₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus: Seriallink it seems on this i will have to heap the blame one you! I'm not suprised that every catholic who came on the thread believes you delibrately, purposely and maliciously misrepresented them and that the thread is trying to insult catholics! The whole problem YOU caused when you claimed "catholics believe non catholic are hell bond" this is more or less insultive, even if it may be a mistake it protray a balant misrepresentation of catholic teaching and most certainly will be regarded as a sentence meant to bash catholics. While i do not wish to dwell on the said sentence since i also consider it a misrepresentation, i think u have recieved enough hitting for that sentence so i'll address the other points.
To the question of the thread, the answer is yes! Catholics consider d church as the one true church built by christ on the apostles and that peter in particular was given the "keys of the kingdom" and that thru the apostles the church has recieved the power to "bind and lose", "proclaim the gospel" and the power to forgive sins in christ names and that the leaders of the church do have a right, a duty or rather a responsible to excercise all the above ministries as d apostles did in their day.
Yeah! The church teaches that she is the body of christ and she is one in doctrine, holy becos christ her head is holy and by his grace continue to make us holy and granting us his righteous, catholic because her mission is universal and apostolic cos the apostles are her foundation. We believe that God used peter as a symbol of unity in da church thus given him the key of d kingdom (biblically d key of d kingdom belong to the prime minister) and thus make him a fore...minister of da gospel and that that office has alway remained in the church. And yeah we believe that all salvation comes from christ and that christ has given d church -his body- as a permanent and effective path of salvation.
So yes i'll say d bible quotation was refering to the catholic church. Big claims they seem! And yeah that i believe.
As regard the part on non catholic, I believe that ALL men who believe in christ Jesus and are justified by faith thru baptism are incorporated into christ's body, they therefore have a right to be called christians and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the lord. I believe the holyspirit can and does work on all men even non catholic. So yeah i believe protestants are part of dat body of christ and are in communion with the catholic church even though the said communion is imperfect. So even though i clearly hold that you and other protestants have rejected, throw away, modified parts of the truth of God i do not claim u are hell bound unless u knowingly and delibrately rejected the truth. That is 4 u and ur conscience!
I believe i aswered ya question.

Seconded by Italo.

The one who is condemned is the one who knows that the Catholic faith is the true faith and rejects it deliberately. And that doesn't apply only to other Christians, it also applies to non-Christians and even non-religious people e.g Atheists.

Boomark: At first you did not explain anything. Let me explain it to you with my own parable.

A prince was sent to a land under the control of his father to get a priceless treasure. He went there and the people did not know him. They despise him, spat on him and pushed him out of the way as they pass. But he did not talk back at them, his voice was not heard on the broad way, mt 12:18-19. He did not say "don't you know i am the prince? And you people must show your respect to me." but he took the form of a servant, associated with the lowly ones until he achieved what his father wants from him. When he returned, his father glorified him and made him the crown prince.

This it for you. Your interpretation should not contradict the bible.

italo: Phillipians 2:6: Who, being in very nature God,
   did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.

He had EQUALITY with God but didn't consider it something to be used to his advantage.

Boomark: That Jesus is God is not a problem. Where the problem lies is when the servant(our Lord Jesus) is made equal to His master and His God(the Father).

Phillipians 2:5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
   did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

Did you see that?

Do you need further explanation?

Boomark: before i answer,
1cor 8:5-6 says there are gods both in heaven and on earth. An elder in heaven(god) and a king(god) on earth can never be equal. Even in heaven there are ranks among gods. Some bible translation use "Lord" for Christ and the same for men.

The capital letter "G" or small letter "g" does not indicate equality. It is just an english alphabet.

So Jesus is God.

For clarity purposes, in jn 1:1, interpreters should have used "God" for the Father and "god" for the word.

So you know better than the interpreters.

Anyway, you also agree that Jesus is God.

That is enough.

Boomark:
^Those posts above were well planned. A post with no escape route. If you fight it you will reveal the idol worship you defend more and more.

Let us(me, you and your catholic fellows) start today to solely rely on the help of the Holyspirit.

I hope you will burn every idol, graven images in your possession you use as prayer aid and let the Holyspirit aid you? Will you do that for God?

Before that; are you admitting that you've not been relying solely on the help of the Holy Spirit or not?

If you haven't, what else have you been relying on, thieves?

Boomark: The word refers to Jesus.

The Word is God(Jesus(this is not
saying Jesus is the Father)).

...What is it saying?...that Jesus is God or not?

Todaynatoday: The word obviously stands for the Son of God. But I am amazed at the extent some people would go to defend something that is not true. Now let us look at the verse you posted.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

Look at the underlined word leading to the next sentence. How can I be with someone and still be that same person. When the bible says that Jesus is God, it is not implying that Jesus is Yahweh. Even Jesus called men gods so why can He also not be referred to as a God?

So you agree that the Bible says that Jesus is God.

That is enough!

@ Boomark,

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

What did John mean by "word"?

Boomark: Did you ask your self how many handkerchiefs the apostles blessed for the people to use and heal themselves. How many? Let God use you as He will. Sorcery is everywhere my brother even in the church.

You tell me how many...and how many people got healed through the handkerchief. Also tell me how many people got healed through Peter's shadow and the bronze serpent. Then tell me the relevance of your question. Mr Ibu!

Boomark: To worship God in truth and in spirit, God has given His Holyspirit as your prayer aid. Your prayer aid should not be graven images of Mary, Jesus and lucifer.

Romans 8:25-27
New International Version (NIV)
25 But if we hope for what we do
not yet have, we wait for it
patiently.
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps
us in our weakness. We do not
know what we ought to pray for,
but the Spirit himself intercedes for
us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts
knows the mind of the Spirit,
because the Spirit intercedes for
God’s people in accordance with
the will of God.

We do not know what to pray for, we do not even know what our God looks like. But by faith, through the Holyspirit we get connected to Him.

This verse also has no relevance to what is being discussed.

Boomark: God has already provided a perfect intercessor(the Holyspirit) for his people who intercede according to His will. But the catholics church, wallowing in the doctrine on men presented Mary. Thus fuelling the wrath of God on those that practice it. This very clear, a perfect deviation from the perfect will of God.

Am not judgmental but "rebukmental."

And non-Catholics presented thieves and liars like Oritsejafor and Chris Okotie, right? Why don't you also rely on the Spirit? Why do you rely on rogues to pray for you?

ijawkid: The word ""protestants"" isn't my business......it isn't in the bible neither do I cherish the word.............I'm only just saying that if the apostles existed today catholics would term them as ""PROTESTANTS""......and I gave the reason why......

ijawkid: From your comments I can conclude that the apostles and 1st century christians were protestants too.....

Because there form of worship and the traditions they upheld(just as Jesus laid down) are totally different from what the catholics practice......


If the apostles were alive today they'll be protestants too............
_____________________________

So which branch of protestantism wouldd the apostles be? Anglican, Methodist or Redeemed? Baptist, Deeper Life or Mountain of Fire? Household, House on the Rock or Synagogue?

Which of these branches of Protestantism upholds the mode of worship and traditions of the Apostles?

Aha! It's the Jehovah's Witnesses, isn't it?

You are the ones that uphold Apostolic traditions and mode of worship, aren't you? *smiles*

Rich4god: @Italo and Ube... Kepp it up. Really like how you guys are reaponding to this thread. May God bless you with aboundant wisdom and knowlegde. Glory to JESUS.

...Honour to Mary! Amen and thank you. God bless you too. Its such an honour that Christ has considered us all worthy to defend him and his Church.

Boomark: My thick skull have fully understood it. That i should not use idol as prayer aid(like catholics do) but to allow the holy spirit to aid me.

It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that the images are consecrated and become sacramentals. Just like St. Paul's handkerchief and St. Peter's shadow that healed people. It wasn't the shadow and handkerchief that healed, it was the Spirit working through those media. So he who believes in the efficacy of the shadow and handkerchief actually believes in the limitless power of the Holy Spirit. So too, the images.

Boomark: Its not by force to believe what is written in the bible as it. You are free to add and bring in your own doctrine or twist it to suit you.

You mean it is not by force to believe what you think the Bible says. I'm not adding MY doctrine. I'm proclaiming the true Christian doctrine that the apostles handed down. You are the one trying to force your personal fallible doctrine on all Catholics...and we are free to reject it. Thank you.

Boomark: It is not also by force to stop worshiping the image of the beast. The lake of fire awaits the beast and his servants.

Amen! So you know the image of the beast?! How did you get to know it? Are you one of the servants of the beast?

Welder: Ok. I am a Catholic.

I have to say while i dont agree with some comments from UBenedcitus and Italo, I have to hail them for standing by their faith. May we all win this earthly race.

Amen and thank you.

However, as a Catholic, I'm interested in knowing the comments of Ubenedictus and myself (at least some of them) that you don't agree with.

Perhaps, we are misrepresenting the position of the Church (that would be a grave error). Perhaps, we might learn a thing or two from you...and/or vice versa.

Of course, only if you're willing to share, thank you.

vickyO: @ ITALO An annoited person is one who uses his power in Christ to perform signs and wonders,

How do you know your pastor is performing "signs and wonders" by Christ's power, and not Satan's power. Are there not pastors who we hear use evil powers? Like T.B Joshua and Rev. King, some might say. How do I know that your pastor even performs any signs and wonders?

vickyO: preach the solid gospel with the backing of the Holy Spirit,

How do you know he is preaching the solid gospel with the Holy Spirit's backing? Can you prove it? Are you saying your pastor cannot preach or teach something that is wrong?

vickyO: who can bring to nought the authorities of principalities and powers in heavenly places and many others. this is how i know my Pastor is annoited.

In that case I'm anointed too because I do that with God's power and sometimes, through the intercession of Mary and the Saints. In Yoruba movies, I see where babalawos do that by appeasing deities responsible for people's problems to free them. Are these anointed too?
Could your pastor not be doing same?

You haven't given me concrete evidence or reason as to how you know your pastor is anointed.

vickyO: [color=#000000] Your turn- how did you know Mary and the Saints are ALIVE in heaven?[/color]

Jesus said so in John 11:26:"and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

The Church he built also says so.

By communing with Mary and the Saints all my life I have realized that they are actually in heaven as Jesus and the Church say. I have had countless revelations to show that the Saints are just as Jesus and the Church say they are: ALIVE in HEAVEN!

Boomark: Let me put it this way.

An Israelite who is sick went to where Moses kept the bronze snake, stood it up and knelt before it. He prayed to God to heal him while he had faith that by looking unto the bronze snake God will heal him through it. Let me say he used the bronze snake as a prayer aid.

Do you think God will be happy with such act?

I don't know what Mosaic law would say about someone going in secret to use the bronze serpent as prayer aid. Who knows, even where Moses kept the serpent, if it is a place that an ordinary person shouldn't go. I will liken it to Holy Communion. We believe that Holy Communion is Jesus and that Communion can heal us, commune with us as Jesus did when he was on earth in human form. But we believe that in order to benefit from the blessings of communion, you should receive it or commune with it within the guidelines that the Church has laid down...and we believe the Church communicates God's intentions, like the israelites believed Moses did. So if a person goes to where Holy Communion is kept and takes it on his own (which is against Church law) he might even be bringing a curse on himself. That is why I have to know what Mosaic law has to say about using the bronze serpent in secret before I can even imagine if God will be happy with him or not. Can you tell me what it says?

Boomark: v20 shows that samaritans worship in the mountains while the Jews say it should be in Jerusalem. While Christ was trying to tell her that a time is coming when she will be able to worship the Father even at that well, in her kitchen, bathroom, every where in every way...but it must be in spirit and in truth.

You have answered for me. So what matters most is the sincere intention of your heart, more than the way you worship. That is what I have been trying to drum into your thick skull for ages. You finally got it. Praise be to the Holy Spirit! Now who is it than can see the intentions of a man's heart...and his spirit, to know if he is sincerely worshipping God or not? Is it men (like you) or God?

Boomark: I hope you wount reject the truth if i tell you? According to the passage, who do we worship? The Father, Jesus said so. God(The Father) is a spirit and those that will worship Him must do that in spirit(with all ur heart) and in truth(accurate knowledge of Him). Do you regard Him as trinity or as the only true God?

Both! The Holy Trinity is the only true God.

Boomark: This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ, jn 17:3. Read acts 3:13 you will see who the God of our forefathers is and who his servant is. Do you know God(the Father) as the one and only true God?

Yes...as I see Jesus as the only true God. And the Holy Spirit too.

Boomark: The samaritans fear God but worship idol, 2kings 17:33. This is synonymous to what we are rebuking you people for. You better stop now.

The verse says "the Samaritans worshipped God..." Are you trying to say we Catholics worship God too? Did the Samaritans ever deny worshipping idols as Catholics do? The people who are synonymous with the verse above are Christians who still go to babalawos and engage in occult practices, and they abound everywhere. Not faithful Catholics who only know the one true God.

ijawkid: I'm happy to be witnessing about YAHWEH.......

As for you ,you worship a woman,who's dead and whom you claim to be the queen of heaven...........

Smh!!!!!.......

SMH still!!!!!

Jehovah's witness!!!!!!

ijawkid: SMH!!!!!!!..........

Mary worshipper.....

OLODO rabata!!!!!!!........

SMH!!!!!!!

Jehovah's witness!!!!!!

truthislight: we have the name "christians" with reference to those who accept christ in the bible.

Do we have the word "Catholic" in the bible? No.

So, why force it on me if i say i am ok with the name "christian"?

I know that you know that word "christians" means followers of christ?

Should this not be enough?

Was ignatiouse an apostle of christ? No.

Do we have the name "Bible" in the Bible? No.

Who created the book and named it "Bible"?

The Catholic Church.

So why do you use the name "Bible" or the book?

truthislight: you call me small boy meanwhile am far above forty yrs.

Far above forty years?! How come you reason as if you are far below fourteen?

I didn't mean small boy in age, I meant small boy in reasoning.

truthislight: If it is not true that i am a small boy to you and you lied by calling me a smell boy, if i curse you it will stick!

If you curse, you would be cursing your family and future generations, not me. You think I am a pentecostal that will hear curse and start to panic? Go ahead and curse and let us see the result. Idiot. You are angry that I'm misrepresenting your age but you are misrepresenting the age of the Catholic Church.

Baby! Kill yourself if it makes you too angry.

Dumb-ass. Jesus is. Mary is the Ark that carried the new covenant - the Word in flesh, just like the old Ark carried the old covenant - the Word on stone.

Read again.

By the way, is that the Jehovah's Witness?

seriallink: ^^^ Get off my thread hater!!!

Your gibberish is not acceptable here

It was you who confessed that you are "beginning to hate Catholics." Then you turn around to accuse us of hating you.

Are you really this deceitful or you just have a bad memory?

truthislight: so to you there was no church befor the word "catholic was coin abi?

Small boy. It was that same Church that existed before the name "Catholic" was used to describe it.

seriallink: @italo,
Oh, okay, who is the liar now Mr. Italo?? Do you want to tell me that you've searched all the topics on the religion section? You are indeed a twister and a pathetic liar!

You are the liar. You lied that most Catholic debaters on nairaland think that other churches are hell bound. Yet you cannot give just ONE quote out of the so-called many. Rather you put up a link that says nothing like that. Who do you intend to deceive.

seriallink: I gave a you a search clue, does that make it an evidence? Smh. And like I said before, if you do not have anything reasonable to contribute, just get the fúck off my thread!

We asked for evidence, not search clue, hypocrite. I have something reasonable to contribute. I have been talking about the origin of the church and the bible. Apparently your anti-Catholic eyes don't see what is on nairaland, they only "see" what does not exist on nairaland.

seriallink: Everyone on this section knows you are a disingenuous debater. I do not have the time search and bring out your comments because it isn't why I created the thread!

Another LIE. Not everyone thinks that I'm a disingenious debater. Oh! You mean you and your fellow mindless anti-Catholics?

[quote author=i.chuka]Loizz!!!
So your church created the bible(which is the word of God).
Meaning that your church created God.as the word of God is GodHimself.
Chei!!
Oboy i no fit shout 4you.Loizz[/quote]No! The Bible fell from the sky. Mr Ibu.

seriallink: You might wanna start from this thread : www.nairaland.com/1124359/photos-worlds-tallest-statue-jesus/1#13263300

You're just a pathetic shameless liar. No where on that thread does a Catholic say that "other churches are hell bound."

seriallink: I'll soon create a list of Catholic pharisees on nairaland. You and italo will definitely top the list

I would be honoured to be on your list just like I'm honoured to be amongst the people you are "beginning to hate."

Considering that you are full of LIES, its okay for you to name me among your "Catholic pharisees" as it would mean that the opposite is the truth.

FXKing2012: The apostles were called Christians for the first time on the day of the penticost (Acts 2). This means that the first Christians were penticostal Christians.
So quit spreading the false notion that the first Christians were catholics.

You are funny.

Firstly, they were not called "Christians" on that day.

Your post would also mean that the first Christians were Redeemers because the apostles were redeemed; and the first Christians belonged to Living Faith Church because the apostles had living faith; same goes for the Christ Apostolic Church, Deeper Life, etc

This is not a wise way to look at it.

The early Church was Catholic. Its just as simple as that. Pathetic manipulations like this cannot change the true history of Christianity.

aletheia: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (Revelation 11:19)

Rev 11:19 - 12:1:

"Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm. And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars"

There it is. The Ark of the new covenant - Mary the mother of Jesus the new covenant.

Remember, these chapters weren't numbered at the time this book was written.

seriallink: You are one of those that are guilty of this, I'm sure! Do I have to do the search for you?? I don't have the time, do it yourself brah! This thread isn't about that like I stated above!

Brah, abeg no carry your beaf somewhere come infest my thread o!

Stop trolling!

At least own up to your LIE if you cannot provide ONE single quote of where a Catholic said "other churches are hell bound."

I don't think I'm asking for too much by saying "prove your LIE."

[quote author=i.chuka]So all the Churches i mentioned are Catholic? Loiz!!
Ok oo,if that's what your bible tells you.
Funny is an understated if being use to describe you.[/quote]The Catholic Church existed before the Bible and created it.

So you don't go to the Bible for the history of The Catholic Church, rather, you go to the Catholic Church for the history of the Bible.

[quote author=i.chuka]Dude,the Holy Bible is more than enough for Christains.infact one/two verses from the bible is enough to last a Christain a life time.[/quote]The Holy Bible wasn't enough for the early Christians, infact it didn't even exist then... And it surely wasn't enough for St. Paul who said in 2Thess 2:15: "So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[c] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

But apparently, you know better than St. Paul.

Boomark: You mean you don't know that the bronze snake is the image they looked unto and got healed? So answer the question.

My question will help me understand your question. You surely don't expect me to answer a question I don't understand.

So if you want me to answer, you know what to do.

Boomark: pastors whether anointed or 'un-anointed' as long as the person is a human being, he can pray for anyone. Spirits/dead cannot.

Mary and the Saints are alive.