solite3:
my question is directed to you because you said wisdom was created

solite3:
first of all proverb 8:22 is not saying wisdom was created because wisdon is not part of God's works.

solite3:

John 1:1 use a definite atrticle 'The' and 'beginning' without any object to it. To tell u ' The beginning' as used there is the ultimate beginning.
John could have said ' in the beginning of the heaven and eath the word was.. But he said in the beginning was the word.

removetheturban:
So, what or who was created there?
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Mark spoke of the beginning and Jesus said in Luke 24:44 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.”

How do you reconcile that with Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 1:1?

You started this issue before the other commenter alluded to your theory. Can you give answers to my questions?

removetheturban:
Can you quote where I said that wisdom was created?

Why would you choose to blaspheme against me?

[quote author=removetheturban post=66794061]Since your question is directed at me, can we both clear this thing up in a non-argumentative manner?

I never said that Wisdom was created. You fellow Trinitarian said that. They were about two of them insisting that Proverbs 8:22 referred to wisdom. If you go through the conversation you will see everything play out. I told him that Proverbs 8:22 referred to Jesus but he disagreed because of his belief in the Trinity.

It is not about what you know or what you have been taught but about what the Bible truly contains. Jesus was created by Jehovah before the beginning as I had already explained to you and he helped to create everything else. That is why the Bible referred to him in 1 Corinthians 15:20 as the firstfruit of those fallen asleep in death. He was raised up by God, and through him, others will be raised up.

Now, let me ask you. Who is talking in Proverbs 8:22?

removetheturban:
So, what or who was created there?
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Mark spoke of the beginning and Jesus said in Luke 24:44 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.”

How do you reconcile that with Proverbs 8:22 and Genesis 1:1?

You started this issue before the other commenter alluded to your theory. Can you give answers to my questions?

removetheturban:
have you ever wondered why that verse is historically termed heretical? Have you ever googled that verse to discover why it is controversial?
Well, breaking news! That verse is not found anywhere in the original Greek scripture. It was inserted into the scriptures by heretics who thwart the word of God to suit the doctrines of men.
Check! Take the time to embrace the truth.

I wonder how many more "heretical verses" like that have been inserted into the Bible.

solite3:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John says that in the beginning Jesus was. If Jesus was the first to be created this would contradict the above verse .

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Sayqqi

Peacefullove:
@ solite3 , Can you tell me why Jesus is called son of God a title belonging to created being's if he was not created?

Peacefullove:


According to the same bible in Revelation 3 vs 14 , Yeshua is the beginning OF CREATION of God ,

Do you now accept your Bible contradicts itself?

Am waiting for how you gonna save yourself from these.

Peacefullove:


Very funny.

Solite3 and others , why are you running away from these ?

I hope they reply to that question, Jahs willing I would be around as well

Barristter07:

Peacefullove
Actually there is nothing contradictory with the said scripture , John 1:3 should be properly rendered ' all other things ' Since as you also indicate the scripture said Christ himself is the begginning of Creation by God [ to be the beginning of something indicates he was part of that thing which in this case is Creation ]

Good afternoon Sir

@ removetheturban .. Your efforts are appreciated

Magnoliaa:

I wonder how many more "heretical verses" like that have been inserted into the Bible.

solite3:
why do you proof text.
You selected proverb 8:22- 30 out and said it was Jesus speaking why didn't you start from verse 1 and let's know who is talking.

solite3:

Jesus created All other things in other words he didn't create all things.

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Barristter07:

Peacefullove




Actually there is nothing contradictory with the said scripture , John 1:3 should be properly rendered ' all other things ' Since as you also indicate the scripture said Christ himself is the begginning of Creation by God [ to be the beginning of something indicates he was part of that thing which in this case is Creation ]

Good afternoon Sir




@ removetheturban .. Your efforts are appreciated

removetheturban:
If you want to hold on to verse one I will advise you to read it again because it speaks of Wisdom and Discernment. Those are 'two' qualities. Which do you want to go with?

The pieces of evidence that Jesus was the one in the picture are numerous. Need I say he was beside the father, he was a master worker or God was pleased with him? Should we make references to prove those as well?

Jesus was seen at the side of the father and the Greek scripture confirms that. He said no one else has seen the father except him (wisdom and discernment or the Holy Spirit was not mentioned)

Has the Holy Spirit seen the father? John 1:18 If everything came from God THROUGH Jesus, can't you see that Jesus is the mediator and not the giver? Ephesians 3:15 said that Jesus owes his name to God.

If Jesus owes his name to God does it not mean that Jesus owes his existence to him?

Before dying on earth, in who did Jesus entrust his Spirit?

To who does the Bible say that the spirit returns in Ecclesiastes 12:7?

And who GAVE that spirit?
Now, let me ask you. Who is talking in Proverbs 8:22?
start from verse 1 you will know I said that Jesus was the one talking. You can tell me who is talking since you disagree with me. Is it Wisdom talking or Discernment talk? Be forthright!

solite3:

This below is what you said
Proverbs 8:30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.

The one who is beside God as a master worker is the one same one who said that he was produced. No Bible version could lie about that. It is a factual fact. The same person who is the earliest achievement of God is the one beside him.

Hairyrapunzel:



Wisdom is a woman who is crying at the city gates. You can't take proverbs 8:22 literally and the other verses figuratively. You either do all figuratively or take it literally.

The person talking said wisdom is a woman.

removetheturban:
A handful! Well, they cannot go too far because other verses expose them. And the sad truth is that they were not the first to translate the Bible so the Hebrew and Greek scripts and the earliest translations of the Bible into other languages will always unveil their egregiousness.

The biggest evidence of disgrace happened when the father of all heresy in the history of Bible translation, the KJB owned up their heinous ploy to vanish the divine name, JEHOVAH.

The KJB has been the threshold for Trinitarians for centuries, using those verses to deceive millions of innocent souls. Now that they have restored the name, other Trinitarians have suddenly claimed that the KJB is not accurate and they have massively produced many new Bible versions to delight their fellow Trinitarians and fool the gullible souls.

The KJB replaced the divine name, JEHOVAH about 7000 times. Did you hear me properly? About 7000 times! The name appears more than any other name EVER in the Bible.

The name was erased and replaced with the LORD. What a crime against Jehovah God and Jesus who said that he came to tell us EXACTLY what Jehovah told him. Not his own word, but that of his father.

Moses knew the value of that name and he begged that God revealed the name to us. Jesus in John 17:6, 26 said that he has made Jehovah's name known to us. The name that Jehovah gave to Moses. Nevertheless, if you may check the above verses on Biblehub and you will be surprised how some Trinitarian Bible removed NAME from the verses. It surely proves something to you, doesn't it?

Guess what! Exactly 400 years after the replacement of the divine name, Jehovah from the Bible and replaced it with the LORD the KJB has finally restored the name to the KJB.

The Israelites were captives for 400 years in Egypt and after 400 years the KJB revealed the truth to their fellow Trinitarians. what a marvel!

Notwithstanding, some hardcore believers and supporters of heresy have held their ground against the KJB and the truth.

2 Timothy 4:3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.

removetheturban:
Yes, I said the above and I reiterate that.

If you do not agree that Jesus was the one about in the verse, who then is it?

If you say that it was wisdom, is wisdom before the Beginning of the heavens and the earth?

If it is, then, why do you insist that nothing was produced before the beginning? Proverbs 8:22

If it isn't, who is it?

You are stuck just like the other guy between a rock and a hard surface. You have been circumventing for too long, just give an answer and let us proceed.

The truth is never shaken. It stands tall above all lies. You can do whatever you care but the truth only can set you free.

removetheturban:
Was the woman created before Adam? Or, was she created before the beginning?

Hairyrapunzel:


What I know is that the bible said wisdom is the woman that cries at the gates leading into the city.
I will never speculate like you. I don't assume or argue from silence.

Bible did not say whether she was created before Adam or after neither did Bible say she was created before the beginning or after.

What the Bible says is that wisdom is a woman and addresses her as a "her" and "she". I won't add or remove from the Bible neither will I assume what's not in it and make it a fact.

Hairyrapunzel:


Another speculative comment. Assumption assumption assumption.

But the Bible didn't say "all other things " it's only in your magazines and your bible you see spurious insertion.
,
You make speculations become a fact. What a religion.

Hairyrapunzel:


Another speculative comment. Assumption assumption assumption.

But the Bible didn't say "all other things " it's only in your magazines and your bible you see spurious insertion.
,
You make speculations become a fact. What a religion.

Barristter07:


I expect an intelligent person to verify the claim up there before they attack, and it shows you didn't. If you have did so, you would realize nothing like such appears in that John 1:3 even in NWT - All other things didn't appear there. Making your accusation at bold invalid . it was a way to ascertain if people go the extra mile to verify claims before vomiting rubbish like you did.

John 1:3 - " and APART from him not even one thing came into existence "

The Greek word is :
◄ 5565. chóris ►
Strong's Concordance
chóris: separately, separate from
Original Word: χωρίς
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: chóris
Phonetic Spelling: (kho-rece')
Short Definition: apart from, without
Definition: apart from , [separately from; without.

So far the scripture Proved beyond doubt in Scripture's like Revelation 3:14 and Colosian 1:15 that Christ was created. It is properly rendered apart from him. That is apart from him ( who was created by his God and Father ) all the other things came into existence through him.

Hairyrapunzel:


Why don't you use 'without Him not even one thing came into existence'.

You have answered your self. 'Other' is only seen in your bible.

Colossians 1:16-17 KJV
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Colossians 1:16-17 NWT
By means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things vis-ible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist”.


You cannot lie here o is this one not "other" in bracket.
You know the "other" is not supposed to be there cause it changes the meaning of the verses. You want to hide the fact that in your bible there are spurious insertions.

[s]

And what did God say about adding and removing from his word?




Revelation 22:18-19
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

You have to add to God's word to change the entire meaning to suit your beliefs. This shows the craftiness and deceitfulness of your organization.
And you dare say I am not intelligent? See somebody that is intelligent hiding the fact that his leaders added a word to the bible that changes the meaning of the passage. Liar. I am not intelligent but the thing I am proud of is this: I CAN NEVER BE DECEIVED.
I AM NOT IN BONDAGE LIKE YOU.

Your religion has just been proved to be a liar. Earlier on we had proved them to be false prophets.
We will continue to bring out the spurious insertions. Just sit back and watch. [/s]

Barristter07:


Fact is: Apart from is very correct.

As to your question:

Simply Because Jesus himself was created - Rwv 3:14; Colossians 1:15 , this is why he is called Son of God . the title applies to Created beings.




Is " Other " a spurious insertion ,? Be careful here, because I can give you instances where other was added in various Bible version's for emphasis



Ignorance!

Answer my questions above

Barristter07:


Fact is: Apart from is very correct.

As to your question:

Simply Because Jesus himself was created - Rwv 3:14; Colossians 1:15 , this is why he is called Son of God . the title applies to Created beings.

Give the instances where other was added and we will check your Greek interlinear to see if the Greek word for "other" was put there





Is " Other " a spurious insertion ,? Be careful here, because I can give you instances where other was added in various Bible version's for emphasis



Ignorance!

Answer my questions above

Barristter07:


Fact is: Apart from is very correct.

As to your question:

Simply Because Jesus himself was created - Rwv 3:14; Colossians 1:15 , this is why he is called Son of God . the title applies to Created beings.




Is " Other " a spurious insertion ,? Be careful here, because I can give you instances where other was added in various Bible version's for emphasis



Ignorance!

Answer my questions above