₦airaland Forum

Wirinet,

Awesome story and also inspirational. You a fan of Carl Sagan? He was a great educator. If only I could have 1% of his abilities. I just order one of his books (Demon haunted World) and can't wait to read it.

Whereabouts in the world are you based?

davidylan:
this must be the 679th time this topic is being dealt with. Is Huxley so bored?

How often do you read your bible?

wirinet:
Huxley,

You are one aggressive dude, well i feel you. I just advice you to take it slowly and gradually.

Please ask my fellow Christian how they would feel, if the jews came to their land and claim their God had given the land to them and kill all their Men, children, women, goats and lizard. Would you be ever disposed to worshiping such God, and accepting your conquerors are favoured by That God than you?

How do you expect the Palestinians to worship the God of their enemy, Should that God not act as a Peace Keeper and bring the two people together?

Don't mistake my tone on these post for my true nature. I am a very mild-mannered individual. I made a promise to myself about 25 years ago when I was considering what to believe that my only criterion for believing anything would be reason and philosophical consistency. I have trained myself in critical thinking to the extend that I can spot irrationality many miles off

davidylan:
What you do is not "challenge" my position but simply run a disgusting campaign of calumny against the christian belief.
I'd rather you were honest and challenged the islamists too just as much as you claim to "challenge" us.

In a democratic world, your delusion, masquerading as piety and respectable, affects us all. That is why it ought to be challenged.

wirinet:
Huxley, although i have left Christianity a long time ago, that does not mean i do not appreciate the finer points of Christianity or of the personality of Jesus Christ.

Christ's method of changing people's views were exemplary and non comfrontational.

1. The supreme authority of the time was Caesar and Christ never attacked or confronted Caesar.
2. Christ conformed to the Judaism he met and did not attack any of the prophets in the Torah.
3. Christ was able to turn over the tables at the temple without getting into trouble with the temple priest because it was against Judaism to trade in the temple ( because it is a sacred place)
4. That Christ was going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days is not confrontational and besides it seems silly to me. I wonder why Bible writer added that bit.
5. Jesus Christ called the people Hypocrites because that is the truth, Just like Nigerian Christian leaders. He attacked the persons and not their beliefs.

Jesus cooperated more with his opponents, His best friends were not followers, he eat and slept in non believer's house (opponents).

I hope you appreciate my arguments.

I appreciate your view and it is obvious that you approach issues with a lot of thought - which is what i like best.

May I ask - why did you leave Christianity?

I like you conciliatory manner of approaching these issues and yes - different tactic for different people. I find the most fundamentalist and bible literalists have to be confronted head-on because they uniquely refuse to engage their minds.

For those open to looking at the evidence, a conciliatory tone is more suitable.

4. That Christ was going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days is not confrontational and besides it seems silly to me. I wonder why Bible writer added that bit.

I was struck by this comment. Why should they not have added it in the bible. On what basis should things be added in the bible?

GOD_LOVES:
Note: Japheth did not know it would be his daughter who would come to great him. in Verse 30 he sad whatsoever not whosoever.

As for Abraham, you have mist the point of the story.
The story is there to show some things.
First: that Abraham had faith in God, Genesis 21:8
He did not need to question God because God had already promised Abraham that Isaac would become a great nation. Abraham knew God, and he knew God would provide a lamb, instead of his son.

You are right when you say that sacrificing children was Normal back then. the people around Israel and also in times Israel itself would offer there children to gods(like Mo-lech). But i have yet to see God asking and taking the life of a child as a sacrifice.

You are also right about God ordering Israel to slay at different point in history certain Nations.


Note that all these Nations had prosecuted Israel( Gods People) and Gods promise to Abraham stated That God would curse them that cursed Israel. Those Nations Israel destroyed were destroyed because thy went against Israel.
As for those children that were killed, the were saved from a future of hatred toward Gods people

This is Judges 11:

30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.


What did he expect might come out of his house to greet him - animals (dogs, goats, pigs, horse)? Did they live with such animals in the house? They might have lived with dogs as domestic pets, but would dogs have been allowed as burnt offerings? Methink not. Dogs were unclean.

Did they have goats, horses in the house? What else could have come out of his house to meet him?


Where the non-Jewish nations any less human? Did they deserve to be treated the way the Jews treated them - killing all their children, animals and looting their possessions?

Would any of such acts be acceptable today? If not why not?

Is morality a function of time?

morpheus24:
wirinet

He still don't get it. However I am aware Huxley is intelligent enough to know controversy sparks more responses and is using that to his advantage.

Look at Jesus's technique;


"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in,

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these things ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, " (Matthew 23:13, 23:23-26)

GOD_LOVES:
No! I believe he could have given God a lamb or given some Other vow. He vowed something he should not have. I would have done it different from the first. I would not have given the vow that he did. I Know God could have given him The Victory without His vow

Now just think about the wider implications

Firstly, was this an isolated incident or was it a practice embedded in the society? Why would he think sacrificing his beloved daughter would be the sort of thing god would be pleased with? Could he have had friends and neighbours who would do similarly should a happenstance favour them? Although it is not stated in the bible, and if the story is true, do you think this would have been an isolated incident?

Secondly, when god commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son, we did not see/hear any objections from Abraham. I wonder why! Could it be because child-sacrifice was a regular practice in their society?

Abraham is recorded to have objected strong when god was going to destroy Sodom&Gomorah. He pleaded and remonstarted with god. But for his own son, he did not plead. I wonder why?

Also think about all the women and innocent children god would have killed through Japheth. For if god gave him victory, then god allowed the killing of these innocent people.

GOD_LOVES:
Japheth gave his Daughter to God because God gave him Victory. I do Not need to do that, God has already given me Victory. All the blood has already bin given, By Jesus the Christ. We have no need for sacrifice Animal or Human, The price has already bin paid

Was his act a commendable act then?

GOD_LOVES:
No I did not, but I also did not hear him say, Do it, do it Jephthah, kill your daughter. but that one got me, I had read it before, I just missed it, I guss.

I do not understand fully why God allowed that, but Do not see him requesting it EITHER.
But I find comfort in the idea that Jephthahs beloved daughter was willing, I'm sure i will see her in Heaven.

If this is a commendable act, could you follow Jephthahs example and sacrifice you daughter too? After all, you will meet her again in heaven.

And this is what my New Century Version of the bible says about Lev 27: 29.

"[size=16pt]If anyone is given for the purpose of being destroyed, he cannot be brought back; he must be put to death.[/size]"

GOD_LOVES:
The verse does not say Man as you quoted it.
Leviticus 27:29(read it again)
And also check in your Bible if someone somewhere give His/Her child to God and it was than killed. No you find that The child would be in God service (Like Samuel),You will find no were in the Bible were children are killed as a sacrifice to God.
"put to Death" as I have already written can also mean, to separate from something are someone. It does not have to mean killing.
Adam and Eve were "put to Death", thy were separated from God, not killed.

You surely do NOT know your bible then. Why not turn to Judges 11 and read about how a daughter being sacrifice to god;
================================================================================

1Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah.

2And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman.

3Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him.

4And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel.

5And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob:

6And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon.

7And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress?

8And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead.

9And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, If ye bring me home again to fight against the children of Ammon, and the LORD deliver them before me, shall I be your head?

10And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, The LORD be witness between us, if we do not so according to thy words.

11Then Jephthah went with the elders of Gilead, and the people made him head and captain over them: and Jephthah uttered all his words before the LORD in Mizpeh.

12And Jephthah sent messengers unto the king of the children of Ammon, saying, What hast thou to do with me, that thou art come against me to fight in my land?

13And the king of the children of Ammon answered unto the messengers of Jephthah, Because Israel took away my land, when they came up out of Egypt, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and unto Jordan: now therefore restore those lands again peaceably.

14And Jephthah sent messengers again unto the king of the children of Ammon:

15And said unto him, Thus saith Jephthah, Israel took not away the land of Moab, nor the land of the children of Ammon:

16But when Israel came up from Egypt, and walked through the wilderness unto the Red sea, and came to Kadesh;

17Then Israel sent messengers unto the king of Edom, saying, Let me, I pray thee, pass through thy land: but the king of Edom would not hearken thereto. And in like manner they sent unto the king of Moab: but he would not consent: and Israel abode in Kadesh.

18Then they went along through the wilderness, and compassed the land of Edom, and the land of Moab, and came by the east side of the land of Moab, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, but came not within the border of Moab: for Arnon was the border of Moab.

19And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, the king of Heshbon; and Israel said unto him, Let us pass, we pray thee, through thy land into my place.

20But Sihon trusted not Israel to pass through his coast: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and pitched in Jahaz, and fought against Israel.

21And the LORD God of Israel delivered Sihon and all his people into the hand of Israel, and they smote them: so Israel possessed all the land of the Amorites, the inhabitants of that country.

22And they possessed all the coasts of the Amorites, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and from the wilderness even unto Jordan.

23So now the LORD God of Israel hath dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel, and shouldest thou possess it?

24Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.

25And now art thou any thing better than Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab? did he ever strive against Israel, or did he ever fight against them,

26While Israel dwelt in Heshbon and her towns, and in Aroer and her towns, and in all the cities that be along by the coasts of Arnon, three hundred years? why therefore did ye not recover them within that time?

27Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the LORD the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon.

28Howbeit the king of the children of Ammon hearkened not unto the words of Jephthah which he sent him.

29Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.

30And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

31Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

32So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.

33And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

34And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

35And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.

36And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

37And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

38And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.

39And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

40That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

================================================================================

Did I hear god calling out, "No , no , no. Do not sacrifice your beloved daughter to me. This is NOT the kind of thing I approve of?

wirinet:
Huxley,
I still believe firmly, that other people's views, ideas and culture should be respected. And i say if you do not then you are making the same religious fundamentalists are doing, putting yourself on a higher moral, social or intellectual pedestal than your audience. It does not work that way.

Even in the biblical story of Jesus, he did not confront the people or the establishment, he worked within it. He only brough together people of like minds to propagate his views. Same goes for Mohammad, he did not confront Christianity and Judaism that was already establish, he worked within it.

They way to achieve anything is not through your confrontational attitude, you will only breed only anger, resistance and resentment. To make any impact you will need to institutionalize your methods.
By attacking other people's beliefs You are not impacting any knowledge, and you will not gain anything.

As i always say, you should concentrate more educating people about your beliefs and views than concentrating on attacking that of others. Those that would listen would listen and there is nothing you can do for those that will not listen. Even in the scientific community attacking the views of others without expounding your own is frowned at.

Also, it is not possible for people to throw away what they believe from childhood just like that, because Huxley said so. Their lives/ thoughts/dress code/food revolves around their religion, if you take that away without substituting it with an alternative, they would become disoriented, which would be a worse position than when they were a religious fanatic, you might as well kill the person.

Religion is like a very addictive drug, if you suddenly withdraw a drug from someone who has been addicted since childhood, you will kill the individual. You can only withdraw the drug by substituting it with a less harmful drug, before gradually withdrawing it altogether. It takes time, patience and perseverance.

Let me give you an example.

Instead of attacking Pataki, Correct the wrong impression he has about moses writing the book of Genesis, and encourage him to read biblical history. The Author of the book of Genesis (or any other book for that matter is UNKNOWN). Furthermore according to critical analysis, the book of genesis could not have been written by one author due to at least three different writing styles contained in genesis. Also if moses was the author of Genesis, he could not have recorded his own death and post death events.

So you try to educate

Good post, but we have two points of difference. You say other peoples' views should be respected. I say views are not deserving of respect, but people are.

If your general premise was that views should be respected, then the Nigerian tribe that abandoned its twins in the forest should have had their views and beliefs respected by the Christianising evangelist, correct?

The various tribes in the world that practises cannibalism should have their views respected?

Tribes that practise ritual genital mutilation should have this vile belief respected.

Basically, no beliefs or practice should be condemned? On that basis how would humans make progress?


How would you persuade someone to change their view if you do not show them that their current view is wrong? If their existing beliefs and the new beliefs are equally valid, what is the motivation for abandoning the existing beliefs.

I disagree with you views about the methods of Jesus.

Was it not JEsus who entered into the temple and turned over tables?

Was it not Jesus who said he was going to destroy and recreate in three days?

Was it not Jesus who called his opponents hypocrites?

Where do we see Jesus working cooperatively with his opponents?

GOD_LOVES:
According too the Bible there is many ways to offer a living sacrifice, to kill the animal, to give the animal, Putting to death can also mean to separate from something, as we are dead to God until we accept Christ.
Samuel was given as a Sacrifice to God, he was Not killed, but He served God in the Tabernacle, in other words he was given to God as Living Sacrifice, He served God for the rest of his Life and He died in Gods service

We are told to give our lives as a living Sacrifice to God, Not to Go kill are self's, but to serve him with all that we have.

Pardon me please. Can I urge you to think a little? Leviticus was written about 1000 years before the New Testament, at which time offering sacrificial animals and plants to god was the norm. Lev 27:29 clearly says if someone had been dedicated to god, "He must be put to death".

Was this practised 1000 years before Jesus arrived?

Missy B:
Huxley,yhu need Jesus.

Can you try answering the question, rather than mindlessly preaching to me about this impostor from NAzareth?

Many Christians claim the bible was inspired by their god. There is no outside source for this proposition but the bible itself - circular logic there. But is it true that the bible was inspired by god? With god being omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent what would you expect of a piece of work from his hands and mind?

There should be no superlative grand enough to describe the work of such a being. But is that what we find in the bible? Are there any grand truths in the bible? If it is the inspiration of god, how did god transfer his thoughts into the minds of the writers of the bible? Was it thru visions, trances, hallucinations, audible voices, hand-holding, telepathy etc. If this really was the work of god, would you expect the following in god's own work;

1) Falsehood
2) Contradictions
3) Distortions and corruption
4) God ordering massacres, genocide, human sacrifices, cannibalism
5) Almost anything that can be scientifically attested is wrong

What would be your framework for deciding a piece of work as belonging to a given individual? Supposing in 300 years time someone were to discover a piece of writing that purports to be the work of Einstein. How would we go about proving or disproving this as Einstein's work, given that we have copies of his genuine work and we know the high standard of his mind.

Can someone come up with a framework for assessing works that are claimed to be god-inspired? Can this framework be applied to the bible and the Ko-ran?

To my mind, these books are consistent with the minds of primitive bronze-age people with very little knowledge of the reality around them.

davidylan:
No one is telling you to take the christian "argument" as 100% truth. You're free to disbelieve and even thrash the bible if you want, we're just tired of hypocrites like you who come here crying about "religion" when all u really mean is christianity since you're too cowardly to confront the real threat to humanity - islam.

You would like to be left unchallenged in you delusion, right?

Gamine:
Why dosnt this Huxley just go on educating and leave Christianity out of his curriculum

You would like to be left in your delusion, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, because we all live in an interconnected world, having delusional people affects all of us. Even worse where they form the majority in a democratic country, cus they would sheepishly just follow what their pastors tell them. Thus possibly electing a candidate who favours their views, thus affecting everyone else.

GOD_LOVES:
I'm Sorry that I did not answer that,
2.Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God,,

That is how I know the Bible was Inspired by God, and not Santa Clause
I agree

Let us think this thru methodically, as it appears you have not given this statement any thought whatsoever.

All scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God,,

How does god transfer the thoughts in his mind into the minds of the bible writers? Having transfered his thoughts into the minds of the writers how would god ensure that it is exactly his thoughts that are put down on paper (patchment)?

Are god's thoughts transfer thru voice, vision, trance, hallucination, telepathy etc? If one is inspired by god, is the inspiration only momentarily or is it a life-long process?

Supposing it is true that good really did inspire the bible, what quality and standards of truth would you expect to find therein? Would you expect the following;

1) Contradictions
2) Falsehood
3) Distortions and corruption
4) God ordering massacres, genocide, killing of the innocent

If Satan inspired a book could it be worst than the bible?

I think life-long monogamy to the same partner if much too overvalued and overrated. Consider the following;

What is the level of marital infidelity in your community?
What is the main reason for infidelity

Do you think a society designed around communal sharing of partners would ease some of the problems with infidelity?

How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

===================================================================================

Who was Josiah's successor?

2CH 36:1 Jehoahaz

JER 22:11 Shallum
===================================================================================

What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?

MAT 27:28 scarlet

JOH 19:2 purple

==================================================================================
What did they give him to drink?

MAT 27:34 vinegar

MAR 15:23 wine with myrrh

==================================================================================
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Depends where you look; MAT 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and MAR 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."
==================================================================================

davidylan:
You're sinking deeper in your attempt to excuse your despicable cowardice. You CAN navigate the quran if you took just 10% of the time you spend posting 1000 anti-christian threads a minute here to look through it. I never opened a quran until 2 years ago but i can at least hold my own when it comes to certain doctrinal issues with muslims.

You claim to have been raised in the christian tradition, anyone can make that claim. You don't seem know anything about the typical GENUINE christian basd on what i've read from you so far. You can't really navigate the bible beyond posting tired old nonsense that someone else has placed on the internet so spare me.

Make just 2 posts on the islamic thread and lets see how long your username will last, hypocrite. Its easy to point a finger at christianity, we'd only take u in and even feed you so you can go out and burn more bibles.

OK, let me accept you premise - that I am scared of islamicist. There is some truth to that. The last time I started coming down hard on islam I got my username (therationa) banned.

But does that make the Christian arguments right?

davidylan:
You lost my point. There is no one against a battle of ideas when it comes to the bible. Even the bible says . . . come let us reason together. Its nothing new, the pharisees and saducees debated with Christ and He didnt go chasing them with cutlasses.

What is hypocrisy is that huxley seems to have more of an axe to grind with christianity while pretending that islam will just silently go away. Perhaps he is comfortable in the fact that unlike the muslim, the average christian wont be trying to get him banned or looking to kill him.

that is a very puerile excuse. You don't know anything about christianity either, much of what you pretend to know is mainly from reading the texts of fellow atheists like you.

You shld be well aware this is no attempt to muzzle you, as you know many christians here were quite happy to take your questions until it was clear you really werent out for an honest answer.

You forget that I was raised in a Christian tradition and was exposed to the bible from an early age. So it is not hard to know what the typical christian thinks as that is recorded in their reprehensible book called the bible

Equally vile is the koran. However, I cannot navigate my way thru is as fluently as I could with the bible.

GOD_LOVES:
No, he did not write it Himself. He used Humans to do that, but the Holy Ghost was the one who gave those Humans what to write.
God is almighty and with this power he was able to bring together what he needed for is Book or his word.

I asked, "how do you come to know that it was the Holy ghost that inspired the writers"?

Suppose I say, ah, it was not the holy ghost but Santa Clause, how do we get to know who is right?

Turn to Leviticus 27: 29, where god talks about human sacrifice. Are you saying that this is god's word?

I have the same venom for Christianity as I have for Islam. Only I don't know that much about islam. I agree, that is my fault and I should educate myself more on islam.

Are you not aware of this contradiction thread?

You all turn to this website; http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Give me a moment, let me just google bible contradictions.

davidylan:
you hypocrite, why don't you move to the islam section and start your criticism there. Its easy to do so on the christian section no?

How is this hypocrisy?

GOD_LOVES:
huxley

I agree with you that a lot of people have died because of Religion, I am not a friend of Religion, but I have the faith that the Bible teaches us to have, not Religion, faith.

About the verse you quoted:"THOU SHALT NOT SUFFER A WITCH TO LIVE." You must understand the reason for that verse.
The Bible teaches that Magic is from Satan, and its users are Worshipers of Satan. And were Satan is lord there can only be Death and destruction. But Yes many have been killed because people who say thy fallow Christ have misused tha verse to kill innocent people.
But now we (fallowers of christ) are to find those who have went the wrong way and bring them back to the Fold.

CAn you tell me how you come to know that the bible is the word of god. Could god have written a better book?

There is a unwritten consensus that it is impolite to criticize religions and religious beliefs. I think this is plain and simply wrong. In the free market of ideas, religions and religious beliefs should "battle" for acceptable just like any other ideas.

No one by default respects ideas such as Capitalism, Marxism. In fact, the notion of respecting ideologies is wrong and there should be no sacred cows in the intellectual world of ideas.

On the other hand, people are deserving of respect and not the ideas the possess.