₦airaland Forum

AugustineAgain:
Thanks, you just proved Gripen weapons are inferior to JF-17.

Gripen CANNOT carry or launch long range cruise missiles, stealth missiles, nuclear missiles.

Gripen price is a $50 million junk and Swedish rip off !
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KEPD.35 is a long range cruise missile, as for nuclear missiles, sweden and SA are non nuclear states dus no need for nuclear missiles.

AugustineAgain:
I just posted source that is has both options HMS and HMD.

Later you will be complaining about the way I answer you, it's all about the crooked way you think and talk, I just retaliate, my nature.

You must be a clown, you were posting photos of MiG-21 to compare it to JF-17 Thunder, real comedian you are, but surely not an aviation expert enthusiast....you know next to nothing except internet copy and paste

Please quote where i said i was an aviation enthusiast or expert.

Your source only points out that the HMS used in the jf-17 is used only for targeting: (A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006. It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display. The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target)

BTW u are confusing me with the american!

AugustineAgain:
JF-17 has mix of about 5 different European/NATO countries and Asia. The equipment varies with customer's choice. That is what is called OPEN-ARCHITECTURE.....I thought you said you know a lot about aviation
Learn to read :

JF-17 Avionics list -

Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod
.

(A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006. It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display. The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target)

So it only has(HM sight) witch is used for targeting?

AugustineAgain:
What cruise missile, stealth missile, or nuclear weapon does the Gripen carry ? Just short range weapons and nothing else really?
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Was asking a honest question just wanted to know, no need to get pissed if you dont know, a simple I DONT KNOW will do.
As for the gripen missiles:Missiles:
6× AIM-9 Sidewinder (Rb.74) or IRIS-T (Rb 98)
4× AIM-120 AMRAAM (Rb.99) or MICA
4× Meteor (under development)
4× AGM-65 Maverick (Rb.75)
2× KEPD.35
2× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
Bombs:
4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
2× Bk.90 cluster bomb
8× Mark 82 bombs

plus a-Darter missile from 2015

AugustineAgain:
[size=25pt]

NAF : Devastating Thunder JF-17 [/size]


The avionics software comprises more than one million lines of instructions, and incorporates the concept of open architecture. Instead of the military-optimised Ada programming language, the software is written using the popular C++ programming language, enabling the use of the numerous civilian programmers available.[66] The aircraft also includes a health and usage monitoring system, and automatic test equipment.[12][67] The flight control system (FCS) comprises conventional controls with stability augmentation in the yaw and roll axis and a digital fly-by-wire (FBW) system in the pitch axis. The leading edge slats/flaps and trailing edge flaps are automatically adjusted during manoeuvring to increase turning performance. The FCS of serial production aircraft reportedly have a digital quadruplex (quad-redundant) FBW system in the pitch axis and a duplex (dual-redundant) FBW system in the roll and yaw axis.

The JF-17 has a defensive aids system (DAS) composed of various integrated sub-systems. A radar warning receiver (RWR) provides data such as direction and proximity of enemy radars, and an electronic warfare (EW) suite housed in a fairing at the tip of the tail fin interferes with enemy radars. The EW suite is also linked to a Missile Approach Warning (MAW) system to defend against radar-guided missiles. The MAW system uses several optical sensors across the airframe to detect the rocket motors of missiles across a 360-degree coverage. Data from the MAW system, such as direction of inbound missiles and the time to impact, is shown on cockpit displays and the HUD. A countermeasures dispensing system releases decoy flares and chaff to help evade hostile radar and missiles. The DAS systems will also be enhanced by integration of a self-protection radar-jamming pod that will be carried externally on a hardpoint.

The first forty-two PAF production aircraft are equipped with the NRIET KLJ-7 radar, a variant of the KLJ-10 radar developed by China's Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET) and used on the Chengdu J-10. Multiple modes can manage the surveillance and engagement of up to forty air, ground, and sea targets; the track-while-scan mode can track up to ten targets at BVR and can engage two simultaneously with radar-homing AAMs. The operation range for targets with a radar cross-section (RCS) of 5 m2 (54 sq ft) is stated to be ≥ 105 km (65 mi) in look-up mode and ≥ 85 km (53 mi) in look-down mode.[69][70] A forward looking infrared (FLIR) pod for low-level navigation and infra-red search and track (IRST) system for passive targeting can also be integrated; the JF-17 Block 2 is believed to incorporate an IRST.

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006. It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display. The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target. An externally carried day/night laser designator targeting pod may be integrated with the avionics to guide laser-guided bombs (LGBs).An e xtra hardpoint may be added under the starboard air intake, opposite the cannon, for such pods. To reduce the numbers of targeting pods required, the aircraft's tactical data link can transmit target data to other aircraft not equipped with targeting pods. The communication systems comprise two VHF/UHF radios; the VHF radio has the capacity for data linking for communication with ground control centres, airborne early warning and control aircraft and combat aircraft with compatible data links for network-centric warfare, and improved situation awareness.
Data from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft)
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles)
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[114] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)
Useful load: 3000 kg (6600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN (19,000 lbf)
G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,300 kg (5,130 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.6 (1,217.9 mph; 1,960.1 km/h)
Combat radius: 1,352 km (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,482 km (1,880 NM)
Service ceiling: 16,920 m (55,500 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1x 30 mm GSh-30-2
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage; pylon stations number 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumb capable) with a capacity of 3,400 kg (7,500 lb) for external fuel and ordnance

Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range)
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5EII (Short-range)
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[79]
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)

Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (Laser-guided)
GBU-12 (Laser-guided)
LT-2 (Laser-guided)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided)
LS-6 (satellite-guided glide bombs)
Satellite-guided bombs
Others:
Countermeasures (Flares, Chaff)
Up to 3 external drop tanks (2× under-wing 1,100 litres (240 imp gal; 290 US gal), 1× under-fuselage 800 litres (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)) for extended range/loitering time

Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod


[size=25pt]Nigeria's New Air Power Is This Thunder ![/size]

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What HMD does the jf-17 use, cant find anything on the web with the exception that it uses a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and nothing els really?

AugustineAgain:
Southies are dreamers, they have obsolete Gripen C/D with 20 year old generation radars

Reason why Brazil refused to buy the SAAF's kind of old fashioned Gripen
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yes gripen e/f wasnt available when we ordered it,and gripen c/d entered service for the first time in 2002. Plus grippen c/d are 4.5 gen fighters:

www.asianmilitaryreview.com/4-5-generation-combat-aircraft/
www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-jas39-gripen-swedens-4th-generation-wild-card-02401/

AugustineAgain:
Dude, welcome as a newcomer to this forum Mr.South African.

Sorry I cannot repeat my past comments for every new South African that joins this thread, I have over 6,000 comments posted here in over 2 years, so I will not waste my time to please you. Consult the archives.

I posted proof that Rooikat 76mm gun is a COPY of Italian Oto Melara, South Africa copied it with Italian permission and changed the name as you always do to create false claims of 'MADE IS SOUTH AFRICA WEAPONS'

Then you guys turn around and call the Chinese copy cats, what about South African copies of Israeli and European weapons?

The Rooikat gun from the South African inside source I posted here many times, CANNOT shoot straight with accuracy because it is copied from a naval gun that is meant to shoot at big ships on open wide oceans and not small tanks in clutter filled lands and cities.

.

Thankx for the welcome though!

AugustineAgain:
Too many errors in your above comment. Let me pick one, the Gripen maneuverability is very poor for a $50 million jet.

I have posted videos of it here and compared it with Algerian Su-30 Flanker, no South African dared to argue when both videos were posted here side by side in comparison. The greatest weaknesses of Gripen jet are the poor maneuverability for air to air dogfight and poor combat radius/range.

Sweden's just ripping people off with that price tag, same way their Volvo cars perform less than Toyota cars but the Swedish car cost much more than the Japanese....also add the bad fuel economy of Volvo cars and the Volvo engine inside the Gripen.

Sweden's SAAB manufacturer had to bribe South African politicians with millions of dollars to manipulate them to buy Gripen jets, a jet that buyers need to be bribed with money to purchase, must be a problem loaded jet and surely over-priced

For JF-17 Vs Gripen, @Henry posted a chart to prove JF-17 Block I is eqaul to Gripen, and @agaugust posted detailed descriptions to prove why the JF-17 Block 2 beats the Gripen, so if any South African wants to challenge Nigerians, post your own detailed sources and stop grumbling like a labouring worker not paid salary for the past 12 months
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Go read my post carefully again , what i was trying to get at is that the gripen isnt the fastest or carries the most payload but its the gripens software that make it such a good fighter.And the gripen makes up for its price tag by being the least expensive fighter to maintain in the world.

AugustineAgain:
The only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun. The other 105mm has one single unit produces and project rejected by SANDF.


Proved : only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun, go fool the kids in your village with your imaginary fairy tales by moonlight
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Yes i agree with you only a handful of 105mm rooikat where ever produced and yes sandf did reject it (although the one or two that are build are still in the reserve unit) as the 105mm gun was to heavy and effected the mobility of the rooikat witch is its strong suit, as i said before the rooikat was never ment to be a tank destroyer but rather a very well armed recce vehicle. as for the 76mm gun it obviously had to be extensively modified to fit on the rooikat and be stable enough to be fired on the go, dus as i said its based on the italian gun but not a exact copy, as for it not being accurate...citation needed.

All i did was point out the new turret that is fitted to the rooikat in the picture of my first post witch is definitely with the sandf either in service or in reserve, most probabily the later as its most likely still in its testing fase.As for the numbers build... i have no idea.

Henry120:
It is the E/F, formerly N.G that is classified as 4.5 Gen, not the older C/D models.

Go read the sources again all 3 are based on the Gripen c/d. The e/f models will be classified as 6th gen or at the very least 5+ gen aircraft.

Henry120:
The allegation that the creator of the chart, cherry picked specs, is simply baseless, and un-founded.

The compared specs of both Aircrafts using the same characteristics. The chart showed the JF-17 block 1 been similar to the Gripen C/D

On the block II.
"The Block-II JF-17 has improved avionic systems, air-to-air refuelling capability, additional weapons carriage capability and some extra operational capabilities, according to the air force.
It is designed as a lightweight multi-role aircraft, with a claimed top speed of Mach 2.0 and operational ceiling of 55,000 feet."

http://tribune.com.pk/story/803113/pakistan-looks-to-boost-military-export-with-revamped-jf-17/


The JF-17 operates an open architecture, what's to say customers can't instead chose to get improved avionics or AESA and IRST capabilities from a 3rd party?


Now this same argument pops up again, I see no reason why the chinese should leave out an independent chinese J-10 fighter development for a similar fighter with a partner. It is at the discretion of the chinese to chose what ever fighter they want.


Newer Fighters are generally based on older models, as you said, the JF-17 is a "further development", it isn't and would not be a MIG-21 family aircraft. It is the Sino-pak JF-17.


The JAS 39 Gripen is also based on an older SAAB model aircraft. I do not see what the fuss is.

Corruption, Corruption, isn't this our default tone?

Nigeria has to take into account it's threats, and make an informed decision on the best fighter for airforce. Taking into account availability of spares, political environment, military relationship, cost to threat level/ ratio.

All with nothing to do with corruption. The JF-17 is a fantastic aircraft which fully integrates D.S.I in it's design.

If Nigeria eventually pens down the deal, it would most likely go for the Block II, as the block 1 isn't a veritable option.

On a personal note i really hope Nigeria can acquire the JF-17 (although i think the super tucano can do similar job for alot less money) and bomb boko haram out of existence, as for the gripen being based on older models, this is not true n 1979, the Swedish government began development studies for an aircraft capable of fighter, attack and reconnaissance missions to replace the Saab 35 Draken and 37 Viggen. A new design from Saab was selected and developed as the JAS 39.

Does the JF-17 operate a HMD, i have been browsing the web and cant find anything except for the fact that it might operate a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and thats about it? These days its software that counts, the aircraft that sees the enemy first is usually the one that wins.

MiG23:
North American actually. I'm from the states.

Used to live in the states when i was still living with my folks, from 1998-2000. If my memory is correct we lived in kansas city missouri.

Henry120:
Why don't we just round it up to 7th gen, or better still "Martian tech"

Gripen is a 4+/4.5 gen aircraft: www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-jas39-gripen-swedens-4th-generation-wild-card-02401/
www.asianmilitaryreview.com/4-5-generation-combat-aircraft/
www.brighthub.com/science/aviation/articles/92286.aspx

Please respond with a informative argument, not childish rants!

Henry120:
The lies we tell ourselves to sleep well at night.

So, SAAF Gripen is now a 5th Gen fighter....m. what a comic relief.

Never said it was 5th gen, but its more of a 5th gen aircraft than a 4th gen, a 4.5 gen if you will.

Just getting back to th jf-17 vs gripen topic:

I really do think for the money the jf-17 is a pretty good fighter with good air-to-air capability, decent air-to-ground capability and excellent anti ship capability definitely making it a 4th gen aircraft , but it cant be compared to the gripen. what makes the gripen special is not because its the fastest(can reach mach 2.3 though),the most manoeuvrable,our carries the most payload, what makes its special is its ground braking software, making the gripen extremely easy to operate and enabling it to engage multiple targets at once including air and ground targets at the same time. Saaf gripens also operate the Cobra HMD witch is one of the best if not thee best HMD currently in service and is also being integrated into the gripen ng/ e,f. Dus the current gripens are closer to a 5th gen fighter than a 4th gen fighter. The gripen e/f will also be the first 6th gen aircraft in the world.

More about the Cobra HMD:www.saabgroup.com/en/About-Saab/Newsroom/Press-releases--News/2011---9/Helmet-Mounted-Display-System-now-operational-in-South-African-Air-Force/?a7pageid=37457

76mm rooikat, 105mm rooikat, 120mm rooikat?

agaugust:
SANDF Rooikats have a 76mm gun copy of Italian Oto melara. Rooikat gun is reputed incapable of shooting straight.

Mongoose defense system is NOT operational yet
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Wouldnt say its a copy of the italian gun but its definitely based on the the oto melara witch is a naval gun,dus more powerful than your average 76mm as for the rooikat in picture that is definitely not a 76mm much thicker and longer than the 76mm.

And as for it not shooting straight, any citation to back that up,because as far as i know the rooikat 76 was pretty accurate! and could penetrate t62 armour at 1km, although it was never intended to be a tank destroyer.

One post and i get banned why?