keep crying.

So you have monopoly of babalawoish. To conjure values and send here. You can't give your proof? Oga ju.

kingxsamz:


When you're done ranting and ready to make your point, let us know.

I am asking you a question. Is it hard for you to answer ni.

Have you read history beyond 1980s? Your write up is saying otherwise. Let's start from there.

IMAliyu:
.

And concerning your reasoning on the convictions of a theoretical true Atheist, what would a true Theist look like?

There is no theoretical atheist per say. Maybe we have on NL. On ground, there is nothing like that, Not all these ones here that won't know when "oh God help me" will come out of their mouth by reflex when in trouble. .

A true atheist can't make such mistake. He is programs in absolute opposite of the one who believe in God.

For a true Theist, well, I will rather speak as a or for a Christian than as a or for Theist.

IMAliyu:

I don't really see how this = untrained psychologist

I have no intent to offend, but I'd say it's you who is trying to psycho analyse, people here without a license, unless you yourself are a trained psychologist.

On the subject of the lack of conviction, if you peer into the views of a lot of atheists here, you'd discover that they are really just agnostics.
They are people who've had their belief systems and idea of truth blown into the water by conflicting information and reality, got disillusioned and never found a way to reconcile the two.

So is agnostic the better descriptor in my opinion.

Some cling to science as it is a system of enquiry into the world, that has been more successful at separating facts from human fiction, more than anything else, if the truth of the question of God's existence and which is true God is to be answered independent of the fallibility of man and his convictions, it should be by a structured method of enquiry, which so far only science seems to be offering.

And concerning your reasoning on the convictions of a theoretical true Atheist, what would a true Theist look like?

I guess agnostic aren't one who vowed to oppose God or those who hold belief in God just because he felt disappointed or hurt by same God? The ones you called agnostics here have much of their conviction from the description above. I will rather stay with the narrative of calling them untrained psychologist who is trying to fit into an identity.

If they claim to be agnostics by themselves, we can start looking at that direction of discussion.

But claiming to be atheist when they are not is like a bicycle rider who want to take the driving seat of a lorry. The end point nah accident.

kingxsamz:


Is there a point you're trying to make? If so, let us know because I don't understand the gibberish you're typing. Are you saying there's no genocide carried out in your bible or what?

Who are the "us". Are they many in you? It was your statement not "us" statement. And I asked you have you read beyond 1980s because your knowledge of ancient book seems very poor.

kingxsamz:


Oh, I see, you've come to rant. Well go on and shed your tears here, everyone's watching.

Is that the best answer you got? What makes you different from those you abuse. If you can concort together statistics like a babalawo without any proof. Aren't you worse that those you opposed.

So much of rational thinking. Epèlé.

Skybridge33:
Elon Musk is irreligious. His belief system could possibly be described as atheist or agnostic as best. His only faith is in science and in a systematic understanding of the universe and how the laws of the universe work, and in humankind.

Elon Musk Has Never Prayed

Wilson first asked Musk what he worshipped, to which he replied that he didn’t worship anything. “I do devote myself to the


advancement of humanity,” he said, “by using technology.” When asked if he prayed, Musk quipped, “I didn’t even pray when I almost died of malaria.”

According to Nigeria pastor if you don't pay tithe you won't get rich or be blessed. My question is why are these atheists people so blessed?

https://celebanswers.com/is-elon-musk-religious/

It seems you have a lot of basics mixed up. He had "faith in science"? Do you fully understand what that means? Or you are just fixative on attacking "the Nigeria Pastors" than understanding well what you are speaking about? Bro, sit well o.

Techguy96:

Where in my write up did I say Jesus was a bad person. I'm talking about Christianity as a whole n all religion inclusive. Besides if u are talking about good morals n behavior other religion present that too. But if u choose to believe I snake can talk then a human can turn into a yam. It's as simple as that.

Where did you see a snake talking Sir? What are you reading and how do you actually read?