₦airaland Forum

MikeCZAR:
"Well played old chap"

We obviously knew it all along it was just a case of proving it with a German Source!!

Another German source that confirms it was the German Navy and not the SAN that fired on the Fishing boat:

South African-German naval maneuvers: Fishing boat almost sunk (with correction)
T.Wiegold March 27, 2015 · | 39 Comments

http://augengeradeaus.net/2015/03/suedafrikanisch-deutsches-seemanoever-fischerboot-fast-versenkt/

"When artillery firing during joint South African-German Seemanövers Good Hope off the coast of South Africa, a fishing boat was nearly sunk. Obviously, a good eight meters long boat had been confused with a remote-controlled drones over water, which are used for target representation. According to the German Navy is still unclear whether the errant shots of a German ship or a ship of the South African Navy yet. (Correction for new information: ) The shooting was organized according to the German Navy only by German units; South African ships were not involved.
As part of the German Operations and Training Association Hesse took the frigates (photo above) and Karlsruhe part in the exercise, which ends on (today) Friday.
About the shots on the fishing boat last Wednesday the captain of the Arctic South African media had reported in detail:
Skipper Anthony Day Said he Believed the warship thought his 28-foot ski boat which one of the small radio-controlled vessels taking part and Which are blown up in the naval exercise. (...)
At sea he saw a ship approaching slowly. "All of a sudden thesis three shots went off in very quick succession. They landed about 15 to 20 meters in front of me.
"It was so close We could smell the gunpowder and so loud my ears ringing werewolf. The crew werewolf panicking.
The German Navy had announced on Wednesday that it had taken place after the artillery shooting of the German Association of a cry for help on a marine radio distress frequency. Meanwhile ordered Marine Inspector Andreas Krause an inquiry to:
Meanwhile, there are increasing indications that there might be a connection between the artillery shooting and the cry for help. Meanwhile in South Africa was adjacent to the operator of the ski-Boats "Arctic" that a warship had shot in the early morning of March 25 2015 toward his boat with naval artillery. People were not injured. His boat is also intact. The "Arctic" was at that time in the vicinity of the Operations and Training Association of the German Navy.
The Chief of the Navy has therefore immediately instructed investigation into the facts."

Is been confirmed!!!!!
It was the German Navy that fired on the fishing boat!!!

The original article was in German!!
I used Google Translate to translate the text into english thus it sounds abit re.tarded,Those who understand German are welcome to read the original article:

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/man-konnte-das-schiesspulver-riechen-deutsches-kriegsschiff-versenkt-beinahe-motorboot_id_4576060.html

Translated(Quite a few language errors):

"An uninvolved fishing boat came into the crosshairs of a German warship. Off the coast of South Africa has targeted a frigate and almost sunk the boat. The cause was apparently a mix up in an exercise.
A warship of the Bundeswehr has almost sunk a fishing boat during an exercise in South Africa. As the "Mirror", citing a German bloggers, as well as the South African news portal "iol.com" reports. The boat was just missed at the accidental attack.
Bundeswehr does not respond to radio message
When naval "Good Hope" frigates "Hessen" and were "Karlsruhe" involved. One of the ships should have shot the innocent fishing boat, so "mirror". The warship is eight meters long have confused "Arctic" with a shared drone to shoot the Bundeswehr.
The fishing boat was then given an emergency call. Although the Bundeswehr terminated the fire, but responded to the statements of states that "mirror" not on the radio message. In an interview, the captain of the "Arctic" by three bullets spoke. 10 to 15 meters, they should have taken alongside the boat. "That was so close that we could smell the gunpowder and have been ringing my ears," the magazine quoted the captain."

agaugust:
Precision shooting....one man one bullet in the head of heart.

It's not like 3 shots with radar guidance still missing a whole big fishing boat of Mr.Day
.

"Precision shooting....one man one bullet in the head of heart."

Maybe one day:
Snipers hit M23 targets 2.2km away
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Snipers-hit-M23-targets-22km-away-20130829-2

SANDF RESERVE FORCE TEAM WINS INTERNATIONAL MILITARYSKILLS COMPETITION
http://www.dod.mil.za/media/media2014/SANDF%20reserve%20force%20team%20wins%20International%20Military%20Skills%20Competition.pdf

agaugust:
Yes you agreed after I opened your cararact blinded eyes you saw the pants/trousers were clearly desert camo.

You don't have to deny yourself because @Patches needs you to tell lies and help him sustain his own lies. Just try and be a little more morally upright in South Africa so that other nations can respect your citizens
.

Nope!! I Was merely taking your account of events in to consideration, you said they are wearing desert camo under their pull-overs, then i simply asked if thats the case why are they wearing pull-overs that jeopardize their camo.

If you could recall, i said only 1 soldier was wearing desert camo.

Henry120:
1 medic for 400 troops. That's the SANDF way.

A pathetic excuse for a military.

We have a proportionate number of Mags per man, plus more. And who says 5 Mags won't be enough to neutralise an enemy, you?

Unlike the SANDF, the NA can pretty well shoot.

Jap maybe one day you guys can be half as good as us!!

SANDF RESERVE FORCE TEAM WINS INTERNATIONAL MILITARYSKILLS COMPETITION

http://www.dod.mil.za/media/media2014/SANDF%20reserve%20force%20team%20wins%20International%20Military%20Skills%20Competition.pdf

Snipers hit M23 targets 2.2km away
http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Snipers-hit-M23-targets-22km-away-20130829-2

Henry120:
As i stated earlier, you cannot.

Mbeki and Rouhani
The intelligence profile also reveals that Iran approached South Africa's leadership in search of a workaround for international sanctions imposed by Western powers. It cites "a covert source" who claims that on two occasions, then-President Thabo Mbeki had met with senior Iranian officials requesting help with their nuclear programme.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/spy-cables-south-africa-spies-iran-operations-guardian-ssa-tehran-undercover-carpet--150219184023503.html

Cammo:
I got 18 mentions from this thread alone

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaah you just made my day bro!!!!

agaugust:
Even your Southie friend @jn115 that brought the picture has admitted that the sweaters have desert camo under them. You want to be more catholic than the pope himself? Fool !
.

I didnt admit anything mate!! You said they have desert camo under their sweaters not me!

agaugust:
Battle tested armies like America and Britain DO NOT wear dark brownie uniform inside yellow sand desert . Mumu
.

Seems like its doing a good job to me:

Henry120:
They are not all SF forces, and they do not have a single camo like the inefficient SANDF. Every SF/SOF conducts land and sea trainings. Everyone of those listed SF/S0F teams, it is nothing unheard of. I didn't mention the british SBS, I only mentioned SAS.



No, all "SANDF" forces are issued a single camo. Your S.F wear green.

Your MRS is simply a boarding team, even small nations like togo , Seychelles and mauritius all have boarding teams.

Nothing fantastic about them.

Firstly i never said they weren't SFs or SOFs i used SFs as a general term , i said they conduct the same type of operations as our special forces,meaning land and sea!

Our MRS are specially trained for Maritime operations, for example anti Piracy operations! They too have their blue uniform and also their Standard Soldier2000 camo, i posted pics about 2 days ago on your thread.

"No, all "SANDF" forces are issued a single camo. Your S.F wear green."
They have their standard soldier2000 kit aswell as different camo patterns depending on their mission.

http://www.recce.co.za/

Henry120:
They are not all SF forces, and they do not have a single camo like the inefficient SANDF. Every SF/SOF conducts land and sea trainings. Everyone of those listed SF/S0F teams, it is nothing unheard of. I didn't mention the british SBS, I only mentioned SAS.



No, all "SANDF" forces are issued a single camo. Your S.F wear green.

Your MRS is simply a boarding team, even small nations like togo , Seychelles and mauritius all have boarding teams.

Nothing fantastic about them.

Firstly i never said they weren't SFs or SOFs i used SFs as a general term , i said they conduct the same type of operations as our special forces,meaning land and sea!

Our MRS are specially trained for Maritime operations, for example anti Piracy operations! They too have their blue uniform and also their Standard Soldier2000 camo, i posted pics about 2 days ago on your thread.

"No, all "SANDF" forces are issued a single camo. Your S.F wear green."
They have their standard soldier2000 kit aswell as different camo patterns depending on their mission.

http://www.recce.co.za/

agaugust:
After showing you 5 photos of American troops in war zone with different camo colours and mixed up jackets, I will leave you alone to drink from the bucket of self-delusion water till your tummy is full
.

You showed me only 1 photo where they wore a different colour jacket, and that was in pic 2, and my answer was that it looks piss poor!

agaugust:
Dude stop spewing garbage, South Africa has NEVER put SANDF into war with 3,000 troops so stop comparing your army to the level of battle hardened and big war tested armies like America and Nigeria.

See photo below American, British, and Australian troops in battle with jackets of colours different from their combat camo uniform, top flak jacket of different colour from their pants/trousers, and also body armour colours different from camo uniform colour, then troops with different uniforms in same teams.

So stop saying rubbish about Nigerian army.....when South Africa goes to big wars like Nigeria, come back and argue....
.

"body armour colours different from camo uniform colour"
When did i ever say they have to match their uniform?(Although personally it looks more proffesional)
When i said miss-match i meant soldiers in the same unit wearing different colours of body armour

Pic1: All are wearing the same body armour and uniform, the only difference is some have webbing on and others dont!
Pic2: They look piss poor to be honest,besides that it looks like a training exercise and not a combat zone.
Pic3: Dont know what you are trying to prove here?I never had a problem with different units using different camo, it was the Fact that Nigeria has Soldiers in the same unit with different webbing helmets body armour ect, and the fact that you have 10 different camo patterns.
Pic4: I see nothing wrong here,same webbing,body armour and uniform!

bidexiii:
Here u come again don't try and make yourself happ7, maybe by 2030 you might an active Army of 80,000,right now ur goverment is still struggling keeping up with the "less tham 40,000 men she's raising !

We have 80000 or to be precise 78 707.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_National_Defence_Force#cite_note-StaffingTargets-1

The only reason im using wikipedia as my source is because the fact i was banned for posting the Defenceweb source,the numbers on wikipedia were retrieved from defenceweb and are thus exactly the same!

AugustineAgain:
You see the red letter part of your post above ? A military expert will ALWAYS be one step ahead of you

PL-9C and A-Darter explode 5.6 km ahead of Gripen, but supersonic speed Gripen flies fast at 2,000 km/h into the explosion danger head !

1. Two missiles, one main big fire ball. Centre of explosion fireball....it does not vanish in few seconds....the burning continues.

2. High explosive warheads produce shrapnel, splinters, broken pieces of flame that is forced to scatter at high speed in 360 degrees direction.

3. Fire balls at centre of explosion does not vanish away in 1 second, it goes continues combustion for many seconds. Still deadly....see your own photo above. Missiles contain both high explosive warheads and fuel....mix all together !

4. The Gripen is actually flying at fast supersonic speed towards the exploded missiles, it will run into the fire ball just 4 seconds ahead !

5. Also, second danger is that the Gripen is flying at supersonic speed towards the blown up missiles, and the splinters/shrapnel/burning hot debris from the explosion is also flying at high speed towards the Gripen, in 2 seconds the Gripen will enter the flying shrapnel/debris radius and get a blast hit on the Gripen. Many pilots have died in real life war from high speed debris breaking through cockpit canopy glass to strike the pilot, or engine gets hit like a bird strike, or ordnance gets hit and explodes, or fuel tank gets hit and explodes.

Gripen has flown into death circle !

Try drive a car at 200 km/h speed and try escape an exploding petrol container 2 seconds position ahead of you !

A 2,000 km/h speed jet will not escape an explosion of missiles just 4 seconds ahead of the jet, it will fly into the burning death trap.

I am talking from pilots' real life combat experience, not internet copy and paste via google search.

Military researcher will ALWAYS be one step ahead of you !

Good morning my student, you owe me school fees, pay now or send your 18 year old junior sister to 'pay' me on your behalf

.

Dude do you have any idea how slow 2 seconds actually is?
I can personally tell you that i have a reaction time of about 200-210 milliseconds.
And a Fighter Pilot would most likely have a reaction time of even less. 2 seconds is basically an eternity,thus and the fighter pilot will avoid the blast with ease.

AugustineAgain:
Simply because that was the original argument in my comment, South Africa needs to send a white-man to challenge a Nigeria. Your balcks and coloureds do not have the brains to challenge a Nigerian in intellectual debate....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LBn2S3mgjo

"South Africa needs to send a white-man to challenge a Nigeria"

No...we sent a South African to challenge a Nigerian

lezz:
TAKE MORE:

[b]27 June Third ambush
It was the last main action of the war, and the last armoured vehicles battle of the War.
A mixed group of Angolans and Cubans formed by 30 men (part of the Cuban 5° Battallion of special forces, with the same Cuban source that claimed that actually Namibians of the SWAPO joined them) with 3 armoured vehicles BMP-1 attacked the 61 Mechanized Battalion of the enemy, formed by 70 men and 8 Ratel vehicles.
The South African neither understood what attacked them.
The BMP-1 fired together the RPG-7 rockets all together, and 4 Ratel were destroyed. The enemy escaped, suffering 20 killed and leaving behind an intact Ratel that was captured, (Another Cuban source reduce the number of Ratel with 3 destroyed and one captired) they reported to be attacked by 600 fighters, with 35 tanks, and claimed to have killed half of the attacking force, admitting 12 dead. That was the most ridicule attempt of the enemy propaganda to hide a failure.
The Angolans and Cubans claimed to be killed were 10 times the actual number of fighters involved in the battle and no tanks took part in the action. A second enemy columns of reinforcement was then bombed and destroyed by MiG-23[/b]

DUDE all you excerpts are from a forum!!!
And the most hilarious thing is, you claim that the accounts are the most authentic ,detailed , battle by battle accounts of the war yet.

agaugust:
South Africa's inexperienced air force has not deployed in ANY contested airspace in the last 20 years, last time you tried it against Cuba your jets were mercilessly shot down by Cuban teenage pilots, SAAF quickly ran away to hide on the ground sitting redundant inside air bases, while your government begged UN to hurry up and arrange peace talks with Cuba
.

hahahaha ,keep telling yourself these lies mate!!

andrewza:
Oryx carries over 3 times the man power for only double the cost. Point made.

dude! the a109 isnt a transport helicopter,its a LUH the oryx can carry 20x the
man power of the a109 it still wouldnt matter, a luh can carry out way more tasks than the oryx without being modifide. It would be idiotic to use an oryx for anti poaching,surveillance ect ect if you could use the a109 for less than half the price

andrewza:
In terms of run cost and complexity they pretty close. All those jobs can be done by the Oryx. Most of the ground work was done when developing the rooivalk. The Oryx can all ready load a 20mm has a door gun. All systems the French and other pumas can have so can ours.

A cheaper to run simply to fly chopper was what we needed. The A109 is none of those.

Cost per hour:
Oryx=R60000
A109=<R30000

www.iol.co.za/the-star/arms-deal-choppers-not-utilised-1.1576630#.VQ9B5NKUfIQ

andrewza:
Need is based on role and the Oryx can do every thing the a109 can do and better. There is no need for the A109. A cheaper easier to maintain and fly chopper would have been far more useful.

You cant compare the Oryx and A109.The A109 is a small LUH were as the Oryx is a medium transport helicopter.
And SAAFs A109 as they are fitted currently, can carry out tasks such as light passenger and cargo transport, patrolling and reconnaissance, liaison and command, medical evacuation, even light attack and antitank, escort and area suppression.

If you want to do that with the Oryx you are going to have to spend millions on modifications, not to mention the impact it will have on its primary role as a medium/troop tranporter.

And the operating costs for the Oryx per hour is more than double than that of an A109.

Patchesagain:
1. Yes, a twin engine air-superiority fighter like the Su30 should be able to defeat the Gripen.
2. Video's dont prove anything. Provide statistics
3. Our missiles are better (i have shown this)
4. You dont work with anyone, you live in your parents basement.

Give us stats augugubgugug

No one is talking about Su30's... we are talking about F-7's and we want to know how you prove it is more maneuverable than the Gripen

And as for video's... show us the F-7 doing this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwVJY5TyW0&t=42

Yes mate the Gripen has a much much lower wing loading than any 4+ Fighter on the market including the EF,Rafale,f22,su35 ect ect
An Aircraft with a lower wing loading will have more lift available at any given speed. Therefore, an aircraft with lower wing loading will be able to take off and land at a lower speed (or be able to take off with a greater load). It will also be able to turn faster and have a better claim rate.

Thus twin engine or not, the gripen is one(if not thee) of most maneuverable fighters today, and Definitely more maneuvrable than the Su30

frumentius:
There is such a page! Ridiculous! For the idiots here - and I've gathered there are many- GDP is meaningless, and so are the weapons systems country A possesses versus country B. It's all about much more than that, GDP per capita for exammple!. Bloody hell, are some of you teenagers on play-station?
Grow up! There are 5 countries that matter in Africa: Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria and South Africa and all have not paid attention to what's going on. This dick-measuring contest is precisely the reason this continent will always be a playground for such fallen powers as France. For example, why is France still a permanent member of the Security Council when Germany runs Europe? Because France still owns some African votes, FFS!

Nigeria set up ECOWAS to oppose French neo-imperialism; what's happened to that?

Mbeki in SA set up IBSA, a union of democracies in the South; what's happened to that?

SA, Naija, Algeria, Ethiopia set up NEPAD to develop African infrastructure on her own terms; what's happened to that?

African countries, in what should be the African century, have never had worse leaders! And what are you onanists arguing about?
Who is better utilising the crumbs from East vs West when it comes to exploiting our continent.
You should be ashamed of yourselves!

Shame on you all!

Yes bro, i dont know if you read the topic of this thread but here we discus only military related issues or issues that have an impact on respective militaries around the word...so you can take your political bullsh1t to the appropriate thread, which btw isnt this one.

agaugust:
Su-30 Flanker was NOT built for air shows or aerobatics, it was built for combat and air superiority. At air shows, every combat aircraft displays the tactics it will use to win real life combat. Cobra movement shows how Su-30 will evade enemy missiles or turn it's gun on an enemy, it also means in ground attack mode an Su-30 can stand almost stationary in the air like a helicopter.

Any Gripen jet that attempts super-maneuverability will be broken into pieces by it's own force of movement.

No 4th generation aircraft in this world can beat an Su-30 in cannon/gun fight

SAAF Gripen jet is crap....a waste of billions of dollars
.

The Fact that the Gripen has a lower wing loading and better claim rate disputes every thing you just said!

SAS Drakensberg:

Henry120:
They are not the same individual.

Are you the only Patrick on earth?

Sorry bro but @Agaugust even admitted it was him.

andrewza:
Anti piracy is a secondary role for the navy. Primary duty of the navy is to protect our maritime internist. A OPV can not do that against any Thing but OPV and smaller ships. Hence we have frigates and submarines.

The cheetahs where not up to the task vs the more modern fighters in Africa like the flanker.

Tanks represent our ground force derterent and nothing more.

The ratel 90 is the FSV of the mechanized infantry.

The rooikat are our reccon and raiders.

We should of kept a few Elands to act as scout cars and light armour.

Subs are a massive force muiltpliyer and allow us to threaten any one who dares to try and interfere with our martime intrisits.


GBADs is needed since the air force can not be every where at once and groups d forces need to defend themselves.


No we don't need a defence force. We could easily pull out of our peace keeping duties and build up a strong g paramilitary police element for the tasks we do, do. Thing is that 10 years from now or even 1 month from now we may need a strong defence force. And then it is to late to build one up. The defence force is like insurance. You pay for it for no gain for years and hope to never need it. But come the day you need it and you don't have it you are screwed.

Yes i agree 110%, this is precisely the point i was trying to make, even though we might not need the A109s now, the need may arise in the future, as you said anything can happen, thus its exactly for this reason(as you pointed out) we need frigates, tanks,GBADS,Gripens,Subs ect ect to be prepared for an all out conventional war(which could come sooner rather than later by the look of things).

andrewza:
It did not carry much. All so parachutes. The A109 was used because we have them not because we need them.

Well in that case do we need Frigates? why not have only OPVs, if all we are doing is anti piracy missions?
Do we need Gripens? Why not stick with the Cheetahs, they are still the most advanced fighter in Southern Africa.
Do we need Olifant tanks? A Ratel 90 or Rooikat can dismantle any Tank in Southern Africa
Do we need Subs?
Do we need GBADS?

Man do we even need a defence force, i mean we are the most stable country in africa and our police force will defeat any of our neighbours armies?

Henry120:
Even in your deepest, darkest hallucinations, you don't believe what you've just typed.

Nigeria, along with Egypt and Algeria Operate Africa's most modern array of equipment.

@Agaugust doesnt think so!

Augustine says:
March 19, 2015 at 12:50 am
Terrorists have struck Tunisia, one of the most stable Arab nations. Speculations point to ISIS from Libya.

NATO coalition in Iraq confesses slow progress means air campaign alone will not defeat ISIS, wary of ground troops deployment.

Nigeria still has serious shortage of weapons/equipment, and wide gaping capability gaps in combat. We have enough weapons to defeat Boko Haram today based on recent importations, but not enough to be a military power that can work with Egypt effectively. I won’t go into this topic again until after this war is over soon, hopefully after elections.

I still insist that Nigeria is buying weapons in trickles of 5 units, 10 units usual tradition…..and NAF is far behind and outside the top 10 as Africa’s number 11th ranked nation in air combat power…..NA remains one of the obsolete armies in terms of equipment in Africa, no single laser guided ATGM to boast of, reliable SAM is almost non-existent.

Let me keep quiet lest I offend my ogas again o !

andrewza:
The A109 was doing CnC and searching and rescue. It did not need to land.

It transported supplies aswell,just go watch the video mate.