₦airaland Forum

Adultnextdoor, the Church asks us to fast for an hour before communion to help us prepare for the awesomeness of receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. It so happens that in most parishes in Nigeria on Sundays, the parts of the mass before communion already last an hour or more, as Kevoh said.

We know that fasting is a way to make our minds alert to the things of the Spirit.

Don't mind those criticising the Eucharistic fast. It is because they don't have Jesus in the Eucharist. What they have is biscuit and juice...so they don't have to fast for that.

On a serious note, try to improve your knowledge of the faith...so that Atheists and Protestants won't be yabbing you.

God bless you.

MuttleyLaff:
OK, never mind, seems you're arent aware of the additions inserted in that passage. Seems you dont want to admit whose name specifically was used by the Apostles, Paul included when baptising and/or water baptising after Jesus' death and resurrection

Even if you tried, you know you'll only get yourself tied into a twist with the gymnastics flirtation with Matt 28:19 "invoking the Holy Trinity".
I like how you avoided or sidestepped the question though
I had answered you in so many ways before
but you seem not ready for the truth, talkless of recognising it
Forom another angle, try, a glorified "Placebo effect"?

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
To you, this is a debate, to you, this is about winning, to you, this is about scoring cheap points.
All this, is to you is scalping-cutting for hanging trophies

You, Syncan and Ubenedictus have continually wielded and threw about one form of straw-man to another,
all in different shapes, forms and guises
and you have the cheek you accuse someone else or say that, that one is avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters

When answers are given, you single out a sentence
and without taking in account the train thought nor the flow of the discussion, build indictments with them.

Still throwing tantrums and talking jargons!

Still can't tell us what Peter meant by "that water..."

Still can't tell the "effect" of baptism with water...

Still can't say how Syncan, Ubenedictus or Italo twisted his words...

Still trying to lie that he didn't say "water baptism" is 'expired,' done out of "ignorance" and "sentiments."

Still...the evidence is there for all to see.

MuttleyLaff:
Shown above is the link for the original discussion between muttleylaff and esere826.
This is snapped up and seized by Ubenedictus.
He then vindictively blew it out of proportion, italo in tandem, too has unashamedly dissected it with ulterior intent and brought it up here, as seen following below









MuttleyLaff: 9:10am On Jun 19
Excuse my language
but you've probably guessed that I dont give a Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo about what type of water are in those passages,
as my stance on water baptism is no secret.
Do it, if you're compelled or feel the need to
but if you dont, please do not lose sleep over it. It isnt a do-or-die fanaticism

I just love it when people pull out the heresy card and play it grin grin grin
Something must have rattled and got them fidgety to do that

Nota bene, I am very particular and more concerned about John 3:5 and John 7:8
Do you agree both verses have nothing whatsoever to do with physical or literal water
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/5#34918196

MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jun 24
God bless you.
This exactly is the genesis of this whole matter.
Before it spilled into this thread, it started between Kei144 and I, here https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34519061
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090589

You guys are employing delay tactics, to distract with another straw-man
and so prevent the submission of the promised last post which will settle and put the final nail in this whole thing

If this were in Greek, I could have used the Internet to interpret...

Please who can understand and interpret jargons? please tell us...

Was he able to say how Ubenedictus twisted his words?

MuttleyLaff:

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

Ubenedictus:

you simply said, water baptism was [b]obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

MuttleyLaff:

Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

One mad dog:

These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism.
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

@scholars8200, osicom, plus can you help us judge who is lying here?

Let MuttleyLaff show us how Ubenedictus twisted his words and incorrectly made it up, please.

MuttleyLaff:
Alarm bell triggered...
What does the bolded mean and especially "still had to be baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord"?
What is invoking the Lord in "baptized have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord" about?
Is there and has there always been only one baptism in Christianity?

I was talking to someone with a different idea of the events than you have.

He believes that one is saved, with their sins washed away when they believe. He believes that Paul was baptised with water in Acts 22:16. But he claims that Paul already had his sins washed away before Acts22:16.

So I told him that to show that all those are one event. When you asked me how baptism with water is done, I told it is done by sprinkling, immersion or pouring, invoking the Holy Trinity (Matt28:19).

You expect me to answer you, but you still can't tell me the effect of baptism with water...and what Peter meant by "that water" in 1Pet3,20,21 which I'm asking for the third or fourth time.

That shows you to be a dishonest debater who is only interested in winning an argument even if it means avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters.

MuttleyLaff:
I earlier alluded to similar with the below repost

Water baptism is a shadow of the real deal,

It is less powerful than the real baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

God has no problem with both, as that's the level such presently are.

Am more concerned with people such as kei144 trying to twist John 3:5 has having to do with physical or literal water baptism, which obviously it doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-baptism/1#34854769

Ubenedictus:
you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

MuttleyLaff:
Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and icorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

Lol...the above is a desperate man trying to disown his own heresy after realizing how stupidd and grevious it actually is...but pride will not let him deny it outright, so he tries to blame Ubenedictus for it...Ubenedictus only repeated what you said!

MuttleyLaff:
In my next post, lets (i.e. italo, Syncan, you, Ubenedictus and I) put this matter to rest once and for all.
You and italo are going to love it. Syncan upon reading it, as usual might stay aloof
You better go put on a gum shield Ubenedictus, as the glove is coming off now.
I have countlessly said and gave examples,
that baptism is not an exclusive use meaning "water baptism" or only to be associated with "physical water baptism"
Forewarned is forearmed. I am taking no prisoners, so dont say there were no warnings

Another diversion from his heresy. Anyway, when you try to put it to rest, tell us:

1. What is the effect of baptism with water?
2. At what point did baptism with water become expired? (give evidence from scripture)
3. What did Peter mean by "that water" in 1Pet3:20,21?

Scholar8200:
Saved and remain with sins is like saying healed and remained with the sickness.

Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Ananias gave this exhortation to Paul but it did not mean Paul had not done them! He had been calling on the Name of the Lord with fasting (3 days)prior to this time and the Lord confirmed this! (and Romans 10:13 says For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.)
Besides, your perspective subtly changes that verse to read thus: "arise, and be baptized 'to' wash away your sins!" This is not true!

Each clause in that verse stands on its own and this view is confirmed by scripture. If you claim that wash away thy sins depends on baptism then I can logically say he cant call on the Lord except his sins are washed away , but the Lord Himself confirmed that Paul had been praying when Ananias was sent!

Just like it happened to Isaiah, Paul's encounter with Jesus was a time of both cleansing and commissioning:

Acts 26:14-18 confirms this. In fact, by the time Ananias was sent to Paul the Lord called him a chosen vessel (meaning he had been purged and was fit for the Master's use)

Acts 9:15

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

If Paul had been baptized with his sins washed away, invoking the name of the Lord, Jesus would not have told him to do them again through Ananias (as things he must do) Acts 22:10.

Baptism is done, invoking the name of the Lord and it washes away sins. They are one event, not separate.

It makes no sense to tell Paul "wash away your sins" alone.

And Paul had been chosen before he gave his life to Christ.

Acts 22:14. - Appointed for chosen, A.V.; to know for that thou shouldest know, A.V.; to see the Righteous One for see that Just One, A.V.; to hear a voice from for shouldest hear the voice of, A.V. Hath appointed thee; προεχειρίσατό σε, a word found in the New Testament only here and in Acts 26:16, and in Acts 3:20 (R.T.). In classical Greek it means mostly "to get anything ready beforehand;"

Jesus also chose Matthew when he was deep in his sins. Nothing strange.

So all your weak excuses come crumbling down.

Paul believed, but he still had to be baptized and have his sins washed away, invoking the Lord (one event - exactly as baptism has always been done in Christianity). When you try to separate them, you appear to mean that baptism is just to pour water on a person.

MuttleyLaff:
What I said there wasnt happenstance, you have chosen not to add the connection to the post I made that comment to.

I gave that remark when you posted and asked:

"Your point is that Baptism saves, but not water baptism.

What then is the use of water baptism?"

So you're saying 'baptism is only used sentimentally/ignorantly. It is expired.'

Same thing. Jesus commanded his apostles to do it. And they kept doing it.

But then, you're the "spirit" that is to come and teach new things contrary to truth himself.

MuttleyLaff:
No, am not. It is you, who is

On the contrary, no contradiction but so on point. Pity you deflected the Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism question

Very good question and that exactly ewhat am trying to get you find out by yourself

I already know that the flood water is a picture of baptism which now saves.

Scripture says "that water" is the picture of baptism. You contradict it saying baptism is the picture.

You still can't tell what Peter meant by "that water?"

MuttleyLaff:
Obsolete is not a stigma and if you're truthful and fair, I did say "God has no problem using it" and neither do I

You said baptism is effective. What is its effect?

MuttleyLaff:
You havent learned, that all these steam you've let off, are off point, they wont and dont make a difference

Yes, they don't. Just like your contradiction of Jesus and the apostles. Makes no difference to the truth.

MuttleyLaff:
because
#1 you dont know, and your ego wouldnt allow you to admit it
#2 you're intimidated of the truth and so playing hide and seek with the truth
#3 you're so OK in your cocooned comfort zone, you dont want to make any effort to step out or away from it
#4 you're afraid of heights, so climbing a mountain to see the views is a challenge you cant handle
#5 the list goes on

Are these the reasons you can't throw light on all those baptisms?

MuttleyLaff:
I earlier alluded to similar with the below repost

Water baptism is a shadow of the real deal,

It is less powerful than the real baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire.

Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.

God has no problem with both, as that's the level such presently are.

Am more concerned with people such as kei144 trying to twist John 3:5 has having to do with physical or literal water baptism, which obviously it doesn't.
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-baptism/1#34854769

Above is what you said about baptism.

Jesus commanded his apostles to baptize and they kept doing it...now you teach us that it is "sentimental" and "ignorant" and "expired"

MuttleyLaff:
Start with how exactly were those in 1 Peter 3:20-21 baptised?
Were they water baptised, as in immersed in physical water?

You're so obsessed with water, you still dont get it

You are dodging my question and asking yours.


1 Peter 3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.
Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.
21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you,
not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience.
It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You earlier said baptism is the picture, while the passage says that "that water is the picture of Baptism. A contradiction!

Which water is Peter referring to as "that water?"

MuttleyLaff:
Did you pause enough to think of the meaning & implication of "It is EFFECTIVE BECAUSE OF THE RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ"?
I asked because you below shrugged off where I earlier had said, water baptism was allowed by Jesus because He has yet died and resurrected
(i.e. He hasnt been glorified yet) with a post saying:
"What does it matter whether Jesus had died or not died? Almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before he died"

Yes almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before He died,
BUT according to John 16:12-13, Jesus still had more things to say which He left for later

John 16:12-13
¹²“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
¹³“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;
for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak;
and He will disclose to you what is to come

I didn't see the "it's effective because..." part. what's effective? The same baptism you've been telling us is obsolete? What's the effect?

And you're that "spirit of truth" that teaches us what is contrary to what Jesus and the apostles taught by the Holy Spirit. The same "spirit" that makes hundreds of thousands, millions of protestant groups teach contradictory doctrines. The same "spirit" that the Apostle told us would bring new teachings and we must flee from them.

Some teach that abortion is good...and say the "Spirit of truth" has come. Some even engage in sexual immorality and say they are using it to anoint the women...with the "Spirit of truth." Some say baptism is now obsolete/useless...and claim to be taught by the Spirit of truth to contradict Jesus who is truth himself. may God have mercy on all of you.

MuttleyLaff:
Thank you all. All answers are in,
so now, italo, Syncan and Ubenedictus, please throw light of the following, then compare and contrast them:
Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

Why should I throw light on those? You throw light on them and show us how it makes Jesus' baptism useless/obsolete.

MuttleyLaff:
Its not mine to give, besides it doesnt contradict/challenge, it testifes of Jesus

Jesus: 'baptize with water!'

You and your "holy spirit": 'baptizing with water is useless/obsolete.'

I don't want that your spirit. Thank you.

Syncan:
Did you even read that passage? Acts19:2

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as
heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
He asked them if the received and not filled with the Holy Spirit when they believed. So I ask you again, if they were born again when they believed, how come they didn't receive the Holy Spirit?

1. Compare scripture with scripture and you'll see that Paul was actually saying that they received the Holy Spirit when they believed...bla bla

2. You lack the Spirit of knowledge and understanding. You don't have the Holy Spirit. That's why you interpreted the verse like that...bla bla

3. I have already answered this question. Go back to what I said bla bla...

4. There is a difference between "receiving the Holy Spirit" and "having the spirit". When a person believes he/she bla bla rubbish...!

Choose one!

MuttleyLaff:
Let me explain the matter of
"how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do" for you.

All of us are given the same measure of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is like a big or huge garment, which we have to wear and fill in
The Holy Spirit is loose and looks like a baggy cloth on some, whereas for some, it is tight fit pn them because they're nourished enough to put on weight or body mass to fill into the clothe

Dont take it personal or take offence, just munch, devour, eat and feast on the word, and soon you'll fill in and fill up the Holy Ghost garment

Sorry, I don't want your "holy spirit" that makes you contradict/challenge the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.

MuttleyLaff:
Read it now, sebi its there in B&W, try reading it slowly but loudly
You obviously didnt read 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 and if you did, you didnt properly read it and so didnt take or couldnt gnaw the meat in it.

... and that only one baptism for Christians, is Jesus' baptism with water. Right? (i.e. as far as you are concerned, that is the case, isnt that so?)
One day, one day, we'll get there...

Are you tired already of your superlatives, have you ran out of them
You thought I didnt notice or read your "...the eighth wonder of the world..." sarky

^^^

Full of emptiness.

Barnabaseloka:
Final advice to you as a friend:
Ask God to give you the spirit of knowledge and understanding to see beyond the words used in the Scriptures This helps you to compare scripture with scripture to get balanced understanding of a matter. The way you interprete the scripture here shows your level of understanding. You are in dire need of the Holy Spirit and not human reasoning. I am still a student under the Holy Spirit, but with a more open heart than yours to understand and learn from others. Have a nice day!

Clap clap!

You said St. Paul was saved when he believed...

And the Bible tells us Ananias came to him days later...and had him baptized and washed his sins away Acts22:16.

So you're saying being saved doesn't wash away ones sins.

And it's amazing how you first want us to go by scripture alone, then when we bring scripture, you start contradicting scripture under so many guises (Remember you said Mary ceased being Jesus' mother when he started his ministry...and that Jesus time had come in John 2 - both contrary to scripture).
It's also amazing how you know that you have the Holy Spirit and I dont...or you have more of him than I do...and claiming you have an open heart and I dont...

Away with you and your 'spirit of knowledge and understanding' that makes you contradict the Bible.

Away with your heart that is only open to the heresy that was in it from the beginning.

MuttleyLaff:
I am sorry brother, if you sincerely and genuinely do not understand what Peter was saying there

Lol...what is difficult to understand in:

1Peter3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.
Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Which water is Peter referring to as "that water?"

MuttleyLaff:
Let me ask you a question though, this question applies also to Syncan and possibly Ubenedictus too
Dont worry, its not a trick question, its just a question, answers are for my benefit, are for estimating or gauging sake.
Whose baptism, do you prefer? The baptism of John or the baptism of Jesus Christ?

Please carefully read and try to understand 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 before answering. No hasty reply.

1 Corinthians 10:1-2
¹For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters,
that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
²They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

There is only one baptism for Christians, that of Jesus Christ.

MuttleyLaff:
You sure must have earlier read me, post that Jesus sure did instruct them albeit this instructed was before he died and resurrected, in other this was before Jesus was glorified

What does it matter whether Jesus had died or not died? Almost all Jesus' recorded teachings were done before he died.

Jesus instructed his apostles to baptize with water and they kept doing it.

But you who knows more than Jesus and his apostles have come to teach that it is not useful.

@scholar8200,

Me

At what point was Paul saved?

At what point were his sins washed away?

Cc scholar8200

You

At the point he met/encountered the Lord and surrendered to His Lordship! Note that unlike Cornelius,he was not asked to call for one to preach the Gospel to him. Why? He encountered He Who is the Gospel!

Seeing that Paul was only baptized and had his sins washed away Acts22:16, when Ananias got to him, are you saying a person can be saved, and remain with his previous sins?

Barnabaseloka:
Up till now, you are still hardened in your heart.
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house, and laying his hands on him said 'Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and, be FILLED with the Holy Spirit.
18. Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was BAPTIZED.

Ananias did not need preaching to Paul again about salvation b/c Jesus had already met him on his way to Damascus. In Vs. 11, Paul was already praying, which I believe was that of repentance and believing in Jesus. This was manifest when Ananias called him 'Brother Saul'. It clearly showed that Paul had repented and believed. The only work Ananias did there was to pray for Paul to see again and to baptize him. Note also that Paul received his sight, was first filled with the Holy Spirit before he became baptized (Vs.17).

In summary, Paul repented, believed in Jesus, was filled with the Holy Spirit and was baptized. Only those who have been saved will be filled with the Holy Spirit and be baptized with water or vice versa.

From what you're saying, St. Paul was saved - (repented, believed, was filled with the Holy Spirit) yet his sins were not washed away...

...Until he was baptized.

Acts22:16 "Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name."

Syncan:
Interesting @ bold. We know that, when a person is born again,the Holy Spirit takes up residence in that person’s life ( 1 Corinthians 6:19 ). If a person does not have the Holy Spirit, then he does not belong to Christ ( Romans 8:9 ). So why is it that these men in Ephesus did not have the Holy Spirit,
when you say they are born again already?

Prepare for the eight wonder of the world.

He may come and tell you how St. Paul didn't mean what he wrote in those verses...

Or how St. Paul later changed the teaching...

Barnabaseloka:
Go back and read what I have written on Paul and his conversion.

It is up to you to answer these simple questios...or be scared of them.

See how simply scholar8820 answered. If it's you, you'll write a meaningless essay and still not attempt the question.

Scholar8200:
At the point he met/encountered the Lord and surrendered to His Lordship! Note that unlike Cornelius,he was not asked to call for one to preach the Gospel to him. Why? He encountered He Who is the Gospel!

Why would Ananias call him brother Saul? (Knowing the terrorist he had been days ago)

Seeing that Paul only received the Holy Spirit, was baptized and had his sins washed away, when Ananias got to him, are you saying a person can be saved, yet not receive the Holy Spirit, and remain with his previous sins?

Cc Barnabaseloka

Barnabaseloka:
Note: One can be baptized with water before being filled with the Holy Spirit or vice versa. Nevertheless, one MUST be saved (born again) before any of the two above takes place.

In Acts 16:30-32, the jailer and his household heard the word of God and believed on the Lord Jesus. This showed that they were saved, i:e born again by the word of God they heard, before they were baptized with water in Vs.33.

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word
47. Can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptised who have received the HolySpirit just as we have?
48. And he commanded them to be baptised in the name of the Lord...
Here we can see that they did not say a word with their mouths. They only believed in their hearts and they became filled with the Holy Spirit, even before water baptism. We know that the Holy Spirit is meant for believers in Christ. Why would one who had not been saved from his sin, as a result of not being baptized with water, be filled with the Holy Spirit?

All i want you to understand is that one becomes born again (saved), which takes place spiritually as a result of (through) the word of God one hears and believes and the Holy Spirit. This is what John 3:5 means.

At what point was Paul saved?

At what point were his sins washed away?

Cc scholar8200

Scholar8200:
Here I stand:

And here you disagree:

Acts3:38Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

adsonstone:
The bold is your own wild assumption...like you always do.

I asked this question(s) because I know you well to be dishonest.
It's a simple question, answer, then we can move on...if you won't go in circles again.

I wonder why you have refused to answer.

Here's it again:
Do you agree that a banished person can
loose his citizenship when banished?

Yes or No?

Bros, you made a claim you are yet to prove...

Should we ignore that and engage in diversionary questions?

Prove that Ekaladerhan stopped being a Bini man...if you can't do that we'd have to take it that a Bini man was worshipped as God that fell from the sky by Yoruba people...

Even if you prove it, it'd mean that a Bini man whose citizenship was taken away from him became 'god who fell from heaven' to Yorubas.

But prove your claim!

Scholar8200:
Remission of sin is not without the Blood or faith therein: Hebrews 9:22
22 [In fact] under the Law almost everything is purified by means of blood, and without the shedding of blood there is neither release from sin and its guilt nor the remission of the due and merited punishment for sins.

Since it is so, your stance will be an accusation that Peter was contradicting a generally known Divine principle. But if we consider it from the perspective that Peter's sermon and other scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit, you will realise that they all clarify and complement each other.

Besides believing precedes baptism and is more important. Note the order:
Acts 16:30,31
Q: 30.... what is it necessary for me to do that I may be saved?

A:31 ... Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ [[d]give yourself up to Him, [e] take yourself out of your own keeping and entrust yourself into His keeping] and you will be saved,...



They that truly believe receive the Spirit by Whom they are born again

John 7:39

39 But He was speaking here of the Spirit, Whom those who believed (trusted, had faith) in Him were afterward to receive. For the [Holy] Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified (raised to honor).

So you're say Peter was correct when he said 'baptism is for remission of sins?'

Scholar8200:
Explain the highlighted citing relevant scriptures vis a vis Ephesians 1:13
13 In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed ... on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit.

Read Eph 1:13,14

Then Read Acts 2:38,39,41

The Ephesians were baptized.

Baptized is by the power of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is different from swimming, or bathing.

Scholar8200:
Sure! After they had believed with the heart; not before.

Believing is part of baptism.

The baptism we are talking about...is it the same one Peter said is for remission of sin in Acts2:38?

Do you also believe Barnabaseloka when he says Peter meant the opposite of what he wrote?

Or did Peter write the correct thing?

Scholar8200:
This is why Paul's primary focus was to preach the gospel and bring people to the point of believing hence he said

1 Corinth 1:17

17 For Christ sent me out not to baptize but [to evangelize by] preaching the glad tidings (the Gospel),

If their being baptised in water was salvation, then he was wasting time and leaving out the real issue!

But he knew that:

Ephesians 2:8
8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved ([c]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

But Paul baptized people!

Yes or no?

Scholar8200:
1 Corinthians 12:13 explains the real event that occurs in our inner man by the Power of the Holy Spirit that makes us born again; water baptism then follows as an outward testimony:

12 For by [means of the personal agency of] one [Holy] Spirit we were all, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, baptized [and]by baptism united together] into one body, and all made to drink of one [Holy] Spirit.

No it explains that we were baptized by the power of the Holy Spirit...did you think baptism was just done by pouring ordinary water without the Holy Spirit?

Nowhere does the verse say anything like "outward testimony."

MuttleyLaff:
Try and be objective instead of doing this the subjective way
This in the full and complete context, is what Peter said in that 1 Peter 3:21 you out of context referred to:
1 Peter 3:21
And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body,
but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Knowing what a picture is Ubenedictus, let's ask ourselves, is water baptism the "real deal"

No. Here is a fuller context:

1Peter3:20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Which water is a picture? - The flood.

Picture of what, what is the real deal? - Baptism.

What does baptism do now? - It now saves v21 (as Noah was saved through water v20)

MuttleyLaff:
Jesus DID NOT PERSONALLY water baptise anyone.
His disciples did the water baptism, not Jesus

But Jesus commanded them to baptize with water in Matt 28:19 (or can a man baptize another man with the Holy Spirit?)and didn't anywhere correct that teaching...and they obeyed. You know better than Jesus and his apostles.

sportsmaster:
i always warn all the time.Dont take things ouf of context..

If you don't have anything reasonable or relevant to say, please keep quiet and let someone who has something to say speak. Thank you for your cooperation.