₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: I get what you are doing mate, you are just a die hard follower of the son of perdition. I hope You come to the realisation of the power of God through Christ plus nothing.

If Paul tells you he baptised someone, remember he also preached the gospel of 'Christ is the son of God' before he left for Arabia. He came back with a gospel of the death burial and resurrection of Christ.

Can you see it was all progressive and not a stagnant revelation from his conversion.

Like I asked earlier, have you checked Romans 8?

Why are you scared to answer my questions?

@ Superior1, this thread is still not about baptism. I have been using the issue of baptism to prove that private interpretation only brings the kind of chaos that you guys have exhibited on this thread. Guys like you are the reason that christendom is in such a fragmented state today. Millions and millions of contradictory doctrines...and they all lie that they are led to interpret scripture correctly by the one Holy Spirit.

You might want to re-read the first page of this thread.

superior1: Ok, I have questions on that. The water baptism in the bible, includes total submersion in a river of thr person being baptism, how come that of catholic uses pouring of water on the head?

Please to read to acquaint yourself of the reasons for Catholic methods of baptism.

www.catholic.com/tracts/baptism-immersion-only

As usual, I'm willing to answer any objections you have on that.

Have a good read.

shdemidemi: I know you get to a point where you decide to act a fool. You and I know your are not, the man is telling you and I ( the church) that he has not come to baptise.

Have u read your Romans 6?

Yet he "REbaptised" Gaius and Crispus who were, according to you, already baptised when they believed. WHY?

Someone is wrong between you and Paul...and it isnt the Saint.

Also you havent told me whether a human being can baptise another human being with the Holy Spirit.

Why are you scared to answer that?

superior1: It wasn't stated and the reason is obvious, you only do water baptism for a believer, should I quote examples for you?.

So why do water baptism if a believer is already saved anyway?

Italo, if my question has been answered elsewhere by you, why don't you copy and paste it here, you are not derailing the thread by doing so, alexleo will complain on that since he is the OP.

Out of the 21 rules pasted above, I dont see any one that says only the OP can complain about derailing a thread. It is nairaland's number 1 standard rule to ensure fair, reasonable, honest and open discussions.

Why are you afraid to open a new thread to discuss Catholic doctrines and practises one by one?

Why are you so bent on derailing this one?

Is it because you guys have been found really wanting?

shdemidemi: Stop saying or insinuating what you don't know especially when what you should know has been written in black and white. The man said he didn't come to baptise, why don't you leave it at that and listen to what Christ had sent him to do.

I am not speaking my word, if you want scriptural references I will gladly paste you enough.

Open your mind and accept Christ without Jewish tradition/ rituals and profane worship.

Why would Paul rebaptise baptised people?

superior1: Why do you do baptism for babies, knowing that none was done in the bible, besides a condition for baptism is repentance and acceptance of Christ, how do a baby make these decisions?

Brother, pls find in the link below, a comprehensive defence of the Catholic practice of Infant Baptism.
www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism
Please let me know any objection you have especially where it relates to the interpretation of God's word.

debosky: Oh? So you still proclaim indulgences the way you did in say, the 1400's?

"Please Observe The Following Rules: (skip)
1. Please post on topic always. Don't derail or tribalize threads."--Nairaland

Let's not be unruly.

It is very easy to open a new thread to discuss Catholic doctrines and practises...and I'd be very eager to participate.

Why are you guys so bent on derailing this one?

Is it because you teaching on private interpretation has been exposed as inadequate?

Because your claims that your interpretations are from the Holy Spirit have been shown to be lies?

shdemidemi: You have an habit of not wanting to be responsible for your utterance and your belief.

I asked you a question- did the scripture mention when and how they were baptised?

Answer that so we can proceed.

No...but we know that they were definitely baptised by Paul before or after they believed.

Paul could not have baptised unbelievers. So that leaves only one option: he baptised them after they believed.

Yet you say that by believing, one is baptised...

If it were so Paul would not have "REBAPTISED" them.

You're wrong.

shdemidemi: Why are you directing us to google, please defend whatever you say with facts. Thanks

I'm sure Superior1 has a superior understanding of what I meant by my post...never mind.

For you, my question is: did Paul baptise Gaius and Crispus before they believed or after they believed?

Also, can one human being baptize another human with the Spirit?

Thank you.

superior1: I am not asking for a thread, I am asking you Italo for what you have to say. I won't refer you to a thread if you ask me a question, so please demonstrate your knowledge of this issue or tell me if you don't know, wish is ok.

I never wished to repeat the same thing for a third time...but here I am.

I havent said I wont tell you. I am not particularly referring you to another thread. If I ask you a question that you feel is derailing the thread then you would be right in asking me to open a new thread to discuss the new topic.

The number one rule here is:

1. Please post on topic always. Don't derail or tribalize threads.

So I say again. Open a new thread and I am even more eager than you to discuss Catholic doctrines and practises.

superior1: Please quote the verse and chapter of the scripture of this.

1Cor1:14.

Next time, just do a google search.

Type something like "Paul baptised Gaius" and the verse will come up.

superior1: Ok, let's start with praying to dead saints

I guess you only read the second part of my post. Let me re-post the first part, this time in bold.

italo:
There are many threads treating these issues. If they are not enough, kindly open another one and I will be glad to enlighten you on the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church. This one is mainly about the effectiveness of private reading and interpretation of scripture...or lack of it.

Surely, you wont miss it again.

shdemidemi: Was Paul baptised by water?

How many churches did he baptise by water?

Baptism is imperative when you believe the gospel of Christ. The day you believe, what you are admitting is

I am a sinner with or without what I have personally done

I am put to death with Christ (baptism)

I resurrect with Christ

I have a new man (a soul)

Let us take the case of Gaius and Crispus. Did Paul baptise the before they believe or after they believed?

Bidam: Ok,explain to us how the baptism is done in your church.

In a nutshell, by pouring water over the head of the person in question and invoking the Holy Spirit by proclaiming: "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

If you want a comprehensive explanation of the totality of what baptism is I will either refer you to authoritative Catholic sources or quote from them for you.

If you want to know about a particular aspect of baptism...feel free to ask...bearing in mind the topic of this thread. Thank you.

superior1: @ Italo, since you are a good catholic, can you explain these issues of (1)purgatory (2)why pope is the head of the church and why he is infallible (3) why you pray to saints.

Kindly support them with scriptural verses.

In addition.
I have been to Rome but never have the pleasure of visiting the vatican, a friend who did brought pictures of dead bodies of saints installed in glasses and placed within the church, you see them when you enter to pray or mass, can you show why this is scriptural in the bible or do you need me to post the pictures?

There are many threads treating these issues. If they are not enough, kindly open another one and I will be glad to enlighten you on the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church. This one is mainly about the effectiveness of private reading and interpretation of scripture...or lack of it.

However, I will make an appeal. In order to show that you want to engage in an open, honest discussion, raise one issue at a time..not a hundred at a time. Thank you.

shdemidemi: My brother, I have told you the apostle sent to you and I as Gentiles. That is not to say we cannot pick one or two lessons from every part of the scripture as long as it points us to Christ.

Water baptism is a Jewish order (Judaism) while the baptism into Christ is imperative at the point when we accept the gospel of Christ.

You still dont get it, do you?

NOBODY BELIEVES IN YOUR 2-GOSPELS TEACHING!

If you people tell lies that the Holy Spirit is teaching you contradictory things and I point that out, does that mean I am discrediting you guys?

Or I should give you credit for that?

Bidam: Clearly you are just here to discredit people and never to learn.The scriptures i quoted were in correct harmony with my statement.Baptism is not necessary for salvation. PAUL BUTTRESSED THAT FACT LOUD AND CLEAR.GET THAT INTO UR SKULL.

There is nowhere that scripture says baptism is not necessary for salvation.

Instead, scripture says baptism SAVES. 1Pet 3:21.

You say that I am here to discredit people...how?

Can you point out a LIE I told against anyone?

If English has never been explained to you from a credible channel...then no wonder you cannot understand scripture.

Bidam: The Holy Spirit of promise is that seal.when Philip preached the gospel,there was still a problem until Peter and John came on the scene, no one would have detected the problem of simon.

Bidam: When they believed the Gospel.The apostles laid there hands on men who were already believers to receive the holy Spirit

Please look at these two statements.

What purpose then, did the seal (baptism according to you) serve?

shdemidemi: How come you understand some, isn't that wrong? Considering the fathers have to interpret them in counsel before passing it to you.

I understand them within the context of what the Church has taught.

It's not wrong.

shdemidemi: I am sure you know the answer to your question plus I don't need any elder to tell me your mind after reading your posts.

Have you not been refuting the fact that we can study and get the right interpretation to scriptures ?

I'm sure you know the answer to your question.

shdemidemi: Why would I hate a verse in the bible! The issue is do you even understand what you read except they come interpret it to you?

Some, I do; others, I dont.

Unlike you, who 'understands' everything...by the "Holy Spirit."

shdemidemi: What have you been trying to prove all along?

Holy Spirit that, private interpretation this..bro I know your main aim on this forum is not about Christ but to proliferate your church and your fathers.

Only God knows my mind more than me. Are you him?

shdemidemi: Lol, typical. Guess you see no contradictions in what I am saying so there is no point looking at it.

You would rather pick a post where you can find contradictions to prove your fathers are right.

Oh! Now you want to discuss Church fathers?

Why do you hate staying on topic?

shdemidemi: Thank God you agree you are rigid. Even when you see the truth, the son of perdition has locked your mind up. I wonder what you come to a forum like this for though! I guess you come here to come find more members to your roman church.

I know your truth changes from time to time. Afterall you said Jesus (who is the truth) changes. You gospel even changes...from Jesus' to Paul's.

Mine never does.

The truth is the same yesterday and today and forever.Heb 13:8

I know you hate that verse.

shdemidemi: Bro, I believe I have shared the story of apollos with you, ok I will do that again
Acts 18
Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26

This man was a good teacher but the only issue here was that he did not know about the new revelation/ gospel that has been revealed to Paul. Paul had met a couple called Aquila and priscilla, he had shared the gospel with them, what did they do when they saw apollos teaching?

Act 18:26b
When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

What did this teacher do from then?

18)And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; 28 for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

Philip did what he knew at the time, is that sufficient for us today? No.

Dont confuse me. The post was not for you who believes in 2gospels. It was for Bidam who believes in 1gospel.

I thought you had a question to ask me about my belief and I asked you what was it. Later now you will accuse me of never answering questions you never asked.

alexleo: Of course its possible. Who is claiming perfect? So what's the essence of rubbing minds that I ve been talking about if not to look at what each other have to present here to approve or disapproved whatever stand we have. I keep saying we are here to learn. Does a perfect man go for learning? No and of course no human is perfect. I always come here to learn and share the little I can. I can tell you I ve been learning but you seem to be the type that is rigid at heart, holding so tightly to your church practices without giving room to what others have. It doesn't work that way but if you are okay with it then go ahead. Thanks.

The fact that you can be wrong on what you think you know shows that you can be wrong on even what you think you are learning. Afterall, the things you say can possibly be wrong today, you learnt yesterday. What you learn today could be wrong tomorrow. What you will learn next year could be wrong in 2years time. So you can never be sure of the truth till you die. Imagine what that could mean for your soul.

On the contrary, the Catholic faith does not change because truth never changes.

What we proclaimed 2000yrs ago, we will proclaim 2000yrs from now.

If we are rigid, it it because truth is rigid.

Bidam: The Holy Spirit of promise is that seal.when Philip preached the gospel,there was still a problem until Peter and John came on the scene, no one would have detected the problem of simon.

So when did the believers in that passage get the "seal?"

When they believed or when Peter and John came?

shdemidemi: The seal comes with the salvation, we do not need to be taken to a river anymore.

Romans 6

The gentiles that were saved when they believed in Acts 10(even receiving the Holy Spirit)...why did Peter baptise them with water...if they already had that "seal?"

Syncan: Frankly speaking, I think you are struggling to defend your position. You may want to take another look at this. Its not like when you speak confidently elsewhere I know.

To be frank, the things he has being saying on this thread have shocked me.