₦airaland Forum

superior1:
Why are you scared if @Speechless3 approached her heavenly Father without intermediary in prayers, He will answer and respond to her?, why are you afraid if she study the bible diligently, she would come to the knowledge of what her saviour wants from her?

I'm not scared. I'm sure she already does that, just like I do, and you do and the snake eating pastor does...and the pastor calling TB Joshua demonic does...and TB Joshua does. So talking to God directly and reading bible does not guarantee knowledge of truth.

Early Christians never had a Bible and even the bible shows that Jesus made the apostles intermediaries...

So why are you scared to tell her why your religion is opposite to that of Jesus and the apostles.

Why are you scared to give her the info I implored you to give her?

Hahaha!

Sunglass20:
There is no need for all these long sermon my dear. You listen to many talks, but you work with the one you feel its ok for you. I mean Life is all about choices.

I work with the one I feel is okay for God, not the one I feel is okay for me.

Christian life is about God's choices, not ours.

God has given us one Church...with one Church hierarchy and one faith, one doctrine. I will stick with it whether I feel good or not. Jesus didn't feel good about his passion and death. He sweated blood just thinking about it. But he did God's choice.

Sunglass20:
Am not sure you have defended the Catholic church as much as I have done but I have come to understand a lot of things....

I only told you the truth...I didn't defend anything.

Sunglass20:
May God help us all to serve him TRULY and to be happy with him forever in the Next as it is the reason why God made us according to the Catholic catechism.

Amen.

Sacluxpaint:
I was like you before @speechless. I did everything catholicable ( if there is a word like that) . But I felt trapped and confused, most of the scriptural interpretations of the catholic church didn't make sense. As in for instance, how can you be in bondage of confessing to a priest who might be much more sinful than yourself? Catholics use James 5:16 to justify confession, if thats the case they should confess to me.

Why did Jesus give the apostles power to forgive and retain sins in John20:23?

For fancy? Not to be used?

Sacluxpaint:
Catholics like holding onto 'tradition ' and Jesus clearly told the pharisees that they are putting traditions before God's commandments.

2Thess2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

Your 'Holy Spirit' is definitely different from that of St. Paul and Catholics.

Sacluxpaint:
Speechless3, Jesús loves you. Accept him as your personal lord and saviour before it's too late, and he would definitely give you the holy spirit. And if you are confused, ask(according to James 1:5).

I did the above in the Catholic Church long ago. Those Catholics who haven't deepened their relationship with Jesus are free and encouraged to do so everyday.

Sacluxpaint:
Ever since I left the catholic Church, my faith became stronger. I feel free, I am no longer under any confession bondage to a priest, no more virgin Mary ritual and hope for purgatory. Jesus is Lord.

That's how many teenagers feel free when they get old enough to do things without consulting their parents. They see the consultation as bandage too.

Until they get into deep trouble, then they run home to their parents, just like the prodigal son.

Catholic Church never taught you to aspire or hope for purgatory...or do you want to start lying like superior1?

Sacluxpaint:
Oga I replied her post as catholics having the largest denomination of followers. My point is that being so many doesn't mean right.

No vex. Na just simple question I ask. The same applies to Christianity. I agree.

superior1:
Some of what you post as valid points are laughable (I suspect even to you) but typical of you;you are looking for someone to engage you in a ping-pong cycle, sorry I wont oblige you today, not on this thread. @Speechless3 is my attraction here, maybe I will open a thread on "The Roman Catholic Crusade" for all to read and judge, if I do, I will definitely call you out.

You've made zero point as usual. You have nothing to back up your lies and error.

Since speechless3 is your attraction, tell her why you say we don't need the Church, when Jesus thinks we need the Church.

Tell her why you say we don't need intermediaries when Jesus gave us intermediaries.

Tell us why the Biblical Church and it's leaders and members could be physically located but yours is like an invisible secret society that has no leaders on earth, no hierarchy, no history, no doctrine, no basis, no origin, nothing!

Tell her why you trust the Catholic Church to compile scripture and declare it closed...then turn around and demonize the Church.

Tell her why you lie about the Catholic Church. Tell why you can't mention a single original Christian that you claim was killed by a nameless emperor who you claimed formed Catholicism but cannot provide the date it was formed and the date the corticosteroids, orthodox etc were formed because you know you lied in saying they existed before the Catholic Church.

Tell her why you criticize religion and rituals and recitals, when Jesus and the apostles did these things. Heaven is full of recitals and incense and rituals etc.

By the time you can provide her these answers, she should swiftly fly to your mode of worship.

Sacluxpaint:
Broad and wide is the road that leads to destruction and MANY go through it but narrow and near leads to eternal life and FEW find it, b joyful if you are among the few.

So since Christianity is the world's biggest religion...

Does it lead to destruction?

Hahaha!

superior1:
@Speechless3, Have you heard about "The Crusade"....it is something you can read up when you have the time, you will see how a politicized Christianity fought bloody wars to gain political power.....Jesus didnt ask us to seek political power!!, He said my kingdom is not of this world !!!.
Again, it is no brainer....the word Roman is from Rome, Rome was once the seat of government....why then is the church representing the general christian body of Christ and His Apostles named Rome Church?, it is like saying Abuja Christians....think about it, why?, why?,why?.....simple, before it was made a state church and politicized, there were many others....the Cop, orthodox, eastern churches etc, you see why I dont talk about church organization to you and why you mustnt follow one whose doctrine was mainly collated by her adherents.......Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

Pastor Yemi Osinbajo (Vice President) and Pastor Chris Okotie (former Presidential candidate) who both claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit need to hear this your sermon from your own Holy Spirit.

Hahaha!

superior1:
Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

Here are two of your kind who claim to be following the Holy Spirit.

Yet one accuses the other of following demons.

Hahaha!

https://www.nairaland.com/2845672/conrad-mbewe-accuses-tb-joshua

You want speechless3 to join the confusion.

superior1:
@Speechless3, Have you heard about "The Crusade"....it is something you can read up when you have the time, you will see how a politicized Christianity fought bloody wars to gain political power.....Jesus didnt ask us to seek political power!!, He said my kingdom is not of this world !!!.
Again, it is no brainer....the word Roman is from Rome, Rome was once the seat of government....why then is the church representing the general christian body of Christ and His Apostles named Rome Church?, it is like saying Abuja Christians....think about it, why?, why?,why?.....simple, before it was made a state church and politicized, there were many others....the Cop, orthodox, eastern churches etc, you see why I dont talk about church organization to you and why you mustnt follow one whose doctrine was mainly collated by her adherents.......Follow the Holy Spirit, Follow the Bible, you wont miss it

1. The Crusades were a just war to defend Christians and other non-muslims who were being murdered by ISIS-like Muslim militants in and around the Holy Land. You should be thankful for the Crusades. Without it, many more Christians would have been forcefully converted and/or killed.

2. "Roman" is used to indicate that the Church is in communion with the Bishop of Rome...who is the successor of St. Peter.

3. None of those Churches existed before the Catholic Church. Your story is false that's why you cannot give dates and details.

4. Which Bible should she follow? The one compiled in the Synod of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus?

superior1:
I am no Roman Catholic nor Protestant, I am a member of the body of Christ.

Yet you read Martin Luther's Protestant Bible as your sole authority on matters of faith.

Hahaha!

Did Christ mention "bible?"

They all claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Millions of them. Yet they preach millions of contradictory doctrines.

They have millions of protestant denominations.

Is the Holy Spirit inspiring this confusion and division...

...or are these people lying against/misunderstanding the Holy Spirit?

I'm sure the answer is plain to see.

As for me, I know the Holy Spirit that inspired the Church to compile the Bible continues to inspire it's doctrine and wil never leave the Church - One Holy Catholic and Apostolic!

Jesus promised!

superior1:
I am no Roman Catholic nor Protestant, I am a member of the body of Christ.
@Speechless3, politics was introduced into Christianity some years back. A particular roman emperor wanted a religious state, he fought wars and killed many who didn't accept this, he formed a roman Christianity, it is called Roman Catholism (Rome is still existing today and so his the church he formed). Under him, forgiveness was sold to people for fees, alot of the original Christians were killed, people don't want to be Christians again because they love God, it became a religious activity demanded by the state.

Jesus has called us into a relationship, it has nothing to do with politics. That is what you should seek after and only in that relationship can you receive true meaning of life

Who was the emperor? Which wars did he fight? Who were these people he killed? When did he from this religion and was it this religion that compiled the NT after he formed it? Mention one original Christian that was killed?

Lies! Lies! Lies!

Sunglass20:
So other Christians who are not Catholics, who don't pretend to be celibates and destroy the lives of innocent girls by defiling them won't make heaven I guess?

I haven't said anything about heaven. To know what the Church teaches about salvation outside the Catholic Church, read CCC 846-848. Stop making harsh comments out of ignorance.

I know that you're not insinuating that all Catholic pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls... and that Protestants and other non-Catholics don't pretend to be celibate, then defile young girls. That would be...an unreasonable statement at best.

Sunglass20:
The Catholic ministers...how many of them ever stand by you when you are in need and in pain?

Many. They even help non-Catholics in need. I'm a member of Society of St. Vincent de Paul and what we do all year round is help the poor regardless of religion.

Every Catholic is a minister of some sort. Ask yourself how many people you stand by in their time of pain. It's useless to point fingers. The Church is both laity and clergy.

Sunglass20:
Like i said, i am a catholic and have seen how deep the devil Has destroyed the Church through Her Ministers. I am not perfect, i do my best to advice and help the innocent girls in their traps the best way i can. I already lost my belief in God seeing the way those who we see as Christ's representative and our guide to Christ, disrespect Christ and i almost came to a conclusion that God doesn't exist until I came in Contact with few Men of God who Revere God like He should Truly be revered in Spirit and in Truth. My life changed my Dear. Running from one Church to another is not the Solution because none is Perfect though some are better. I Love the Catholic church though, I will be there to do my best to affect the few lives I can positively. Christianity is a personal relationship with God.. It is Love for God that Flows to man.

Those 'men of God...' are they without sins? do you know their sins?

Christ never promised that his Church ministers will be sinless. He never promised that every member of his Church will be better in character than every person outside his Church.

He said:

Matt16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

John20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Luke 10:16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

Matt28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Whether the Church leaders sin or not.

Let me add this bonus: Christianity includes your relationship with the Church.

Matt18:17 If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

superior1:
You can know alot about Christ and have no relationship with Him, @Speechless3, what you need is relationship with Him, He can be related to. I know you have been taught all your life that you need a saint or priest to help you settle things with God, that is a blatant lie!, Christ doesnt need any intermediary, He says if any man come to me, I will by no means cast away. God knows about your struggles and your internal yearnings, when you surrender your life to Him, He will accept you and with His power transform you into a better person.

Why did Jesus tell the apostles to baptize people, and break bread for people, and to teach people, and give them authority to forgive sins, and give them the keys to the kingdom of God?

Is that not Jesus making them intermediaries?

Hahaha!

This your religion is contrary to that of Jesus and the apostles o.

superior1:
The real church includes me and all genuine believers in Christ. We are the Catholics (I hope you know it has nothing to do with Roman Catholism). The Church of Christ is founded sorry not on Peter but on Jesus Christ himself. @Speechless3, religious activities will not save you neither doctrine of men, it is only the blood of Jesus that is powerful enough to cleanse, the journey is not a day job but if you embrace Him and study His word diligently, He will reveal Himself in a way you will never miss Him

Hahaha! See Protestant claiming to be Catholic and claiming that Catholics are not Catholics. Delusion at its peak.

Matt16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

The early Christians needed the one Church Jesus foubded.. We are no different.

superior1:
@speechless3, let no man tell you God cant be accessed by you directly or you need an intervention of a group of people who are equally battling with their frail humanity. Search the scriptures, if God is true, He will reveal Himself to does who diligently seek Him.

By searching the scripture, you've already accessed God through the men (Church leaders with frail humanity) who wrote and compiled it.

There's a reason God chose to come into the world through Mary, and found a Church led by the apostles. Jesus told the apostles: "he who hears you hears me." "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven." "Whatever you bind is bound."

Even the Bible says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth 1Tim3:15.

Even Paul that had a personal encounter with Jesus had to go to the Church leaders.

Are you wiser than God and the apostles?

superior1:
You don't get it. Religion is what she has been practicing....rituals, recitations blah blah, that is not Christianity (I know that is what Catholism embodies), you can be very religious and know nothing about Christ

True. And you can be very religious and know a lot about Christ.

And you can be non-religious and know nothing about Christ.

Jesus was religious: he participated in the ritual of baptism, pilgrimage, he recited prayers and the ritual of communion etc.

The Apostles too were religious: they participated in the rituals of baptism, communion, anointing the sick, ordination etc.

There is recitation of prayers and burning of incense in heaven. In fact Revelations is full of rituals.

So religion is good...when you internalize it's teachings and practices.

What is bad is empty outward religious practices without internalizing it. E.g Pharisees.

Mother Teresa was a very religious Catholic nun.

She internalized the religion and it made her a good person. Serving God and man.

What about you? How do you compare to her?

superior1:
Needed what/which Church?

The only Church that Jesus founded on St. Peter. Led by the apostles and their successors.

Or are you saying the early Christians didn't need the Church?

superior1:
@Speechless3, All I can recommend is that you leave religion and have an encounter with Jesus. How?, call upon Him and tell Him you want to really meet Him in a special way for a personal relationship, explain your confusion to Him, He hears!. Start reading about His time on earth in the account of the News testament. I can assure you, if you are sincere, He will drop to your level to meet and direct your path. As many that call upon the name of the Lord shall be save.

What you're saying is that she should leave religion and seek Jesus (that was taught to her by religion) by reading the NT (that was put together by religion).

That's hilarious...at best.

superior1:
As many that are led my the Spirit of God are the Sons (and Daughters of God)...............no intermediary.....she needs the guidance of the Holy Spirit and nothing in between

But the early Christians needed the Church.

Sunglass20:
God is in your heart, serve him the way your heart leads you. Propher TB Joshua says and I quote...'when Christ comes again, the question will not be who worshipped God in Catholic, Anglican or Synagogue, the question would be- who worshipped God in SPIRIT and TRUTH'. I am a Catholic too, the teachings I agree with, I pick and put into practice; Those I dont agree with, I leave. I worship sometimes with other churches. I also learn. I enjoy their praise and worship which lifts your spirit to another level with God, and that we hardly get in the Catholic church. Worship God the best way you can, MAKE GOD'S WORD THE STANDARD FOR YOUR LIFE.

Just to remind you...that Jesus only founded ONE Church on St. Peter (Matt 16:18).

Speechless3:
I think compile in this context is like bringing these books together but who authored them is a different thing.

If God can use evil men to kill Jesus, why cant he use anybody to get His words together.

Am not saying the catholic church is evil, but this is not a strong point. Thanks anyway.

I will show you why it is a strong point.

How do you know the Catholic Church got the compilation right?

How do you know that the books chosen (e.g Luke) were actually inspired by the Holy Spirit...

...and the books thrown out (e.g Gospel of Barnabas) were not inspired by the Holy Spirit?

How do you know that the Holy Spirit has stopped inspiring the writing of Scripture?

The Catholic Church made these proclamation by the divine infallible authority granted it by Jesus. If it is truly infallible, then it cannot teach error...but if it isn't infallible, then the Bible could contain error/erroneous books...or maybe scripture is still been written.

Speechless3:
No please. I want to know if i can quit them.

You already know you can quit them. You would quit them if in a Sharia country...but you will not quit them for Jesus. Stop playing the victim here. Jesus Christ is your victim here.

It won't help you to be here seeking those who will sugarcoat the truth for you.

You have to be your own worst critic.

Speechless3:
The truth is i wont do them not because i respect the law, the person, the religion involved but because i fear the consequences. If the bible is correct, i dont think God want us obeying Him out of fear but out of love.

I am being sincere.

Good. There's one thing we can both agree on, based on your post: you have the ability to avoid your sins.

This is contrary to the impression you have been creating here: that you don't have the ability.

If you can choose to avoid them when there are grave immediate and irrevocable consequences (e.g stoning to death); but choose not to avoid them (when you know God will always forgive you at confession), the problem is not with God, the Church or the Bible. The problem is YOU.

But he sheds no tears for the millions of babies butchered in the womb with his support.

Hypocrite!

It's amazing when people claim the Bible is true but the Catholic Church that compiled it is false.

Can a good fruit come from a bad tree?

My uneducated 'History teacher' abandoned class unannounced.

Hahaha!

demmy:
Yes I am your history teacher and I'll gladly teach you. There were no such thing as jewish people. Judaism is a religion like christianity and islam. There was Palestine and the Palestinian people and the Europeans faking around now as the jewish people were definitely not part of Palestine. Netanyahu aka Benjamin Mileikowsky and his fellow history jackers are immigrants from Europe and are mostly Khazars. I am surprised you're ignorant of this . Do you know that the state of israel was forcibly created in 1947 by these European immigrants after they'd massacred millions of Palestinians for decades previously? Do you know anything about the crusade? Do you know that South African whites came from Europe too and are not the original Africans? And do you know that American whites were also from Europe and are not the original native Americans either?

The below link should set you on your way to knowledge if you're interested
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm

Hahaha! History teacher, your own link debunks you. It proves below that there were Jews who were sacked by the Romans and the Arabs supported the Romans. Where did you get your teaching certificate from?

[b]Tacitus: History Book 5

1. EARLY in this year Titus Caesar, who had been selected by his father to complete the subjugation of Judaea, and who had gained distinction as a soldier while both were still subjects, began to rise in power and reputation, as armies and provinces emulated each other in their attachment to him. The young man himself, anxious to be thought superior to his station, was ever displaying his gracefulness and his energy in war. By his courtesy and affability he called forth a willing obedience, and he often mixed with the common soldiers, while working or marching, without impairing his dignity as general. He found in Judaea three legions, the 5th, the 10th, and the 15th, all old troops of Vespasian's. To these he added the 12th from Syria, and some men belonging to the 18th and 3rd, whom he had withdrawn from Alexandria. This force was accompanied by twenty cohorts of allied troops and eight squadrons of cavalry, by the two kings Agrippa and Sohemus, by the auxiliary forces of king Antiochus, by a strong contingent of Arabs, who hated the Jews with the usual hatred of neighbours, and, lastly, by many persons brought from the capital and from Italy by private hopes of securing the yet unengaged affections of the Prince. With this force Titus entered the enemy's territory, preserving strict order on his march, reconnoitring every spot, and always ready to give battle. At last he encamped near Jerusalem.[/b]

Also, there was never a country called "Palestine." if you insist there was, tell us: What was it's currency? Where was it's capital? Provide proof.

Where did you get your teachers certification from...olodo.

Amberon:
more often than not, foolish people think they're wise. Were those images worshipped??

You're dodging my simple questions.

What about the brazen serpent and Ark of the Covenant Cherubs?

Are they graven images or not?

Hahaha!

Speechless3:
No you dont.

Will is like some choice i have to make. It is decisional in nature. While Can is ability, power to do, influence or control a thing. I don't have the latter.

You don't have the ability to control your inclination to sin?

Are you saying that if you knew your next act of cheating would lead to instant death, you wouldn't avoid cheating?

Would you 'go unclad' in a sharia country where you know you'll be stoned to death...or would you control the urge to 'go unclad?'

Be sincere with yourself.

@Speechless, I want to get you right.

Are you looking for a congregation that can help you quit your sins?

demmy:
Dumbo, Netanyahu's parents were from Poland and he was really born in America. The fake jewish people occupying Israel currently were all from Poland and Russia and other Eastern European countries. Learn history.

So where are the real Jewish people, history teacher?

They've evaporated?

Hahaha!