₦airaland Forum

Mkenya2019:
Loss is a loss. US and NATO have lost to Taliban. Boers lost the war. The rest are details - you never could crash ANCs and they are now running South Africa.Nobody is going to be doing copy of your non-existent COIN operations.

You copied the British model that was used in Kenya and won the 1st phase until 1970.

Then you started doing your own things - and ANC rose from ashes of defeat - and went to eventually take power in early 90s.

the difference between the border war and Afghanistan is the actual fact that the insurgency was totally demolished and the SADF had unanimous control.... Your own source stats that had it not been for apartheid governments collapse the status qou would have remained.

The so called COIN loss had nothing to do with the actual COIN tactics of the SADF which weren't just superb but actually adopted by militaries across the globe hence why MRAPS are a thing but due to international political pressure....

Also isn't Britain part of NATO??

P.s if SA lost the Border War why isn't Angola or Namibia communist?? Or why don't you name just 1 YES just 1 battle in the entire 23 year border war that the SADF lost

rvp2018:
Before you come to regurgitate half-baked boer inspired epithets ; please read stuff like this.

Overall the BOER COIN ended in a LOSS;

Please for f. sake dont compare yourself with mighty british. You COIN actually borrowed a lot from Kenya's British experience. The ANC themselves also copying Mau Mau.

The first phase was succesfully (1960-1969) as you copied the Brits - the rest were huge losses - btw 1970-1990 (COIN LOSS). Nobody is going to copy your unsuccessfully war against useless Bantu tribes of south africa and weak kneed aboriginals.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/j.ctt5hhsjk.25?seq=12#metadata_info_tab_contents

you obviously didn't read the whole article my bru literally says that the actual COIN operations where hugely successful however due to political pressure the ANC was able to gain power!!

Well done!! You played yourself

Raeblack:
namibian jf17

namibia does not have jf17s

Mkenya2019:
Dry jokes from the Boer.

Every modern MRAP is in existence thanks to the COIN lessons learned by South Africa

rvp2018:
Nobody understand coin like the Brits.The rest are details.

And yet they are using South African tactics and South African designed vehicles

Mkenya2019:
Dont compare yourself with British who colonized the world including the Boers of South Africa. In fact you became independent from Brits in 1960s? Then messed up for 40yrs and eventually had to sue for peace.

The Brits are bosses when it come to COIN. By far. South Africa do not even feature.

Firstly the Brits lost the first Boer war.... And the second it took the most powerful empire the world has ever seen with Half a million troops 3 years to beat a handful of farmers with no standing army and it was also the most costly British War in its history excl WW1/2 of course... They also had to resort to Nazi like tactics of consentration camps and scotch earth policies which percentage wise killed more Boer woman and Children than the Nazis killed Jews.

Also if South Africa doesn't feature wrt coin why is it that everybody has either bought or copied our vehicles? Which were specifically designed for irregular operations?

Lastly the border was was 23 years not 40 and if the US allowed it Angola would have been a South African colony just like SWA was.....Apartheid ended due to international political pressure not the MKs warfare....

willybaby:
Nice pictures... It's worrying how Africa has become the new middle East..

my bru islamist is just a new name for rebel, and we all know rebels have been in Africa for as long as we could remember.

Kazikazi:
You don't need to arm every Joe for you to be at peace. Actually, those guys whom you are busy dishing out guns to them they can be used to gather intelligence infos which your nation needs. SA farmers are mostly armed,but do u know how many are killed yearly? Not all insecurities can be solved by just arming the folks! Strengthen your intelligence agencies just like Rwanda and others are doing

the farmers being killed are usually 80 years + and don't carry guns on them..... And it's about 50 a year.....however its declined because of the adoption of farm watches which work a lot like the old commando system which was unfortunately and wrongly disbanded in 2003

Mkenya2019:
Dont argue for it' sake. British are the bosses in COIN - and Kenya is lucky because part of British successfully counter-insurgency was waged by Kenya Army under the British against Mau Mau - and British till date train with Kenyans.

South Africa can be described as failed attempt - because you never managed to defeat ANC - it became protracted war of 40yrs - and had to eventually make peace.

Successfully COIN should be quick (maybe 5yrs) and should achieve results without becoming another Afgan or Boko haram or South Africa ANC wars- protracted war.

And counter-insurgency - should begin with heavy 'shock n awe' attack - something South Africa forces could not really do - In Kenya British bombed the Mau Mau - then quickly moved in with ground troops - combed the forest - and then started local support/police operations - in 4yrs the war emergency was over....and remnants of Mau Mau were being handled by local police and community.

It is an often made claim that the ‘British approach’ for conducting counterinsurgency (COIN) operations can act as guidance for how to achieve the best results. This approach has been honed through Britain’s unique experience of empire policing and conduct in several small wars spanning over 150 years. Britain has taken part in 72 military campaigns since the Second World War (73 including current operations in Libya), of which 17 are COIN operations, and 7 of these can be classed as successes (Rigden 2009:

My bru did the MK ever occupy any land in SA? Hell the ANC could barely move hence they had to set up shop in neighbouring countries and still got bombed in Zim and Moz.....

Also if you knew anything about warfare you would know that the border war was in fact an asymmetric war in other words it was both conventional and irregular.

The KD ratio in Angola was 15:1 in favour of the SADF also throw in the fact that not a single battle was lost by the SADF in the entire war shows you how successful they were.

My bru there are literally books on South African coin tactics which are used and studied by militaries across the world

And SA doesn't get trained by the UK or US... Till this day foreign soldiers includimg the US still come to SA for training specifically coin tactics

Shaytun:
Rest.

facts my bru

Mkenya2019:
Fighting counter-insurgency is not a impossible. Just ask British or Kenya Forces to train on how to fight such. You need and can win local support...after quick war of awe. First bomb the hell out of Boko Haram - with Nigeria Airforce - then move in with ground troops supported by Airforce - then finally move to next phase of winning local support - and work with police. The last point is multi-agency where you incorporate police and slowly pull out the army.

when it comes to COIN warfare there is no country with more experience than South Africa..... Not only does SA have extensive experience conducting coin operations but it's also the country that practically invented modern insurgent tactics, hence South Africa has been both insurgent and Counter insurgent in modern times

IGpro1:
majority of those were refitted and are back in action,
Do you know what is called air sorties, the attrition rate is minimal compared to even developed countries, those helis and aircrafts fly almost everyday and for hours, how do you expect them not to develop fault. Us crashed their f35 on many occasions.
The good thing is that all were either refitted or replaced.
How would you know what sorties and attrition rate means, when Kenyan airforce barely flies,
No single airforce in Africa flies the number of sorties flown by naf in a day. They carry out air raids in Niger, Chad and Cameroon.

Do you have an airforce.

Reminds me of those Kenyans that kept pushing the fake news of them having MI-28 . Took years before some could accept the reality, while others like you still believe you have them in secret locations.

uhm.... No!!! However I do believe there are currently 15 and 18 on order according flight International's world airforces report

IGpro1:
but you know both militaries shouldn't be compared at all, it's a waste of time.
A country building warships, drones, aircraft parts, missiles, rifles, rocket pods, Apcs with upto 5 defence companies, to say the least,
Retooling massively shouldn't be compared to a country that lacks equipment, war experience, almost zero defence industry.
Compare
Equipments
Man power
Economy
Political influence
Defence industry
Ship yards
MRO
In house aircraft maintenance
Experience
Kenya falls short,
The gap is so wide.
Chill bro, not everything is up for a debate.

Warships-built by China using Nigerian labour
Drones- small surveillance drones yes
Missiles- nope!!! Nigeria does not make missiles
Rocket pods - yes, but its not very difficult to make, rebel groups have been making homemade rocket pods for years
Apc- YES!!! This is where Nigeria is doing very well! Some top quality products coming from the likes of Profoce especially

68816419:
1- ARA- THUNDERER (100% Nigeria
2- "Chadian army proudly display their Profoce ARA MRAP Nigeria's first ever Defence Export during their 60th Independence Day celebrations. It should be noted that Nigeria's leading defense in Africa
3- Proforce Ara Mk.2 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle (MRAP). It is Nigeria's most cutting edge defence product yet, and is Nigeria's first defence export, having received orders from the Chadian Army.

you good bro?

Biafrarep:
Look at these rankings and where they placed Kenya. After talking about Egypt, South Africa, Nigeria and a few others they considered worthy, they now lumped the rest together, in such a passive way

Check all African rankings based on military strength, and you would never see Kenya in the first 10 while while Nigeria is always in first 3!

Even you yourself knows that Kenya is not in same league with Nigeria, military-wise but you have allowed emotions to becloud your sense of logic.

GFP has never been a great tool to compare military power.....just the mere fact that Nigeria ranks higher than Morocco is evidence enough that the ranking is broken

Saddamochieng00:
I was just trolling you. Sad that you don't operate at a wavelength high enough to pick it up.

well my boet, never thought a flat earther could be sarcastic ...... Well played

Vlain:
How am I shift goal post when you are the one who seems to sweeps the answering of a simple question under the carpet each time I bring it up.

Btw I am not Sammy,I honestly do t know what you are talking about

keep quiet and know your role Sammy

Saddamochieng00:
You have total disregard for human life. You and all your business( together with their sponsors) should be cancelled. You domestic terrorist. #canceljln115

you do know this is the 5th coup(4 have been successful btw) attempt in Africa.... This year alone?.....

Me saying its nothing new isn't condoning the actions, but rather emphasising how fvcked Africa is as a whole.... Hence TIA....

Saddamochieng00:
What's exactly going on. I have not been following up on the news for quite some time. Last thing I heard is the Tigrays were causing trouble and that was that.

Can anyone check up on our Ethiopian friends from the other thread. Are they safe?

relax... Its just Africa being Africa not nothing new

Kazikazi:
That's not a point. What about Africa anyway?
Why are other African nations peaceful? Is Botswana not in Africa?
Or,what will u say about those shitholes like Afghanistan? Is Afghanistan gotten that shithole status because of TIA?

there have been 4 coup d'etat in Africa this year alone.......

TIA my friend

Kazikazi:
The whole issue is surprising. How can Ethiopian army with all their airforce jets fails to halt these guys who lack air force? Again,the Ethiopian gov failed to stop foreign military supplies to reach the rebels.

because TIA my bru.... TIA!!

ArabicBerber:
No; nothing of this catastrophic level has ever happened at the borders of Kenya. If you think repatriating some thousands of Somali civilians is an adequate learning experience your in for a rude awakening. Your looking at this at surface level. You want have a choice they'll be getting in of there own accord anyway they see fit. Even if by some unrealistic miracle nothing directly leaks into Kenya the regional fallout itself would Tsar Bomb your economy just by association. You'll be an unreliable vulnerable nation.



The Kenyan Army hasn't proven themselves reliable in anything. They've been bogged down in Mogadishu for years and have been letting terrorists slip right past there fingers wreaking havoc in northern Kenya, Nairobi and, other major cities across Kenya despite getting massive direct assistance from nearly every other nation in the region.

The Angolan Army is untested in these modern times.

South Africa's army is the most well equipped in sub Saharan Africa but all they do most of the time is show up shoot up a few of the bad guys and shrubs call it a win and fly out with the war they just left still raging.

The Nigerians ain't perfect but they've already showed themselves to be at least the 2nd most competent force in sub Saharan Africa. In there 10 years of fighting bokoharem has never captured a capital or moved beyond the north east region.

Today there just scavangers clinging to life around Lake Chad. The NAFS have accomplished this while fighting abroad in Darfur, Mali, Guinea, Gambia, and even Somalia to a much lesser extent. They've performed better than the militaries of Ethiopia, Sudan, Kenya, Ugamda, Mali, Niger, and Chad that's for sure.

The Egyptian Armed Forces could level the dam and all of Ethiopia if we pleased but where just trying to be the bigger men here and settle it like adults and not the overgrown children Ethiopians are by the day exposing themselves to be. Israel is not risking it to protect some Ethiopians. Egypt isn't rated 1# in Africa & The Middle East for no reason.





I'm Egyptian; I'm just being realistic pondering hypothetical outcomes based on the data at hand. No your not used to this potential catastrophe in the making. You've experienced nothing even close to this level.

please enduldge me further.... In which country has SA done that?

Also we all know Egypt is nothing without US and Middle Eastern Aid....

Shma:
What about TIA?

This Is Africa

mtisTheQubit:
Few armies can boast of being tough. Angola and Kenya are two examples. They went to battle and won. Consider Ethiopia. Roles have shifted. They were on top and gloating the other day, but now things are rough... S. A army is woke. Naija must show themselves by fighting the Boko lads... Egypt is all rhetoric with no action. They are terrified of Ethi and the Israelis.
Just as Kazi would say.Show what you've got...the same goes for military rank...you can't pretend you're powerful but don't show it.

how did you come to that conclusion?

Shma:
Sh*t is happening in Ethiopia. Why are guys so quiet on this issue?
@justnotyou
@jl115
@mtsithequibit
@obaaderemi
@kikuyu
@sadam
@gallivant
@kazikazi
@justozombie
@vaxx

And all the intellectuals.

what do you want me to say except TIA....why this surprises people is beyond me.

Vlain:
U forgot to answer again!!! What is going on? Is it old age

Sammy shifting the goal post like always..... Jeez my bru!! You ain't even trying to hide it anymore

Vlain:
Did it come in yes or No.

I determine how adequate you answer my question not you. I am the examiner,again not you

Now try again this time

Typical Sammy always with the "Yes or No" questions

Kazikazi:
I don't think it's Swahilis issue since in TZ we speak more Swahili but our education is more better than most if not all other nations in this thread.Can you believe how some nations they struggle to know how to read and write?

excluding South Africa of course

mtisTheQubit:
forgot to post the looting thingy...wasnt that good..
well black learned from Boers how to do stuff.like you folks looted almost everything in SA ..now its black turn to do so

not even making sense anymore go play with Sammy

Vlain:
I don’t think you did. My question gave room to answer with one out of this two words “yes or No”. Now answer me,did you think you provided me with the appropriate answer or should I just give up on you this minute

yes I provided you with more than an adequate answer Sammy

Vlain:
I said answer in yes or no.
Now go back and do that.

chill Sammy, I answered your question, no stop crying.

mtisTheQubit:
cant blame them man..with the looting an rioting going on

well this would've been a good comeback if it was actually relevant