₦airaland Forum

What then happened with Judas, for example. Was he saved in or not?

@Bojiboji,

Just a word of advice. . . Save your time and energy. This lady will not understand a word you say. Her head is already filled with what she wants it to be filled with. There is no space for anything else. . . Not even TRUTH.

@olaadegbu,

Are you still saying that it is impossible for a Christian to knowingly commit a sin? YES or NO!

5solas:
If you cannot consider a simple case or an average case (but would rather stick to your extreme case), I am going to allow a stalemate (for now), but note you are on check   .

I didn't say I cannot consider your case, I'm all to eager to do that. Its infact you preventing me from answering because you are ignoring MY question. Why? I don't know.

And your case is not simple or 'average'; I'll show you how its even more complex than mine as soon as you answer.

"Stalemate" "check" Is that how you handle this? A game to be won? I'm more interested in winning a soul or two (either mine or yours or both) by discovering a truth I never knew or confirming the truth I always knew. . .Even though I think its you on check, and in dire need of - and eager for - a stalemate.

@olaadegbu,

I'm having a hard time trying to understand the meaning of your last post. Are you maintaining your stance that 'a Christian CANNOT deliberately sin or you're somewhat changing it. If you're changing it, what is your new stance? Feel free.

@5solas,

Do you mind answering my question first; then I'll answer yours. Thanks.

5solas:
Sometimes, words fail us. I agree completely that a christian does not deliberately sin , in this wise- it is not in his nature so to do. However, it should not be stretched to imply that a believer CANNOT deliberately sin . I believe most sins are willful. The thrust of his post is that the believer does not delight in sin/sinning.

Ok, I actually only asked if you agree with the statement. From your post, you obviously don't agree, at least, not completely.

But you did a little more. Your post seems to suggest that olaadegbu might not have meant it the way it looks. That the words he used probably don't convey what he must have had in mind. That - I think - is unnecessary. Olaadegbu is the only one that can tell us if 'words failed him'. Let him say.

Now coming back to you. Since you admit that a born-again Christian can commit sin willfully, what then happens to a born-again Christian who commits a serious sin e.g adultery or murder, and then he doesn't repent before he dies. Let us imagine that he didn't repent, not because he didn't want to, but because he procastinated until it was too late.

Does such a man go to heaven because he was born-again or does he go to hell because of the gravity of his sins?

@5solas,

Do you agree with olaadegbu's statement in post #71 that "a Christian does not deliberately commit sin, if a Christian sins, it is against his will"?

Why are you so in a rush to shout me down?

Did you see the 'eg' before the fornication?

If you don't know which post I'm making reference to why not ask patiently, or be quiet about it?

Who - on this thread - has said that salvation is deserved? Again, if after reading the title, you still don't know the bone of contention on this thread, why not go on another thread?

Anyway I was referring to the post above the one you think, where he said "salvation produces good works" and "saving faith will be demonstrated in good works".

So I wonder, since salvation alone produces good works, it cannot produce bad works. Does this mean that if I see a man doing a bad thing, he hasn't been saved?

In other words, can a born-again christian sin? YES or NO!

Or, to personalize it, since you became born-again, have you sinned? YES or NO!

Are you implying that one that is saved (born-again) cannot commit sin eg fornication?

Mass Reading & Meditation for December 16, 2011

Meditation: Isaiah 56:1-3,6-8

“My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.” (Isaiah 56:7)

The children of Israel knew who belonged to God’s chosen people and who did not. That was one of the reasons they preserved their ge nealogies so carefully. They knew God had revealed himself to them in a unique way.

And yet God kept trying to ex pand their vision. He reminded them that because they had been “strangers” in Egypt, they should show special care for the “aliens” among them. He urged them also to pray for the well-being of the pagans in whose land they were ex iled. Even their Temple had a “court of the Gentiles,” where people of every race and religious tradition were welcome to come and seek the Lord. In fact, one of the reasons Jesus got so upset with the money changers was that they were set ting up a raucous marketplace in what God intended as a place of prayer for these outsiders.

Since few of us were born Jews, we should be very grateful that God hasn’t excluded us. Perhaps we can remember a time when we felt ill at ease, on the fringes. Perhaps we em braced the Catholic faith later in life.

Perhaps we moved to a new place, and it took a while for us to feel at home in an unfamiliar parish. Per haps we had trouble getting used to the new music after Vatican II. Per haps we are having a hard time adjusting to the liturgical changes that happened just a couple of weeks ago. At times like these, how fortu nate we are if someone reaches out and helps draw us in!

From time to time, it’s a good idea to seek out the “strangers” God may be trying to draw to himself. It may be a visitor to your church who doesn’t know where to find the re sponses. It may be a neighbor who is struggling financially and is looking for a respectful greeting or a help­ing hand. It may be someone trying to find his way after spending time in prison or a rehab facility. Your kindness can provide that person’s pathway to a deeper worship—and it can help make your church into a house of prayer for “all peoples.”

“Jesus, thank you for seeking me when I was a stranger. Help me to see the ones you long to draw closer to your heart through me.”

Psalm 67:2-3,5,7-8; John 5:33-36

Lol @plappville,

Ok, I'm the liar. Catholics worship the devil, Mary, Saints and any other thing that is not God, that's what you're saying,right?

Can you now buzz off and let me talk with any one who has a brain?

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=814678.msg9769923#msg9769923 date=1323946207]^You are starting to sound redundant.

Please stop derailing the thread.

Find a way to deal with your personal insecurities instead of continually hounding others over irrelevancies.[/quote]Firstly, i wasnt talking to you. Secondly, i dont see how im derailing the thread. The OP says "will a born-again Christian commit adultery"? And I'm asking people who claim to be born-again if they ever commit sin.

So what is your problem with me? I've apologized for any wrong I might have done you (even though I don't remember any such thing). I even asked you to tell me what wrong I've done so I can adjust.

Well, thank you and God bless. Can I have peace now?

You just want to engage me in your usual senseless discussions but I don't want to waste my time and energy. Nobody can free you from a lost mind. Only you can free yourself - if you're feeling.

But let me just show that you're the LIAR here: are you not the one who said this in the other thread? Admit the truth for once, 'mrs born-again'

Even after I showed you where Peter said "Judas purchased a land with the reward of INIQUITY" in Acts, you still said the Bible didn't say they sinned. Instead of admitting the truth.

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you're been evasive. What do you mean by "a true Child of God will not DELIBERATELY commit adultery". Can he commit adultery MISTAKENLY?

You also said "dedicated Christians don't sin. But if they fall mistakenly they rise again and continue the journey." What is "sin" and what is "fall"?

In order to avoid any confusion, I want to ask you one simple, straight-forward question that no so-called born-again has ever answered. Let's hope you are a true christian and will be truthful and plain.

Throughout the 24years that you have been born again, have you committed ONE sin? YES or NO!

@Rich4god,

Let me warn you, trying to reason with plappville is like pouring water into a basket. Purely waste of time and energy.

This is someone who says that Judas did not sin.

That Peter's cutting of another man's ear was not a sin.

Someone who said "I was once a Catholic" then later said "ok I wasn't a Catholic"

Someone who cannot answer the simple question "since you became born-again, have you committed sin? YES or NO (and I've been asking that for two weeks now)

I know we should always give everyone a chance but I just have to warn you.

She cannot understand anything you say. She doesn't even understand what she herself says.

She talks like a non living thing - like a radio. A radio is just programmed to talk, not to think.

Find out yourself sha. . .

5solas:
In the past the Jesuits were known as Vatican Assassins, today, they are known for giving spins to scriptures. And they are good at it too.

lol. . . this 5solas wont kill us with hatred. anyway we've been warned about it and we're even usd to it. all these attacks are only a confirmation of our faith. i'd probably be disturbed and doubt the church if it didnt experience these kind of attacks.

so go ahead with your baseless allegations. whats your next LIE?

In other not to derail the thread, open another thread if you want to continue where others left off in their senseless tirade on the Catholic Church.

Face the topic of discussion, that's the truth staring you in the face.

The Church 'waives' some of the acts of penance that sinner should do. . .it says nowhere that the righteousness infused is that of the saints. Its God's righteousness that's infused in the doctrine of 'Infused Righteousness'. Why don't you quote the particular doctrine. You're just a pathetic liar.

Your shamelessness has caused you to lose knowledge of common English.

And you want to bury you children? There's the shovel.

No I'm not. Now, if you have scriptural evidence, out with. If you don't, go to bed or something!

There's no indication that the passage is talking about the Catholic Church and there's also no mention of anti-Christ either.

Yes madam! Can I talk to someone that can reason in peace now? Thank you.

5solas:
These men stood against the Roman Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness where the righteousness of the SAINTS and of Christ is gradually infused to the believer through the sacraments.
http://www.theopedia.com/Imputed_righteousness

I knew you were a big liar but I didn't know you were this despicable.

When or where has the Catholic Church ever said the righteousness of SAINTS is infused to believers?

This thread had little to do with the Catholic Church but you have dragged it in just to discredit it with your malicious lies.

May God help you.

Even 5solas hasn't given scriptural proof that the Catholic Church is anti-Christ. So much for 'sola scriptura'.

OLAADEGBU:
For them to give birth to Islam, Nazism and Communism deserves a Nobel peace award and to think that they are now trying to gather all religions in the ecumenical meetings says so much about them.

Prove your lies! dont just blab.

anyone can just wake up and say any rubbish that comes from their deranged mind. one can say olaadegbu is a member of boko haram, while another says 5solas is the one that killed Bola Ige. all that would be like a mad man speaking without proof.

You don't 'imagine' too? You don't think?

@frosbel,

I'm glad you study so fervently the teachings of God. I have no doubt you are on your way home without knowing it. One day that yearning in your heart will lead you home. . . Every christian's home. And you'll be most welcome.

Thank you. You expect me to be wasting my time with you when you can't even understand that INIQUITY = SIN. I have told you where the problem lies. The earlier you start praying for its solution, the better for you. Just stop trying to learn anything for the main time. You won't understand, from the look of things.

Let me discuss with this Hutching guy, he seems to be capable of understanding issues - I think.

@Hutchie,

One after the other, where do you wanna start? What is your No 1 grouse with the Catholic Church?

@plappville,

I'm done with you. Talking to you is a waste of time. How can I be arguing with someone who thinks 'INIQUITY' is not 'SIN'? Your problem is not the Catholic Church or the Bible. Your problem is right inside your brain. It is blocked and seems incapable of understanding anything. Instead of wasting time reading when you can't understand, spend more time praying for your brain to be opened. As kelz said, enjoy!

In case you think I made a mistake, let me make myself clearer: THE CATHOLIC CHURCH CANNOT TEACH ERROR IN ANY ISSUE OF FAITH AND MORALS!!! It is Italo that said so.

Ok boss, you've been noticed. Congrats!

1 Tim 2:5 says: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, " And we Catholics are always told, "there is only one mediator between God and men, Jesus Christ. Therefore, praying to the saints goes against the Bible because you are making them mediators between God and man, you are diminishing Jesus' role as the sole mediator!"
Is that an appropriate interpretation of that passage? No, it's not and let's see why not.

In the O.T. we see that Moses, Abraham, and Job interceded on behalf of others, that's mediating between God and man. We know that it is okay to ask others here on earth to pray and intercede for us, that's mediating between God and man. So, I think, once again, we have a situation where a passage of the Bible is being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus Christ, but as members of the Body of Christ, He allows us to share in His mediation.

Also, Scripture tells us that we have only one foundation, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 3:11); but, Scripture also tells us that there is more than one foundation (Eph 2:19-20). Scripture tells us that we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph 4:4-5); but, Scripture also tells us there is more than one lord (Rev 19:16). Scripture tells us that we have only one Judge, Jesus Christ (James 4:12); but, Scripture also tells us there is more than one judge (1 Cor 6:2).

Contradictions in Scripture? No! Not when these passages are all properly understood in context. Jesus is the only foundation; Jesus is the only Lord; and Jesus is the only Judge. But, we are members of Jesus' Body. Therefore, we are able, according to the graces given by Christ, to share in Jesus' role as foundation, as lord, and as judge, and in other aspects of Christ, as well. Another example, as a father I share in God's role as Father, by His grace. And, so also, we, and the saints in Heaven, and the angels in Heaven, can share in Christ's role as Mediator.

In Jeremiah 7:18, God is upset with the Israelites for worshipping a false goddess called the "queen of heaven". However, just because God rebuked them for worshipping the false queen of heaven, doesn't mean that we cannot pay honour to the true Queen of Heaven, the Blessed Mother.
That type of thinking would lead you to believe that just because people worship a false god that they call "god," we, therefore, should not call the true God, by that same name, God, because that's the same title the idolaters use for their god! That is faulty logic and it makes no sense whatsoever.

Again, the fact that there is a false "queen of heaven", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false goddess when we call Mary the "Queen of Heaven." Just as the fact that there is a false "god", does not lead to the conclusion that we worship a false god when we call our Father in Heaven, God.

And there is a true Queen of Heaven, we see this clearly in Revelation 12:1, "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars, " Let's see. There's a woman, she's in Heaven, and she has a crown on her head. I don't think it's the maid! No! It is the true Queen of Heaven, Mary, the mother of the male child who is to rule the nations.

We do not worship Mary, we honor her, just as Jesus honors her. So, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a scriptural point of view, in calling Mary the Queen of Heaven, and in honoring her just as Jesus honors her.