₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Ok, the truth is believers will experience baptism one way or another in their christian walk but it is not necessary for salvation.It is just a seal of redemption.

If believers are saved (destined) for heaven, of what use is the "seal?"

shdemidemi: If you are confident about what you believe, answer my question.

Which belief and which question?

shdemidemi: Can you ever answer a question to defend what you believe asides pasting junks online?

Yes. And I have answered many questions defending my belief on nairaland.

You have never ever seen one?

No wonder you dont see anything.

shdemidemi: You are a liar!

Catch who?

All you were doing on the other thread was ask questions, which was answered, I am sure you ran out of questions.

If I ask you a question, I am too sure you will run away or refuse to answer.

Calm your breath. I wasnt even talking about another thread. I was talking about jumping from one topic to another on the same thread.

Who did this to you?

shdemidemi: You have refused to respond to the fact that Paul and Peter were separated by one spirit for a purpose.


What does it mean to lie against the Holy Spirit?

Nevermind.

It means nothing to you I'm sure.

Catch them here, they'll run there.

Refute their allegation, they'll derail the thread.

Now its about Mary.

shdemidemi: You are a lazy Christian, read what I say properly

You depend on elders to interpret the scriptures, I don't think you need anyone to interpret what I have said.

Just admit that it is not the one Holy Spirit that is leading all of you to contradict yourselves.

Do you know what it means to lie against the Holy Spirit?

shdemidemi: Lack of study mate..

Most Christians lack the zeal to study, remember we all have the tendency to go into apostasy if we don't stick to the true gospel of God.

It is not good advice, it is the gospel of God.

You should be addressing this to yourself and your felllow "HolySpiritLed" brothers that are contradicting themselves.

shdemidemi: No, Paul never got baptised by any man mate.

Baptism of water is still under Judaism, baptism of Jesus is by the spirit.

Can one human being baptise another human being with the baptism of Jesus?

superior1: Trying to be sarcastic or thirsty for the truth??
It is well with you bro.
Peace

I'm only showing that your claims are lies.

superior1: You are sure entitled to your opinion sir

That is the only opinion. The alternative would be blasphemy.

shdemidemi: If you really want to know how the Holy Spirit works, read your romans 8.

Christianity is the only faith, you cannot afford to judge a believer. The Holy Spirit might be teaching me a lesson from your mistakes.

The Holy Spirit doesnt lie to people...if that is what you are trying to prove.

superior1: We all agreed salvation comes through repentance and acceptance of Christ (what is more important than that?).

Paul and Barnabas have difference of opinion on John Mark and parted ways, it doesn't remove their office as Apostles, they both have the Holy Spirit

"opinion on John Mark"...not a doctrine.

They never taught contradictory doctrines.

shdemidemi: I believe you just want to be blind to the truth. Go and check these things yourself bro.

No man, no church, no elder has a private interpretation of the scripture.

Then what do you call all these contradictions if they are not private interpretations?

Who is being blind to the truth here?

superior1: What is the use of an office I'd card when you have been employed in the company?

Bro, unless you have something you don't want to change in your heart(and I respect your desire), this issue should be laid to a rest and you should bring up another topic that worth discussing (in helping our faith)

If I dont have an office ID card I might not even be allowed in my work premises.

But if I am saved, I will enter heaven come what may. Why do I then need an ID(baptism)

Except you are saying baptism gives me access to heaven...

...But oops! That will make nonesense of your position.

shdemidemi: Yes he did with some but he was still getting things wrong cos he wanted Gentiles to do similar rituals like water baptism, circumcision , Jewish tradition to mention a few. Paul warned against things like that, he called them 'bondage'. Paul was the one given the fresh revelation, remember. He says we are free in Christ, the dispensation of such things were gone. He actually confronted Peter and called him a hypocrite cos Peter would be with Gentiles but he will run away from the m when he sees his Jewish brothers.

At a point, there was a meeting where they agreed Peter should take his teachings to the Jews while Paul stays with Gentiles. Even after the agreement they still sneaked those sort of doctrines in to the church.

So Peter never got it right? Paul that got it right, why did he allow himself to be baptised?

superior1: He baptised them after they have accepted Christ and were saved.
Amen!

But your fellow "HolySpiritLed" brother said baptism is not fot Gentiles.

That was what the "Holy Spirit" taught him.

Surely, you must agree with him. You are led by the same "Holy Spirit," right?

superior1: He baptised them after they have accepted Christ and were saved.
Amen!

But your fellow "HolySpiritLed" brother said baptism is not fot Gentiles.

That was what the "Holy Spirit" taught him.

alexleo: Yeah you are right. If I apply the scriptures wrongly then of course I wasn't led by the Spirit of God. Even If i claim it was the spirit of God that led me it doesn't change anything. The flesh is always battling with the spirit so sometimes one may find himself applying the scriptures wrongly just to suit his own interest. But when you realise you ve erred then you come back to the truth.

Gbam.

So there is a possibility you have been applying sctipture wrongly throughout this thread, right?

Yes or no?

*Long story and dribbling will start now*

shdemidemi: See the world will come with many issues, how do we deal with these issues as believers?

By the true word of God, we have to get to a level in our walk with God that we would actually know the mind of God in all issues concerning us. The scripture says

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

There are no laws or rules but a relationship with God transforms us to an image of God. So, issues that you raised does not need a law or a rule but wisdom from the power of God through the gospel.



A false teacher is anyone that is not using Christ as the central point of their message. Any teacher that is not teaching the good news of God unto salvation, anyone that preaches godliness as a means of acquiring riches, from such people the bible says flee.

Mention ONE gifted teacher you have identified that we can reference.

shdemidemi: Any of us could be wrong if we try to make the scripture say what we want it to say, instead of leaving it as it has been written. The same way our body need good food to grow, our spirit need the understanding of the word of God to grow.

The scripture says study to show thyself approved, if you don't study well enough, the spirit has no truth to work with hence it remains redundant.

But you all claim to be led by yhe Spirit. Can the Spirit lead 5people to be contradicting themselves.

You people are lying jor...because the Holy Spirit I know cannot lie.

superior1: Italian, tapa and yoruba may be different languages but can yet pass the same message, if you have been with an unbiased mind, you will see a common point we are trying to make.

Go from river osun to indian ocean to get baptised, it doesn't get you save. By the way, I hope you know we have different types of baptism?, so call it water baptism, because baptism is quite general

You are all speaking English and saying different things.

Some of you believe John 3:5 was not talking about water baptism; shdemidemi thinks it was, but that was only for Jews.

Some believe baptism is not necessary, Alexleo thinks it is.

I can go on and on.

Between you people and the Holy Spirit, one party is lying and it isnt the Holy Spirit.

superior1: Italo, think of water baptism like your office I'd card. To get the card, you have to be in the company's employment first and then be issued a card. Salvation comes through repentance and believing in Christ, water baptism identifies you as a part of the body of Christ. Now, if you are not an employee or you have left the company's employment, that card is irrelevant and doesn't give you official access. Water baptism is sure relevant to the body of Christ but what saves you is not water baptism.

@all, can we discuss something more relevant to our Christian work and stop this front and back arguments.

Whats the use of an ID card (baptism) if I'm already saved?

shdemidemi: Peter and Philip got their teachings from Jesus. Most of the things Jesus said was over them, even the resurrection from the dead, none of the m was there cos they thought it was all over. They went back to fishing, not until Christ came back to show them he was still alive. Peter did not understand what had happened on the cross concerning the Gentiles until he went in a trance. The programme changed but the disciples did not get it. God had to pick Paul to propagate this new programme.

Do you get?

And after the trance, Peter understood...and baptised many many Gentiles.

Amen?

shdemidemi: Well, Peter was speaking to the nation of Israel at this point in time. What would they need to be part of the kingdom? Repentance and baptism.
Acts 2:22

Ye men of Israel, (there’s no Gentile language here) hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:"

"Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen.(which took place in Jerusalem) traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch. (in other words, that whole eastern end of the Mediterranean) preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only."




When Paul came on the scene, a prison guard asked him “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Peter baptised Gentiles in Acts 10. You surely have never come across it.

@shdemidemi

Why are you avoiding my questions?

How do we identify this "gifted teachers?"

Now that Paul is dead who will teach us about issues like contraception, ectopic pregnancies, embryonic stem cell research...that Paul never mentioned?

shdemidemi: Did you read my previous post?

John the Baptist came with a gospel to the nation of Israel - a gospel of baptism and repentance

Jesus came with a gospel primarily for the nation of Israel - a gospel of Jesus is the son of God

Risen Christ came with a gospel of the death, burial and resurrection unto salvation.( of course through Paul)

These were different dispensations of the gospel of Christ.

In which out of these your 3 dispensations did Peter and Philip baptise those people?

Alexleo is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Debosky is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Superior1 is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Bidam is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Shdemidemi is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Yet you are all saying different, sometimes contradictory things about what baptism is and its relation to salvation.

Could it be that we have many "Holy Spirits"

...or you people are telling lies?

alexleo: But baptism is neccessary for those who are saved. Example is the case of the eunuch. Who wanted to be baptized after listening to the word of God by philip, he was now asked by philip- do you believe? He accepted Jesus by his confession. Next he was baptized.

If you are already saved (destined for heaven), why then do you need baptism?

shdemidemi: My friend, the fact remains that he baptised none with water in the old dispensation. Our baptism is affirmed as soon as we believe the gospel of Christ in this dispensation.

What happened in John 3:22, then?

So why did Peter baptise people who had already believed?

And Philip baptised the eunuch after he had believed. Why?

Bidam: Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.‘"
You conveniently left out the repentant aspect in that scripture.And the baptism peter mentioned here was never water baptism because the preceding verse says "And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.‘" based on my understanding of what peter is saying here is that baptism is the manifestation of the repentance, that gift from God, that is the sign of the circumcised heart. That is why it says, "repent and be baptized."

You are saying baptism entails NO PHYSICAL ACT and has nothing to do with water but is only a manifestation of repentance. Hmm...this, I have never heard before.

Let us look further into the same book of Acts.

Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

The eunuch recognized the necessity of water for baptism. If not, Philip need not have gone into the water with him.

Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

And, just to tell you, I wasnt conveniently omitting anything. I was actually talking about 1Peter 3:21 which says "Baptism which now saves you"

You are obviously wrong, arent you?

Bidam: John 3:5, "Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'"I also do not agree Jesus meant water baptism here,what i think Jesus meant here was a regeneration of the spirit man just like the natural birth process of water coming out of the womb of a woman during child birth.Jesus said in verse three that Nicodemus needed to be born "again." This meant that he had been born once through his mother's womb. Nicodemus responds with a statement about how he cannot enter again into his mother's womb to be born. Then Jesus says that he must be born of water and the Spirit. Then in verse 6 He says that "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." The context seems to be discussing the contrast between the natural and the spiritual birth. Water, therefore, could easily be interpreted there to mean the natural birth process.

...immediately after the teaching, Jesus went and had his apostles baptize people...WITH WATER.

Read from John 3:22 - 4:1.

Dear brother, you are wrong about baptism, arent you?

Bidam: The answer is a resounding No. Baptism is never a requirement for salvation.

Thank you.

Why does Peter say "Baptism now SAVES" us?

What is the meaning of "water" which we must be "born of" to be saved (Jn 3:5)?