₦airaland Forum

agaugust:
Are you the one personally buying OPV for South Africa? Abeg show us official source....oh ! Wait....the OPV South Africa dreams to buy has NO NAME....because they will buy NOTHING.

Come to Lagos ask Naija navy to let you borrow 10 Stealth Combat Catamarans for free
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You dont have stealth catamarans buddy, i posted a source from the manufacturer that dispute your claims.

Possible IPVs:
Pic 1: Paramount Group (42m Trimaran)
Pic 2: Veecraft (30m wave-piercer inshore patrol vessel)
Pic 3: Damen Shipyards (Stan Patrol 5009 50m)
Pic 4: SA Shipyards ( No related pic)

My Personal Favorite is the 42m Trimaran, the fact that it has a landing dock makes it much more versatile than its competition.

Henry120:
Fact remains, you are getting nothing, and you posted no proof to show you have more than 8 Gripen pilots.

I have, but you are just to lazy to go look for it, but ill post it again.

"18 Gripen navigators and pilots have been trained to operational status"

www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36789:saaf-should-consider-selling-gripens-and-buying-transports&catid=61:editor-column

Henry120:
Yawns!!!!!

Nothing to consult in the archives, as they are empty, as regards to this particular issue.

Lazy, cant say im surprised though

Henry120:
You posted photos, yes, they proved nothing, yes.

Sources too mate, consult the archives as you Nigerians like to say.

Henry120:
Still day-dreaming, okay.

Armscor got the all clear to purches OPVs and IPVs, thus its you day dreaming ,my friend.

Henry120:
Lol.......... indeed they are, indeed.

A random photo of some pilots now equals Gripen pilots.

You only got 8 qualified SAAF Gripen pilots. This is the fact.

I posted pics and sources that prove you wrong mate!

ActivateKruger:
I'm interested in seeing what Paramount Group will propose for us.. I would like it to go to a South African company

Unfortunately i think an OPV project will be to complex at this stage to build from scratch without the help of a foreign company, thus a collaboration will be needed and the Ships will still be build by SAn companies, as for the IPV, their are really impressive locally made products on the market including Paramounts 42m Trimaran. Ill try to post more pics and info about the possible IPVs that might be acquired by SAN.

ActivateKruger:
The Holland Class looks sleeker

haha i agree, its may favorite too, although i think it might be a bit to pricey, and the fact its basically a frigate at 108m(longer than our Valours) so im not sure if its the right option, thus id rather go for the Gowind class or Avante 3000

Possible OPVs for project Biro: All of the following Shipyards have shown interest in Project Biro, and all of the mention OPVs will be build locally.

Pic 1: Veecraft Marine + Navantia (Avante class 3000)
Pic 2: Damen Shipyards (Holland class OPV )
Pic 3: Southern African Shipyards + Germany’s Lurssen Werft (K 130 )
Pic 4: DCNS + KND (Gowind class )

What is Your Favorite?

SAAF will be training the Royal Airforce of Oman (RAFO) for the next year:
www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37386&catid=35&Itemid=107

overhypedsteve:
never mind. Now go find something to do with evarn.

Hahahahahah will do mate!!!!!

overhypedsteve:
don't push it bro.

Push what mate!!

agaugust:
Your top ranking South African universities teach Biology/Anatomy classes and tell them that another word for Knee is Commando?

Top ranking African universities indeed...Soweto squalor infected educational system
.

Obviously you didnt have a proper ENGLISH education otherwise you would know what a synonym is, its like our HMSD=HMS argument all over again.

overhypedsteve:
two wrongs cannot make a right bro. But now that you he mentioned sport, then I would like to tell you that southafrica have a very excellent sporting spirit. Compared to her other African counterparts.

I understand but a negative+negative make a positive,hahah just joking,but yes i will not dwell of topic if my Nigerian colleagues dont either, but if someone does i will respond period.

Oh and thanks for the sporting comment, you are right, we are a sport mad nation and very competitive(sometimes to competitive).

AugustineAgain:
.
[size=16pt]South Africans need image recognition eyeglasses for partial blindness

PHOTO 1 : MiG-21

PHOTO 2 :JF-17

Very different wings, nose, tail, air intake, tail fin, fuselage, tell the whole story [/size]
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I said based not an exact copy, just like the saaf hawk is based on the old hawk from the 60 and 70, only 10% of the saaf hawk is the same as the old one.
http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/40/hawk-mk-120

as for the hmd argument : The village idi0t cant understand that you cant have a HMS and HMD in one aircraft! but let me try and explain to in simple terms:

HMD= Targeting+ flight info
HMS= targeting

As you put it the jf-17 has both hmd and hms.
HMD+HMS=HMD because HMD is used for targeting + flight info, not just flight info.

and as i proved before useing the source you gave the jf-17s HMS or HMS/D is only used for targeting.
dus at this stage it only has a HMS/HMSD.

AugustineAgain:
[size=16pt]Same way JF-17 Thunder is a new design, no aircraft in this world looks like it....Unique !
[/size]
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Yes its a totally new aircraft witch is based on the mig 21, just like the olifant mbt is totally different from the centurion tank.

AugustineAgain:
Is every internet source reliable? South African defenseweb that you trust 100% says Nigeria has about 100 units of BTR-3U IFVs and it is very very wrong

There are stupiid interent sources with false information.
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Yes not all sources are reliable thats way i quoted 3 not just 1.

AugustineAgain:
Nope, you are the retaarrd, you fraudulently left out the end of the same source on JF-17 that says it has both HMS and HMD combined :

"Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod"


You are the newest fraudster Soweto sent to us here !
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You are a true village idi0t my friend.
The source says as i quoted it before, the hms on the jf-17 is only used for targeting.
HMSD or HMS/D = HMS you cant have both only the one or the other.

Henry120:
No, the E/F models are classified as 4.5 Gen, not the older C/D models. Those sources were referring specifically to the E/F models, although they didn't differentiate them. It is the E/F model that would have the AESA radar and ISRT.

It is also the E/F model we've seen in that promotional video, set in an African backdrop attacking SU-27's.

Nope all 3 sources are about the gripen c/d just READ the sources PLEASE, i dont want to quote the sources for no reason when it clearly states that its about the gripen c/d.

Henry120:
Generally, Newer Jets are based on older models, it may be untrue for the Gripen, but it's a known fact.

I believe augugust has answered that question.

Yes your right but i was never arguing that fact, just pointed out that the gripen was a new design.

Henry120:
Nigeria would go for the JF-17 thunder jets, and there are many credible advantages of going for the JF-17 over any other fighter jet.


"How Nigeria lost use of her 18 Ground attack jaguar jets"

"An initial batch of 12 (twelve) single seat variants were supplied and later 6 (six) twin-seat versions which were used for pilot training in the United States were inducted into the NAF.

The Nigerian Air Force was denied the option of purchasing advanced weapons to enhance the deep strike capabilities of the Jaguar jets except for iron bombs of limited effectiveness. A request for in-flight refuelling tankers was also turned down because they could be used to invade neighbouring countries.

It was stipulated that the jets were to be used only for defensive purposes or they ran the risk of a withdrawal of technical support and spare parts and NAF could not resell/transfer the jets to a third party (another country) without approval of British Aerospace (now BAe Systems), UK Ministry of Defense and the House of Commons."



"Sometime in 2007 when these jets were put on display by the NAF for prospective buyers to inspect, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still."


With the JF-17, Nigeria would avoid all the Nightmares associated with the Jaguar, plus we would be getting a brand new aircraft with all it's capabilities.


I've always been of the Opinion that Nigeria Requires a COIN based aircraft. Fighter Jets are too fast, and they cannot provide CAS.

The French were successful with their Air Operations in Mali because, they've had surveillance assets in the Area, even before Operation serval began. So, targets were pre-known, and we're timely taken out.

A good example as to why fighter jets aren't good CAS assets is the "battle of Kobani". Over 500 bombing missions in Kobani by coalition forces, yet ISIS is still dug in.

With CAS based assets like the Tucano, ISIS would have been driven off kobani a long time ago.


That been said, i'm happy with the Choice of the JF-17 and possible numbers for the NAF. It is an impressive fighter, with a good loiter time of 5 hours.

NAF only needs to get additional surveillance assets.

I agree 100% i think its a great buy, i really do, for the money its a very capable aircraft and the fact that its based on earlier mig models like the the j-7 makes it more familiar to NAF Pilots and mechanics dus easing maintenance, plus its a true swing/multi role fighter and can preform a wide range of tasks. And if a conventional war does brake-out then at least you have a very capable fighter instead of being stuck with COIN aircraft.

AugustineAgain:
Quote that part. Confused man !

HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006.[71][72] It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display.[73] The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target.

If you are still confused then you are just plain stupd!

AugustineAgain:
You need to buy new reading eye-glasses with ANC cash support ?

"
The CM-400AKG was demonstrated to the public for the first time during the Zhuhai airshow last year. The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK and Type 052D destroyers. However, the range of the CM-400AKG has been reduced to 250 kilometers to meet export restrictions of the international Missile Technology Control Regime."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131126000062&cid=1101

This is the missile Nigeria will use to sink ALL your Valour frigate warships in 5 minutes !
.

Fair enough but the exsport version, the one NAF MIGHT be getting will only have a range of 250km!
BTW you dont have the missile yet, never mind the aircraft!!

AugustineAgain:
See why I said you have learning problem?

See your own source above calling the 1970s HMS an HMD at the same time.....

""
"The first aircraft with simple HMD devices appeared for experimental purpose in the mid-1970s to aid in targeting heat seeking missiles."

JF-17 has HMS/D meaning HMS plus HMD.

Then both are the same, depends on use of English language.

The HMS on a 2014 JF-17 is NOT the same old rudimentary-elementary HMS that SAAF put on Mirage jet many old year 1970 ago.

Use your head like an adult dude, complex things screw you up badly
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Nope the source YOU GAVE again clearly states that there is a difference one is for targeting and the other for targeting and display of hud info etc. Plus the jf-17 source you gave also states that the hms/d is only used for targeting

AugustineAgain:
Nope, range of the CM-400 is 500km, just that export versions were deliberately reduced in range to 250km because of international laws

"The CM-400AKG was demonstrated to the public for the first time during the Zhuhai airshow last year. The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK and Type 052D destroyers. However, the range of the CM-400AKG has been reduced to 250 kilometers to meet export restrictions of the international Missile Technology Control Regime."


LOL....Your Gripen cruise missile speed is less than mach 1, even a local hunter's gun will sh.oot it down

WOW....My JF-17 cruise missile speed is a whopping mach 4, even America is afraid of it !
.

SOURCE YOU gave says 180km-240km, give another source to prove your new 500km range please!

AugustineAgain:
HMS and HMD mean the same thing, do you ever learn ?

"A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is a device used in some modern aircraft, especially combat aircraft. HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing. Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)"
.

you just prove what ive said the whole time: HMS/HMSD =Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)" dus targeting of weapons

HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)
"The first aircraft with simple HMD devices appeared for experimental purpose in the mid-1970s to aid in targeting heat seeking missiles. These rudimentary devices were better described as Helmet-Mounted Sights. Mirage F1AZ of the SAAF (South African Air Force) used a locally developed helmet-mounted sight."

Conclusion: HMD not the same as HMS

AugustineAgain:
[size=16pt]

LOL

Gripen cruise missile is far inferior to JF-17 Thunders SUPERSONIC ANTI-AIRCRAFT CARRIER MISSILE....

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131126000062&cid=1101

JF-17 combat weapons firepower is far superior to Gripen

GAME OVER + CASE CLOSED.
.[/size]

CM-400akg range=180-240km
KEPD 350 range= over 500km

cm-400akg speed is extremely impressive though!
www.taurus-systems.de/tsg/brocs/TAURUS%20KEPD%20350.pdf

AugustineAgain:
The South African black and white doctors running away daily to America will laugh at your 'better' ANC republic

Actually my dad worked for a South African firm doing a project for an America firm. And yes iam not a fan of the anc, but the tide is changing in SA and the ANC wont be in power for much longer.

AugustineAgain:
LOL KEPD.35 is NOT a stealth missile like the JF-17 carries stealth missiles, Gripen is inferior.

Secondly, Gripen not able to carry nuclear missile is a big minus and makes it inferior to JF-17.

What is a Gripen user wants to launch it's nuclear missile? Like if India buys Gripen....no wonder India rejected Gripen jets.

Swedish junk of 1998 old time generation.....Gripen jet C/D
.

If saab really wanted to, it can definitely configure the gripen to carry nuclear missiles, Are NAF jf-17s going to carry nuks ?

AugustineAgain:
Yes, I thought I was replying @MiG-23.....the guy is NOT American, if he wants to drag that with me, I will expose him. I live in America.

Good for you, used to live there to from 1998-2000 in kansas city missouri.

South Africa still a 100x better for me personally