₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
Lol so yahweh drowing the whole world as in the op is not sanctioned by the christians... remind why again you are defending that one act of barbarism, saddism and extreme infacticide

We are all entitled to our individual opinions whether they are right or wrong.

johnydon22:
Exactly what ifeann is implying... murder them they will turn bad when they grow..

Dude my comments are not in anyway comparable to the muslim thirst for blood. Whereas the muslim quran contains prescribed commands of murder and jihad , the Old testament contains description of Jewish history.. I am just giving u my view on the event that happened thousands of years ago and is not sanctioned by christainity. Remember I am not an ancient Jew.

Muslims kill infidels because they believe everyone is born a muslim so killing babies born to nonmuslims will take them to baby paradise for their baby 72 virgins. And adult infidels don't deserve to live.

Christianity is all about love and the bible is a collection of manuscripts containing Old law, Jewish history and the gospels as well as God's words.

johnydon22:
How does this answer the question
what concerns Canaan and the flood myth in the op or you just felt like borrowing another one all together..

So drowning the whole earth is justice to you?
Owk ....

U asked;

johnydon22:
So i take it that you are implying those children would have turned bad if allowed to live?

From my reply, clearly my answer is yes and I gave a detailed reason why..


You also said this, apparently u have forgotten.

They are many verses and examples that can be hewn from the bible, killing every inhabitants of a city including women and children, dashing infants on rocks

I decided to start with one of those verses that described the destruction of the cannaite clans eg amorites.


If u think the great flood was a myth then we have no issues here, do we? If u are addressing me, a theist then be polite enough not to call it a myth. Not cool dude.

MrRothstein:
Your response has just too many implications but i'll settle for 3. 1)Determinism: The standard theistic rhetoric is that we are all designed inherently with the freewill to make choices.unless you don't subscribe to this you'd realize that a foreknowledge of what those kids would become in future(and especially knowing that they would become evil!)implies that they lack the ability to effect this future pre-emptively,hence can't be blamed for whatever that future brings,atleast not by a 'loving god'. 2).omnipotence: The famous omnipotence!.I define omnipotence as the ability to be able to bring about all possible outcomes of an event.An omnipotent being should be able to cause an event such that every person that exists should be good and hence avoid the flood(i don't feel particularly uncomfortable about the deterministic nature of this argument,seeing as you have implicitely implied it).But ofcourse omnipotence may also mean that he can bring about a mutually exclusive event such that everyone that exists has freewill and still choose to be good,hence avoiding the flood. 3).what does it say about someone who knows the details of a future event(that said event would include suffering for those participating in it) yet proceeds to bring it about?i'll leave you to answer Your response has just too many implications but i'll settle for 3. 1)Determinism: The standard theistic rhetoric is that we are all designed inherently with the freewill to make choices.unless you don't subscribe to this you'd realize that a foreknowledge of what those kids would become in future(and especially knowing that they would become evil!)implies that they lack the ability to effect this future pre-emptively,hence can't be blamed for whatever that future brings,atleast not by a 'loving god'. 2).omnipotence: The famous omnipotence!.I define omnipotence as the ability to be able to bring about all possible outcomes of an event.An omnipotent being should be able to cause an event such that every person that exists should be good and hence avoid the flood(i don't feel particularly uncomfortable about the deterministic nature of this argument,seeing as you have implicitely implied it).But ofcourse omnipotence may also mean that he can bring about a mutually exclusive event such that everyone that exists has freewill and still choose to be good,hence avoiding the flood. 3).what does it say about someone who knows the details of a future event(that said event would include suffering for those participating in it) yet proceeds to bring it about?i'll leave you to answer that.

I don't understand why u did the copy and paste thing twice in one comment.


I as a thiest is of the view that all humans have freewill, however God is all knowing, omniscient to the point we humans may infer predestination.

I am not into philosophy and didn't pay too much attention to it in school but My opinion on this
is that if we as humans are purely predestined by an omnipotent and omniscient being then we can all be "programmed" to do Good. But freewill is what makes us do bad. Hence an omnipotent and omniscient God can tell what we will do with our freewill...this is why the bible is filled with prophecies.

Perhaps as I study this my understanding will evolve but this is my view at the moment.

DProDG:
So you're implying that our lives are predetermined? ie, no freewill?

I don't think I implied no freewill.. I believe we have freewill and at the same time God is all knowing.

mmsen:
The same people who claim that these children who were murdered by god because they would have grown up to become evil are the first ones to get angry when someone brings up abortion.

If u abort then u are playing god, Steve job's mom was in a position to abort Steve after she got preganant and had to drop out of school.. I and several millions enjoy their Ipod, iphone, macs etc because she didn't make the decision to abort.

Euthanasia, GMOs, eugenics are also other example of man playing god. Not a good idea. This is very different from the OPs argument.

johnydon22:
So i take it that you are implying those children would have turned bad if allowed to live?

“As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live”(Ez. 33.11).

The bible tells the reader that God does not delight in the death of the wicked. He gave the amorites 400 years of Grace to change, being ominipotent my guess is that God knew that they will not change but he was not quick to bring his judgement upon them.

Here is his message to Abraham;
“Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. . . . And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites [one of the Canaanite clans] is not yet complete”(Gen. 15. 13, 16).


So for 400 years the amorites continued in their iniquity and villainy. Babies where born who grew up to follow the evil footsteps of their parents. For 400 years, its fair to say this people made up their mind to be evil as a culture.


Think of it! God stays His judgement of the Canaanite clans 400 years because their wickedness had not reached the point of intolerability! This is the long-suffering God we know in the Hebrew Scriptures. He even allows his own chosen people to languish in slavery for four centuries before determining that the Canaanite peoples are ripe for judgement and calling His people forth from Egypt.


By the time of their destruction, Canaanite culture was, in fact, debauched and cruel, embracing such practices as ritual prostitution and even child sacrifice. The Canaanites are to be destroyed“that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God”(Deut. 20.18).

God had morally sufficient reasons for His judgement upon Canaan, and Israel was merely the instrument of His justice, just as centuries later God would use the pagan nations of Assyria and Babylon to judge Israel.

People have a misconception about God's approach to justice. He is forgiving, loving but he is also just.

Johnny I am not going to go bring out bible verses explaining what lead to those decisions. But I will give my take on the "innocent children"

Remember most theists believes that God knows our beginning and end. If God all ready knows what the children will become why won't he make his decision to end them before they become that.

the isis fighters, jihad john, Mohammed, hitler, Osama, tartar9 were once children But they grew up to be death loving people.


•Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

yazach:
lol!! Does this mean you are exposed cornered and accept defeat or you are starting your usual act "formula dodge it"
Don't forget you are yet to give me a definition for MAN and WOMAN on the other thread

We can discuss religion but I am not here to teach u what a man and woman is.. If u didn't learn that in biology class or even common sense then that's ur loss. U should have payed attention in school.

[quote author=kay1one2 post=31735246][/quote]kay1one2 I see how bold u are in discussing topics Muslims like to hide, but can't u see how 9jaforlife is making u bring yourself to his level and insult like a muslim.
He may have insulted ur with unprintable words but don't retaliate. 9jaforlife was not a product of beastality, this is biologically impossible. His family maybe Good folks hence ur attack on them is not fair.. besides do u think Jesus would approve of this

I know u are passionate about exposing the falsehood of Islam, especially as many nigerians see the death and destruction Islam has brought to fellow northern nigerians. But these insults are unnecessary.. Be better than him and conquer the temptations of the folks of darkness.

nortcentrallord:
. Of what use is the their useless certificate is to you? You are far more enlightened and intelligent than the whole nation of islam combined. Trust me, a whole lot of these blinded brainwashed practising religion called muslims on this forum never go back to their imams to ask because they are scared of the truth.

.. Thanks buddy..

I don't know why Muslims need to go to school to undersatnd the quran which says over and over again that it is a clear book and easy to understand. It is a very short book and repeats the same thing over and over again. Mostly about fighting non believers and the punishment of hell for not accepting the Islamic Mohammed and his quranic allah.

A load of contradictions and abrogations, s.ex and murder and plenty nonsense in between.

nortcentrallord:
the poor dude is sliding into depression. That was how mohamed started. Good thing is, in the 21st century, he cant dare put those into practice in the secular world except in retarded areas where their likes lurk behind closed doors and dark corners.

Lol..yes u are correct, Islam thrives in darkness, lies and deceit.

Do u how weak their arguments are..
How insecure Muslims are.. They use lies all the time. When u scatter the lies and AL Taqiyya they start insulting.

I think they have realised insults mean nothing to me hence they have reduced the rude comments.
I have seen ur attempts to show Muslims the dangers of Islam and the true Mohammed. Good job man.

basilico:
Muslims unfortunately follow a deluded narcissistic ,7th century prophet.
After reading so much about that Islam founder I concluded that he was just a clever guy who knew his follower could do what he wanted.And believe any of his fairy tales.
Just to digress (accept my apologies). On the night he supposedly flew a mythical horse to al aqsa (and not to be confused with Jerusalem) he had disappeared in Mecca or maybe Medina and gone to sleep,( I suspect have sex ) with a woman he had admired for long.
When they found him at her place he came up with a story about how he had been flown to Jerusalem 900 miles away overnight and ascended to Allah's Paradise .

Actually i understand the story says it was a donkey he flew with.
Jesus came into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey hence Muslims have to claim that Mohammed flew on the back of a donkey..

Moses split the red sea to save the Jews hence Muslims have to claim Mohammed split the moon just for fun.
Looool.. Islam is crazy man.

9jaforlife:
Dem don dey wash their mouths....

Islam doesn't forbid having dogs o! Muslims have dogs all over the world. As long as they're properly trained. It is even mentioned in the Quran that we can eat foods that dogs catch in hunting...

Q5:4 "They ask thee what is lawful to them (as food). Say: lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure: and what ye have taught your trained hunting animals (dogs, to catch) in the manner directed to you by Allah: eat what they catch for you, but pronounce the name of Allah over it: and fear Allah; for Allah is swift in taking account"

There was another Quranic verse in which dogs were mentioned in positive manner.

Q18:18 "And thou wouldst have deemed them waking though they were asleep, and We caused them to turn over to the right and the left, and their dog stretching out his paws on the threshold. If thou hadst observed them closely thou hadst assuredly turned away from them in flight, and hadst been filled with awe of them"

Yes ur quran allows dogs for hunting, if u read my OP u would have seen where it is stated. U will also see where it is said allah forgave a woman all her sins for giving a dog water to drink..

What u choose to do was to ignore all the other instances and verses I gave that ur quran and hadiths says dogs are evil and should not be allowed inside homes, angels don't enter a house with a dog in it, that dogs be killed etc.. Islamic countries have a tiny tiny population of dogs if any, but do some Muslims keep dogs?? Yes, they do, a significant minority of Muslims don't read the quran, some still don't take it too serious even if they read it... One command says dogs are unclean and the next says animals biten by dogs during a hunt can be eaten?

Mohammed kept contracting himself in various topics including this one. This is one reason I think he was bipolar.

Here is ur zakir naik 's opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnHU0p198Q

The testimonies are so powerful. Too bad a lot of them become atheists or agnostics... I guess the shock makes them feel betrayed by religion. Anyway everyone has the right to free will....Except Muslims, its Islamic allah's/ Mohammed's totalitarianism or u burn after your Head is chopped off...

Empiree:
Then keep "your knowledge" of islam with you. Do you have a certificate at least formal elementary studies on Islam?. If answer is no, then you know nothing.

I have better things to do than share a room with dirty bearded wiffe beaters reciting 7th century Arabic.

Empiree:
^ if i did not mention your moniker means I dont need your attention. Simple, isnt?. What Mr. Shaw said whether it's bogus or authentic is not relevant to me at all. If you and allnaijablogger want to die over that so be it. Keep yourself busy over irrelevancies.

@allnaijablogger, got u. You are very deceptive. And what exactly her screenshot she exposed, i just dont get it. And why are you now advising her to stop copy paste from anti-islam websites, after your lies are busted?. Keep it up

I don't care what B. Shaw says, I can never post what someone says about Christianity as a point to defend Christianity.

But u Muslims post what this ordinary human says to defend Islam and when I showed u its a fabrication then all of a sudden u don't care what he says. His only recorded opinion of Islam suddenly turns ur belly.
Wooow.. Empiree u are deluded.

AllNaijaBlogger:
There are better ways to address your issues against islam. I have never been banned or gotten into trouble with the islam section.


The best thing to do is to let decepticons like Empiree talk themselves into a web of lies that they built for themselves.


Also, you can please stop copying and pasting stuff from anti-islamic sites. But I love how you screenshot Empiree, Rilwayne and co's comments to expose them.

Thanks dude but I need to add this;

I put a lot of hard work typing and compiling my information...this eats up a lot of my free time. Yes I also share stuff I see both from PRO Islamic and anti Islamic sites but this is not the norm...

even when I copy and paste I admit it and post the link to encourage more people to learn about Islam from those sites, there was this particular topic of why Muslims don't wear neck ties, Muslims came in insulting me claiming anti Islamic nonsense but I got it from a PRO Islamic site.. When I pointed this out they kept insulting nonetheless.

When I first started posting stuff on nairaland I didn't know it could be deleted because Muslims got upset at the information in there sources and I didn't save a lot of what I typed. They are lost but I am wiser.

I have never posted in the Islamic section because I try not to offend people... Yet my topics were moved there, when I complained I got banned.. I have screen shots if u want evidence

Empiree:
Honestly, you dont make any sense. Believe that. I thought you wanted to come up with "empiree lied about islamic theology" and then you showed the proof. If you had done this, i would believe you but you came up with this nonsense?. So that means if i'd posted Michael Hart's "100 Most Influential People", you would have said that's a lie too, right?. I was going to post that and I will soon.

I posted article about atheist who embarrassed islam, you called it propaganda. We refuted many of ifea's posts, you called it 'taqqiyah-lies". So what exactly you people want to believe?. Yet you believe nonsense she posted without cross checking with scholars of islam...their opinion on it. Instead you told me she lectures me on my religion. You silently and quietly follow her. And at the same time telling me not to 'trash' Christianity. Dont even think for a second that i am stupid.

Now you said many things she copied/posted from those White guys' websites are true. I hail thee with your hypocrisy. You'all can say whatever. Whether Bernard Shaw praised Islam is still none of your business. There are many non-muslims who praised Islam.

Someone just opened a thread on christian section about verse of Qur'an written at the entrance of one of the famous universities in US. You gonna say that'a propaganda as well?. Listen, these are just few of the signs of Islam's claims to truth. It's all around us.

Tell me when did you and others including ifea herself ever for once agreed with many of our refutations against you folks?. I say zero. That's called bigotry. You love to defend and justify barbaric incidents in your Bible but when we tried to defend ours you freaking people said we lied. So if we can not talk, what is it to talk about that you folks will believe?

Here again is the quote attributed to Bernard Shaw

Why am i lying if the quote is all over the net?. It's my handiwork or you think i forged it?. It's everywhere on the internet with less proof which i dont worry myself over nor did i care what Mr. Shaw thought about islam. If he indeed praised Islam, it's only complimentary. It doesnt reduce or add anything to our prophet's status. Our prophet's status is raised in the Quran itself. Anything else is either bogus, fallacy or ulterior motives.

Do you even know that in Michael Hart's 100 most influential people, Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) that you worship or revere so much ranked 4th. He ranked Apostle Paul 2nd most influential. He ranked prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) #1. Christian theologians asked him why he ranked Jesus below Paul?, he said because Jesus did not write any Book in the Bible but Paul not only did he write Books in the Bible but created Christianity in the name of Jesus.

This Mr. Hart's statement is very correct. So if i'd posted this before now, you would tell me it's propaganda, lies, taqqiya, right?. You people have given taqqiyah a new definition. There are millions of Muslims who dont even know what taqqiyah is, never heard of it yet you accused us of it. Shaking my head for you. Grow up

Please when u discuss me mention be decent enough to say the truth..

Bernard shaw is entitled to his opinon but apparently u didn't know that he never said those words. Its a fraud like ur prophet. He despised Islam.
I lifted the information off a site that destories Islamic lies with evidence. Enjoy

George Bernard Shaw(July 26, 1856 – November 2, 1950) was anIrishplaywright and a co-founder of the London School of Economics. He was anatheistand ardent socialist, who wrote many brochures and speeches for the Fabian Society. He is the only person to have been awarded both a Nobel Prize inLiterature(1925) and an Oscar (1938), for his contributions to literature and for his work on the film Pygmalion (adaptation of his play of the same name), respectively.[1]
A quote attributed to him, praising ProphetMuhammadas the "Savior of Humanity" who would have succeeded in solving all the world's problems if he "were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world", can be found posted all over the Internet. It has even been used by Muslims in a major "anti-Islamophobia" ad campaign inAustralia. The reference provide for this quote isThe Genuine Islam.
However, according to the International Shaw Society treasurer Richard F Dietrich, who had compiled a complete list of Shaw's works,The Genuine Islamis "bogus".[2]No such book exists. The origin of this hoax is an interview between Shaw andMuslim propagandistMaulana Mohammed Abdul Aleem Siddiqui published in a Muslim periodical in January 1936.
Rachel Baxendale of The Australian explained, "[The Muslim periodical] contains a quotation which describes Mohammed as the "saviour of humanity" and Islam as having "wonderful vitality" and "the chance to rule of Britain, nay Europe, in the next hundred years", but these are not recorded as the words of Shaw. The quotation appears in a separate quotation box without attribution, and not in the main body of the interview. However, the main body of the interview does feature Shaw challenging Siddiqui from a rationalist perspective."[2]
As with many of thesefabrications, the truth is the opposite of what is claimed. The International Shaw Society treasurer pointed out that Shaw described the religion ofIslamin a 1933 letter to the Rev. Ensor Walters in the following way:
Islam is very different, beingferociously intolerant. What I may call Manifold Monotheism becomes in the minds of very simple folk an absurdly polytheistic idolatry, just as European peasants not only worship Saints and the Virgin as Gods, but will fight fanatically for their faith in the ugly little black doll who is the Virgin of their own Church against the black doll of the next village. When the Arabs had run this sort of idolatry to such extremes [that] they did this without black dolls and worshipped any stone that looked funny,Mahomet rose up at the risk of his life and insulted the stones shockingly, declaring that there is only one God, Allah, the glorious, the great… And there was to be no nonsense about toleration.You accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell

AllNaijaBlogger:
Have you seen me arguing on the Islam section? Have you seen me insulting your prophet?


If you have an issue with Ifeann, take it up with her. While I do not agree with her incendiary approach, there are few things she says that are right. I don't always agree with her, especially when she copies and pastes.


You, on the other hand, have been caught lying about your religion numerous times. You are also a copy and paster.

Please think we'll before you categorise me as an islamophobe.

Wow.. Dude incendiary approach Really...
Examples please so I can correct this, perhaps my enthusiasm got the better of me.


U claim u are not an "islamophobe".. I am an "islamophobe".... I can't imagine what would happen if Muslims took over the worlds affairs, its scary to imagine. Do u know that there is a scandal in Denmark where Muslims banned Christmas celebration. Because they were a majority on local board, https://creepingsharia./2012/11 /09/denmark-muslim-majority-on-local-board- christmas-tradition-canceled/


My topic explaining the very logical reason why islamophobe is not bigoted was deleted after it was moved to the Islamic section...

Empiree:
You not gonna change. I'd rather let you be cuz if i talk much, you go vex me. That i have been caught lying about Islam and yet you have no idea what Christianity is needless to say Islam is demeaning. That you dont always agree with her is fallacy. You did contrary when you said she's lecturing us about our religion. No, i dont think you are islamophobe. I think you are a lazy man. Goodluck pal

As an "islamophobe" who has studied isalm for some time now, I am Shocked at the commands in the quran and hadiths. i want to say that u know little about ur religion or maybe u are just ignorant or perhaps use AL TAQIYYA as encouraged by the quran.