₦airaland Forum

AlfaSeltzer:
Same brand that Abraham was smoking

The one Moses was smoking at the burning bush is more potent.

Try that.

frank317:
Lol... What is actually Gods role in our life. What kind of a loving father is he?

You Christians can't just make up ur mind can u? U just don't want to accept the reality on ground. Forcing ur imaginery god to exist and claiming he is loving and provider and all blah blah blah, but then you can open ur mouth and tell a worshiper of this loving God the he is responsible for his well being.

I can see Christians living in denial here. Some are askin him to talk to God and some are saying he is lying.

Ya all are just a delusioned and funny people. This God must be useless.

The funny things is that ur mother cannot ever come back to life. Yet Christians feel u must suffer more before your loving God comes to ur rescue.

Honestly the only thing I can tell u op is that you are just wasting ur time worshiping an imaginary being.

You're barking up the wrong tree son.

Daseed4:
Thank you. Can you see these people saying this is a fictional writeup? I didnt even mention up to half of my travails in the post. I did my best to be holy and also see Jesus as my ritheousness, but still, results keep eluding me.

I hope things work out for you soon. Pay no attention to negative people.

I feel for you OP, I truly do.

I was going to give you a wise quip from the bible about taking no heed for tomorrow and the sparrows and all that jazz (Mathew 6:34).

However I sense you are deeply troubled. All I'll advice is for you to take a practical approach. Try and acquire more skills so you can get a better job.

You're responsible for your own well being.

Be strong.

Did she wear her wedding dress there?

Trust your instincts. Always!

Flytefalls:
I couldn't be as cold as they are being towards my mother, it's unnatural.

Again, you've put things in proper perspective.

Christ (as recorded in the bible) preached love, not shunning. He was called a wine bibber and was accused of wining and dining with sinners. Does anyone know how devastating shunning is? Your family and friends obliged not to associate with you? And because of what exactly?

Flytefalls:
Found it! It was the first to appear hahahahahahaha. I don't think my search included 'pdf' yesterday, but I'm still ashamed of myself for not having tried . Thank you!

You're quite welcome.

BIBLESPEAKS:
Well, what does the Watchtower Society call those people in the Bible who received messages directly from God? They, too, are described as being prophets, or, more clearly, as being inspired prophets.

Does the Watchtower Society claim to be an inspired prophet, receiving information directly (and therefore perfectly) from God?

The Watchtower has said:

"We have not the gift of prophecy." - January 1883, page 425.

"Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." - December 15, 1896, page 306.

"The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct . . .

This is precisely the problem. You can admit all this, yet
you claim "truth". Truth doesn't change. You cannot claim to be Gods organization on earth and keep changing what God wants. According to the bible, God doesn't change. There's nothing like the light getting clearer when it comes to the truth, plus God is said to be omniscient, yet you make God look confused when you keep changing your doctrines.

Is this not enough to discredit the so called faithful and discrete slave?

Rilwayne001:
What do you mean by "torched"?

He never set her on fire.

Lol

dolphinheart:
Why do you keep side stepping my questions?

Listen, you seem like a nice person. I understand why you would go to great lengths to defend your position. I said higher education is discouraged. You opposed that statement only to unwittingly support it.

I'm not interested in a debate on this matter. When I read the OP, her words struck a chord in me because I could relate and that's why I responded to her.

Do have a nice day Sir.

Flytefalls:
I'll do that, didn't have any luck yesterday but I think I was searching for the other one

The other one is quite difficult to get. This one is easier.

Flytefalls:
But they are so self righteous . Every time they catch wind of me perhaps going to church or celebrating Christmas, they feel it wise to condescendingly offer me their two (non)cents and then end it with 'I would love to see you in paradise'. Shut uuuuuup!!!

They are incredibly defensive, but we all are I suppose. But they are so well armed. I'm building my own armor, I can make unwanted quips as well as the next well-meaning JW.

You know what, I'm going to request the pdfs from you guys please . I'll follow both of you now!

We should share notes one day.

Anyway I've been using my phone to surf as the internet in my office has been down for a while.

When it gets back up, I'll either mail or upload the files for you. I think I can send you a link for the Ray Franz book. Captives of a Concept is a bit more tricky to obtain but I have it on my computer.


Do a Google search for "Crisis of conscience PDF". Its the first link that pops up.

I'll see how I can get the other one to you.

Flytefalls:
I feel like I'm gearing up for a confrontation with certain family members. I don't want to be ill-equipped, so the websites and book recommendations are going to be my main focus for the next few weeks.

This shouldn't have to be. This is not of God.

Permit me to wish you luck once again.

Meanwhile I would avoid trying to confront them. Don't go trying to prove they are in a cult or they are wrong.

Get your hands on those two books. I can send you the PDFs if you like. Someone else has also offered.

People go on the defensive when you confront them and in this case, they are trained to view confrontation as proof that they are on the right path. The best you can do is update yourself and wait for the opportune time which will come in form of a discussion.

You'll enjoy reading Captives of a Concept.

dolphinheart:
As a Christian , you seek first the kingdom of God and all other things will be added to you.
As a Christian , you are being commanded to provide for ur families spiritual, financial and mental development needs.

Tell me, how do you combine these in these present world.
What did jesus say about these world in relation to his followers?

So getting a higher education is a hindrance right?

You keep making my point.

Flytefalls:
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Amen my brother! I have no beef with atheism, I totally respect your pov.

That despicable cult have half my family trapped inside and simultaneously believing that they are free. What a joke. The last meeting I went to, the one less than a year ago when my BS tolerance meter exploded, was when they had announced a new understanding where women now had to wear veils if sitting in a study with a male baptised publisher. I don't even know if that was the gist of it, I was shocked. You know when your brain processes information so thoroughly your entire body halts its processes to allow it to configure the information entering via your ears, well I was truly stunned. Yet, more astonishing were the fumbled attempts of the elder on the platform who tried hard to normalise this information to a crowd of frowning brothers and sisters. They all had to accept this new understanding without query but you could see it on their faces, the confusion, doubt, absurdity.

Oh the experiences. There is nothing like a brother on the stage talking about how he put his ministry first and his noble prize ceremony/lung cancer operation/opportunity to save an old lady from being mugged, second. People are just people, they need to stop with the delusional superiority complex. They are no better than other men.

Their apocalyptic outlook on life serves them well when they need it to. The end days are coming, don't save for tomorrow, give us your money to help the organisation grow. God loves a cheerful giver, doesn't he *fake smile*. Oh but of course, they are not like the other religions that ask for money, because they don't pass a collection plate or beg for money. So why is that dude on the platform slowly talking us through how to give gift aid if you pay taxes in the UK? Is this part of the bible study? If a cure for cancer came tomorrow, they will be first in line to use it, despite them never donating to cancer research due to their own hypocritical mangled bible understandings. They don't vote, but to fill the political void they'll have on offer commentary on trivial matters such as the new building procured by Bethel, or length of sister xyz's dress at the convention

By now, I'm sure you can tell I'm not a fan of that religion. I always make a point of saying hello to a person I know has been disfellowshipped because I always remember how lonely my mum sometimes feels. The people aren't all bad, some are my closest friends, but they don't have a choice regarding how they must act. That's to be pitied. Sometimes I feel it is we from the outside who must fight for them. If there is hope, it lies with the Proles, sort of thing

*rant over for now*

Your rant was better than mine.

But anyway yeah, I agree with you. The people aren't bad, the watch tower society tbough are EVIL!

The price of freedom is ostracism and that's worse when you've been born into the cult and your whole life revolves or has been made to revolve the cult.

dolphinheart:
Haba! Why take up part of what they say, expand it and leave the rest . Are you saying the organization say you must not get higher education ?
You want to cook rice and beans and you have put rice on the fire first before putting beans.

Jehovahs witnesses try their best to make u understand that their is a place for material things, spiritual things should come first, cus its the only thing that can give you evalasting life, a life where you can compare its existence with all the wealth you can ever make in this world.
They also encourage you to be hard working to be able to provide for urself and ur family.
As a servant of God, you are expected to make present an possible future life determining decisions. Questions like , what are my goals in life, how do I plan to achieve them, does my goals help me survive beyond this present system of things or just helps me to live this present system comfortably. Is higher education a confirmed and only way to achieve those goals.

All over the world , people who train themselves in handwork and acquire skills and who are hard working tend to get work and can feed themselves .they have time for themselves, family and spiritual growth cus they own their work and can arrange it to fit their other goals . The bible tells us about being good with the work of ur hands . People and companies always need people who have this skills so the posibility of earning an income to take care of ur vital needs of food, clothing and shelter can be more achieved with this skills.
Compare that to higher education , in nigeria we all know how the universities keep chunning out graduates at an increasing rate with no jobs for them to do . We keep seeing the resultant effect of those who lost there jobs and dnt have the skills apart from their certificate to start something by themselves. We keep seeing the longhours higher educated ones are being subjected to at work in other to meet targets, they dnt have time for family, children and spiritual things except to remember God on sunday. And if ur boss say u should come on sunday , then no spiritual activity that week. We keep seeing how the system keep demanding more education for ur to meet up to its rat race. U get bsc , they will demand masters, u get masters, the system will demand phd . If you dnt get it, others who have less family and spiritual goals will and will get ahead of you and ull probably get laid off.
We keep seeing how getting higher education keep getting more and more expensive and puts stress on people who are trying to get it for their wards.

If you feel that higher education is vital cus it makes it more possible to acquire wealth, an its vital to learning Gods word, then I leave you to it . But to some, acquisition of wealth is not there primary goal .

So if a witness say he or she has found way to Increase his service to God by finding an alternative method to taking care of himself and family apart from higher education, we are happy. And if a witness who has higher education say he has found a way to use his education to increase his service to jehovah , we are also happy.

Jehovahs witnesses follow bible examples. Did jesus or any of his disciples do politics or participate in political process?
Is the present political system part of Gods arrangement?
What does the bible say about mans ability to govern himself.?
Under who's power did the bible say the present system of things come under?.
What does jesus say about how you treat ur enemy?
What does the bible say about killings others?
What does the bible say about carrying weapons?
What does the bible say about treating anyone who sins deliberately, delibrately does things that goes against congregational teachings and biblical directives?.

It is not explicitly forbidden, it is discouraged.

As you said up there unwittingly buttressing my point, spiritual is placed over the material. You further agreed that this world is not yours. My point stands.

Flytefalls:
My mum basically got us outta there before I could count properly . I promised my dying grandmother I'd give it a try, even though she shunned me and my brother most of my life. Curiosity took me there. Results were great initially, but flatlined.

'Love bombing'. So apt. They make love to ones need for inclusion and security. The religion can bring out the best in people, but often the walls start to close in and oh crap there is no escape route that ends well.

The watchtower organization is a cult. A strong one.

I'm an atheist, but I used to respect Jehovah's witnesses. I thought they were sincere and all that. I became close to one and that was when I decided to learn about them. I even attended some meetings. I was shocked.

If someone can come and share "experiences" and state in front of thousands that he gave up higher education to serve Jehovah because higher education is a trap from the devil that will derail and prevent him from doing Jehovah's work, there is something wrong. The young man was applauded.

Some lady came out to say that she left her job as it was a distraction. She learnt a trade instead. Is the trade not a job? She was applauded as well.

Of course their kingdom is not of this world, so they don't involve themselves in politics, don't go to war, etc. Other people are dying to make sure they are safe and they say they are not interested.

Anyways, the person I got close to, the family of the person shunned the person, even without the person being disfellowshipped. I think I should stop here. I'm getting worked up.

I'm glad you aren't in that cult and for what its worth, I can relate to your having issues when they found out you had a catholic boyfriend. Its in the secret manual.

JuanDeDios:
Even Crisis of Conscience is available online, I think. I have a digital copy - can't recall how I got it, though. I can email it to Flytefalls if she wants.

Lol.

I've got a PDF of the books I recommended as well as a few others I didn't.

However she didn't ask, she said she'd order and so I didn't offer. I didn't want to presume because some people are strict about certain things (piracy for instance).

The reason I mentioned the Shepherd Flock of God book was because its a secret book. There is no other way to get it if you aren't an elder except the internet.

OP, feel free to request PDFs of the books if you don't mind. The person I quoted is willing to mail them to you.

Flytefalls:
Luck? How worldly . I swear, I have two ways of speaking when conversing with witnesses and with others. That just made me laugh. You say 'luck' and they will look away like you've sworn. Sigh.

I have actually skimmed through that manual. Last year, before I stopped studying with them. Worth another look!

So tell me cos I'm curious.

How did you manage to escape their clutches, what with the love bombing and all.

Flytefalls:
That would be a shame, but I respect the reluctance. I have an aunt who wasn't technically disfellowshipped (she was never baptised), but back then it was treated as such. Then they revised the rules and JW's (family/friends) started contacting her or said hello to her in passing, but she made a point of telling them she'd be disfellowshipped just to see how they winced and shrivelled away from her like she was diseased. 'Apostates' (by JW standards) should walk and hold their heads just as high. My mother's morale is at an all time low, so I'm clutching at straws trying to lift her head up.

I will be ordering these books to read! Thank you!

You're welcome. I hope they help.

If a former governing body can leave, if elders can leave, then anyone can. Their insights will be valuable.

I have a 3rd recommendation, and this one can be found online. Look for Shepherd the Flock of God, which is the secret manual that only elders are allowed to see. Its the manual for maintaining witnesses.

Good luck.

Flytefalls:
Yeah, I have seen a few forums. I do read them intently but thought to search around these parts also.

Seeing as they are already shunned and are considered apostates, they may be reluctant to reveal themselves.

Have you read Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron?

Also try and get your hands on Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz who was a former governing body member.

Op

Go online. There are several forums that cater for your need. Lots of people need support and therapy for being disfellowshipped.

Perhaps you can find the information you want and then you can help yourself or/and your mom.

Perhaps some are his cars, but I doubt that they all are.

B4113y:
I don't understand how people can believe in God and I have one simple reason over all my other reasons why he doesn't exist. People say God's love is unconditional, he even killed his son (who was really himself) for us to all be forgiven? But isn't that in itself a horrendous and horrible act? If God loved us so much, why does he punish us rather than lead us down the right road? Why do hundreds of people die everyday by things they cant even control like starvation, thirst, slavery abuse and everything else on the list? Why are little children who haven't even had a chance to be born into the world and discover God born into poverty or genocide? Like what the hell? You love us so much yet you decide since Eve ate a damn fruit, we all suffer.

Bible thumpers will have you believe that the problem of evil was caused by mans abuse of free will.

God planned for us to be perfect and to live forever but by misusing freewill, we just fücked up the whole plan.

What no one says is that after creation, the omnipotent God pronounced his work good. Where then did it go wrong?

joywendy:
congrats

Nice work!

I have improved a bit you know , i would like us to play a game later....when I get rid of this silly network finally..

Thanks for the link as well, i appreciate

Anytime.

Its called a wet t-shirt contest.

First page, no one knows this.

joywendy,

you might want to go through this article

http://danheisman.home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Articles/evaluation_of_material_imbalance.htm#2012-Update

fifa456n:
I found the light, Jesus is Lord. Praise God for he has cleansed my sins. I am on my knees for jesus, Pleasing him in any way that i can. I love him so much and i am glad that he is inside me, it feels amazing. The best decision I've ever made was to let Jesus come inside me.

You're on your knees? Pleasing him in any way you can? You love him and let him come inside you? It feels amazing?

Well damn!

I got the bronze medal in an online blitz competition on chess.com yesterday.

Im wyzoe. I actually beat the guy who won when we played in the tournament. Ill keep trying for the gold.

joywendy,

you might want to go through this article

http://danheisman.home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Articles/evaluation_of_material_imbalance.htm#2012-Update