₦airaland Forum

Who said vibration is as a result of a dead CKP?
[quote][/quote]Me

Anyway, there was a time the bolt holding the ckp on the bell housing in my car was loosed. So the ckp was dangling as the engine was idling and when the car was in motion, and would stall sometimes. The engine was terribly vibrating, which was also vibrating the entire car. When i was checking all the sensors, i now saw the culprit (loosed ckp on bell housing). In fact, it would have fallen off if i had continued using the car, without checking.

It could be that symptoms differ from vehicles or because mine was only dangling but not failed. My mistake!

Ikenna.

@ Siena

Siena, this morning, i checked the continuity of the two cts wires to the Ignition and Injection ECUs, and they where both ok. Then i now pulled out the cts plug, to see if the car would still hard start without the cts plugged. Before i could turn the ignition switch to the last turn, the engine was already running. This was a car that would take more than 15 mins of engine clanking to start. It feels so good when you diagnose and fix your car. It's a pleasant experience.    At least, its now obvious that the cts harness isnt the culprit, but the cts. But when i plugged the cts back and drove off, the car stalled in motion. The injection ecu supplies ground to Injectors and fuel pump relay. So the wrong signal or feedback the injection ecu was getting from the cts made the ecu to cut off the ground it was supplying the FP & Injectors relay.  I bypassed the ground supply wire fron inj ecu & drew ground from negative battery terminal, the car started again and never stalled or went off until i reached my destination. But the engine was still giving sign that the cts was faulty: sluggish movement when slow & the obvious sign - black smoke.

I will have to wait till Saturday, when i will have enough time from work, to go to APO village and look for the cts and replace.

Sorry poster for derailing. But people can still learn from my own situation, since its a similar issue with yours.

Ikenna.

I have come to realise that not so many of us here understand how EFI engines work.  A symptom a car is having must not be faulty of a particular component. How do i mean? A car that emits black smoke from exhaust pipe tail can be caused by components other than MAF/AFM. An engine that rough idles & misfires cant be attributed to spark plugs or plug leads failure, other faulty sensors can be the cause.

Now, the best way to diagnose a car, to me, is to start with harmless & cost free diagnosis. Fisrt, when you identify the symptom, then you list components that can cause such symptom, if failed. You start with the ones that wont cost a dime to check. It will be so painfull and wasteful to spend huge money to scan your car, when it wouldnt start. Only for the scan result to point at broken/failed fuse in the fuse box, as the culprit. So if the car stops him on highway, where no life exists, he must get his car scanned before he figures out what is wrong with it?

I would start with eliminations (manual diagnosis) before scanning comes in, if necessary.

CKP, MAF/AFM, CTS,etc.


1. CKP (Crankshaft Position Sensor): Yes. CKP can cause similar symptom: Stall when engine temperature rises to normal operating temperature & and the engine wont start untill it cools. But it will also be having another pronounced symptom. @ poster, if the ckp in that car is failing, the engine and the entire body will be vibrating, i mean, terrible one. If it fails, the distributor wont be getting high volts current from the ignition coil. The sensor, ckp, monitors the position of crankshaft, via holes on frywheel or other sources, and signal to Calculator/Ignition ecu or ecu. The ecu will now use Amplifier module/ignition module to break  the current that comes from coil and the distributor will via rotor distribute the high current to all the spark plugs. CKP is an ignition component/sensor.

2. MAF/AFM (Mass Air Flow sensor/Air Flow meter): The only way MAF will stop a car from starting is if its unplugged or burnt internally. What normally spoils MAF is terrible wrong connection. The Bosch MAF, that I know of, is a Die-cast sensor. A dirty MAF will tell on the fuel economy which you would have noticed. It can easily be cleaned and put back. A failing MAF will always show itself by rough idling the engine & also hinder the fuel economy. You should know if the car is showing such symptoms as well.

3. CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor): If it starts failing, the engine will hard start when cold or hard start when hot. It can also stall the car and no start when the car is in motion. But it will also tell on the fuel economy; black smoke from exhaust tail will be obvious. My car recently, when engine cold, was having a cold engine hard start & would stall when in motion and wont start after  several attempt. I discussed it with Siena. He suggested that i check the cts. I did this morning. Guess what! He was right. The cts was the culprit. Before, i use to think that cts was just to determine quantity of fuel that goes into the combustion chambers when engine  cold or hot (open & closed loop of the ecu). I never knew it could stop a car from starting or stall when in motion. If not for Siena!

So Poster, the ball is on your court. How you want to play it, is upto you. For me, I would rather ask those that know better than me, diagnose it myself and learn it. Worst case scenario, i purchase the scanning tool and be scanning the car myself than visiting scanning centres every now & then.

Siena, how are my doing?

Ikenna.

Sounds like a relay issue. Am not sure though, since i dont know how the electricals of the car is. But what I would do is to jumper the fuel pump & ignition coil(s) relays while troubleshooting. If the problem persist, then is not a relay issue. But if the problem stops, then you have found the culprit.


If the car has amplifier module/ignition module, swap it with another and see what happens. When an ignition module starts failing, the engine would stall and wont start untill the module becomes cold again. You can as well pour cold water on a cloth, press the cloth on the module for some minutes when the car refuses to start & remove the cloth when the module is cold enough. Restart the car. If it starts, you have found the cause of the wahala. If it dosent, then its something else. Meanwhile, ignition module should be attached close to ignition coil, if the engine has distributor & not the distributorless engine with coil packs.

These are other  possible causes of stall and no start. Siena will know a lot more.


Ikenna.

Goodluck with that.

Ikenna.

Pls at poster, how do you mean by beta car? So because people here & outside this forum are negative with VWs that makes it a non-beta car to you? What exactly were you expecting to get from this thread? I believe you are expecting Siena to encourage you to go ahead with the Bora or Passat, Isnt it? I can see that you are the bandwagon propaganda type.

I will tell you what you expect to hear, not what you need to or should hear. Toyotas & Hondas beta pass VWs. Hope you are satisfied now?

For future, if you want to find out how good a car is, check reviews of the car model from various forum online. I can give you one: carsurvey review. If you want to find out about availability of parts of a particular model, make a list of the car wearable parts, visit used & new car parts shops & ask for the prices of the parts on the list. What you gather will tell you if you can be able to maintain or keep the car on the road as long as it takes or you want. If you want to know if there are competent mechanics that can fix the car when broken down, look or ask for users or former users of the car. They will know who is the best close to where you stay.

Ikenna.

I currently run two Lions: Peugeot 505 V6 & Peugeot 605 V6. What influenced me to buy both cars are as follows:

A) Peugeot 505 V6:

1. Power.
2. Handling.
3. Driving pleasure.
4. Indestructible/durable engine.
5. Better Fuel Economy than I4 505s (XN1 & ZDJL).
6. Suitable for long distance drive on Nigeria highways.
7. Safety.



B) Peugeot 605 V6:

1. Influenced to buy due to the impressive performance of my Peugeot 505 V6 (Similar engine).
2. Comfort (Very roomy/spacious).

Ikenna.

80% of your thanks should go to Siena. The knowledge i have now on autos is because of him.

Ikenna.

First, your engine is I6 (Inline 6) engine. Its straight line 6 cylinder, not V configuration.

About the clutch failure, its not oil, but hydraulic. Your clutch master cylinder has failed. No, it wont be an expensive repair. It only need to be rekitted (changed 2 rubbers inside the cylinder). But if the cylinder or shaft/pinion has worn, you will have to replace the entire master cylinder. But even replacement of clutch master cylinder wont be an expensive repair either. Since its the master that is leaking, I believe the slave cylinder will still be ok. That one is under the bell housing (what Nigerian mechanics call banjo).

Ikenna.

Who be dis Engrr sef? Whats is your problem? The poster asked to know the difference between a steering wheel, rack & ram, which i did. Why then is it a problem for you? Your words that am "parading terminologies that is not important here" is very unfair. What is wrong in explaining to a starter how a part in a car looks like & its function? I tire o!

Ikenna.

If you are coverting your V6 BMW to I4, then you will be altering a lot of things.

To start with, what is the series of the BMW?

The weight of the car was considered when manufacturing the car with V6 engine. Trust me, the suspension and other mechanicals in the front, aside engine, will differ from the same I4 model.

But to answer to your question. Yes. Its possible to covert the car from V6 to I4. And Yes. You will have to change or replace the ECU(s) [aka brainbox] to the I4 engine model. It dosent stop there. The engine harness ( wires from the ecus to relays and engine sensors) will be changed too. God have mercy on you if the electrical conversion is done by an incompetent rewire. Speaking from experience!

If you convert that car to I4, depending on the car's weight, the car might end up consuming more fuel than the V6. Why? Because installing an I4 engine in a heavy car, there will be more load on the smaller I4 engine to pull the overweight body. It will run sluggishly as well. Its better to upgrade (convert I4 to V6) than to downgrade (convert V6 to I4).

If you and your husband want I4, I would advise you guys to sell the car and purchase a factory I4 BMW. Its what I would do.

Ikenna.

ATF: Automatic Transmission Fluid.

PAS (Power assisted steering) uses the same fluid for automatic transmission (automatic gear).

RAM: It looks like shock absober attached to the steering shaft, in the engine bay, under the bell housing or gear box, as the case maybe. It absorbs shocks & prevents it from getting to the steering wheel (aka steering, like we call it here), among other functions.

Ikenna.

Steering wheel is that round thing facing the driver, the driver turns to steer away from object or change lane while driving.

The steering rack, on the other hand, is in the engine bay. It has a pinion inside. If its PAS (power assisted steering), the rack will be attached with pipes from PAS pump, Ram & PAS ATF reservoir or container. The steering shaft passes thought the Rack, that leads to & turns or steers the front 2 wheels.

Ikenna.

Days were gone when auto trans were reliable. In the '70s and early '80s, Peugeot used 3 speed auto tranny (ZF 3HP22) on their 504 cabrios, 504 sedans, 604s & 505s that were auto trans. They were bullet proofed. As long as fluid were regularly changed, they remained reliable and durable too, at least, to some extent. Things fell apart when ZF 3HP22 was dumped and replaced with ZF 4HP22 (4 speed auto). In '86 & '87, the 2nd series/facelifted Peugeot 505s with the new 4 speed auto (ZF 4HP22) had transmission breakdowns. So where the Range Rovers, Jaguars, BMWs,etc, that had the same ZF 4HP22. Though some of the issues were sorted out in '87 productions, but it was never the same with the 3 speed auto. That was when auto trans became a nightmare in Europe. Siena can enlightened us more on the ZF 3HP22 & ZF 4HP22.

The point am trying to make here is that not all new tech is better than the old tech. Manufacturerers are now more concerned with providing comfort in cars, & losing quality of what they used to produce.

Ikenna

viperman:
Ikenna, the manual transmission is good no doubt, thats probably why its still used for formula-1 racings and Rally's.
That said, technology is to improve lives, and technology has created automatics, step/tiptronics etc, and people have adopted it. Its not only africans that have jumped onto the automatic transmission bandwagon, even europeans have also, so whats the whole "mental colonisation " talk about must everything be about that?
If a race improves on something, I shouldn't use it because, i want to be seen as mentally independent?
Tomorrow, something better than automatic is surely in the cooking pot of the auto giants, and when it comes out, people who love to try NEW THINGs will jump on it, if it feels good for them, they'd buy it, if not, they'd definitely trash it.

With the stress people have to go through in their daily lives in the homes, offices etc, I don't think adding stress of driving manual transmissions would make sense to plenty. Except those who want to drive it for special purposes/events e.g racing OR those who are auto engineers who drive it for better/core understanding and feel of a car's engineering.

Now you are talking!

Meanwhile, you still dont get it. There where days when auto trans were very reliable and durable. You talk of 3 speed auto (ZF 3HP22) used on Peugeot 604 504 & 505 1st series. They where bullet prooffed. They never had issues as long as fluid were regularly changed. But the later model, 4 speed auto (ZF 4HP22), where nightmares in their start up in middle 80s. The 2nd seiries 505 auto trans, from '86 to 92, had the the 4 speed auto (ZF 4HP22). So was Range rover, Jaguar, BMW,etc. '86 & '87 cars with that gearbox had issues witheir transmission. It was until 88 that it was sorted out, but werent reliable as the 3 speed (ZF 3HP22). Since then, auto trans became nightmares. So tell me, how then does all new tech proves bvetter than old ones? My point remains that auto trans is new doesnt mean that is better when compared to indestructible manual tranny.

Ikenna.

@ Viperman.

You sound as if traffic or madness on Lagos roads never existed before Nigerians became crazy with auto vehicles? Was the Lagos population reducing then because of body pains or HBP caused by traffic in Lagos?

Simply put, reason why Nigerians prefer automatics is because of mental colonisation: everything modern, produced by the western world or whites is superior or better. a whiteman knows better & he is always right. This is the simply truth.

How many of our children now exercise their body these days? 10% or so. The rest spend 12hrs on computer games, moving only their fingers. Check out their stature: Obessity. The whiteman knows better or the best. Abi? Days were gone when we have to strain ourselves doing work. After all, the whiteman has made it easy for us. You can stay in your bed 24/7 and be working, without making a move. Modern technology has made it possible for us to be lazy while doing everything you can think of. Why strain yourself to drive manual when auto is for big men & its modern tech to manual. One has to move with the time, isnt it?

That something is modern or newly invented dosent mean that its better than the existing one before it came into being. Our Fathers that drove manuals all through lives as able-bodied, have not all died, neither are they suffering from pains in their old age caused by manual vehicles they drove when they were young. Or are you now telling me that we live longer than them now because we now drive automatics to prevent future illnesses/ailments? We are too fake!

Every Nigerian prefers & believes that anything from America is superior to other nations. No one wants to buy Toyota Camry or Honda Accord of Euro spec. No. It must be American spec. Which happens that 95% Vehicles driven in America are auto tranny, while Europeans that consider fuel efficiency more than Americans use Manuals & Diesel vehicles more than Americans.

The more the whites set high jump for us, the more we jump. We want to be like them, use what they use because they know better.

What am getting at is that 95% of Nigerians that buy & use auto tranny vehicles do so because its whitemans modern tech. Not because they really need it, but because everyone uses it, why not join.

Anyone that complains that driving manual in heavy traffic is stressful, simply means he/she dosent know how to drive manual, period. 95% of manual transmission vehicles produced from early '90s till date all have Hydraulically controlled Clutch system. The softest clutch pedal one can ever depress. So, how then is it stressful to depress a soft pedal? Also, why would someone depress Clutch pedal & hold it for mins waiting for traffic to start moving before he releases the pedal? Like i noted earlier, more than half of people that drive manual vehicles dont really know how to drive manual vehicles. Thats the reason clutch plate, disc & throw out bearing usually fail in most manual cars in Nigeria because of improper usage or application.

My point is, if you like or need an automatic tranny vehicle, go for it because thats what you need, not because all your colleague have auto trans or because you dont want to be left out. At least, with that, you can bear whatever high maintenance cost you get from it without lamenting.

One should buy a car to keep himself or herself happy. Just like marrying a wife. You dont marry someone to impress others. You marry whom you love for your happiness. Otherwise, you dont get to change your wife after one or two years because she has become boring to you. The same thing is applicable to cars/vehicles.

Auto tranny is not bad. Of course, i do recommend it people, considering, first, what they want out of a car, which has been always my first question before i suggest a car to someone. But that auto tranny has come to be in Nigeria does not mean manual has been taken over by events in Nigeria.

If driving manual in heavy traffic ,like Lagos, is very stressful to you, then go & learn how to drive manual properly cos you dont know how to do so. And mind you, that you have driven manual for 100 years dosent mean you really know how to drive it properly, otherwise you shouldnt be complaining driving it in traffic & killing your Clutch system frequently.

Ikenna.

The truth is 90% of Nigerians now are victims of Bandwagon Propaganda: that is "EVERYBODY DOES IT". The 90% purchase a particular brand or tranny vehicle becuase everyone is using the same. Very few buy something they really want, not what others want them to or because its in vogue. Someone commented that Nigerians prefer auto tranny vehicle because of resale value, forgeting that some people buy cars for keep, unless when they start finding it difficult to keep the car on the road. I have driven a lot of auto trans vehicles, but fail to find the comfort people claimed to derive from it.

A colleague of mine that bought Toyota Camry almost the sametime i bought my 505 manual trans has replaced his car auto gearbox that failed few months after purchase. Also just recently, he also replaced his I4 engine that failed as well. A neigbour of mine that drives Nissan Pathfinder auto tranny, had a failed gearbox of the SUV. He replaced the gearbox. Unfortunately, the purchased auto gearbox wasnt exactly the same failed one removed from the SUV. Trust our rewires. They butchered the auto gearbox harness that connects to the gearbox ECU or TCU & connected the harness to ECU with guess work. Becuase of that, the gear wasnt selecting properly & was disrupting the proper running of the engine. That later led to engine failure. The man has finally, in pain, sold the car as scrap. He is now using Peugeot 307 manual trans. Go figure!

Ikenna.

i dont see a reason why i would sacrifice a lot, deprive or deny myself a lot of things to save enough to purchase a car or vehicle i have been dreaming to own, only to have at the back of my mind of resale value. Most of us that are into Euro cars dont purchase them because of resale value (which they dont have in Nigeria), we buy them because of driving pleasure they offer which some Asian vehicles lack. Why then should i resale something i enjoy driving and has never given me any reason to get rid of? So please, some Nigerians buy vehicles because they love them and intend to keep them as long as they could with them. And am one of them.

When my purchased Peugeot 505 V6 5-speed manual transmission first arrived, the car had severe electric issues that made it undrivable that i pay less attention to other parts of the car. Unknown to me, the manual gearbox had leaked gear oil from the seal, even before the car was driven from Lagos to Abuja to me. I could hear terrible noise under the car when on high speed, but i thought it was the propeller shaft or torque tube bearing that had failed and was making the propeller shaft to be dangling as speed increases. Like i said before, i was less concerned with the noise because i was more concerned with sorting out the severe injection issue the car came with. I drove the car for months like that, until i decided to check the oil level in the gearbox. They checked and not a drop of oil dropped from the box when it was opened. I refilled the box with TOTAL manual trans oil and drove out and the noise was no more till today. After months of running the car without a drop of gearoil in the box, both in city and on highway, yet the gearbox still runs well, even till today. I wouldnt even know how long it was driven without gear oil before i purchased the car. Can auto tranny survive this?


Ikenna.

Sounds like an IAC (Idle Air control Valve) issue. Pull it out and clean it with Carb cleaner and fix it back. It should solve the stalling issue, if that is the culprit. Does the engine hunt when it is idling?

Also wait for Siena's response. He has better knowledge of this thing called automobile.

Ikenna.

Now, does the car look like a new car? I will say it again. Its Peugeot 605 V6 5-speed manual 12v 3.0 1990 model (series 1). Its my second car, my daily driver. So stop acting as if only new cars can get good fuel economy/efficiency.


And to the second question. No, the A/C wasnt used. So, even with the air drag (windows open), it still had such a wonderul fuel economy.

Of course, some I4s would do better on fuel economy on Highways (even though i know some I4s that guzzle fuel like Hell when trying to speed with them- lack of strong engine torque), but you enjoy a V6 more with the same or close to consumption of such I4s. Most I4s can be so boring to travel with. They lack acceleration or lack quickness.

Ikenna.

more pics of the car.

pics

GWslim:
You car must be new.

Since you need proof, attached are pics of the car i took on Monday, a day after i arrived Abuja with it.

Ikenna.

What a drama on this thread!

Ikenna.

What really impressed me was, if a 1990 605 V6 5-speed manual, an old technology, could be that conservative with fuel on highway/long distance, how then would the improved modern V6 behave with the on highway?

There could be some I4s with the same or better fuel economy on highways. But you stand to gain more with V6. Why? With the good fuel economy of V6 on highways, you enjoy powerful performance or quickness of the car, most I4s wont give you. How do i mean? On my way to Abuja, i would meet a queue of vehicles following queue of 3 or 4 trucks behind, waiting for oncoming vehicles, still very far, to pass before they overtake, which takes eternity waiting. But whenever i reached such queues, I would bring the gear stick to gear 3, plant my foot little on the throttle pedal, off I went. It would zoom off or shoot like rocket. I would pass the queue in seconds & continued on my journey, while others behind would be waiting to get to straight road, without oncoming vehicle, before they could overtake the trucks. By then, i must have entered another state. I mean, it can be very fun, with the way V6 performs on highways. The speedometer, when accelerated, would behave or rises like the tachometer/rpm does. Damn! I love V6!

Most people hate long distance driving. But i have come to realise that the vehicle you drive for long distance determines if the journey will be boring or fun. If you take a boring car for a long distance driving, you will hate long distance driving. But if you take a fun, powerful & quick car for for that purpose, the hunger to travel everytime will become your new headache.

Ikenna.

Last Saturday night, 27/11/2011, I filed my car's fuel tank, Peugeot 605 V6. The tank takes 80 liters, which cost me N5,200 (five thousand, two hundred naira only). The next day, 28/11/2011, i drove off and headed Abuja. Before I got to Akure, i was expecting the fuel guage to be indicating low fuel level, but it was still indicating above half tank. I fired on and arrived Lokoja, after about 8 or 9 hrs high speed drive. The fuel guage was indicating 31 liters remaining in the tank. Hm! I was amazed! I fired on to Abuja from Lokoja, after mins of stopping at Lokoja. I arrived my house in Abuja about 2 hrs or so i drove off from Lokoja and the fuel guage was indicating 14 liters remaining in the fuel tank. I couldnt believe it! One full tank, in V6 car, on high speed, brought me from Lagos to Abuja. In fact, the car used only 68 or so liters from the 800km or so on the journey. It was unbelievable!

Whats the complain then about V6 running very thirsty? Am sure not all I4's can run from Lagos to Abuja with N4500 fuel (70 liters). Am very sure that Lagos to Abuja is more than 800 km. Though, i know V6s can be thirsty when driven in the cities, but have better fuel economy than most I4's i know off, on long distance.

It was a wonderful experience.

Ikenna.

But to be honest, if you can learn some basics on car diagnosis, it will help you a lot. I know you are a lady and you wouldnt want to mess with spanners and all that. But at least, if you have the knowledge of how engines work & the work of various sensors on the engine, you can able to tell what is wrong with your car anytime it starts misbehaving. You can also be able to instruct your mechanic on what to do. Or at least, you can be able to tell, from explanations to your questions, a mechanic that is car killer and run for your dear life when you can.

Ikenna.

Am sorry i got you confused But for becoming scared, thats ok to me Just kidding! But been scared will make you to be cautious of whom you open your bonnet for. ITS BETTER TO BE SCARED AND BE ALERT THAN TO LIVE IN CYCLES OF NIGHTMARES! How are my doing? Still dosent make sense?

If I were you, I would drive the car to APO on Saturday and look for a quality or brither headlight yourself like you said. All you need is to drive into the Toyota line, point at your headlight to the parts (old or new) sellers, for them to know how it looks like. They will bring out different grades in different conditions for you to choose. If its the used ones, the ones in top good conditions would be well pronounced. Trust me! They are all Igbos. They will try to cheat you with the price. If they tell you 12k, start the bargainig with 2k and stop at 5k. If they start with 5k, start with N1,500 and stop at 2k. I would talk and bargain the price with them in Igbo Language, if i were you, if you understand Igbo or if you are an Igbo. It helps alot. Even if you are not buying yet, at least, you can go and do market survey. Do not allow anyone to remove the headlights without seeing the ones to replace them with. If its the glass (Headlight cover) that only broke, the glass can be found new in the market and gummed back to the glove. I wish I can help you on this, but am not sure i will be in Abuja on Saturday, but will be back on Sunday.

The mechanic i earlier mentioned is very good with V6 Toyotas. To be honest, he is one of the road side mechanics, which was why i was reluctant to give you his contact in my earlier post. Unfortunately, you can hardly find auto workshops where they do scanning, unlike Lagos. Their might be, but you will have to search the whole city for that. The mechanic's phone no. is:08036471639. Like i noted, if you intend to use him, you are on your own!

You can always contact me via iykefrankjackie@yahoo.co.uk , anytime you need my assistance.

Ikenna.

If Iam to buy purchase an American car tomorrow, that would be Ford. Am even considering it in my next purchase.

Ikenna.

Not everyone would like to drive or own a Toyota Camry, no matter how reliable they are. That you don't own an Audi dosent mean that others wont purchase and use an Audi car. Its called variety and choice, People! I can see that is the poster's problem.

Ikenna.

Mine:

'87 Peugeot 505 V6 5sp ---- (still in use) My fun car. So much love the car.
'90 Peugeot 605 V6 5sp -----(still in use) My daily driver. Purchased last month.

Ikenna.

This Chidexy guy, what is your problem? Who told you that the only way to create a database for all vehicles and drivers is by changing the plate numbers and drivers licence? Who told you that transfer of plate number from one vehicle to another has not been in existence in Nigeria before now? Stop being an apologist if you have not done your home work well.

Those of us here in Abuja know that we have what we call "Car Coder", compelled on us  here recently to attach on plate numbers, for the same purpose of having a database of all Vehicles in Abuja, and maybe Nigeria as well. Are they now telling us that it was just a lie? After collecting 3k from every motorist in Abuja for it? If that car coder serves that purpose, then what is the crap about the new plate?
Even if they initially deceived us with the car coder, why wont they compell us to renew our vehicle licences within 3 or 4 months and use the info they gather at Licencing offices to create the database, including the drivers licence?

All the reasons Chidoka has given for the need for the new plate to be enforced has been in existence. If they had failed to have or create a database with the old plate and drivers licence, thats their business. The masses shoudnt suffer their incompetency. If they intend to use the new plate and driver's licence for security purposes (which is not their business, though), they should then ask people to return the old plates and take the new plates for free, and maintain the old price(5k) for the new vehicle registrations. After all, its the primary function of govt is to provide security for its people and not the other way round. That they want to update their system or improve on their work, does not mean Nigerians will be sent to their early graves to achieve that?

Ikenna.