₦airaland Forum

Peacefullove:
Say I don't know Or am ignorance of what am talking about next time , not giving dubious excuses .


You said Jesus is Gods only son because he shared same nature with God

With that single point, do you now agree Jesus is not the only son of God since many other humans will share Gods divine nature too ?

Are those humans Uncreated because they share same nature with God ?

So simple, defend your statement by answering these

Continue the argument with ur private part

Peacefullove:
Are you scared ni

Define begotten ?

Am waiting




Learner

Even your Bible confirm it that humans will share the Divine nature of God too .


Going by your silly definition of what begotten is, , Can we now say this humans are uncreated so far they share Gods divine nature ?

Secondly, since having the divine nature is the meaning of begotten according to you .. Does that mean Jesus wasn't even only begotten son ?



Am waiting .

Scared ??....funny... I just dnt have this time going round circles with u...so have fun..

removetheturban:
What is your definition of begotten?
Is there any Bible reference to support your answer?

I will always clear ur doubt ur a learner.

John uses begotten in John 3 :16 to show Jesus as uniquely God's Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God's sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

removetheturban:
So, was wisdom formed before the beginning or after the beginning?

Stop asking me wen wisdom was formed, read it I'm verse 23. The answer u seek is there

Peacefullove:
fear dey catch you ni . let's proceed

Isaac was also called the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of Abraham , and Abraham did this by virtue of sexual inter course . fine

How is Jesus begotten ? By Sex or Creation ?

I need answer guys

Jesus is eternally begotten of the Father..... Begotten not made. If Isaac was called Abraham only begotten son, what relationship has tht got to do with Jesus??

bloodofthelamb:
You believe everything that was made came through JESUS. That should also include JESUS himself if you also believe that JESUS is a created being.

According to your logic JEHOVAH made JESUS with JESUS.

Jesus was not created, dnt try to be smart by half

removetheturban:
Okay. Let me do this in a way that you can grasp it.

Me: I told you that Jesus was the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22
You: You said that Jesus was not the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22. You said that it was Wisdom and not Jesus.You asked me to read verse one again for clarification.
Me: I said that verse one not only mentioned Wisdom but also Discernment. I asked you to choose between Wisdom and Discernment.
You: You chose Wisdom and got support from 2 or 3 other Trinitarians. You raised the issue of in the beginning
Me: I asked you if Wisdom was created before the beginning
You: You cited a Bible version that used at the beginning in Proverbs 8:23. You felt victorious in your heart and went on insisting over the phrase 'at the beginning'.
Me: I quoted Proverbs 8:27 and in that verse, it clearly stated that Jesus was made before the heavens.
You: probably search all the Bible versions and did not find that could twist the meaning to look fairly Trinitarians. Proverbs 8:27 nailed you and you and the other 2 or 3 commenters gave up.

Now, your focus is damage control by shifting the blame. I have always told you that Jesus is the one mentioned in Proverbs 8.
The pieces of evidence that Jesus was the one in the picture are numerous. Need I say he was beside the father, he was a master worker or God was pleased with him? The Bible also said that everything came through him. So, before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1, Jesus had been created as the first of Jehovah's works. He is the only one created by Jehovah and raised up by Jehovah.

The Bible said that he is the first of the dead but Dairus daughter, the widow's son, Lazarus etc had already experienced the resurrection. In all, Jehovah used people to achieve that. In the case of Jesus, Jehovah himself raised him up. Subsequently, Jesus will raise the dead during the resurrection to the glory of Jehovah.

Mark 1:1 says the beginning of the good news ABOUT Jesus. But before Jesus was born, he said that the law and the prophets all directed toward him.

That gives you an understanding of the Bible's use of "the beginning".

Stop trying to circumvent, we all live and learn. Simply state that you learned something that you didn't know. No shame in learning.

“I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.

This verse clearly points out who is speaking in proverbs 8.

Proverbs 8:23 puts all this ur speculation, twisting, assumptions to bed. Lemme quote again

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

I was formed at d beginning. So every thing the follows 23, happend after wisdom was formed.not before. Stop deceiving urself

Peacefullove:
What exactly is this Silly talk all about ?

Your Bible apply son of God to angels, to man, to Jesus himself. So what's the issue with silence as if son of God never exist anywhere in your Bible ?

We all know if someone is a SON of another, it means that person born them and that's through Sexual intercourse most times.

Why is Jesus and the angels called Son of God, in what sense are they sons ... By virtue of sex or Creation ?

Reply with sense . am asking something very logical , Only a faint mind not sure of his beliefs will evade this. Vital

There are sons of God BT there is only one begotten son of God.....pls dnt say nonsense cos u wanna win an argument....'begotten' not made

Al jazera spread propaganda cos of what nah, thus sip program of this administration is going on smoothly.........no mago Mayo...let's commend the president for tht. But criticize him n d area of security

As dem dey talk cee c matter make we dey vote

[quote author=solite3 post=66779525][/quote]Leave tht guy, let him wallow in his ignorance. The man doesn't know what personification is after all his years in school. His parents wasted his education fees

TeamNina una dey here, make una dey vote o..we want make statement o...Nina nation worldwide is voting nonstop..do not be discouraged.

removetheturban:
Okay! You can go to the collection center to receive your trophy

Keep kwayet der, I whopped u in ur on thread.... Kai!!!....jwsare the greatest lairs ever,a lying cheap secret occultic org founded by a free mason american

removetheturban:
If at your age and level of exposure you need google to construct basic sentences or decide on points that you have already posted on a public forum, I cannot help but advise you to substantiate all other comments that you have posted on this website and match them with your Google findings.
You think that I am brainwashed. Is that part of your Google finding?

We are talking about the Bible's teaching here and all you came up with is "I am not so far of then". We need to show respect to the word of God and not suppose or guess the truth.

Jesus said that he gave us the word exactly as he received it from God. We have the word and we cannot callously say that we are not far from the Truth.

Show some respect and do not treat the word of God with profanity
Proverbs 8:27 got you cornered, buddy. You just cannot get beyond that. You should submit that you were wrong and own up to the Truth. Let us be civilized here at least. This is not children section. It is a forum for adults to discuss religion and I want to believe that you have completed your high school, to say the least.
Get your spelling right for better comprehension.

Hahahahha.....the fact tht u have resulted to insults says a lot.......hahahahahahhaha.......

removetheturban:
I mean, your grammar is exasperating. No disrespect but you can upgrade. It is excruciating to my eyes. Just stop! I just can't continue. Seriously, I didn't read this.

Hahaha....satan has been defeated. He has turned it to a matter of grammar. Is thus an issue of grammar??...how will u read it wen its d truth, the truth is bitter I know. Hide ur head in shame, I have just bursted ur lie and I have proven tht ur faith is all a lie

removetheturban:
For reference, I will post your previous comment that led to mine below. Now, tell me if you can see the boldened above. Would you want to change that preposition or go ahead with it? Remember that you can see the receipt of your comment if you scroll to your previous comments.
I wouldn't mind getting a free lecture in the English language.
And my question still stands.

Did Proverbs 8:23 says 'at the beginning' and not 'in the beginning'.

Can you reconcile the two prepositions?

Proverbs 8:27
From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth

So, was Wisdom before the heavens or after the heavens? (remember that the heavens signal the beginning)

Let me explain better. If I say I came to work in the morning, am I correct, yes I am. But can I say I came to work at d morning??... Tht would be bad English.

U asked to explain y d preposition at was used instead of in
Ans: Because the writer of proverbs was trying to be very specific so tht pple like u wouldn't misinterpret and lie to protect ur useless believe tht proverbs 8 was talking about Jesus.

Now lemme explain.back to my example
I came to work in d morning:I am not specifying what time in d morning. Came to work...it could be 7am, 8am, 8:55am etc.

But when I want to be specific, I will use at
I came to work at 8:59am. ....specifying the exact time I came to work in d morning.


So also d writer of proverbs is helping u specify the exact time wisdom was created... Which is at the very beginning.

Conclusion: I dnt expect u to accept this, because ur mind is closed and accepting it is accepting tht proverbs 8 is no where talking bout Jesus, which will shake ur faith tremendously because it is the lie JW has sold to u all these yl. Anyways u can continue fighting with urself. Because if this cannot help u, den ur irredeemable

removetheturban:
For reference, I will post your previous comment that led to mine below. Now, tell me if you can see the boldened above. Would you want to change that preposition or go ahead with it? Remember that you can see the receipt of your comment if you scroll to your previous comments.
I wouldn't mind getting a free lecture in the English language.
And my question still stands.

Did Proverbs 8:23 says 'at the beginning' and not 'in the beginning'.

Can you reconcile the two prepositions?

Proverbs 8:27
From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth

So, was Wisdom before the heavens or after the heavens? (remember that the heavens signal the beginning)

I am not a English graduate, but I will use in the beginning if I am to describe a series of event or scenarios. But if I am to describe one event I will use at d beginning, but both are valid, referring to the start of time, an event etc.

Lemme google n c if I am correct cos I might not be

They are valid but not interchangeable. I think the most important difference is that "in the beginning" seems to be an expression describing a whole period of time, while "at the beginning" more literally describes a single moment in time, similar to the difference between saying "in the morning" and "at 8 am.

I am not so far of then

U have been brain washed, even if u c the truth in ur face u will still twist it to suit the lie u have taken to be ur own truth. I dnt blame u doh. I just hope u will see d light on time.

As for proverbs 8:27 u put up den and d question u asked, the answer lies in proverbs 8:23, which I have already stated. I was formed at d very beginning.

By the way if u have nytyn to refute proverbs 8:23, pls say so......tell me what at d very beginning means to u.........negate the truth I have put in your very eyes, if u cannot den keep kwayet and hide urself in shame

removetheturban:
Even if you use the worst of Bible translation to project heresy, the Greek scripture will reveal the lie. In this very case, you want to act smart but here we go.
Proverbs 8:23 says at the beginning and not in the beginning.

Can you reconcile the two prepositions?

Tell me how you can run away from Proverbs 8:27
From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth

So, was Wisdom before the heavens? (remember that the heavens signal the beginning)

Here are your points:
In the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth.
Wisdom is speaking in Proverbs chapter 8 and not Jesus
Wisdom did not exist before the heavens and the earth.
Proverbs 8:23 says at the beginning and not before the earth.

Verse 23 uses the word very specifically. I was formed at d very beginning. So u now want me to lecture u in English languag e. I have pointed out ur error, if u choose not to see the truth, feel free.

removetheturban:
Okay. Are you seeing how you got yourself cornered?
Proverbs 8:22 says a person (I) was produced. You said that it was Wisdom. In verse 1 it talks about Wisdom and Discretion and you had a hard time choosing which it is.

You said it was wisdom that was created in verse 22.

verses 23 and 27 says that the same person talking in verse 22 that you referred to as Wisdom was created before the heavens and the earth.

Here you are saying that Wisdom was never created before the beginning.

How do you reconcile that?

Cake!!!

I cannot corner myself, u wish it for me to kip up with ur lies

23 I was formed long ages ago,
[b]at the very beginning[\b], when the world came to be.

At the very beginning, is what the bible says not bfre the beginning....

removetheturban:
Okay, let us flow with your logic. Proverbs 8:22 Was wisdom CREATED before the beginning (before the creation of the heaven and the earth)?

Wisdom was not created bfre d beginning oga

removetheturban:
To your delight, Proverbs chapter 8:1 Is not wisdom calling out?

Is not discernment raising its voice?
(verse 1 talks about wisdom and discernment. So, which do you want to grip as we move along?)

Lemme help u

Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.[a]
6 Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are upright to those who have found knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.[b]
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep

Is it not clear from verse 1 tht this verse is clearly talking about wisdom. Look at verse 12, he says I, wisdom dwell together with prudence.

Look at verse two :
At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, [b]she[\b] takes her stand;

If its not clear to u from the preceding verses tht the writer is only personifying wisdom n not talking about Jesus in anyway then u have a problem, do u know what it is....lemme me tell u!!!!




U have been brain washed to believe nything

removetheturban:
That is why the Bible called Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN son.

Have you ever wondered why he is called the only begotten son of God?

Every other thing created was through Jesus but Jesus was begotten by God himself.

The only one to have that title "begotten" is Jesus.

So, being a master worker, Jesus learned from Jehovah God and through him, every other thing both in heaven and on earth were created.

If you are referring to the beginning, the beginning of what?
Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,

The earliest of his achievements of long ago.+

23 From ancient times* I was installed,

From the start,

Was the Bible lying? When Jesus was on earth did he discredit this scripture? No! Nevertheless, he corroborated by saying the words in

John 8:28...I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him

Proverbs 8:30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day

Pls quote proverbs 8 from verses 1 and burst ur own lie urself