JackBizzle:


No one.

Lol...because you're ashamed to admit it was the Catholic Church.

yetseyi:


Do you really mean what you just typed.

The bible is not the primary teacher

Yes I mean it.

Jesus never mentioned "bible." The bible never mentioned "bible."

Rather, Jesus gave us the Church (Matt16:18) and the Bible says The Church (not the bible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1Tim3:15). The bible never existed until the Catholic Church compiled and canonized in in 382AD.

JackBizzle:



Of course! Atheism is useless in theory!

What do you think I have been trying to say?


You don't believe in fairies. You are an a-fairiest. But do you refer to yourself as an "a-fairiest"? No. There is no need for the word "a-fairiest"- you are not defined by your disbelief in fairies. Why then should there be the word "atheist"?
===========================================================


That being said, christians were not the first to do hospices. So your original claim about the catholic church inventing hospices is a lie.

Who invented hospices then? Your village Atheists?

JackBizzle:



This is where I agree with you. Atheism does not stop one from being indoctrinated.

The problem is that atheism itself is not indoctrination, however, christianity itself is indoctrination

Coolusername disagrees with you. He thinks atheism prevents people from indoctrination.

Who is right, according to logic?

JackBizzle:



If he said that there is atheist philosophy, then is wrong.


When two atheists debate, the right person is decided by logic.

When two christians debate, there is no right person is either decided by the pastor, or convoluted logic of the bible

So who is right between you and plaetton according to logic?

yetseyi:



Loool, I dunno if there's a verse that called the scriptures Bible.

Whats the link between this and my.question

The link is that the Bible is not the primary teacher of the Christian faith. It doesn't mention everything Christians should know.

The Church is the primary teacher of the Christian faith.

CoolUsername:


You're the one showing signs of dishonesty here, wanting to be worshiped as a god is not atheism. It's just a more brutal version what Jesus did. He's making himself a deity and banning all competing religions. So how is that atheism?

You don't have proof that he's making himself a deity. But there's adequate proof that millions of North Koreans are Atheists and are indoctrinated with many things like propaganda against the west, love for the "Dear Leader," etc. I don't know how you're on this earth yet ignorant of these things. Are you saying to me that an Atheist cannot be indoctrinated? Please don't say it. Even your fellow Atheists know that's a daft opinion.

CoolUsername:


Your 'spiritual evidence' has no place in the real world, it doesn't do things that can't possibly be faked (such as regrowing the limbs of amputees), it doesn't feed the hungry, it doesn't stop children from being raped, it doesn't build cars, planes, or rockets, -at least scientific theories can be put into practice, thereby giving science credibility- and finally, it hasn't stopped climate change that threatens to end the world as we know it in the near future.

1. Miracles happen every day.

2. Science fails everyday.

CoolUsername:



From Google:
atheism - /ˈeɪθɪɪz(ə)m/
noun
1. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Do you thoroughly read through your comments before posting? How can you call people that clearly worship a man as a deity atheists? It's disingenuous.

Prove that they worship him as deity! You're the disingenuous one. People who worship money, are they worshiping it as deity?

If you're so ignorant, grab a dictionary and look up "worship."

CoolUsername:



Maybe you should ask these guys:
hubpages.com/politics/Atheist-Charities-2

Maybe you should ask Mark Zuckerburg, who gave almost all he has to charity.

EDIT: Added a more credible source.

Show me where the meaning of Atheism says anything about charity, as you're attempting to do with worship.

There is nothing that says Atheism excludes worship and includes charity.

johnw74:



The actions-works are His, not mine, lest they be like filthy rags.

Christianity can be about many things, like witnessing, for one thing.

How does having action-works with your faith make this quote false, as you say it is?

Whether the good actions are his or yours or Buharis, you must do them to be saved.

Those who didn't do them in Matt25:31-46 went to hell. Those who did them went to heaven.

johnw74:

Christians are even saved through faith, not by works,
yet italo say's that the quote: "Christianity is having faith in Jesus Christ", is false

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yes, I believe we are saved by grace, through faith...but our good works must necessarily accompany our faith. That's why Jesus invited those who did good works in Matt25:31-46 which you're pretending not to see.

James2:20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?

No wonder there are religious and religion-inspired charities in every corner of the globe but we can't find Atheist charities anywhere.

Are the so-called "generous" children not making it to adulthood?

Lies!

CoolUsername:


I've always thought that most atheists dropped out from one faith or the other but I may be wrong.

The thing is that you aren't citing credible sources. You're far too emotional-minded for unbiased discussion.

You want me to give you credible sources to show that millions of North Korean Atheists are indoctrinated? You don't know that yet? In what corner of oblivion do you live?

Are you really ignorant of it or just being dishonest?

CoolUsername:


I don't see how accepting a conclusion that is backed up by empirical evidence and has been endorsed by others using empirical methods when you can't come up with a better conclusion, means it's perfect.

I don't see how accepting a teaching that is backed by spiritual evidence as perfect and has been endorsed by others using spiritual methods when you can't come up with a better conclusion, is wrong

CoolUsername:



You understand the meaning of atheism, right? Worship has no place in it. Don't give the term a new meaning to suit your cause.

Please try to remain emotionally detached so that you can argue honestly.

Then why are North Korean Atheists worshipping Kim Jong Un?

And who said "worship" has no place in Atheism? Tell me who said so? Show me the meaning?

Does "charity" have a place in Atheism? Show me the definition that says so.

yetseyi:


Yep

Give me a bible verse that says "bible."

CoolUsername:


People being indoctrinated to worship leaders is not atheism, there are no gods in atheism.

You said Atheism "allows people break out of indoctrination and have an identity of their own."

False! There are tens millions of Atheists that are indoctrinated!

Face it.

CoolUsername:


And tell me who thinks science journals are perfect. You cant just make a baseless claim.

There are many of them here who would accept anything that is backed by peer-reviewed science journals and reject anything not backed by such. That's implicitly saying it's perfect.

CoolUsername:


We have atheist charities ad atheist havens in several countries.

Lol...when atheists worship a dictator, you distance them from Atheism; when they have charities, you associate them with Atheism.

You're always dubious.

JackBizzle:



I never said that there's an afterlife. I don't like this your strawman method of arguing. I stated that the villagers gave the terminally ill to the herbalist to help them pass on to the afterlife- the villagers believe it, while I do not.

Oh, so even the hospice you claim (without proof) is in your village wasn't run by atheists.

Goes to buttress my point that Atheism is useless to humanity.

CoolUsername:


It allows people break out of indoctrination and have an identity of their own

There are many Atheists (tens of millions) that are/were indoctrinated to worship leaders like Kim Jong Un, Stalin and follow the doctrine imposed on them.

CoolUsername:



. No self-flagellation to purge sin or anything like that. Nobody is perfect, so there's no such thing is papal infallibility, no book is perfect, nothing is above criticism.

There are millions of Atheists that believe that scientists and their journals are perfect.

CoolUsername:



If we don't check ourselves, we become trapped in our views, too jaded to listen to differing opinions and that's wrong.

I check myself and listen to differing opinions. Do you?

In summary: you still can't mention any tangible benefit of Atheism to humans.

mmsen:

Atheism is not a body of work or a collection of books, fairytales or even a creed. It is the absence of belief in the numerous mythical gods that mankind has created.

No matter how you baptize it, Atheism has contributed zero to mankind. It's useless.

mmsen:

Many people who have not bought into the lie of religion (some of whom have been forced to bow to the power of the church in order to access their vast resources) have dedicated their lives to finding out about the world, hence why we have modern health care and other scientific discoveries that the church has deemed heretical (Galileo for example).

Galileo was a Catholic till death. Try again.

mmsen:


The Catholic Church is one of the world's wealthiest organizations - giving something back to the sheep that they loot every week by way of emotional robbery is not something that should be praised. What they do is akin to a carjacker giving his victim bus fare to get home.

Charity has little or nothing to do with wealth. St Maximillian Kolbe gave his life for a stranger in Auschwitz concentration camp. He didn't do that charity with money or for money. He did it for love. Love that your bitter empty self cannot fathom. Mother Teresa gave up everything to help the poor, derided and abandoned. She even had to fight her superiors to allow her do it fully. She had zero money to start with and zero money in the end. There are millions of examples.

JackBizzle:

And I would say that he is wrong. Atheism is just the disbelief in God. It is pretty much empty after that. In reality, there is no such thing as "atheist philosophy".


It would be like saying there are people that do not believe in fairies. We call them A-fairiests. Would there be anything like a-fairiest philosophy? No!! So why is there now atheist philosophy?

Why should your definition/understanding of Atheism supercede the definition/understanding of another Atheist.

Are you the Grand Mufti or General Overseer of the religion of Atheism?

Atheism has given zero to mankind. It's useless.

JackBizzle:



This guy ehh....you can lie for the catholic church.


The article tying the vatican to fronting for mafia money is what? It is a lie abi?

mtchew.

Read the article. It's unproven.

Next?!

johnw74:



I claimed I'm not pentecostal, and I claimed Christianity is about having faith is Jesus Christ,
which of my claims is false?




Ha ha, You rc's just keep showing what liars and false accusers you are.

I'll just assume your "christianity" is not the christianity Jesus talked about which has to do with both faith and action.

After 52 posts, only plaetton has has been able to say that atheism gives us philosophies (that he can't specify or mention)

JackBizzle:



^^^
@ Italo, please learn not lie and prostituute yourself for the catholic church. Can you see the honesty from your mate, Reyginus?


Good one, Reyginus

I don't know what you stand for. You said there's an afterlife...yes or no?

mmsen:


The scandal at the Vatican bank - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/3029390a-5c68-11e3-931e-00144feabdc0.html

Vatican Bank 'allowed clergy to act as front for Mafia' - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vatican-bank-allowed-clergy-to-act-as-front-for-mafia-2158692.html

Vatican bank image hurt as JP Morgan closes account - http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-vatican-bank-idUKBRE82I0P820120319

Vatican Makes Money Laundering List Of U.S. State Department - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/vatican-money-laundering_n_1334704.html

Embezzlement Is Found in Many Catholic Dioceses - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/05/us/05church.html

I don't know if you read the links you posted or you just searched on Google for any negative financial news about the Church, then posted.

All that is in the links is allegations, arrests, surveys. I didn't see a single case of any one acting on behalf of the Church found guilty for anything.

Also, if I help my parish in offering collection, then steal part of the money, does that mean that the Charity works of the Catholic Church in my parish and all over the world are aimed at stealing money? Of course not. But you're bitter and scatter-brained. You can't understand that.

Reyginus:
I don't think it's honest trying to defend the atrocities committed in the name of the church in the past. You can say it's anti Christian move reflecting the hijack of the church by devilish men. Trying to say it never happened is not only dishonest but also inhuman.

I concur. Anyone trying to say any atrocity that actually happened, never happened, is being inhuman...

...and anyone trying to say good works done for humanity in the name of God and the Church, never happened, is being inhuman.

plaetton:


C'mon italo.
You don fall my hand.

Haba. Do you suffer this half-think disease as well?

Atheism, unlike the Catholic Church, is not an organization.
Atheism, unlike the catholic church, is not the oldest, most continuous political Chancery in history.

Atheism, unlike the mother Church, is not a 2000 yr old social engineering platform.

But atheism has given us philosophies and philosophers.

Which philosophy has Atheism given humanity...

And how has this philosophy benefited humanity?

CoolUsername:


Damn gurl, you really hate us, right? Can't blame you too much though, you're just doing what you were told.

Just want you to know that we're here to stay, so you should try to come to terms with that.

You're arguing against your own imagination.

I never said I hate you, neither was I taught so.

You're just deviating because you don't want to face the truth I'm telling.

Kazna69:


Realest stuff I've seen on here. Preach bro. The Catholic Church is responsible. I remember the Spanish inquisition, the other one where they go on witch hunts killing without hard evidence, even going after intellectuals like Nostradamus, Da Vinci, & other smart people of their time. They suppress knowledge, cutting out the Apocryphas & the book of Enoch, changing Bible text all in a plot to gain control & amass wealth, power.

You're confused. It was protestants that cut out the Apocryphas, that's why they have 66 books in their bible. We have the Apocryphas, we call then Deuterocanonical books till date in our Bible of 73 books.

This is just to show how all you wrote up there is driven by ignorance and hate.

mmsen:
It's funny how Italo keeps talking about 'Atheism' as though it is a body in the manner of the Catholic Church.

I don't talk like that. I just say that Atheism has nothing to offer humanity but bitterness, emptiness and destruction. While the Catholic Church offers health care, education, various forms of help to people in need, including atheists.

mmsen:

To be an atheist is to deny the theory of god/gods.

As to the comment about the Catholic Church being one of the world's biggest charities - the charitable sector is one of the best ways of perpetuating fraud.

It's not "one of the..." It's the biggest charity organization in the world. Do you have proof of fraud...or you're just jealous that some humans love to do good while you sit in emptiness and bitterness.

mmsen:


The Catholic Church has its own bank through which it has laundered mafia proceeds - money made from prostitution, gambling, illicit drugs and other vices that the mother church likes to preach against.

No proof. Envious hater trying hard to discredit good works done for humanity because he and his fellow atheists can't do it.

yetseyi:



Yeah I meant the apostles

Biblical ref please for your assertion.

You want me to give you biblical verse where the Bible said "Peter is the first Pope" and "the other apostles are elders/bishops/cardinals?

Is that what you're asking?

yetseyi:
Was peter the first pope @ italo

What about other other disciples, whats their role.

Peter was the first Pope. The other apostles (if that's what you mean) were fellow elders/bishops/cardinals as you have today.

johnw74:

Boy, you rc's are sure blind.
I'm not pentocostal, but like your pope you don't care if what you say is true or not.

Being a Christian is not about whether you want to build a wall or not to keep out illegal immigrants and terrorists, it's about having faith in Jesus Christ, but you and pope don't get it.

I have already show how false this claim is. But you pretended to be blind (yet accuse us of being blind) because you hate the truth. I will re-post:

Being Christian is about Faith and action!

Matt25:34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

Who is blind between us?

Amberon:
Lmao are this poor in reasoning?
Now where is your "demi-god" mentioned in the bible?

I don't have a demi-god.

Peter was mentioned as the representative of God (in the Bible that was compiled and canonized by his 36th successor, Pope Damasus) ...and Pope Francis is Peter's 265th successor.)

I know it's painful for penterascals, but it's the truth. Take heart, truth is bitter.

JackBizzle:



Let's not derail our discussion!

Did the catholic church invent some torture devices? YES! (eg heretic fork)

Now....like I said, atheism is not a rival church or religion. I referred to the age of atheism and catholic church because it is commonly misunderstood that atheism is a reaction to the bible and christ.


Atheism is not a religion. It is not meant to better your life. It is not meant to give life purpose. It is only a philosophical stance on the non-existence of god.


Compare humanism to religion. That will make for a richer discussion where catholicism will end up looking like a relic from the dark ages

Summary: Atheism is useless. It only brings bitterness, emptiness and destruction.