₦airaland Forum

alexleo: You said I should give you a scripture of baptism in relation to salvation and I gave it to you in romans 6:1-11. If you are not okay with what is written there then that's your own. Am not here to please you oga.
See how you are jumping the lies you told against me which I pointed. Mr christian, u dey try.

italo: Mr Scripture reader, is baptism necessary for salvation?

alexleo: Oh. Ok. So until I answer it then you take it?? Sorry am not here for showmanship. If you ask a question and someone gives an answer, I don't need to repeat it once I agree with the person's answer. If that's not okay for you then no problem. I can't do it your way.

alexleo: You are just funny. If jesus tells me that hell is a place of torment and someone comes to tell me that what Jesus was refering to as hell is grave. Why won't I insist that the description that Jesus gave in the scripture doesn't portray that of grave or even a place of refuse as someone described hell in one of the thread? Carry your Mary message to another thread we don't need it here. I know that your problem is that am against some of your practices in catholic and that's all. Feel free but I won't change my stand. The question you asked in the other thread someone gave you an answer and I don't need to repeat it. If you are not okay with the answer they gave you then that's for you. My reason of being in nairalland is not to give you answers that ll please you. You told the same lies against me in that thread that I said people should read the bible and interpret it for themselves, I asked you to quote where I said it. Have you done that since that day till now? See the kind of christian you are.

shdemidemi: What is your point?

The fact still remains that Christ was speaking to the Jews at the time.

Remember, there was nothing like Christianity at that time, Christ had to die (as the testator).

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Did they understand what Christ was saying at the time? No

Could Christ tell them more clearly? No, that is the job of the Holy Spirit through apostle Paul

Did Christ baptise anyone with H20? No

Bidam: This your logic get as e bi my brother, There are thousands of virgins who God could have chosen in Israel,mary was just a privileged vessel unto honour fit for the master's use.Don't hype it.

italo: How do we identify this "gifted teachers?"

Now that Paul is dead who will teach us about issues like contraception, ectopic pregnancies, embryonic stem cell research...that Paul never mentioned?

shdemidemi: That answer was answered on that thread, the issue is if you accept the answers you got.

We made it clear that Jesus was made like man although he wasn't man.
There was a man part and a God part to him even while on earth.

Don't bring Mary's issue here pls. It has been well addressed on the other thread.

shdemidemi: Every believer is led by the spirit...

A believer cannot be in the spirit and still be in the flesh.

We can identify good teachers if what they say are in line with the scriptures.

alexleo: The best any child of God can do now is to read the bible and stick to it.

superior1: @Alexleo, not everyone is frosbel and co. Answer Italo's questions within the best of your knowledge with patience and brotherly love.

shdemidemi: Apostle Paul had the office of the Holy Spirit, he was the apostle appointed to the gentile to teach all these things. That is not to say we would not need gifted teachers of the word who understand more.

shdemidemi: 16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

11 Likewise you also, reckon (consider) yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Once you believe in the gospel, you are automatically baptised into the body of Christ, Now, does the Holy Spirit baptize with water? No! So, this is not talking about water baptism.
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debosky: Because teachers are sent to equip the body of Christ. There is a role for them to play, but as i previously said, what an individual accepts is wholly his/her responsibility. No human being is self sufficient - there is a need for iron to sharpen iron, and to benefit from the ministry if teaching from those The Lord has given this gift to.

debosky: But you are aren't you? Jesus explained what he meant - I ask you directly now: are you saying Jesus' explanation of what he meant isn't correct? Or did I write that explanation in verse 10-13 and 18?

debosky: So what? Is my faith dependent on what hundreds of millions find weird? Is that the standard for sound doctrine - the level of weirdness assigned by some hundreds of people.

debosky: Hundreds of millions of Muslims find it weird that I believe Jesus is the Son of God- should I now change what I believe because of them as well?n

debosky: This is what Peter says: and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

Water is a symbol - what saves is a pledge of clear conscience through God- believing in Jesus. You can throw yourself in water a billion times, it doesn't save, just as it wasn't the flood that saved Noah and his Family. It was their faith in God.

debosky: I am free to state my opinion, but as I said above, each man/woman is responsible for his/her salvation. If you don't like my opinion, discard it. If you find value in it, that is if the Spirit of God in you agrees with it, then embrace it.

debosky: The role of the teachers is to teach, to be pedantic.
How do we identify the ones we should learn from? The ones who teach sound doctrine according to the bible. How does one identify sound doctrine you say? Through personal study and the teaching of the Spirit.

debosky: I have not interpreted anything - Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus said, and Jesus explained. Where is the interpretation? Or are you saying Jesus forgot to mention baptism when explaining what he meant?

Jesus baptising people is one thing, saying that is required to be saved is another. Jesus also sat with the people in that verse - so are we not saved until we spend time with Jesus in the flesh?

Anyway, the point I was making is this: if some choose to place additional emphasis on baptism but still believe, I don’t see how it becomes a heaven and hell issue.

Furthermore, if you think someone is going to hell because he didn’t get baptised that doesn’t mean he/she is going to hell. There are numerous of these ‘lesser’ issues that individuals/groups choose to elevate - that is their prerogative.

The only heaven and hell issue is clear - you must believe in Jesus.



God decides - He knows those that faithfully follow Him.

alexleo: Haaaaaaaa na so you wan lie bros? Pls start from the OP and read through our discussions and tell me where the things you accused me of happened. All my points are clearly stated here so point them out as claimed. No need of me repeating it.

alexleo: You simply have a biased mind in your approach to me. In what way was I not bold? You asked questions and I quoted what the scriptures says about it yet you were still asking me to either say yes or no. What's the sense in that? Is my yes or no better than what you are reading in the scriptures? Na wa for you.
Meanwhile you have not posted any single scripture to support your own claims. I told you to provide a scripture and I will accept it but you are busy looking for a yes or no.
And did you read my OP well? Did you actually see what I said? Feel free to say whatever you want. I ve seen you are just here to attack your "enemy" alexleo and not for us to rub minds as I had thought. So there can never be a friendly discussion between us without actually being biased? Go ahead but I won't be part of that. Thanks my brother.

alexleo: Its all about the scriptures. Did the scripture command us of venue? If yes pls post it here and I will accept it. If you have no such command in the scriptures to post then leave it as the scripture left it. These things are very simple but you seem to be looking for a way to justify your bishops and their interpretations. Feel free. Nobody is forcing you. What I said in my OP is that MOST of the things that Jesus said are self explanatory but people will still want to give it their interpretations. I now went ahead to advice that we should be careful when we are seeking explanations to those SELF EXPLANTORY teachings/statements. I also gave example with the scripture I quoted. I wonder what's your problem with that. Pls read my OP again more carefully and LOVINGLY this time.
[b]Yes the bible said the holy spirit will lead us. [/b]The Holy Spirit won't lead you to contradict a scriptural command. No one is holding you back but we shall all give account of our teachings and interpretations.
If the scripture does not give a command and you command, then it remains your own business and style of doing whatever but don't go looking for a cut-and-join thing to impress it on your congregation as a scriptural command when the scripture didn't actually command. Carry time o.lolz.... Cheers.

alexleo: Its all about the scriptures. Did the scripture command us of venue? If yes pls post it here and I will accept it. If you have no such command in the scriptures to post then leave it as the scripture left it. These things are very simple but you seem to be looking for a way to justify your bishops and their interpretations. Feel free. Nobody is forcing you. What I said in my OP is that MOST of the things that Jesus said are self explanatory but people will still want to give it their interpretations. I now went ahead to advice that we should be careful when we are seeking explanations to those SELF EXPLANTORY teachings/statements. I also gave example with the scripture I quoted. I wonder what's your problem with that. Pls read my OP again more carefully and LOVINGLY this time.
Yes the bible said the holy spirit will lead us. The Holy Spirit won't lead you to contradict a scriptural command. No one is holding you back but we shall all give account of our teachings and interpretations.
If the scripture does not give a command and you command, then it remains your own business and style of doing whatever but don't go looking for a cut-and-join thing to impress it on your congregation as a scriptural command when the scripture didn't actually command. Carry time o.lolz.... Cheers.

Sirgen05: [center]

Thanks for the answers to my questions!

Those who understood Eschatology very well will agree with me that this reward will take place during the 7yrs of AntiChrist reign, i.e after the rapture! And only the saints are qualified for this reward we are talking about.
During that reward, the works done are judged based on the motives behind the works, or whether there are done in righteousness if not no award - which means burnt up hence likened to hay, straw or stubble, easily burnt. But the person will be saved(delivered) from eternal death! Works from right motives & righteous heart are likened to Gold or Silver which cannot be burnt!
The use of fire here does not mean fire of hell or purgatory as u claimed, but a form of comparison hence the use of the word 'as' in the passage!

So, my dear the reward is not in hell nor in purgatory, but at the Bema seat of Christ. And note the use of 'fire', 'hay', 'stubble', 'wood', 'silver', and 'gold' in this chapter are just for comparison and not real!

The believe in purgatory lessen the stings of sin and the terror of hell. Plsssss dear, sins not taken care of here on earth will end the sinner in hell. No amount of penance will suffice!
Thanks and God bless you!

Sirgen05: [center]

Thanks for the answers to my questions!

Those who understood Eschatology very well will agree with me that this reward will take place during the 7yrs of AntiChrist reign, i.e after the rapture! And only the saints are qualified for this reward we are talking about.
During that reward, the works done are judged based on the motives behind the works, or whether there are done in righteousness if not no award - which means burnt up hence likened to hay, straw or stubble, easily burnt. But the person will be saved(delivered) from eternal death! Works from right motives & righteous heart are likened to Gold or Silver which cannot be burnt!
The use of fire here does not mean fire of hell or purgatory as u claimed, but a form of comparison hence the use of the word 'as' in the passage!

So, my dear the reward is not in hell nor in purgatory, but at the Bema seat of Christ. And note the use of 'fire', 'hay', 'stubble', 'wood', 'silver', and 'gold' in this chapter are just for comparison and not real!

The believe in purgatory lessen the stings of sin and the terror of hell. Plsssss dear, sins not taken care of here on earth will end the sinner in hell. No amount of penance will suffice!
Thanks and God bless you!

italo: So from the above and your previous post, it means that if I render a service to God e.g clean up the Church, while still engaging in immorality e.g homosexuality, I will receive no reward but go to heaven?

*note that St Paul makes no mention of confession of sins*

I disagree.


I have already done so.


So according to your theology, what happens to fornicators who turn many to righteousness?

Will they receive the reward Daniel speaks of or will suffer the loss Paul speaks of?


What is my belief and how does this statement contradict it?


My question to you was:
What other loss can one suffer after judgement, yet be saved...other than purgatory?

Please answer that before you start to deviate?

debosky: The place of individual study is primary, since the individual holds the relationship with Jesus, not through a proxy. The call to study to show oneself approved is not restricted - it applies to all believers. The promise of the Comforter - the one who will teach us about Jesus is also not restricted.

However, in addition to that, there is a place for pastors, teachers and guidance from those more advanced in the faith. The bible itself does not support reading and learning in isolation.

debosky: Firstly it’s not my explanation - it was the explanation given by Jesus himself in response to Nicodemus. Since Jesus explained what he meant earlier in the same passage, there is only one conclusion - by believing in Jesus, you are born of water and the Spirit.

4everGod: If you cannot see the errors then not even I can show them to you for you are blinded to them already.

debosky: This will only become the difference between heaven and hell for those who do have not studied - Jesus himself said, in the same passage, to explain what he meant:

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

That is what is required to be saved - to believe in Him. Nothing more. The thief on the cross believed in him, and he was with Jesus in paradise.

naijadeyhia: Read your own post again and see the errors and inconsistencies that leap out at you there. It is obvious you do not read before you copy and paste all over the place.

alexleo: Now you are getting it all wrong. May be you think am here to argue or defend my church or my interest. NO. Remember i said if you have more to present on this issue pls do. we are only rubbing minds. What i have been presenting here is the scriptures and if you feel i ve not done enough that there are scriptures i left out pls feel free to present them. i can never doubt anything in the scriptures. What i will doubt is your own interpretations. Thanks. But you if you have argument in mind then, sorry, not for this thread sir. Cheers.

alexleo: We will only leave it at where bible stopped. No restrictions. I wonder if the holy spirit will lead children of God to go do it in a brothel. A child of God in the first place is not associated with brothel in anyway. But if the person says thats where the "holy spirit" led him to do it, then thats the person's business and it is only God that will judge him on that. When you claim that the holy spirit led you to do something, you must also be ready to defend it before the judgment throne. You cant accuse God falsely before the judgment throne and go free.

alexleo: The place i quoted in Acts, the Eunuch first of all believed before he was baptized. You can read it up again.

alexleo: The place i quoted in Acts, the Eunuch first of all believed before he was baptized. You can read it up again.

alexleo: Jesus did not give us a command on where we should break the bread. He did his own in somebody's house as recorded in the same chapter we read here in Matthew 26;18-

18 And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.”

Since there was no command on venue here, then we shouldnt also restrict venue. Neither did it say it must be in a church.