₦airaland Forum

Talking about trading,
Looking at the bitc0in chart, someone who held bitc0in from June is already 2x up. Now how many people here who say they're day trading have been able to double their portfolio over the past 2-3 months?

I still believe one of the easiest ways to make money in this market is the stress-free one... Now defi makes that even sweeter.

Ibime:
I no even know again oh. Jedisco how far for Alts?

This is not their time.... It was obvious a while ago. Alyts don't do as well when bitc0in battles resistance.... Even if bitc0in breaks ATH, it may take another 2-3 months for bitc0in profits to cycle into alyts.... The good thing is when they rally, they could easily put in a 3x from current valuations...

Also, bitc0in dominance foretold the story a while back

BuisnessThrills:
No update on this forum yet , whosoever post on this group we are waiting , I learn from this group @jedisco and the rest

Haven't spoken much as most of the things I outlined are still in play.....
When trading the bigger picture, you don't need to monitor the daily market moves...

Look at it this way.... If bitc0in goes on to make another high, in the next 6 months, almost every alyt would triple their current valuation.... You'd then be wondering why you were bothered about buying at one price or another....

Personally, I'm hoping on one more dip before ATH so I can fill my bags.... After that, I'd let the market be for a while

mosdii:
Nigerian Girls Are Useless...All Of Them

I hope you know that it's not possible for Nigerian girls to be useless and Nigerian men not to be equally useless.
Abusing women of your kind is not the definition of red pill. If you strive to be at the top, these things you seek will come to you.
The low IQ of some of you folks is appalling

Youngzedd:
The loan interest rate is high and that discourage lots of people.

Some banks giving up to 28% per annum with lots of requirements.

GTBank is giving out credit facility @ 18% per annum for 6 months term, details >> https://www.gtbank.com/business-banking/sme-banking/loans-advances/quickcredit-for-small-business

1. High rate (18% per annum).
2. Short tenure (6 months).


I see no reason why it should be more than 10% if truly the CBN want to change the narrative or boost SMEs.

The effective rate on GTB is less...abt 10% apr in actual terms... Also, the way it's structured, relatively more of the interest is paid at the initial months hence after a while, it might make sense to hold it for the full term.

6 months cap is for the first tenure... Subsequently, it's upto a year.

Rates could be better, but you also have to look at CBN borrowing rates (i.e TB's) which is usually a benchmark.... Banks would lend less than TB rates

NL1960:
Great insights. What you just described here happened exactly to an India who was working in a UK branch of a company that a friend works. He was recruited in India to work in the UK branch. He thought he was being credit worthy by not 'borrowing'.

Not an unusual scenario with folks who cross the divide. It takes years to see that different nations operate differently.. Most business opportunities that'd bring good money in Nigeria wouldn't in other climes as they're already structured or industralised (e.g agro storage)... Reverse is also the case

In a developed nation, being unable to leverage the opportunities the society provides means you might just end up working for others or to pay tax

Another alert goes off.... Hehe...
These micros are good to buy at their lows

NgHotGirls:
The news

What news

Bought KEEP a while back... Logged in and saw it's pumped... What's causing the pump

Bitc0in goes turbo.... continues to surprise

Seems very few are still holding Bitc0in positions....

Best we can hope for is a pullback before it exits this range.... Cos things could move quickly afterwards....

I'm still holding out for one more dip which should be my semi-final loading opportunity of this bullrun... Want to grab some tokens and let the market be till December/Jan

Bnb and bake are pumping...... Could cake be lagging?

Are people surprised that alyts are behaving this way?


Alyts don't do well at resistance moreso a resistance where folks are expecting betece to dump.... It was quite clear alyts will struggle with betece above 55k...

All we should hope for is tga betece gives alyts a week or two yo recover before a breakout... Cos once betece breaksout, they'd bleed more

emmanuelewumi:
Banks are giving SMEs loans, provided you a have an active accounts and all payments are made to the bank. I can say that about First Bank, UBA, Access Bank, those are the one I have had businesses relationship with in the past

Most SMEs don't have an audited financial report, the only way banks can assess the viability of the business is through inflow and outflow of cash into the banks, unfortunately most SMEs prefer to keep collect cash or keep cash at home.

An old banker told me something many years ago, make sure all payments go to the bank. You can withdraw immediately after making the deposit, but the cash flow is telling the bank something.

If business owners understand the language of finance, funding won't be a problem to their businesses.


Yours truly got 2 credit facilities last week, I turned down the second one from a finance house because of an interest rate of 24%, my stockbroker will be granting another one before Friday at an interest of less than 20%

Yeah, I agree banks are now availing such funds more easily but most SMEs dont know or are scared or banks... They would say 'I no want bank wahala'. Most SMEs dont even know what an auditor is, don't have a business account and largely deal in cash to their detriment. What banks now do for some SMEs like schools is that they look at the cash flow into the account and use that as a guide to quickly guage what can be borrowed with little overhead collateral.

One thing that still needs working on are borrowing rates. Ideally, these should be less than 10%. CBN can start by cutting down TB rates to somewhere below 5% and having an SME rate cap

As with most things, people who really need them do not know how to access them hence why the rich get richer and the poor poorer... Most rich folks will say that once you get to a particular threshold of wealth, doubling or tripling that is much easier largely cos the system favours them and they also know how to benefit...

Most SMEs while run by tenacious folks do not grasp certain aspects... Most do not understand the economics of scale. Most wouldn't give up even a small percentage of their business in return for significant funding that'd boost the business, most still believe in the good old ways... But I give it up to them... They've survived where many thought they wouldn't

Talking about credit, I'd give an example of two Nigerians who arrive a Western nation.

Mr A comes in and gets a good job. He has heard alot about negatives of 'credit' and only wants to pay for what he can afford which to him means paying for everything in cash.. He does not get a credit card as he wants to avoid temptation. Of course he does that and is happy he is prudent. 10 years down the line, Mr A saves up, wants to buy a house, he approaches the bank asking for hundreds of thousands as mortgage... Of course he wouldn't be given or get a smaller sum at a high rate.

Mr B gets same job but on the other hand accepts a credit card from his bank when given. Spends from it and pays back fully when due. He buys item's weighing these sensibly against his earnings e.g a phone, car on credit and pays monthly even though he may pay higher eventually and can afford those items in cash. He is able to build up a good bank balance quicker while living a comfortable life. He approaches his bank yo aid with a mortgage, they look at his credit history and his balance and lend him an appropriate sum at a sensible rate as he has a good record. Few years down the line, he is able to raise some bulk sum again, places his initial house on rent and gets another mortgage. Now, his bank can lend him bigger sums at much lower rates (1.5%). In a few years, he has 2-3 houses on his name... Tenants in his rented houses are practically paying off his mortgage. He is able to build a good standing for his kids

Meanwhile, Mr A has just settled into his first home cos it took him years to understand how the system works....

I have seen this play out a number of times...

My summary is all about leveraging what the society gives and doing that within ones ability... Credit can be a double edged sword... It can make and also mar

emmanuelewumi:
Businesses are still getting credits, check the annual reports of the banks. They only need to democratise the credit.

A bank will prefer to give N1 billion credit to a business with track records of success in the business than to give N10 million to 100 small businesses.

It is almost impossible for a start up or business without a track record to get credit, the first source of capital for a small or start up business are personal savings, grants, loans from friends, patents, family members or sale of personal assets like cars, land, shares, gold and other valuables.

Read about how Fola Adeola, Jim Ovia, Erastus Akingbola, Peterside Atedo, raised N20 million in 1989 when they got licenses to establish GTB, Zenith, Intercontinental, Stanbic.


Instead of debts, start ups should consider equity from venture capitalists who are skilled in identifying growth potentials of new businesses


You don't start a business with a loan, you can use a bank loan to expand a business after it must have operated for about 3 years and above

With the ldr increase, I agree that banks have been forced to grant SMEs more loans. Many now have a dedicated page on their website with clear terms and a good number actively advertise these online. That said, there is still alot of work yet to be done.

Yes, banks would rather give bulk sums to the few rich individuals (who are more likely to default as little can be done to them), than give an equivalent sum to a multitude of SMEs. As we know, SMEs are the building rock of any society. 1 million given to 1000 SMEs is most times more beneficial than 1B given to a large coy. This is where the CBN has to step in and enforce safeguards. 1 billion extra in Otedolas pocket hardly helps the economy. Moreso, such big voys can easily access credit through various means.

I'm not asking banks to freely give loans to start-ups (which will mostly fail) but they can identify SMEs with good history and potential to support. The data from the recent ldr increase shows that they know how to do this- they just have to be pushed.

I wouldn't compare the financially knowledgeable banking folks to our SMEs.

I will give an example of a typical Nigerian SME.. take Mr A who owns a poultry and has built it slowly for years and now grows 1000 birds at a time. He might have a capacity to grow 1500 during Christmas which there's market for but is limited by funds. Such a person should be able to go to his bank and ask for 1 mil to support his business. I expect the bank to be able to look up his credit history (if we have one), his business account flow, pay his poultry a visit and decide if its sensible to give such a sum. Of course the bank has to check risk but it'd be impractical to ask people like that to provide huge collaterals as can be the case with most banks. There should be a way of identifying dependable SMEs who need little leverage to build on and our banks are good at that. Very many times, such people pay such loans early... After about two times of borrowing 1m for such a venture, he could progress to borrow 1.5 m on the back of his credit history, further expand his profitability.. everyone wins....

Mostly, such SMEs are left at the mercy of loan sharks who demand an arm and a leg in interest. What then is the use of banks to such folks? Funny enough, these loan sharks make huge profits by ripping off the poor.


Our SMEs in Nigeria are the little restaurants, farms, shops e.t.c. most of what they need are little sums to improve their environment to attract customers, buy machines e.t.c and mostimes they need this for short periods. I will not expect them to depend on venture capitalists to access credit. Even in the West, SMEs are buoyed by the Government.

Nigerians are generally credit averse.... Most SMEs are very scared of bank loans (and are unlikely to default) and very few know the workings thereof....

Finally, this reminds me of the argument made when ATM machines were being introduced.
Many said they'd not work in Nigeria...that people will steal them, that the money dospensed will not be counted properly e.t.c...

Today, ATM are all around the nation and we've even moved to mobile POS... Who'd have thought?

Goes to say that with the right policies and framework, things can and do work in Nigeria just as in other nations

Alot of poor nations have failed to utilize the monetary system adequately. Maybe cos it was mainly developed by the West and all they had to do was copy without knowing what does what.

The essence of a Central bank is not just to print money and that of commercial banks are not just meant to collect that money and warehouse it in the central bank. Money is meant to flow around in a community.... That way wealth is multiplied... This holds true for all advanced nations. The central bank outlines macro policies while commercial banks institute them

While the argument has been made that Nigerians are not honest and would default on loans, the data says something different.

Following the introduction of 60% ldr for banks and subsequent increase to 65%, banks were forced to lend out more which resulted in a 32% increase in monies lent YOY. Within that same period, the amount of non performing loans dropped... That says something.

It's either the banks already had a way of identifying good borrowers a d had been dragging feet or the new lending went to a different group. I think iys a mixture of both. Before that policy change, it was uncommon for banks to advertise loans or SME facilities... That means likely those they were borrowing to were the high and mighty individuals who are very much likely to default as they know there'd be little or no repercussions. With the new rule, they had to start identifying the everyday folks/SME to afford reasonable facilities who actually pay as the data shows.

Now if the CBN could build on that, they can demand that a portion of those loans could go to housing while also building a framework that'd enable firms to build houses and mortgage it out to certain folks say civil servants who would then access these facilities and pay back over a longterm. Of course, the house could always be repossessed if there was a continuous default

emmanuelewumi:
Reason why it is good to build our credit ratings, try and apply for loans, let them turn down your loan requests.

Ask why your requests were declined, you will get valuables financial lessons from such discussions.

Credit is a 2 edged sword it can make or mar one, that is why it requires disciplined to succeed with loans.

Business and Investment minded middle class who understand the language of finance are actually getting loans and credits to harness opportunities as they arise

In my case, the loans were automatically approved.
But then, my point say there should be a verifiable way of sharing such data across industries and rewarding good borrowers with improved ratings. For example, If I had been a good borrower from FBN, that should count for me such that over the years, I could switch to Zenith and those records can still be viewed. Retail outlets could bank on that data to have structured paying for items. With time, I could build on all that and access facilities for a mortgage (if available).

Credit goes both ways- consumer credit when managed well can help to boost the spending capacity of the middle class which is a win. But then my focus is on industrial credit and that available to SMEs which is the bedrock of any developed society and also what Nigeria struggles with. In today's world, it's almost impossible to build viable and competitive SMEs and even larger industries without the nation availing them accessible and cheap credit.

Before the recent CBN intervention which has helped, folks who got access to credit just like most things in Nigeria were usually the few rich and powerful. The rest had nothing or got very little at cutthroat rates. If that wasn't the case CBN wouldn't have increased the ldr few years back with a hefty 50% fine for defaulting banks. Even at that, a number of banks are still below the threshold.

emmanuelewumi:
Very few Nigerians are credit worthy, the average Nigerian is not honest.

It is not easy getting an unsecured loan from GTB, you must have a job in some of the big organizations acceptable to GTB before you can get a loan. Yet some of the loans went bad and going bad.

Some of such workers have lost their jobs, some have changed jobs ( thank God for BVN GTB can always recover such loans), some got the loans and japa to Canada and other countries.


Banks should learn from microfinance banks, the microfinance banks give revolving loans to artisans associations or cooperative societies which will now give to their members or the microfinance banks will make the associations or societies to guarantee the loans.

Giving out loans based on where one works is currently not working in Nigeria, some of the banks are now requiring guarantees from employers

In every part of the world, there are two things humans don't like paying- debt and taxes.

The issue is that without an objective system, there is no way to track credible borrowers and there are no rewards/repercussions for being credit worthy.

I'd give an example- I have benefited on more than one occasion from the GTB quick credit scheme... Both times, I paid back in full before maturity but my limit remained same... If there was a way to track that I've been a good borrower, that'd mean that in future, the bank could offer higer credits for longer periods to those deserving and build from it.

There are people who pay their rents, electric bills e.t.c regularly... The infrastructure could be built to track and reward all these. That way, there'd be a repertoire of credible borrowers who could eventually access higher sums at cheaper rates.

The issue of changing jobs, emigration et.c would not affect a robust credit system as weve seen with other nations.
95% of houses and even cars and electronics we buy as second hand are bought brand new with credit in Western nations. They can do that bot because their citizens are honest but because of the repercussions for defaultees. The pros outweigh the cons.

Even in multicultural nations like the US, access to cheap credit has proven to be one of the determinants that differentiate poor areas from others. If the nation cannot seek ways to utilise the deposits in commercial banks for nation building, then we have failed to maximize the monetary system and have in essense fallen foul of it

Neverlosemoney:
FG are totally making a serious speculation that is doom to blow right on our face. Nigeria Economy should just burn down completely already no need to push the inevitable. Though, Desperate times calls for Desperate measures. The next political parties are coming to inherit a gigantic problem.

Nigeria has a way of edging on though things have got quite bad of recent and seem to be getting to a brink. With the current inflation after the last devaluation, I worry of what another devaluation will cause. Also with prices of food already set to be significantly higher next year due to security challenges

Who's surprised that alyts look sh**tty?
When betece goes to war, it goes alone....

Na afterwards the children dey comot play

Ibime:
Jedisco, the way SHIB keep printing lower highs and volume decline, would you japa around 26 or you think another test of 30 is possible. My position there is 10% of portfolio so significant. Please advise.

Yeah noticed the volume is decreasing but not that worried...Maybe cos I've seen a similar pattern play out on doge.... It's still holding the 4hrly and ideally, this should resolve within 8 - 16 hours

It depends on where you entered. If you got in on the initial test around 0.22, then there's ample room to place a stop loss between the wick of the last 4hr rerest (arrowed) and your entry..

If it bounces off here, my target is 0.33... I'd plan to sell there, buy back at 0.3 and resell at 0.33 - 0.35 before washing my hands off... Except it flips 0.35..

A part of me tells me it'd take 0.35 but I'm absolutely not betting on that.... Need to lock in profits cos it betece pulls back later this week, then shib will present a golden opportunity at the daily support

BuisnessThrills:
@jedisco, thanks for all the information shared,we looked forward to more , are you a fan of staking ? don't you think its better to hold your coin and then when you see that it has appreciate so much ,u convert it to usdt and then when the price drops down, you buy the coin back but this time u will be having more of it, you can't do this with staking cos ur coin already locked, hope I'm able to pass my question across in a simple way? what do you think? staking of coins or holding of coins and converting to USD once it its a very big upside value and then using the usdt to buy it back once the prices fall very well

It's a fine balance but goes both ways....

If my coins are on an exchange and there's a good rate on a flexible stake then I'd go for it. With flexible staking, you can redeem your coins anytime... Some exchanges offer >10% on flexible staking..

Usually, I use flexible staking or short term fixed staking... Given that I trade mainly majors, even when they pump, they hold structure for a while giving one room to take profits if needed...

But in all, I also tend not to overtrade once bitc0in establishes a pattern as most tend yo short-change themselves... E.g, if bitc0in makes a new ATH, there's a good chance I'd stake about 50% of my coins on exchanges for 3 months. Almost always, by riding the macro moves, you'd make more than thise who think they're day trading

Lastly, I also use staking stables to protect profits... When I catch a huge move on a coin, the temptation is to feel overconfident in the coming days and make wrong decisions mostly resulting in good loses. Currently, I just stake a part of my conquered loot even if its for a week until the market rejigs

mulannoire:
@jedisco where do you plan on hopping off one?

Aiming for 0.35 ... Haven't panned out the charts yet and this is on instinct...

On binaz, profits can also be taken around the previous high into bnb which was at 0.008....

At this stage of the market, I'd prefer to take profits into stables

Well said, Nigeria should not be borrowing foriegn currency at rates of upto 8%. Our revenue and gowth rate cannot support that...

Ibime:
The only thing I have returned to my bank so far is my initial capital and I returned in batches under £10k per time so the bank won't trigger an investigation. Nobody done hook me so far and from what the bank can see, I have not returned profit. If I blow to the point I can't get away with it by dripping it back slowly, I will just put 20% aside for Capital Gains tax. There is a grey area that says if you traded, it won't be treated as gains on Capital but as Income, and your profits will be added to your salary for the year and taxed at Income Tax rate which is more than double the CGT rate. Not sure their definition of trading for now.

But you know coinbaz shares details with relevant agencies if your yearly volume is above a certain threshold- 3k I think.... I don't know if binaz doee that...
Moreso, keeping details dey hard sef... Moreso if you trade often..

Ibime:
I only use Coinbaz now for onramp and offramp (withdraw and deposit) because banks have banned Binaz in UK. Eg if I want to withdraw cash, I send BTC from Binaz to Coinbaz and sell it there. The 1.5% fee is unavoidable hence I do all trading on Binaz now and only when converting to cash would I use Coinbaz.

How do you pay mama eliza her portion

Ibime:
Seems they are in the best position to facilitate central Bank Stable coins from most of the chatter I've been seeing.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/peruvian-stablecoin-launches-on-stellar-blockchain

https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/xrp-and-xlm-compete-for-cbdc-market-share-202110070654

Interesting... There's also been the chatter of them hosting the US cbdc... Obviously the US is not in a hurry to issue one given that usdc and usdt are already denominated in the dollar

The macro picture is slowly fitting my bias- which is simply another rally towards EOY... It's good my portfolio is significantly up before it's fully materialised.


My advice would be to study the events of October to December of last year and see how the market reacted... Now I'm not expecting the market to play out same thing, but human emotions are constant and this makes markets to keep replaying certain macro patterns...


Alyt prices arent bad now, I'm hoping betece gives them a week or two to rally....

If my bias continues to be right, then there should be one more selloff before betece breaks 64k.... And as usual, people will ask for lower...It's on that selloff, I'd like to make about my last fresh fiat buys of the year...


P.s... I'm collating lessons learned on the last bitc0in rally and would share these if and when we have a breakout...

The other day, the VP was tasking banks to support the housing industry by making available cheaper loans...

What he forgot is the role the FG and CBN have to play...

By now, the CBN should have built on or supported independent agencies to build on the BVN and NIN to provide a verifiable and objective system of rating the credit worthiness of citizens... In Western nations, citizens don't play with their credit rating as success in life can depend on it.

Banks will not go on handing cash out to random folks simply cos the VP asked... Also, asking the everyday middle class to be able to avail collateral to get significant credit is not practical. The current system only makes the rich richer. There should be an objective way of assessing those who are credit worthy based on past spending habits, earnings e.tc

That way, banks can objectively assess who is safe to lend money to.. The CBN can now follow this up by making sure banks lend out a minimum amount of their reserves and also making sure that lending goes to specific sectors...

That's how successful nations have leveraged the monetary system to their favour

NL1960:
I will say the monetary system is riigged against the poorer nations. US will do QE by printing dollars and distribute to their citizens as welfare to buy consumption and luxury items but when we print our own Naira, there will be an uproar. We cannot even print our own Naira to pay pensioners. We are expected to sell in USD and then convert to Naira before paying pensioners.

I'd say some nations do not just understand it and they keep sabotaging themselves.
Ideally, the US should pay countries interest for keeping their reserves in the USD...

Every nation prints money... The issue is what is done with the printed money...
How was the government able to keep up with 12% TB rate? It was simply by printing money and not from revenue...
Ideally, such monies should have been chanelled to productivity/manufacturing or even given directly to low income earners to stimulate spending...

I can't imagine the US printing money to issue yearly TBs or bonds at rates of over 10%