₦airaland Forum

Ojuntana:
Keep quiet 🤫
The salary was delayed due to lack of funds which was requested for when the initial approved amount was expended
The lack of funds was due to need to borrow to find the supplementary budget of 2024 or were you under a rock when these things were announced?

https://tribuneonlineng.com/2024-supplementary-budget-fg-seeks-2-5bn-world-bank-loan-to-augment-n50bn-pidf/amp/

Meanwhile the 50bn initial funding for the supplementary budget was dividend from the SWF started by Jonathan after the whole ECA brouhaha led by APC looting governors
Yet you're claiming PDP did not do anything. If Jonathan and Okonjo Iweala had looted that $2.5bn like your APC thieves do, where will the N50bn come from

Still nothing stating that the FG borrowed to pay salaries. Common sense is indeed not common.

Ojuntana:
Image123 I hope you can read simple English now claiming Tinubu never borrowed to pay salaries

You are clearly the one that can't read here, as it didn't state that salaries were borrowed by the particular ministry but DELAYED. This was probably due to the increase in minimum wages which wasn't captured in the previous budget. It's common sense.

tctrills:
If you could help the poor as well as help everyone with the same money isn't that far more intelligent than given out a few meals to the poor?
Now how many people did your government pull out of poverty last year?
So in other parts of the world, there are welfare programs but that is a standard and it is just and fair. Let me ask you, how does one qualify for Tinubu"s palliative? How does the government decide who gets what? If the process is not transparent as we both know it isn't, then it is a waste. At least we both can agree on this. Again, if the process is not continuous and guaranteed, meaning, the poor continues to get food until they are out of poverty, then what is the purpose?

You also lied when you say aid is not uniform in other parts of the world. In Europe and the united states, you need to meet uniform qualifications to get welfare. That way, the system isn't easily corrupted. In Tinubu's Nigeria government has not for once published the qualifications for these aid. Even you can smell corruption here.

You are again very wrong in saying that giving away money doesn't kill and it doesn't stop other important things. You and I can both mention 1000 important things the government could have done with that money.
And in a very poor country like Nigeria, every wasted Kobo kills someone.
Have you been to any of our federal medical centers? They look like death houses. Thousands die every year because these hospitals are so messed up.
10 billion in an FMC would save many lives. So stop pretending that your government is so rich and had solved the major problems and all that is left is to give the poor a few meals.

Charity has little to do with rational intelligence.There is NOTHING wrong with the government being a little bit philantrophic no matter how you paint it. There will always be needs, so again it doesn't kill to spare 0.04% of your budget for some needy citizens. It is not my fault if it does not make sense to you, thankfully it makes sense to the thousands of other Nigerians involved in approving and processing it. What qualifies as transparent for you? Or you think Tinubu is the one personally sharing palliatives for the FG? What are uniform qualificaions for getting aid? Please be informed that qualifications vary, stop this flagrant misinformation, or kindly provide proof.
2024 budget allocated ₦1.23 trillion to health. 2025, ₦2.48 trillion, which is 5.18% of the total budget. But of course, swallow the camel and strain at the gnat, mr lives saver.

VTJN:
firstly, the students loan cannot capture all students as i personally know students that applied and didn't get it and their parents can't afford it obviously. Secondly, where Is the job to pay back such loan after school please? Where is the enabling environment to allow foreign investors or businesses to thrive? Obviously most of the beneficiary will find it difficult to pay back due to the rate of unemployment in the country. A country of 70k minimum wage.

Evidently loans cannot be automatic, there has to be criteria met. It is also a start and a very welcome one. What i say is that anyone can get it, it doesn't need to be by connection. People who could not afford to go to higher institution can go. If you think education is expensive, you must have tried ignorance. People need a chance. If all you can imagine is inability to pay back, what happened to the opportunities given? Foreign investors have been coming in and putiing in billions of dollars like never before. you think that because you did not see them in your street they are not coming? Find out, explore, go airport go see
On a serious note, get informed.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/brazilian-meatpacker-jbs-agrees-invest-25-bln-nigeria-build-six-factories-2024-11-22/
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/645279-investment-drive-nigeria-germany-sign-mous-on-500m-renewable-projects-gas-supply.html
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigeria-gets-14-billion-investment-pledges-india-seeks-economic-pact-2023-09-06/
https://finance.gov.ng/nigeria-china-forge-unbreakable-bonds-3-3-billion-agreement-signed-at-historic-trade-conference/
https://www.afreximbank.com/afreximbank-announces-an-initial-disbursement-of-us2-25-billion-under-a-syndicated-us3-3-billion-crude-oil-prepayment-facility-sponsored-by-the-nigerian-national-petroleum-company-limited/
https://energychamber.org/nigeria-leads-africa-as-top-upstream-investment-destination-aec-applauds-governments-policy-reforms/

Jokerman:
Can you name one thing Nigerians are benefitting from this government?

Something tangible and what's is down to the local level?

Some other governments Nigerians enjoyed free education, reduced cost of petrol, cheap commodities in the market, etc??

So who can point out one thing Nigerians are benefitting from BAT government

The word Nigerians is ambiguous. The people at the national assembly are Nigerians. There are Nigerians making billions. But i want to believe that you refer to the common man. For one, anyone can access students loans and go to higher institutions unlike before. Electricity is actually starting to get better. Train transport is now a possibility depending on where you are. Most of the other tangible things for the general poor will take some time. There are many positives but i refer to what everyone can benefit from comparing to before. As per inflation, it will come down in time, we're past the worst phase after the removals of unsustainable fake life subsidies.

tctrills:
Oga you get me wrong. I never said you shouldn't help the poor. Remember, building roads and hospitals help the poor. Investing in oil and gas helps the poor.
But it becomes a waste when you can't help in a sustainable way and when your giving of aid is not uniform or just. The aid of the current government can't change the lived of the poor. You know it and I know it.
Now you speak of Aso rock, the state governors and the senators but you forget that these are the very people that improvised us. We would be wise not to accept their opinions.
Finally, you say I am claiming holier just because 8 am against a government that is destroying our country. Well I don't have a reply to that. You have only showed whose side you are.

Building roads and hospitals helps everyone, not just the poor. Helping the poor exclusively includes giving of palliatives. Giving money and foodstuff which are what palliatives usually entail is done by different sets of people and organisations and it's okay if the government does it, as the different regions, religions, parties and states also agree to. Charity or giving fish is never sustainable in the sense but it's not discarded in any part of the globe, neither is it uniform as needs will always differ. Again, i am on the side of giving as long as it doesn't kill and doesn't stop other important things. The FG is giving and i support it fully, irrespective of whoever is in power.

Ojuntana:
PDP mismanaged Nigeria no doubt. But APC is far worse. In fact, where PDP scored 2 in terms of mismanagement, APC will score 8. The aforementioned all assumed alarming proportions under APC. PDP on the average sustained oil production at 2m barrels. APC even reached 900kbarrels at one point. All due to the criminals and political looters in the rank and file of APC

Lol, at least we are making progress on the bold. Your issue seems to be that your black is blacker than mine. Why would it not be? Did Okonjo and other experts not predict it to be so? You left the nation to rot and are now complaining that the rot is more than when you were there. Make sense please. Why did you not provide basic amenities, health, transport and education ythat should have been our backbone, that the current admin is just doing? You met population at 119million and let it balloon to 184million. Who should take care of that with what resources? Have you compared population growth with any sensible government at that timeframe? Have you bothered to check minimum wage, number of employed, amount of monies made from crude export and how you plundered those resources? Did you think at all that those employed by government have since multiplied, minimum wage increased tremendously and revenue from crude oil reduced?
Whose brothers were playing politics and making sure Nigeria could not sustain oil production, or you were too young to remember how 'Avengers' were constantly carrying out terror attacks on oil production that Osinbajo had to virtually put in his neck to save the day? And you have the temerity to blame it on political looters in APC. You are such a shameless liar.

See lies everywhere. Are you even aware that oil price under APC has been far better than oil price under PDP? Oil price in 1999 up to 2003 was less than $20. The analysis had been done so many times. Stop feeding yourselves lies. Just imagine the lie that you just told now. So how much have APC made from crude sale and how much can they account for? Has debt not hit alarming heights under APC? At least PDP paid the debts they met before accumulating theirs. Has APC paid any debts since they took office? No be to add debts to debts? And quit the lies.

You conveniently forgot to specify the lies. Is it our biggest oil boom and 16years of goodwill and opportunities, earning over $454 billion in oil revenue. Was it $30billion both in reserves and negatives in debt or total public debt of approximately $63 billion. Was it the link receipts here on NL and on the newspapers or $14.7billion NLNG paid to Okonjo's FG just in 2014? What silly awareness are you bringing up trying to divide the PDP years? Was 2007 to 2015 by the US Republicans? You are asking if any debt has been paid since APC took office, you must be working with the father of lies. All the debts owed workers for months, Buhari was bailing out several times, or it's not important? All the debts of railway and road construction that the FG part was consistently at fault and Buhari came up and paid, it doesn't count? All the debts in securing military weapons nko? $7billion forex backlog that Tinubu paid or ECOWAS levy backlog after 19 years does not count abi? Your itching ears gladly believe the links and newspapers of debts but vehemently refuse these ones as audio abi? Hypocrite. Not mentioning pension debts, athletes' debts etc that you don't count as consequential.

The above is CEIC records. That's how oshiomole came back from US and lied that he was told by the US that a minister stole $6bn only for the US to burst his lies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33689115

https://newswirengr.com/2015/08/22/us-govt-frowns-at-governor-oshiomhole-for-lying-over-comments-alleging-6bn-stolen-by-jonathans-minister/

Your link confirms billions of dollars theft in the PDP era, so what exactly is your argument? Or did i mention Oshiomole at any time?
"It was reliably gathered that the United States government truly indicated that several billions of dollars were stolen under the administration of Dr. Jonathan but nobody’s name was mentioned to the Nigeria’s delegation as repeatedly said by the Edo state governor."
Didn't we just get over $50million from Deziani this month via the same US, just last week or so?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg8djpn845o

Seems you were hibernating when Gov. Obaseki raised the alarm that CBN was printing to pay allocations to states. That ended up as a debt of N27trn. Yet you are here saying you never heard of APC borrowing to pay salaries.
What about the money borrowed by Tinubu from World Bank? What is it being used for? What is the cause of delays in FG workers' salaries in November and December last year? Even the minimum wage turned out to be a fraud!! So how much has your APC that is not mismanaging declaring as NLNG dividends or has dividends payment stopped when they took over?

You are not an illiterate or blind. You said that Tinubu is borrowing to pay salaries, kindly point this out with proof.
Report say some of the projects under Tinubu include loans for power ($750 million), women empowerment ($500 million), girl’s education ($700 million), renewable energy ($750 million), economic stabilization reforms ($1.5 billion) and resource mobilization reforms ($750 million),
due to long years of infrastructure decay and increased unemployment. None of it reports for paying salary.
On late salaries, Punch's report as at 25th December said the salaries had all been paid. How thayt is comparable to borrowing to pay salaries or owing months of salaries which was a norm in PDP era is baffling. The PUNCH reported that the fault came from the office of the Accountant General of the Federation while other sources others noted that the delay was as a result of migration to a new payment platform. It was issues having to do with shortfall because of the new minimum wage. Minimum wage more than doubled if you remember, so a few days delay inside the same month is not what you should be nagging about, especially as a PDP supporter.

No be una. Na lie be una middle name? You say Lagos to Kano was working but there's no other rail working. If you add Lagos-Ibadan and Warri-Itakpe, it's it up to half of Lagos to Kano?

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/207628-abuja-kaduna-rail-project-partially-executed-jonathan-amaechi.html

https://www.thecable.ng/we-built-abuja-kaduna-rail-to-99-completion-says-pdp/

These are links showing that Abuja-Kaduna was virtually completed and Amaechi himself acknowledging that PDP had almost completed it. Why shamelessly add it to the list of achievements of your bosses? Again, mention any rail that's not built by loans to prove Jonathan wrong. I never heard of building something with loans and claiming you can afford it. Has any of the loans been fully liquidated till now? Warri-Itakpe was not built for passengers. What is the utility like since it was built? Is Itakpe a major city in Nigeria? Not even Lokoja!!

Osinbajo like Oshiomole was lying. He was challenged to provide evidence and that was the end of it.

How has the country fared since GEJ and NOI? Is poverty and insecurity not killing more Nigerians now than ever? How come the arrival of APC signalled economic downturn for Nigeria? You think the years of prosperity and international goodwill came out of the blue for PDP? The worked on it. They got oil production up and courted international bodies and developed countries which worked. APC with lies, propaganda and ineptitude have been failing at doing that.
Your votes dropped from 15m to less than 9m and you say the majority know better. You won 2023 with 38% votes even with rigging and you say majority think you're better. What happened to the remaining 62%?

Stop this show of illiteracy. The Lagos–Kano Standard Gauge Railway is a 1,343 kilometres rail plan. i explained to you earlier since you seem not to know this common fact that it is divided into segments. The Cape gauge Western Line built by the British in 1896–1927 is what was left functioning until APC took over. This is a fact undeniable. Standard guage has only been promise and pictures since OBJ era and their excuse was lack of funds. Until during APC, two segments of the Lagos to Kano railway have been completed and begun passenger trains. The segment between Abuja and Kaduna officially opened in July 2016. The segment between Lagos and Ibadan was flagged off in June 2021. The plan for decades has been to complete the rest like Ibadan-Osogbo-Ilorin (200 km), Osogbo–Ado Ekiti, Ilorin-Minna (270 km), Minna–Abuja, Kaduna-Kano (305 km) and Future connection to Warri. There's also the Lagos to Calabar plan that many find laughable because of decades of promise. The APC has boldly attempted this and making visible progress. The people that gave excuses of no funds, we can't afford new trains are bleating about APC chopping money. You borrowed to buy us useless locomotive trains that you painted, Buhari gave us modern trains. Same thing happened with 2nd Niger Bridge, and our electricity where billions of dollars went down the drain with no result. Every single time APC achieves breakthrough, you liars will come up with how PDP started it and other silly stories. It was same with refineries, and Warri to Itakpe since 1987. You called it a worthless venture, but Buhari finished it in 2020. It was the same way OBJ and Atiku castigated our government refineries, today two are working. But to you, they are audio. The same way you lots destroyed Ajaokuta. Comedians. Warri to Itakpe was planned to supply the Ajaokuta Steel Mill with iron ore and coal. Construction is underway on an extension to Abuja, where it will connect to the Lagos–Kano Standard Gauge Railway. You lack vision as usual so it does not surprise.
And you went on to drift into election figures dropping? Wow wow. Should we start to talk about the shams that you conducted and called elections. Do you think that BVAS and other technologies that the APC brought in help sanitise our electoral system are a joke? Or you are too young to remember how PDP used to write crazy do or die figures? Let me not even start.
APC removed fuel subsidy that PDP attempted and failed, APC showed us our true fuel consumption which PDP ballooned for corrupt subsidy reasons, APC deregulated the oil sector, brought LG autonomy, Student loan that PDP could never think of, now Electricity reform and tax reform bill. It's called leadership. Stay there and be defending decades of squander. Nigeria is moving forward. PDp, NEVER AGAIN.

tctrills:
Oga what are you saying? Yes we have road projects and hospitals, these are sustainable but are you making the claim that these are enough. You seem to be saying that your gov has built enough roads electricity plants educational institutions and hospitals that they can now waste the remaining 0.04% of the budget.
I am of the opposing view that even if 100% of the budget was spent on sustainable projects, it still wouldn't be enough so why waste even a Kobo on unsustainable projects.
You also say that you are thankful that government is not just my opinion and I agree with you but clearly the collective opinion in Aso rock is doing a very bad job. That is why Nigeria is one of the poorest and deadliest places on health. Maybe, just maybe the opinion of tctrills isn't that bad compared to the vampires you voted into power.
Lastly, you say you have not heard that the poor in Nigeria are dying and I wonder where you get your news from.
The life expectancy of the average Nigerian is 52.68 year. This is even less than that of Gaza.
Oga, Nigerians are dropping like flies. And poverty is the number 1 cause of the low life expectancy.

Great progress, at least you agree that there are ongoing sustainable projects. Great also that you asked and did not assume that i am claiming that they are enough. So it's basically a matter of different life perspectives and philosophies. You think since money is not enough, it's a waste to help the poor at all as there are more pressing needs, i don't think so. Thankfully many people don't think so too. Not just Aso Rock but including all the state governors and senators, including yours that vote in, and share some form of palliatives. Like i said earlier on, money can never be enough for the poor anywhere in the world.
It's still frontpage news today on this forum that they announced to share more palliatives. https://www.nairaland.com/8321698/hardship-70-million-nigerians-get
All your governors, senators, house of reps, local government chairmen and councillors subscribe to and will struggle to get their share. Keep hiding your head in the sand claiming holier than thou apparently because e no reach you.
Now lastly, show me the last time that life expectancy of the average Nigerian was good, thanks.

He's correct.

Ojuntana:
Ok. The PDP mismanaged Nigeria's resources and APC is managing it well with illegal mining, crude oil theft, naira devaluation and closing down of industries abi

At last, we have breakthrough, you agree that PDP mismanaged Nigeria's resources. Illegal mining, crude oil theft, naira devaluation and closing down of industries did not just start.

It makes sense to you to claim that PDP handed over a horrible country to APC but you don't want to look at what PDP inherited. How does that sound to you? You're claiming that fx reserves fell to $30bn from where? Did PDP meet fx reserves at over $30bn? What was the fx reserves by the time APC took over and what is it now? What was debt when PDP took over and what was debt when APC took over and what is debt now? You need to stop telling lies about this inability to pay salaries. It only happened in a specific month. The same Okonjo Iweala left over $2.2bn NLNG dividends for Buhari. So what's all the cry about inability to pay salaries? Did Buhari not borrow to pay salaries? Has Tinubu not borrowed to pay salaries?

i know what PDP inherited and i kow how they mismanaged our biggest oil boom and 16years of goodwill and opportunities. Nigeria's oil sector is the main source of its foreign exchange earnings and budgetary revenues. During GEJ's administration, Nigeria earned over $454 billion in oil revenue. So it's crazily scandalous for him to leave us with about $30billion both in reserves and negatives in debt. You don't seem to know the meaning and implications of squandering. This is a man that left Nigeria with total public debt of approximately $63 billion.
We still have receipts here on NL and on the newspapers.
https://www.nairaland.com/1368925/gej-puts-nigeria-fresh-debt
You have the guts to talk about NLNG dividends? The same NLNG that pwas said to pay $14.7billion to Okonjo's FG just in 2014? How would Buhari not borrow to pay salaries when your master crippled the country? Even though that was just some month in 2020 out of a 8 year reign with lean resources. You are free to point me to the news like we have receipts of Okonjo's headaches during the years of the prodigal son. i am yet to hear of Tinubu borrowing to pay salaries, kindly point this out with proof.

Reduce your lies abeg. Is Lagos-Kano working now since APC took over? Abuja-Kaduna read built by PDP. Even Amaechi accepted that it was virtually complete before he took office. So how did APC build it. APC did not also build Warri-Itakpe. Go and get your facts right. The rail already existed and APC only rehabilitated it. It was built for transport of iron ore not for passengers which is why it was never used. How does it even make sense to build a rail between Warri and Itakpe for anyone with common sense if not that it was already existing. The current govt love lies and propaganda which is why they'll never tell you what they are using the monies for but you'll just see debt increasing.
It's just like the current lie of revenue increasing when the main component that's been increasing is the VAT and the foreign exchange differentials while the statutory revenue has been decreasing

i said that "By 2013, the only operational segment of Nigeria's rail network was between Lagos and Kano. Passenger trains took 31 hours to complete the journey at an average speed of 45 km/h. " That was the ONLY railline that had any semblance of function during the PDP years and it was evidently very poor. Lagos to Kano is in phases/segments, duh. It is a total 1,343 kilometres and Abuja to Kaduna is part of the segments, it was completed by APC. The segment between Abuja and Kaduna officially opened in July 2016. The segment between Lagos and Ibadan was flagged off in June 2021.
Facts don't lie, there was no single rail working in Nigeria apart from the aforementioned, before the APC. It was only promises, excuses, paucity of funds and budgets for decades. GEJ even told us that we cannot afford new trains, chai. Why did PDP not make Warri to Itakpe work from 1999 to 2015, mr commonsense?
Lolz. Let me not mention the over $15billion stolen from boko haram fight by PDP. Not crude oil oh.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/nigeria-says-15-billion-stolen-in-security-spending-scams
Not to forget when GEJ was indicted that massive poverty and unemployment was killing Nigerians in the midst of plenty.
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/business/138525-world-bank-indicts-jonathans-government-says-massive-poverty-unemployment-killing-nigerians.html

Or Okonjo warning us to brace up for tougher times ahead.
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/business/171145-brace-tougher-times-ahead-okonjo-iweala-tells-nigerians.html

We remember eith sadness how about twenty four states were struggling to pay salaries during Jonathan administeration. We cannot forget how CBN sold over $26billion of our external reserves in 2013. Your coming here to gaslight the gullible is indeed shameful and pathetic. Anyway, your continued loss is eminent. The majority now know better and more are knowing. If you like, keep twisting facts, it's your daily bread you are fighting for, but it will not succeed. Plus, you will all face divine judgement for your wickedness to this country.

tctrills:
Really, you think Nigeria is littered with projects? That is very laughable. The so called 99.5% is not even enough for the very few projects and that's why your government results in borrowing every year.
Now let's talk about the act of giving. Your government has over 120 million people in poverty. What qualifies a person to benefit from the 10 billion? Clearly, most poor Nigerians are left out from this scheme making it unfair to most. Yes, if you give a poor man a plate of rice he will smile but the question remains, how sustainable is the scheme? 10 billion naira cannot feed 1% of the poor in Nigeria one meal a day for the entire year. Think about that. So you mean to tell me that government launching a program that feeds less than 1% of the poor is just and fair and not a terrible use of money because in Your words, some people will smile?
Let's do some maths here, assuming that not a Kobo of the money is stolen, and the government gives 2k to each person, it would only touch 5 million people in a country with more than 120 million people in poverty. That's a very foolish use of government money.
It's unfair to the other 115 million hungry people. And it's not even sufficient to feed the recipients for 5 days. Yes they would smile but you have not solved their problem, you only delayed it by less than 5 days and the money is gone.

Are roads and electricity sustainable projects? Is education and health sustainable project? Is agriculture sustainable project? Just to mention a few, there are projects ongoing and budgetted for inall these areas and ministries. If you somehow believe this one from the budget but refuse to believe those other ones in the budget, it is your hypocrisy not mine.
Giving can never be enough in any part of the world. You are free to correct me with facts on where giving is enough in the world. Throwing out the baby with the bath water therefore removes the human face in governance. Thankfully, governance is not just the opinion of tctrills but a collective opinion of many who feel otherwise. i have not heard that your 120million people have since die since they did not get enough palliative, so it's advisable you keep your alarmist mind in check.

LordReed:
LoLz. When you have scientific journals you want to discuss lemme know.

BTW why are you lying? This is what you said when you posted the researchgate link:

You are the one lying here because you asked for the link as academic qualification that shows expertise in geology. Now, you are acting like the link is evidence of flood. You initially said that "A global flood will leave the same footprint all over the globe and not just geologically." Snelling gave you such but you chose to stick to the Grand Canyon narrrative that i dismissed.
Prove what is unscientific about the link that i gave you from answersingenesis, or are you really afraid of something?

Where in it do you say you are posting it to verify his credentials? Nah, you were hoping I would be as disingenuous as you and not read anything.

Pussyfooting lazy arse here is you.

Check the prior discussions and the image attached.

LordReed:
LoLz. Says the guy who dismissed the very thing he linked to. Find someone else who wants to discuss magic or miracles with you, I am not interested.

i did not bring up a discussion on miracles with you, did i? When you have a scientific rebuttal to the link that i gave you, let me know instead of lazy excuses.

LordReed:
Well then I am not interested in talking about magic with you. When you have evidence that can be verified let me know.

i don't know anything about magic. If you refer to miracles, i did not bring up a discussion on miracles with you, did i? When you have a scientific rebuttal to the link that i gave you, let me know instead of lazy excuses.

LordReed:
Then you dismissed even what you brought as scientific evidence in favour of magic.

In the first place, i did not bring it as scientific evidence, i brought the answersingenesis link for your consideration.
https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/evidences-genesis-flood/?srsltid=AfmBOorKOBH3FZYZBvcRrvTVOqMtxhv3_9kLjH5osBXlBGvUOzPDC5Gk

i only added the other link for you to verify your requirements that the writer was indeed a Ph.D in Geology with papers in scientific journals. But you insist on stating it as evidence when i never made it one.
In the second place, i did not dismiss his writings but the rebuttal that you put forth which focused on the Grand Canyon and left every other thing that Snelling mentioned. Snelling's PROPOSING that ice melted is not evidence, is it? Or is a proposal a fact? If you want to talk in terms of science, read the answersingenesis link and fault it scientifically, not all these pussyfooting.

DaddyCoool:
And I accepted your explanation indicating you've lost the scientific argument while conceding I lost the holistic argument. (Holistic includes things science can't explain, things we don't know, things we know wrong, and things we don't know that we don't know)

We never had a scientific argument, talk less of winning or losing one.

LordReed:
Why are you being disingenuous? Did this conversation begin with you claiming it was a miracle or you asking about scientific expertise?

We didn't start talking with THIS conversation, did we. We've been talking for years i suppose. i asked you the science angle and your requirements in THIS conversation. i have been telling you about faith and your huge misuse of your faith for years. Your faith is in science, it doesn't have to be limited to this like i always said. It's what i tried explaining to DaddyCoool.

LordReed:
Again that's your business I stated my criteria very clearly.

Your criteria was met, i provided your approved scientist to talk on the subject. You refuse to take his talk on the subject but chose to choose other convenient things.

LordReed:
YOU posted the researchgate link.

And clearly stated the reason.

LordReed:
LoLz. Says the one who is dismissed the very publication he asked me to look at.

Answersingenesis? Nah. The other publications simply affirmed the scientist status of Snelling.

LordReed:
That's your business. You asked me what I would consider as expertise and I specified scientific journal publication as one criteria.

You're not ready.

DaddyCoool:
Why not just tell him what you told me to end the argument - that miracles were involved and anything is possible when miracles are involved

Because i told him that several times over the years but he keeps forgetting.

Believeintruth:
Who are the they? Have some courage and don't be a coward and mention them.

You.

Don't loud it, they are happier to hear that the refinery does not work or that it's blending pepper and tomatoes.

LordReed:
Go look at my response to you about Answersingenesis.

It made no sense. You said "Answersingenesis.org is not a scientific journal." i showed you that the page in reference is written by a scientist, a Ph.D Geologist. Almost everything he wrote on that particular link are geologically relevant. It's like a scientist talking on television and we discard him because what he is saying is on TV not in a journal.

tctrills:
Palliatives are not in our constitution so the federal government can remove it. And for a very poor country like Nigeria, every 0.04% of our budget matters to a serious government.
Once again, let me clearly state that the States do not decide how the federal budget is spent.
I also think that it is a bit irresponsible to assume that 0.04% of the budget wasted would not hurt or kill in a country where people die of poverty. Every Kobo wasted would ultimately lead to death one way or the other. We can't afford to waste a Kobo without deadly results in a country like 9ja

Clearly a case of focusing on the gnat and stubbornly swallowing the camel. Your so called sustainable projects are littered over the over 99.95%. Giving is not a waste, some people were helped, some poor people smiled, some poor people didn't go hungry.
While i am of the teach a man how to fish instead of giving him fish school, i clearly accept that some men need fish as an emergency before they can later be taught to fish. 10k even 2k can help some people and it has. FG has every constitutional right to give, just like any other institution or philanthropy.

LordReed:
The bolded makes it clear there is no further need to engage with you on this topic.

No, your refusal to rebut the submissions from the answersin genesis link for your geological evidence does that.

LordReed:
So I took a look at the listed works of Snelling on the page you linked and I think the one most relevant to this conversation is: Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: A Global Flood Model of Earth History

To start with this is what Snelling et al say about their work in the paper on page 2:

i would think that the most relevant of Snelling's work to the conversation was here in https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/evidences-genesis-flood/?srsltid=AfmBOorKOBH3FZYZBvcRrvTVOqMtxhv3_9kLjH5osBXlBGvUOzPDC5Gk
Why did you go looking for what was not missing? You asked for an expert and gave your specs, Snelling fits your requirements obviously. Reason why i again asked you, "Are you saying that he is not an expert, or that anything he says outside scientific journals is not expert enough?"

With this in mind we should expect that the model will explain any physical data we find in any part of the world since it is claiming there was a global catastrophic flood.

Reading through the paper the thing that jumped out at me is their description of the pre and post flood conditions and how they would affect 2 disparate regions of the earth: the Sahara desert and Antartica. I will explain why shortly.

In order for the earth to even be remotely habitable during such a catastrophic deluge, the writers propose that magma released from the deep in the earth due to the tectonic shifts.

Their PROPOSALS are not Bible or my problem, it's their problem and that of those looking for scientific proof for a miracle.

By there own suggestion the north and south poles where completely inundated by water that is warmer than our current ocean temperatures by as much as 20 degrees. In our current climate struggles we are seeing large swaths of permafrost melting because of a 2 degree change in temperature. So for a 20 degree change in temperature in water covering the entire Antartica it follows that ALL of the ice there would have melted. And that would even play well into the flood scenario since it would add to the volume of water covering the globe.

Suggestions are not the Bible. The Bible says
Gen 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Evidently, the flood was to destroy all flesh, not to go melting ice and whatnots.

Now this is where it gets interesting. If all of the ice in Antarctica melted then we should expect to find that the oldest ice layers in Antarctica would not be older than 6,000 years at the most and 4,400 years (the estimated time frame of the flood) at the least. However the evidence we find is that we have ice layers way older that 6,000 years. Matter of fact an article from 4 days ago states that ice dated to 1.2 million years ago has been found in Antarctica. Snelling et al's model has therefore failed to account for this data.

The Bible says nothing about ice melting.
Gen 7:19  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
You surely don't need to be reminded that ice is water. It doesn't have to melt to be water. 

On to the Sahara desert. Imagine that the Sahara was inundated and then dried out 5 months later what should we expect. Well they say that the world was warmer immediately post the flood and has gotten cooler since then. Therefore we should find that the Sahara has been cooling from around that time but this is not what we find. Instead the evidence on hand shows that the Sahara has been getting more arid for the past 10,000 years. Again this flood model fails to account for the very obvious physical evidence we have.

Who are the they saying? Are they not your experts in Geology? Did i not tell you that no scientist has experienced a global flood to be exact about what will be or was? But you said no, science will know. Now i gave you scientist and they don't seem to know. My Bible knows fa.

There are even more in depth criticisms of Snelling's work. Here is one: Reply to Andrew Snelling’s arguments regarding cliffs formed in the walls of the Grand Canyon=https://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Nr49Snelling.pdf
Lemme see whether you will read it. LoLz.

You should probably be reading submissions from the answersin genesis link for your geological evidence for divine judgement. Like i said earlier, one man's expert is another man's apprentice. The argument you presented seemed to have some fixated obsession on the Grand Canyon while Snelling talked extensively about fossils and then sediments spread across continents(continental-scale sedimentary layers). Snelling also argues for massive forces deposit and no sign of millions of years interval. i expect the critics to scientifically rebut these many issues instead of using some microscopic 'but' on the grand canyon as a rebuttal.

Zico5:
They were saying it cos they did not know no one collect. Swear with everything you have if truly this government paid any palliative. I'm in Lagos and I never heard anyone collected anything unless you guys are paying ghosts.

Check few posts just above this, one guy posted with picture.

Ojuntana:
Those are the lies you tell yourself in your APC coven
Nigeria was great before PDP took over in 1999 and they then mismanaged it. Bloody lie!!
Nigeria was comatose in 1999. Foreign reserve was just about $5bn with various embargoes and humongous debts. Minimum wage was a paltry N700 with high unemployment rate
PDP handed over a far better Nigeria to APC who have steadily taken Nigeria back to the pre-1999 era where the middle class was a struggling class.
More Nigerians are now using sawdust and charcoal than before 1999!!
Same rail was built under GEJ. You bloody liars. Can you point to one rail that has been fully paid for in Nigeria? Even the Lagos rails are not fully paid for. Who is deceiving who? And have we stopped using locomotives or are you an illiterate?
Did we stop borrowing to pay salaries after Okonjo Iweala?

i have no idea of an APC coven, i simply tell you what every normal Nigerian knows. Nigeria has always been a great country with vast resources, both human and natural. The PDP mismanaged that. Everyone knows that the military did likewise so we're not discussing the military era, or are we? The only people who think military is somehow better are not APC folks but sore losers of the 2023 elections, especially the young Obi followers who prefer a military takeover is their candidate is not president. The PDP years saw the biggest oil boom which was global. They refused to take advantage of it and of the goodwill enjoyed from the commity of nations around. Instead, the stole us dry and gave virtually nothing in infrastructure, neither saved for the rainy day. The fx reserves fell to about $30 billion, the lowest in 10 years. The CBN accused the government of a missing $20billion aside from other thefts. By the time they were voted out, the country was already in trouble, and like you accepted unable to pay common salaries.
By 2013, the only operational segment of Nigeria's rail network was between Lagos and Kano. Passenger trains took 31 hours to complete the journey at an average speed of 45 km/h. Today, the APC has given us standard guage lines Abuja to Kaduna (187 km) opened officially on 26 July 2016. Warri–Itakpe Railway that begun in 1987 was completed by APC in 2020. The 157 kilometre Lagos–Ibadan section began construction in March 2017 and was inaugurated on 10 June 2021. This is not forgetting the modern station buildings that have been constructed along all new standard gauge lines, the Lagos metro lines and all the other ongoing constructions. Which one did PDP build or complete aside from using them for election campaign and promises? Kindly bring up proof of the current FG borrowing to pay salaries. i have receipts of Okonjo having headache and borrowing which you agree to.

Ojuntana:
Sharing rice in the pages of newspaper

Thankfully a witness is just up above my posts. Scroll up. Or search for videos on the internet.

leo22:
So you mean you actually got your own palliative? You can swear?

Yes, there is nothing wrong with palliatives, but when the pains caused by a few is used to steal from them, it not just wrong, but evil!

It is gross foolishness and a display of retardant behavior to defend an obvious lie and wickedness because of tribe, ethnicity or religion.

Grow up

Just google "FG palliatives for 2024" and see the results, including videos. That you did not get does not automatically mean nobody got. Scroll up a bit from this post, someone just posted picture of what he got. If you have no proof, stop calling people thieves, false accusation is wrong and a sin.