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Kay17:Papal Bull from Pope Eugene IV: <Sicut Dudum>, 1435 On January 13, 1435, Eugene IV issued from Florence the bull <Sicut Dudum>. Sent to Bishop Ferdinand, located at Rubicon on the island of Lanzarote, this bull condemned the enslavement of the black natives of the newly colonized Canary Islands off the coast of Africa. The Pope stated that after being converted to the faith or promised baptism, many of the inhabitants were taken from their homes and enslaved: [b] "They have deprived the natives of their property or turned it to their own use, and have subjected some of the inhabitants of said islands to perpetual slavery (<subdiderunt perpetuae servituti> ![]() ![]() The date of this Bull, 1435, is very significant. Nearly 60 years before the Europeans were to find the New World, we already had the papal condemnation of slavery as soon as this crime was discovered in one of the first of the Portuguese geographical discoveries. Eugene IV was clear in his intentions both to condemn the enslavement of the residents of the Canary Islands, and to demand correction of the injustice within 15 days. Those who did not restore the enslaved to their liberty in that time were to incur the sentence of excommunication ipso facto. With <Sicut Dudum>, Eugene was clearly intending to condemn the enslavement of the people of the Canaries and, in no uncertain terms, to inform the faithful that what was being condemned was what we would classify as gravely wrong. Thus, the unjust slavery that had begun in the newly found territories was condemned, condemned as soon as it was discovered, and condemned in the strongest of terms. Papal Bull from Pope Paul III: <Sublimis Deus>, 1537 The pontifical decree known as "The Sublime God" has indeed had an exalted role in the cause of social justice in the New World. Recently, authors such as Gustavo Gutierrez have noted this fact: 'The bull of Pope Paul III, <Sublimis Deus> (June 2, 1537), is regarded as the most important papal pronouncement on the human condition of the Indians." It is, moreover, addressed to all of the Christian faithful in the world, and not to a particular bishop in one area, thereby not limiting its significance, but universalizing it. <Sublimis Deus> was intended to be issued as the central pedagogical work against slavery. Two other bulls would be published to implement the teaching of <Sublimis,> one to impose penalties on those who fail to abide by the teaching against slavery, and a second to specify the sacramental consequences of the teaching that the Indians are true men. The first central teaching of this beautiful work is the universality of the call to receive the Faith and salvation: "And since mankind, according to the witness of Sacred Scripture, was created for eternal life and happiness, and since no one is able to attain this eternal life and happiness except through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, it is necessary to confess that man is of such a nature and condition that he is capable to receive faith in Christ and that everyone who possesses human nature is apt for receiving such faith . . . Therefore the Truth Himself Who can neither deceive nor be deceived, when He destined the preachers of the faith to the office of preaching, is known to have said: 'Going, make disciples of all nations.' 'All,' he said, without any exception, since all are capable of the discipline of the faith." The teaching of <Sublimis> continued: "Seeing this and envying it, the enemy of the human race, who always opposes all good men so that the race may perish, has thought up a way, unheard of before now, by which he might impede the saving word of God from being preached to the nations. He has stirred up some of his allies who, desiring to satisfy their own avarice, are presuming to assert far and wide that the Indians of the West and the South who have come to our notice in these times be reduced to our service like brute animals, under the pretext that they are lacking the Catholic Faith. And they reduce them to slavery (<Et eos in servitutem redigunt> ![]() The common pretext of the allies of "the enemy of the human race," i.e. Satan, for enslaving the Indians was that they lacked the Faith. Some of the Europeans used the reasoning that converting the Indians should be accomplished by any means necessary, thus making the Faith an excuse for war and enslavement. Paul III stated that the practice of this form of servitude was "unheard of before now." This clearly indicates that the practice of enslaving an entire ethnic group of people—the Indians of South America—for no morally justifiable reason was indeed different from anything previously encountered. The second core teaching of <Sublimis Deus> which follows from this is the necessity of restoring and maintaining the liberty of the Indians: "Therefore, We, . . . noting that the Indians themselves indeed are true men and are not only capable of the Christian faith, but, as has been made known to us, promptly hasten to the faith' and wishing to provide suitable remedies for them, by our Apostolic Authority decree and declare by these present letters that the same Indians and all other peoples—even though they are outside the faith—who shall hereafter come to the knowledge of Christians have not been deprived or should not be deprived of their liberty or of their possessions. Rather they are to be able to use and enjoy this liberty and this ownership of property freely and licitly, and are not to be reduced to slavery, and that whatever happens to the contrary is to be considered null and void. These same Indians and other peoples are to be invited to the said faith in Christ by preaching and the example of a good life." Thus, we see that Eugene IV and Paul III did not hesitate to condemn the forced servitude of Blacks and Indians, and they did so once such practices became known to the Holy See. Their teaching was continued by Gregory XIV in 1591 and by Urban VIII in 1639. Indeed Urban, in his document <Commissum Nobis>, appealed to the teaching of his predecessors, particularly Paul III. The pontifical teaching was continued by the response of the Holy Office on March 20, 1686, under Innocent XI, and by the encyclical of Benedict XIV, <Immensa Pastorum>, on December 20, 1741. This work was followed by the efforts of Pius VII at the Congress of Vienna in 1815 to have the victors over Napoleon outlaw slavery. |
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chaosattractor:My dear, sorry, you know our discussion is long and needs more reading and researching. See the other one you posted six links, I had to read them all. I'm answering you, pastor, Kay, jack, and others...can you do it? Pls be patient |
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Kay17: False. The Church fought against slavery. Never endorsed it. Kay17: So what should King Richard have done to the 3000 jihadists? |
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PastorAIO: You just jump into a discussion and comment without properly analyzing the comment I was replying to. Is this the same PastorAIO I know or has someone hacked PastorAIO's account? Someone lied that it was Catholic majority countries that engaged in slavery...I pointed out that it was all the world. I never said slavery was okay. And I pointed out that Catholic majority countries is not equal to Catholic Church. She also point said a crusader king killed 3000. And I asked what was bad in killing 3000 terrorists in those circumstances. What should King Richard have done with them? The Crusade was a war...a just war. In war, people die. Enemies are captured. Captured enemies are sometimes killed if it is the only safe option. Then again, I don't know how you missed where I said that the Crusader king is not equal to catholic church. The Pope called a just crusade...it doesn't mean the actions of all the Christian soldiers were just. Please don't make waste time explaining these simple things to you of all people. You're smarter than this. |
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Kay17: The popes meant it...that's why it's virtuous. |
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JackBizzle: Hospice care is a type of care and philosophy of care that focuses on the palliation of a chronically ill, terminally ill or seriously ill patient's pain and symptoms, and attending to their emotional and spiritual needs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospice Show me where the Japanese or your villagers did the bold. |
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JackBizzle: Only an ignoramus like you doesn't know the difference between "seizing of money" and a "conviction." The money has been returned without any conviction. Also, Msgr Scarano has been cleared of money laundering. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/11/20/italy-promises-to-return-e23-million-to-vatican-bank/ http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/01/19/former-vatican-official-cleared-of-plotting-to-smuggle-millions-of-euros-into-italy/ Your slave masters told you when the arrest and seizure happened, but when the Vatican was cleared, they hid it from you. They don't want you to break free from anti-religious indoctrination. |
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johnw74: Wrong as usual. Here is your claim that is false again. Read it slowly this time, without leaving out any part. You keep pretending (like the devil) you never said or saw the beginning part. Being a Christian is not about whether you want to build a wall or not to keep out illegal immigrants and terrorists, it's about having faith in Jesus Christ, but you and pope don't get it. I repeat, that claim is false! Christianity includes what you do to strangers, like building or not building walls...or letting or not letting them in. That's what Matt25:31-46 tells us. |
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chaosattractor: Hospice care is a type of care and philosophy of care that focuses on the palliation of a chronically ill, terminally ill or seriously ill patient's pain and symptoms, and attending to their emotional and spiritual needs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospice Nowhere does your link say the Japanese did the bold. |
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chaosattractor: You don't know what you're saying. Al Azhar didn't gain university status until 1961. It was nothing more than a school of theology...a Madrassa. Till date, its stated goals are promoting Islam and Arabic. Is that the modern university system? No. University of Bologna was the first university in the world. Even the word "university" is from Latin. |
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chaosattractor: There is no proof of the bold in your links...or anywhere else. |
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chaosattractor:Biased article with bogus allegations. No proof...no one convicted...nothing! Just more like beer-parlour hateful allegations...'That woman na ashewo...' 'that man na tiff.' To be continued... |
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chaosattractor: False! It was all the world. The African who sold their brothers and neighbours were not Catholic. The Arabian slave traders were not Catholic. The N Korean govt that still sends hundreds of thousands of its own citizens to labour camps is Atheistic, not Catholic. The US was never Catholic majority, the UK was not Catholic majority, France has had an anti-religious govt since the French Revolution almost 300 years ago. Also, "Catholic-majority countries" is not equal to Catholic Church. chaosattractor:"Crusader King" is not equal to Catholic Church. Besides, what's wrong in killing 3000 terrorists? If Nigerian Army caught 3000 Boko Haram members in King Richards circumstances, what would you have them do? To be continued... |
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JackBizzle: Ecomog peace keeping mission in Liberia as called Ecowas was a good thing despite the raping of women and stealing of resources by soldiers (which wasn't called by Ecowas). The Crusade as called by the Pope was a good and holy duty, if soldiers grabbed land illegally and mistreated the Jews unjustly, that is bad, but you'll have to prove it and prove that the Church called for that. |
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JackBizzle: She has far more brains and tact than you. Learn from her articulate argument. But I'm coming for her. |
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Geist: Told ya! |
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Kay17: Never said so. The Allied war against the Nazis was a good thing...but did some soldiers act outside the authority of the Allied Nations? definitely. The Crusades were a good and just thing, I repeat. |
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wiegraf: 1. Hundreds of priests were defrocked for child abuse. Bitter haters like you always avoid that. 2. If an official loots, and according to the law of the land is imprisoned for 5 years, rehabilitated, counseled and released...then the Governor gives him another appointment, as is allowed by the law, then he loots again, I cannot say 'Nigeria did wrong.' same with a petty thief that is released back to society...or a Pedophile priest that is reprimanded, forgiven, counseled and reassigned. wiegraf: If Bush went to war in contravention of US Law, then it can be said that he alone should be responsible. Why was Saddam Hussein Executed for using the institutions of the state at his disposal to commit crimes and not the whole of Iraq? Why were the Nazis tried and not Germany. When politicians use state institutions illegally to steal money, do you say "Nigeria stole Nigeria's money?" or 'Jonathan stole Nigeria's money? wiegraf: That's the difference between the Church and the secular world. Nations, communities hardly ever apologize to one another even when the most heinous crimes are committed. An apology is not always an indication that what I did is not good or was not for a good purpose...or was not a just and deserved recompense. An apology could just be a mark of politeness and/or humility. If my mother scolds me in front of my friends for smoking at 15, she could apologize...but she hasn't done a bad thing. if you slap me and I slap you in return, I could apologize, but I haven't done you wrong. There are many Atheistic and non-Atheistic govts through the ages that have tried to extinguish the Church, killing clergy, demolishing and confiscating Church property e.g China, N Korea, USSR, Albania, Roman Empire, Vietnam, Great Britain etc...who has ever made such a profound and public apology to the Catholic Church? Many Catholics fought against many Protestants...who has ever apologized to Catholics? The Popes are just being the better people - humble and polite. wiegraf: Olodo that just swallows any indoctrination that haters like you post on wikipedia...here's is the full text which your masters hid from you: Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power offer the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power offer all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care. wiegraf: I accept that the Catholic Church is the biggest charity and force for good in the world. I accept all Catholics are sinners, some with very grevious sins which contravene the teachings of the Church. The reason you're seemingly outraged by pedophilia is probably because the Church kicks against it and many nations adapted their law to Church teachings. Islam is not against it. Many Atheists are even fighting that it should be legal for men to sleep with boys e.g nambla atheists. That's the difference, even when Catholics sin, they don't defend it, Atheist sin and try to legalize it. |
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johnw74: False! Being a Christian is about believing and doing good...including what you do to strangers. e.g building walls, keeping out immigrants etc. Matt25:34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, |
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Geist: He can't get little things like that. He's not that intelligent. That's why he has begun to avoid your argument by saying "no need to talk too much." This is someone who has been talking too much trash on this thread for days. Watch out for insults against God and the Church and your person when you press on with intelligent points. |
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JackBizzle: Show me where Catholic doctrine had slavery. I see love of all men in Catholic doctrine. JackBizzle: Are you talking about the Crusade to fight back Muslim barbarians that were killing and raping inhabitants and pilgrims of/to the Holy Land? That was a just war. We need another Crusade against the Islamic State barbarians again. JackBizzle: No proof. However, I know that Catholic Church is the single body that runs the most schools, hospitals and charities in the world. JackBizzle:Shame on YOU because it's true. That's why you can't show me hospices before the Catholic Church invented them...and invented the Modern university system. JackBizzle: You're wrong. It's truth that mainly makes people hate the Catholic Church. And many people are liking the Catholic Church even more. Show me any benefit of Atheism to humanity... ...apart from emptiness, bitterness and destruction. 1 Like |
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JackBizzle: Which negative did I deny? Show me where the Catholic Church ever taught a negative? You're just trying to dodge from the uselessness of Atheism to humanity by attacking the Church. The Church didn't make Atheism useless and destructive to humanity. |
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wiegraf: Let me educate you. When the official Church teaching and policy promotes and supports giving to charity, setting up charity homes etc...and members, arms of the Church and the whole Church itself do what the Church asks, with the full legal, spiritual and material backing of the whole universal Church...then we can rightly say: The Catholic Church is the biggest Charity in the world. But when the official teaching and laws of the Church prohibits see outside of marriage, yet members, top officials of the Church defy the Church and rape little boys, we cannot say the Catholic Church is raping little boys. We say Fr X or Msgr Y is raping little boys in contravention of the laws of the Church. When a Governor or minister is stealing money, you don't say Nigeria is stealing money. |
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johnw74: You have asked this stupidd question over and again to avoid the truth that Christianity is about our faith and action. Please show where I said the bold is false. Let see who is the devil. |
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CoolUsername: OK. So Atheism doesn't prevent indoctrination. Religion also allows people to break free from Atheistic indoctrination. Mention one Atheist who is/was not indoctrinated with something. Just one. |
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wiegraf: Can you prove that I can find atheist charities anywhere? |
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JackBizzle: ![]() So you cant: Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them. Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church. Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization. |
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JackBizzle: Prove that hospices were existing before the Catholic Church invented them. Prove that any single body runs more schools, hospitals and charities than the Catholic Church. Prove that any other organization has contributed 5% of what the Catholic Church has contributed to western civilization. |
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johnw74: You're the one saying scripture contradicts scripture because you don't believe James2:20. I never said so. I believe both verses. They're not contradictory. |
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JackBizzle: Exactly where he was when Jesus, Peter, Paul and others died. Probably welcoming the seminarians to his presence which is far better than this perilous world. 2 Likes |
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johnw74: johnw74: johnw74: James2:20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren? |
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Empredboy: No. The key is passed on to Peter's successors, just like Judas' bishopric was taken by Mathias. Pope Francis is the 265th successor of St. Peter. |
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