₦airaland Forum

There is no dilemma.

Nobody here said we are saved by works.

The Catholic Church says we are saved by the grace of God but faith and works are our necessary response.

Both passages fit well into that doctrine but your false doctrine contradicts James 2:24.

rabzy:
Was Judas a known and celebrated thief when he was called, did he come and declare himself as a thief before he was called. Was he even a thief when he was called or became a thief when he had d opportunity of being the treasurer. What value did Jesus say was found in his act of stealing and betrayal. Judas allowed satan to eventually have a complete hold on him and that was why Jesus called him d son of destruction.

Jesus knew he was a thief, yet Jesus accepted him as a human being with dignity and value. Jesus even sent him to preach and heal. Jesus ate with him from the same bowl.

Same with Matthew. Jesus knew he was a sinner yet he called him. Jesus even went to feast with him and other sinners in his house. Jesus did not accept their sins but accepted and loved them.

Same with you. Jesus knows you are a terrible sinner, yet he accepts and loves you.

Why can you not love and accept your neighbour who is a sinner?

Is it because his sin is different from yours?

Oduduwaboy:
I love the Catholic church. It will soon agree with us that there is no god!

Stop deceiving yourself.

asalimpo:
The catholic church has an editable bible?
The bible is clear on this thngs - nobody else opinion matters.

1. So how does the Bible ask us to treat gays?

2. Don't forget that the new testament was written by Catholics and the Bible was compiled at a Synod of Catholic Bishops in Rome in 382, similar to this Synod. They have the authority to interprete the Bible, not you.

Omowhara:
Smh.. Instead of focusing on the important issue of marriage by choice for Rev. Fathers, bishops and cardinals in order to ameliorate the level sexual temptation, molestations and abused that ve rocked the catholic church in recent years he's talking gay shit.. And one of the reasons given was that catholic church has been losing members to other churches due to its stance on gay shit.. WTF!!! Are laws of the church created to please man or God?

No law has been created.

No law will be created.

Nobody from the Catholic Church gave you that reason.

If you don't have facts, maybe you should shut up.

The ignoramus doesn't realize that even Peter never saw the book of Revelations. It was not part of his scriptures.

urheme:
where is the God in your heart when you follow saint who insults and call people fools, beside you are incapable of giving any person the scripture, God has already poured His words in our heart, the scripture is actually meant for fools like you who farms there.

I reject your foolish advice,
present a good argument and we can start from there

Was is not St. Paul that said "oh foolish Galatians?" (Gal 3:1)

Do you have God in your heart more than him?

Your are terribly ignorant, yet will not shut up and learn.

Good morning friends.

since I have not been praying for you according to the roster, I hereby ask God to be with all of you in everyway.

I will keep you in my prayer at the Blessed Sacrament Chapel.

God bless you

May God bless our Catholic Bishops for quitting at the time they did.

They must have been truly inspired by the Holy Spirit. What wisdom!

asalimpo:
you accept them but not their ways? Clarify?

Jesus accepted, even called Judas, but did not accept his ways.

You clarify that and leave Jesus' Church alone.

Bobbysworld28:
Do u believe dt only one person has revelation? Arent we all children of God? I believe this is iron sharpening iron. I am willing to learn from u, but r u willing to hear from me?

I am already learning from you.

I am learning that you are many protestants hypocritically cling to lies so that they can practise their own customized christianity in which there is no sacrifice, only benefits.

The Holy Spirit says "a man is justified by works, not by faith alone." Learn from him, even if you dislike me or the Catholic Church.

I know that the next thing you will be looking for is not how to humble yourself and accept the truth, but another way to twist the truth to fit into your lie.

Dominus vobiscum.

You protestants just enjoy deceiving yourselves.

James 2

21 - Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 - Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect?

See the work that v21 says. He offered up his son!

Why are you bent on contradicting God and clinging to the heresy called protestantism?

Come out of that LIE. It is from SATAN!

Bobbysworld28:
You can make ur point known without insults. Not everyone who disagrees with u is a 'protestant'

Back to ur point. I see it! If u go back a bit to start reading frm James 2:21. As proof, Apostle James said Abraham was justified by his works. What works? He BELIEVED in God and it was credited to him as righteousness. So the 'works' James was telling u was to believe God!
Feel free to share your own view without insults pls

Bidam:
Italo, you still havent changed.

You want me to change and start disbelieving what the Holy Spirit says in James 2:24?

Never!

Bobbysworld28:
Faith AND good works!

The capitalized is my issue

James 2:24 says the opposite of what you say.

Why should I believe you and disbelieve the Holy Spirit?

!

Bobbysworld28:
1. You are saved by faith already. Righteousness is imputed to u as u become born again. Ur salvation is not later after ur works are judged. Reconciling with God (in & thru Christ) is salvation. Good works doesnt even come into play in this transaction. If it did, there would hv been no need for Jesus

2. Yes! Jesus said so

3. We are already citizens of heaven now! The life we have received is an outpouring of love. We cannot NOT do good. Once u receive the Holy Spirit, like Jesus, u go abt doing good! It is an offshoot of this marvelous fellowship we have with the Father through his Spirit.

4. No sir!

2. You say a man can have faith in Jesus and go to hell. Yet you say all that's needed to be saved is faith. You are contradicting yourself.

What is it that can make a man of great faith go to hell, if not lack of good works?

4. You say 'no,' but God says 'YES!' A man is justified by works, not by faith ALONE!

Why are you guys bent on contradicting God?

dein77:
Its wisdom to know when to quit a discussion, especially when its obviously headed nowhere.

Sir, you need to actually carefully study James 2, from whence you have taken your first question. Apostle James was discussing various kinds of faith.

As for your third question, according to Gal 5:21-22, one of the fruits of a Christian is GOODNESS. A Christian cannot not do good; its his nature to do good. We have the Spirit of Christ. Christ went about doing good; we must also do good.

As for your fourth question, i say NO......No man can be justified by works; his works are dirty before God. No good resides in a man who is unregenerated.

If you still hold on to your opinion of justification by faith+works, then you need to discuss it with your pastors in your local assembly.

I have done the little i can to enlighten you on this issue.

Besides you are no position to calling a fellow Christian a Pharisee.......

So you just played around questions 1 and 2 without answering them...while you totally avoided question 3

You answered only the 4th question. You said "NO: no man can be justified by his works."

The Holy Spirit says through St. James in James 2:24: "do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?"

You see that you and all your fellow protestants are heretics...contradicting the Holy Spirit!

Now can you answer the other questions, let me show you how you false doctrine is from satan himself.

1. If you have faith, and no works, can that faith save you?

2. If you have so much faith that you perform miracles in Jesus' name, can you go to hell?

3. If you believe Jesus is Lord but do not do good to your neighbour, can you enter heaven?

4. A person is justified by WORKS, not by FAITH ALONE. Yes or No?

Please answer these "yes or no" questions.

dein77:
Bro, Ephesians 2 : 8-9 is your answer. It's fruitless arguing over what's crystal clear.

PastorKun:
Answering questions with irrelevant questions is "Evasive tactics 101". answer my question first before derailing the thread.

seems like you have nothing meaningful to say.

Bobbysworld28:
Agreed. 90% sha.
But pls go on

what is the 10% you disagree with?

PastorOluT:
Did u go to school at all, can't u see the context of Romans 2 that Paul was speaking to the Jews who trusted in the law?

I can see u are not just dumb bt lost in deceit n can never be helped.

Paul was writing to the Church in Rome. Christians!

He was only using the Jew-Gentile argument to prevent them from judging anyone the way you are judging non-Christians.

Amen. I believe Ephesians 2:8,9. It doesn't say we are saved through faith ALONE.

Now can you answer my questions or has it got to that time when the Pharisees bolt away looking stupid and confounded?

1. If you have faith, and no works, can that faith save you?

2. If you have so much faith that you perform miracles in Jesus' name, can you go to hell?

3. If you believe Jesus is Lord but do not do good to your neighbour, can you enter heaven?

4. A person is justified by WORKS, not by FAITH ALONE. Yes or No?

dein77:
Bro, Ephesians 2 : 8-9 is your answer. It's fruitless arguing over what's crystal clear.

Bobbysworld28:
I dont even knw u, italo. U were rambling abt private jet and pastors in an unco-ordinated manner.
If it seems I have come after you, then it means u planted a bulls-eye on ur back.
I want you to summarize what ur issues are so that we can all learn along with u

We are saved by grace. Yes.

We are saved by grace through faith. Yes.

However, we are not saved by grace through FAITH ALONE...but by FAITH WORKING through LOVE. (FAITH and GOD WORKS).

You disagree?

That's the problem. You haven't been reading.

Once you saw the moniker "italo," you set out to attack my person.

Face the argument...forget me.

Bobbysworld28:
Whats ur argument? U have been neither here nor there. Please, let us hear you out.

[quote author=dein77 post=27101058][/quote]So a good man who dies without hearing of Jesus will go to hell?

Prayer is a good work...and the good thief prayed. It was all he had the opportunity to do on the cross.

God doesn't judge a person unfairly. His ordinary way of saving is through Christ but he wont send a good Bhuddist who never heard of Christ to hell just because hes not a Christian. God is not like you pentecostals.

I believe all the verses you quoted. They dont contradict my view. I believe we are saved by grace through faith. But nowhere do the verses say we are saved through faith alone.

Now that I have answered you, can you answer these?

1. If you have faith, and no works, can that faith save you?

2. If you have so much faith that you perform miracles in Jesus' name, can you go to hell?

3. If you believe Jesus is Lord but do not do good to your neighbour, can you enter heaven?

4. A person is justified by WORKS, not by FAITH ALONE. Yes or No?

dein77:
I vehemently disagree.

For by grace are ye saved through faith: and thatnot of yyourselves: it is the gift of God.
Not of WORKS lest any man should boast. Ephe 2:8-9.

Being justified by FAITH, we have peace with God through Jesus Christ. Rom 5.1.

It is the good works we do after faith that are acceptable unto God, not before.

You can't work with a company till you are gainfully employed by it. Faith is the ID card with which you can pass through the company's gate and get access. Thereafter, your works can be appraised by the company.

In closing, tell me the good works done by the thief on the Cross that granted him paradise!

If this brief explanation isn't clear to you, then there's nothing anyone else or I can do about your opinion.

Face the argument...forget me.

Bobbysworld28:
You are the one attacking people wrongly. I am only making an observation!

Now you're saying it wasn't the Holy Spirit that inspired Romans 2?

Ehn, pastor olodo?!

And you still are too dishonest to answer whether believers who do bad are heaven-bound while non-believers who are good are hell-bound!

PastorOluT:
Smile, now I know u are dumb for sure for surely I use to give u reasonable doubt before.

U quote a scripture out of context n the only one u see to back up ur lame claim. In what context was Paul saying that, u use a verse out of context to negate all Jesus said? I pity u sincerely.

What does John 3:16- 17; 17:1 n a whole lot mean to u?

I will be back to quote all those scriptures not for u 'cos u case is done bt for others on this thread.

Striving against sin is part of holiness.

Striving to do good always is part of holiness.

These are the things that you scammers avoid.

Show me where I said "holiness=sinlessness!"

Goshen360:
We do NOT take sides with sin neither do we support sinful acts but you know sin comes in different forms.....in thought, acts and words. So the fact that a man doesn't committ sin in act doesn't mean he don't committ it in thought or words.

These holiness preachers see sin virtually in everything a christian does. They teach and carry sin consciousness everywhere rather than teaching and carrying Christ righteousness everywhere.

What we're asking YOU to do is show us where HOLINESS means\or equal to SINLESSNESS.....if you are part of the "holiness" movement.

PastorKun:
What has these questions got to do with the question asked you As I said earlier if you are referring to the recent scandals of Orisejafor, oyakhilome and Tb joshua, I condemn their acts in all it's entirety and I have no regard for these charlatans so stop asking me to define their deceitful acts.

Now can you kindly define Idolatory and stop evading the question.

if you will not define "adultery" "invisible bomb" and "money laundering, "...

I will not define idolatry.

I don't know why you're mentioning names.

I understand the mystery of redemption more than you.

I agree with practically all you said, except that, not just faith is needed for salvation but FAITH AND GOOD WORKS...as attested to by countless passages in the Bible.

Do you agree?

Yes or no?

dein77:
Obviously, you either don't understand the mystery of redemption or you're simply being sarcastic.

The death and resurrection of Christ paved the way for our salvation, but faith in Him is required if we must enjoy this redemption. These are issues that are taught in the first few days after conversion.

Cornelius was accepted in the beloved due to the finished work of Christ on the cross. Peter had to show him the way of faith so he could appropriate his redemption blessings.

Have a great service today. It's being nice talking with you. Our ultimate purpose is to be prepared for His eventually return.

Shalom.

Bobbysworld28:
Y are you always this childish? It is obvious u r wired wrongly.

ad hominem.

Dont attack my person simply because you can't face up to my argument.