₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Its either you have supergood eyes or you talk crap!

How did puny human you see that a universe that began billions of years ago has no purpose that might be billions of years in the future from now?

budaatum:
What about a car? Or just the spare parts?

Did you see that coming?

budaatum:
You are mixing up time and clock as if they are the same thing, which they are not. Its the argument posed when we ask if a tree makes a noise when it falls in the forest unobserved.

Clocks do not have a use for time Jack, clocks just measure the existence of time that naturally exist. Whether you tell time with a human clock, time passes regardless. The moon will go round the earth and the earth around the sun whether you measure its course with a clock or not.

You would not claim gravity does not exist just because you have not built an instrument to measure it!

shadeyinka:
Purpose itself is meaningful only in terms of the Beneficiary of a system.


But what you have just described is more like a destruction of a system. It doesn't mean that there is no purpose but that the purpose was truncated. Like the crankshaft of a car engine has a purpose BUT when the engine knocks, the purpose of the engine is truncated!

But this statement by Buda is very important

You can not have a system, which is "a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network complex whole" without beneficiary.
The statement alone is obviously oxymoronic.




Actually, when you isolate an individual system, it cannot know it's purpose for he is just a component of a much larger system. The Purpose of a system is always embedded in the beneficiary of such System.

If a human being will live to just die some years after, he has gained NOTHING as a person.
Eccl 2:11:
"And I looked upon all my works my hands made, and upon the labor I labored to do, and behold, all vanity and striving of the spirit, and no profit under the sun."

What do you think an isolated human truely gain from living on the earth for 100years and attaining a status of the president of a country?


You got me wrong sir!

The clock by itself is purposeless! But a clock in the hands of a human being has the purpose of displaying time according to the needs of the man!

In other words, a clock without human being is purposeless!

budaatum:
Essentially, yes. As soon as one is conceived the purpose begins or life ceases.

Note, life. Humans are the "beneficiary of a system", as Shadeyinka called it, and are a product of the strife for survival that began from a single cell. One fails to see this when one isolates the parts from the whole.

shadeyinka:
Let's look at things from biological point of view.
Are plants existing for a purpose?

Plants replenish the earth with oxygen!
Plants convert solar radiation to food for all other living beings!
Plants mop up the CO2 in the environment?

Looking at this, would you consider plants as having a purpose?

Of course, this question is easy to have an answer from you because you are outside the plant system!

But to the plant, can it understand by any means that it has a purpose apart from growing, swaying in the wind and dying? A plant doesn't even have the brainpower to understand their respiration, feeding , solar energy conversion etc

For the plant, can we say they are "born" with no purpose?
Unfortunately, isolating if the plants are isolated, they will come to your conclusion: that everything is meaningless!

Cc: budaatum:


L

budaatum:
Yes you are confused. And its not some disease or illness, but the normal state of human development while they find a purpose. Introduce yourself to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs?wprov=sfla1]Maslow[/url] and perhaps you'd get what I mean.

I am asking you to abandon your beliefs and become as a child with an open mind and wonder, instead of allowing beliefs to blind you. It is the ignorant and unwilling to learn, who believe the crap in their own heads.

IamPlato:
hmmm... you mean a purpose to be evil? i dont get

budaatum:
And you chose atheism, the art of disbelieving and seeking so as to know? You really are confused!

If you "like clarity and a sense of direction" and "Fine-tuning for the soul", then abandon the freedom of atheistically using the immense power of your mind to seek understanding and join a religious box and be directed within it, because you will not get far trying to eat your cake and have it!

Martian:
Thanks for the vote of confidence but I know nothing.

In my opinion, the only true nihilist is one who commits suicide. The rest is just mental masturbation and grammar.
e.g.

Moral Nihilism- all moral values are subjective and meaningless

Of course all moral values are subjective, and are dependent on the individual and society that espouse the morals. However, they are meaningful because their purpose is to promote social cohesion. Even thieves have a moral code for their “anti-social” cohesion.

Cosmic Nihilism – the universe does not provide any meaning or purpose to human life.

First, this erroneously anthropomorphizes the cosmos and excludes us. We are the cosmos. We are part of the cosmos. A hypothetical intelligent being in the Proxima solar system could look up and we’ll be part of the cosmos that “owes him a purpose”. Second, there very well could be a purpose to the universe but our knowledge base will forever preclude our comprehension of what that purpose is. However, judging by the scarce presence of life in our solar system, the fact that the Sun represents over 99.8% of the mass of our solar system, the daily struggle for life to survive on this planet, and the narrow band of the planet that life can exist, I think life is just one of the ubiquitous chemical processes in the universe. Life as we know is a complex chemical event of extremely short duration compared to the chemical event that we call the sun, which has been going on for 4.6 billion years.
Does the sun have a purpose? Does life have a purpose? I don’t know, but we give life purpose and that is good enough.

Epistemological Nihilism- knowledge does not exist or it is impossible for humans to attain.
Knowledge exists; however, complete knowledge of nature(universe) might be impossible due to our physiology. E.g. The earth does not “hang on nothing” like some believe due to our inability to perceive “fields”. However, the knowledge base we call Astrophysics teaches and has shown that the earth moves upon the “surface” of the gravitational field and other fields. But “gravity” itself or the nature of “fields” are not well known and may never be fully known due to the limits of our physiology. Biologists say that a Mantis Shrimp can see parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that is invisible to us. Imagine if they could talk to us, maybe they know the nature of “fields”.

Existential Nihilism- life has no inherent meaning whatsoever, and that humanity in an individual and collective sense has no purpose

If you reject all values, then make your own within the confines of society (while working to improve it) or go live in the woods. Is life inherently meaningless? I don’t know but life gives meaning to itself because consciousness and volition are two of the emergent properties of the chemical process we call life.

shadeyinka:
You have spoken some big English and came to a conclusion that a paradox results and you said:

The paradox can be simply put as- Nihilism says that life has no meaning, if that is true, then there is no objective truth and therefore, nihilism itself has no meaning.

But I still wonder how you still chose a subset of this Nihilism by saying:




I think it's like a clock at work: it looks at itself doing the same thing day in day out and conclude, there is no meaning to personal existence.

Honestly, it looks like the clock is speaking the truth as it has no idea inherent purpose other than gears moving, some slow some fast and some oscillating.

But the truth actually is that outside human beings, the clock has no purposes. The purpose of the clock is only defined within the purpose of the owner!

But what if the clock has concluded with finality that it is self existing and humans don't exist!? It doesn't make it purposeless for a clocks purpose it to show intervals or values of time.

budaatum:
Born empty, is not the same as "with no purpose" and it is very not true that one is born empty or with no purpose, unless you wish to disregard the umbilical cord!

As soon as one is born, one gasps for air for a purpose, which is to breath so as to live. Would you suggest that is not purpose enough?

Soon after, you yell out, albeit not knowing why, but as soon as a tit is stuck in your mouth, you suck with purpose to fill your belly to nourish yourself. Or is that not purpose enough?

Yes indeed one may "choose to stay that way" and not take breath or tit, IamPlato, but the proper phrase to describe those who "make that choice" - though none ever do but have it fostered on them - are stillborns or those that die soon after birth.

Most of us though, have purposefully chosen to live and give meaning to our existence, which is what Jackbizzle is seeking to do here by defining himself so as to better understand his purpose. And as he grows, so will his box until he breaks the sides down and becomes a free person.

budaatum:
Okay, I've read it. I think you feel the need to define yourself, as in, find a neat little box you can fit yourself in so you can say you are this or you are that. And I ask, why? Why would you feel the need to define yourself by narrow meaning words? Do you like living in a box, Jackbizzle? Must you imprison yourself?

Perhaps the followings might help you get what I mean:

https://www.nairaland.com/5091184/get-thread-now#76880915

https://www.nairaland.com/5256122/secular-researchers-agree-worldviews-control/1#79571767

https://www.nairaland.com/5231374/godhumans-ai/1#79513534


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM8JhvfoqdA

IamPlato:
Lol...

It's funny because many people will basically look at me and look away, some people will say you are too small for this, some people will think I am just an attention seeker.

I know I am a nobody, I no get money...




I no sabi fight oh, I no sabi shoot gun but I can help us win this war without touching a gun...


The answer is simple but needs togetherness and trust...


My Instagram is @official_directorwalker

If I get 10k followers I swear I will lead you to the answer, to the way out...



I have a future and a dream to reach but I will forsake it and lead.



But if you think I am an attention seeker Or a joker then kindly ignore this post and move on with your life while I do same...



It's the best I can do

IamPlato:
I Will Go With Cosmic Nihilism.
That Epistlmological nihilism doesnt make sense to me


every man is born empty with no purpose or meaning and you can choose to stay that way till you become dust again.


only the man himself can give his life a meaning or purpose in this reality.

And Yes The Result We Get Today Are all A Construct Of Our Own Actions

budaatum:
I am very sorry that I stopped right there. I was an atheist from birth and my life had meaning so I can't say I shared your opinion that atheists arrive at the conclussion you arrived at!

As a humanist alone, your life ought to have plenty of meaning unless you have not got a clue what humanism is about. I mean, do you not know humanism means "Love humans", and what greater purpose can a human being have than the expression of love for their fellow human being so you get up daily with the sole purpose of diminishing the sufferings of your fellow humans?

Now, let me patiently go and read the rest of what you wrote to find out if you were only an atheist to the Bible, as in one who rightfully disbelieved it, but unfortunately failed to seek understanding if what is written therein.

FvckMynd44:
12 Monkeys

8.5/10


Time travel done right. The present world has already been destroyed. The aim of traveling to the past was not to alter it but to create a new future.

Brad Pitt finish work as Kolomental inside

There are glaring plotholes but it doesnt take away from the beauty of the film

MJBOLT:

she can go on business lunch but cannot buy her own wig and footwear
No be lie,them dey useless.

iamoyindamola:
This one wan start another baseless argument
Moya look away