₦airaland Forum

freecocoa:
No, I can't compare both because it is not your fundamental right to smoke a controlled substance but it is, to choose a consenting adult, to sleep with.

My point exactly, at the emboldened, who and who gave anybody the right to label a thing 'controlled substance?'

I see sarcasm is your strong suit, it will be in your best interest to read up on the matter.

Believe me, if and when I decide to be sarcastic, you'll know.

freecocoa:
Na wa o, I'm supposed to compare using of drugs to hömosexuality now? Wow! Just wow!

Why not? It all falls under 'right', right?

You do know what is meant by fundamental human rights, yea?

Oh no don't understand what is meant by fundamental human right, please, do me the privilege of explaining to me what fundamental human right is.

Thank you, as I wait your astute response.

Favolly:
I made a comment, yes... And then realizing it wasn't that serious, I 'unlooked'. Did you miss that part? Or is this just you always wanting to have the last word?

LOL. You should have unlooked and before making that comment. Or did you forget the saying that says "look before you leap".

And no, this isn't about me having the last word. Its about you throwing shades where its not needed.

Favolly:
Of course you are a NLer... Still, that's just one vote amongst thousands

Who else besides Joe cares about such a thing? Abeg not many people want to be that deep on top miss NL matter. It's not that serious

Then if its not that serious why did you make the comment saying ivvy will win if it wasn't a polarity contest or something of sort? You should have looked away, like thousands did?

freecocoa:
People's rights like right to freedom of association.

It's not so much a dead horse as we all know that with time, comes change.

I explained 'people's right' in this context, above. Having a right to choose whom to associate with, cannot be compared with abusing a minor.

Yes with time comes change, but that change can be accepted or rejected.

Freedom of association to me also translate to having the right to associate with minors, even abusing a minor, after all, that's what the context of 'freedom' really mean. The right to do whatever you want. That's why we have punitive measures to prevent the over use of ones right.

How can you tell beyond reasonable doubt that her decision, doesn't stem from morality or religion? there are policy reasons, which go beyond simple moral reasons, my dear.

Morality comes to mind again, who says because a woman is feminist, means she wants more than one husband?

Well that's for her to know, since I can't read minds, but however, her decision, is her decision, and who says because a woman is feminist, doesn't mean she want more than one husband, its her choice, its her right to choose whether to marry more than two men, but what's stopping her? The law.

And it is legal to beat people up because their skin is different? Am I missing something here?

You tell me, I believe you watched the videos and saw the news...

No, social contrast doesn't apply here, because, a person's right to freedom of association, is being trampled on, social contrast applies in bigamy, not in issues of hömosexuality.

What are you harping about? Social contract applies in bigamy and doesn't apply to homosexuality? How skewed does that sound? What makes it okay for a man to marry a man, and what makes it not okay for a man to marry more than one woman?

Its also a person's right to associate with more than two women, just like its a man's right to associate
with another man. You're sounding very very bias I must tell you!.

And now, we know that, people can be born gay or choose to be gay, the fact that you may not understand or have have not understood it, doesn't/shoudn't make it criminal.

JAye! Just like people can be born polygamist or choose to be polygamist, the fact that you may not understand or have have not understood it, doesn't/shoudn't make it criminal.

freecocoa:
My argument is not whether the law in Nigeria criminalises hömosexuality or not, it is that the law is flawed.

When your laws trample on people's rights, then it should be complained about.

Then how is it flawed? Because it trample on peoples right, right? Don't the law in some states in the West trample on peoples right by preventing them from smoking weed?

Favolly:
Bia, leave all these grammar... I don talk my own finish

Like Nairalanders care about the difference between brilliance and intelligence

By nairalanders, I believe you mean me also. So, I care!.

freecocoa:
Dude try and read to comprehend, if you don't understand, you ask questions.

Never did I say marriage was between a man and woman in the West, quote me right please. I said TWO PEOPLE.

Careful, so you don't make a f00l of yourself trying to deride me.

Oh sorry for that, an honest mistake. So if the law makes marriage a union between two people in the west. The law here makes homosexuality illegal. That's just the way it is. Same way the law here makes it legal for a man to marry more than one wife.

Our laws are our laws, your laws are your laws, plain and simple. You don't see us complaining about your laws, so why should you complain about ours?

freecocoa:
No, it is not what it is, before you are Africans, you are humans first, so your 'africanness' or whatever, shouldn't not infringe on people's rights.

Lemme understand your premise, what do you mean by 'peoples rights?'

On the issue of referendum, I won't argue with you on that because like we know, religion/culture influences us as a people more than it should.

If truly you know this, why beat on a dead horse?

Really? Your right to lo choose whom to love, can be interpreted to mean you are free to sexually abuse a minor? Really?

Yep. Why not? That's why I asked you above to explain to me what you meant by 'peoples right'. So I can draw from your premise.

There is every reason to criminalise polygamy because such marriages occur mostly when the woman is young and it might be reasonably determined that exploitation and coercion are involved in polygamy, more often than free choice(btw, it is mostly men who marry more than one partner, so the system isn't balanced).

So what if the woman isn't young? And what if the woman doesn't feel exploited and coerced in anyway?

Ah yes! The emboldened brings feminism to my mind. So, what stops a woman from marrying more than one man? Its a free world isn't it? Or isn't that the american saying? Oh yes, bigamy comes to mind.

Apples and oranges here, imply context.

When did we start hearing of the bill? The one that people are calling El-rufai's head for? A so called pastor even declared him a corpse, Enforce fundamental human rights indeed, in nigeria? Oh! Please.

Be that as it may, the bill will be passed and there's absolutely nothing the pastor or his foolish flock can do about it.

Oh don't be so smug, there isn't fundamental human right even in the West, I've seen videos of how some people are beaten just because their skin is different.

This is not a matter of the west having their own ways, this is about being human, it has nothing to do with anybody's culture or religion, how hard is that to get?

Of course it is, that's why we humans can't get whatever we want. Social contract comes to mind again.

It was once our culture to kill Twins, why did we let go of that?

Yes because we learned there's a perfectly good reason why twins are born, it was scientifically proven and explained. We didn't understand this, that's why we killed twins.

Favolly:
Chai! I'm just seeing that you compared Miss world competition to Miss NL

LOL!

No? What's the difference if truly I made such a comparison?

Favolly:
If people have already decided on who they'll vote for at nomination stage when we can only assess their pictures, why not?

You should know the nigerian society is one that graciously believe in seeing and hearing, without finding out if what they see and hear is true or are facts.

That aside though, I know Ivyy. She's a really smart lady... And you can quote me for future reference

Smart according to you right? Lol. There's a fine line between being smart and being intelligent. Same way there's a fine line between being brilliant and being intelligent.

postmann:
I knew it would be a huge bone for her to get her teeth around.

So many questions to put before her but it was pointless. You were takin care of business at her end.

LOL. I even asked her why polygamy is criminalized, she said the law in the West made marriage a union between one man, and one woman, if that is so, how come men and men are getting married? That's according to civil society, according to her.

ivyy:
I guess you'd find out

So really, how are you?

Why find out later, when we could start finding out now?

I'm cool like that. Thanks for asking, you?

ivyy:
Nope. By being intelligent, confident, humble and pretty
How's you?

Then the question is, how intelligent are you?

Favolly:
For now, yes

At least they haven't been drilled yet..

So you think that's enough to draw your conclusion from?

If its about being pretty, I believe Agbani wouldn't have won Miss World.

Favolly:
Ivyy would easily win if this was real life or if this wasn't a popularity contest...

*Unlooking

Based on what, just being pretty?

postmann:
Can you tell me any country whose laws has no religious or cultural shade in its constitution?

A very viable question you just asked. Even the West, once upon a time reveled in religious laws and doctrines.

freecocoa:
Yea, I do know that and I'm telling you that, deriving our laws from religion and tradition is flawed because contrary to what you believe about both advocating for social justice, the laws of religion and tradition doesn't advocate for equality, which is what social justice is about.

Even at that, still, what is, is what is. That's why we are who we are, we're Africans!.

Yea, social contrast comes to mind, but have the individuals being governed surrendered their freedom on the issue, or are being subjected to give into some beliefs based on some religion and culture? That we don't care for? Whatever happened to your right as a human to choose whom to love?

I tell you, should a referendum be conducted about the issue of homosexuality, it will be dead on arrival. I gave you this reason before.

The emboldened usually give way to abuse. Your right to love an individual might involve loving a child.

No one is shoving anything down your throats, you are only being told to live and let live, there is absolutely no justifiable reason to criminalise hömosexuality.

Same way there is absolutely no justifiable reason to criminalize polygamy in the West.

Remember I said, you can't really argue in favour of social contrast because not everyone is on board with the law and as for the case of Yerima, there was a victim involved (a minor), so why compare apples and oranges?

Apples and oranges are fruits aren't they?

Almost is all, there is Muslim, then there's christians, what about the others? Let's not even point out the inequality and wickedness religion promotes.

That's why there is the law, which enforces fundamental human rights. I'm sure you know churches are being closed same as mosques. Have you heard about the bill El-Rufai plan on implementing? Ostracizing public preaching and noise making.

My dear, what is obtainable in U.S.A is not obtainable in Nigeria. The West have their ways of doing things, we have ours. Its that simple. If homosexuals here don't like it, they can move abroad. Simple.

freecocoa:
The Nigerian constitution says that, the government of the federation or of a state, shall not adopt any religion as state religion.

Both the government of the federation and the state made it emphatically clear that homosexuality is outlawed.

You should know I said derive our constitution from traditional and religious laws, I never said states adopt any religion. Mind you, I'll have you know Sharia law, is enshrined in the constitution of Nigeria.

By virtue of the above, the constitution should not be based on religion nor should it on culture, since we all have different cultures and culture evolves, but it's not news that our government falls into religious traps.

By virtue of what I said, the constitution should be derived from sources that bothers on equality and social justice, and religion and traditional sources advocates that.

We all have different cultures, yes! That's true, that's why we all have to leave some of our practices and come together and leave as one. I believe its called Social Contract.

If culture evolves, the culture of another man sleeping with another man should not be shoved down peoples throat.

Please don't make unimformed statements, how do you compare hömosexuality to pick pockets and criminals? I just told you that the law on hömosexuality is flawed.

You miss my point. The law on homosexuality is not flawed because it stem from what I've been trying to tell you. So its criminal here in Nigeria. Anything strange is vigorously frowned upon.

Homosexuals are seen as criminals here, same way pick pockets and paedopiles are.

Not everyone in nigeria gives a hoot about your traditions or religion, your religion doesn't have to be mine, just as your culture doesn't, so why should the law that governs you and I, be based on some religion? Which religion exactly? Since we can't adopt a particular one and we are free to practice any?

Yes that's true, that's why the concept of Social Contract come into play. I'm sure you heard how Nigerians reacted when Senator Yerima moved the motion enabling people to marry 13 year old girls.

The major religions in Nigeria are Christianity and Islam, almost all Nigerians are christians or moslems, even I was born a christian.

So, I need you to know that the ways of the West, is not the ways of an African, particularly, a nigerian. We have our laws, you have yours. The West shouldn't make it their business to try to get us to accept everything they do, because they can.

falconey:
you dont need to quote people asking them to vote , it is already on your siggy and her link is there, some people hate it e.G myself. Let me choose whom to vote for dont convince me.

to the managers ,divide yourselves move to a different section each day, quote people relating to their topics,motivate, be friendly and encourage them. Before they quote you their eyes must gaze vote mizzy with attractive colours e.G red,blue etc in your signature. Spread to every section the forum is very big

Lanicky, I hope see what I was trying to tell you?

freecocoa:
No, I don't understand why it is criminalised in Nigeria(and the other places it is), I dare say, there is no justifiable reason why it should be.

Good. It is criminalize in Nigeria because
The nigerian society is as much as it is traditional it is also religious, and we derive our laws from this two sources which speak vehemently against homosexuality.

]No you don't, because you have no reason to.

Be that as it may, I'll still say the West have no reason to shove homosexuality down our throats, if the way we (as nigerians) treat homosexuals is frowned upon by them, then may be they should take a look at how we treat pick pockets and other criminals. Then you'll ask yourself, how come they're not criticizing us about the way we treat criminals, but criticize us about the way we treat homosexuals?.

The laws of a civil society(as regards marriage)are structured to assume that marriage is a union between two people, anything other than this, creates a situation the law can not handle.

The law in nigeria speak vehemently against homosexuality, civil society, traditionalist, religious folks and others frown at it.

The law in Nigeria is not the law in the West. They should know this and stop meddling in affairs that concerns them not.

freecocoa:
You do understand why bigamy is criminalised where it is, right?

And you understand why homosexuality is criminalized where we are right?

You don't see us going abroad and trying to get the West to institutionalize bigamy.

Just curious, why is bigamy criminalized in the West?

skarlett:
Noted

skarlett:
That may be a tad extreme like throwing away the baby with the bath water although I agree its hypocritical to not practise what you preach

Extreme? It is saying it the way it should be said.

Easier said than done

Cool.

This doesn't stop some of our teenagers today, does it?

Yes it doesn't. That's why I believe religion should be thrown in the trash. Parenting, that is good parenting has nothing to do with religious doctrine.

naptu2:
Benjy
[img]http://4.bp..com/_XdP6Lp2ceqY/TJ9a_ax1iEI/AAAAAAAAcvQ/7RJ5S4Fi2yM/s1600/t4.PNG[/img]

[img]http://4.bp..com/_XdP6Lp2ceqY/TJ9bAH1iOOI/AAAAAAAAcvo/6OEfR69Tf08/s1600/t1.PNG[/img]

Exacta! Sorry, exactly, before a professor comes running correcting my spelling. Lol.

Iamlegend, this is one of the few objective nigerians we have in this country.

Thumbs up bruv, I knew you wouldn't disappoint. Do I have your support to vote for this Miss nairaland contest?

TreasurePhoenix:
@ the first emboldened , nobody said it is a battle field Jonathan.

And nobody said you're an associate prof.

@ the second emboldened, of course , people do that everyday, even i am not left out, it is different when you abbreviate, but you become a dunce, i mean a dundie united when the word you wana use as a replacement has the same numbers as the original word.

And of course, people spell and misspell
everyday, you do it too, I doo it too, so what makes abbreviating right and misspelling wrong, especially when the English dictionary didn't abbreviate you as u and and as an or n?

Yes it takes typical nigerian professor not to know that.

I hope that with these few points of mine , i have been able to convince you UNCLE JONATHAN

CAPISCE?

With this few point of mine, I hope I have been able to convince you, and not to confuse you, that you are MAMA PISS

There is god ooo

Kapisce

IamLEGEND1:
Yeah,i assumed. Bt that seems legit since you said 'Nigerians',a tag under which you fall.....so I don't see why the whip you used on other's backs shouldn't be used on yours.

I believe you know "assumptions is the mother of all Bleep-ups" when not proven? And nope I never said "nigerians" I said most nigerians or something like that...

Mimzy & her team are responsible for their actions,not how people perceive them....a quote courtesy of some long-dead modafucka whose name escapes me.

OKAY.

skarlett:
Is abstinence from sex and all other sexual activities before marriage as decreed in the Bible realistic and necessary?"

I came up with that because I feel the bible have made a lot of people overly hypocritical . . .I also find the rule stiffening and ridiculous. . .

Different strokes for different folks. This falls under "practice what you preach". Anybody who clearly feels estranged as a result of practicing a religion that clearly speak against sex out marriage should stop adhering to the tenets of that religion.

A christian can't say he's a christian and be seen committing adultery, that's hypocrisy of the highest order.

If you feel your religion is stopping you from doing what you love to do, then do away with it. Plain and simple.

It's 99.99% impossible to abstain from everything sexual before marriage, all things being equal i.e so long as he/she doesn't have some sort of disability. . .
and it doesn't have to be penetrative sex(a lot of people that squawk against premarital sex do a lot of sexual acts asides from vaginal sex so it doesn't really make sense). And since it isn't possible to completely abstain then why do people preach about it or act judgmental especially when men/women are sexual beings?

True that! Sex is a beautiful thing, a wonderful thing, anybody who's been in there may find it difficult staying out there. Its all on the hypocritical nature of most religious folks.

However, I will however say if he or she is a christian/Moslem, then they shouldn't be heard or even seen having sex, because their religion clearly speak against having sex and sexual immorality outside marriage.

Let's look at it from an extensive view away from the constraints of religion - we are supposed to mate as soon as we hit puberty. If we were not supposed to have sex before marriage then don't you think we are supposed to hit PUBERTY only after we've gotten married or what's the essence of having a reproductive organ ready for action at 17/18 years old but kept inactive for so many years?

Em, engaging in sex when one hits puberty might mean some aspects of paedophilia. We know some girls reach puberty at the age of 13 and even younger than 13.

MUVA:
Self proclaimed "madster" of nothing.

Better nothing than anti-nothing.

Ma nigger!. LOL

IamLEGEND1:
So now we're back to playing hide & seek.Admitting you were never objective in ur views & then turning around to say you've transcended sentiment because you are no 'average' Nigerian.
Still, I'll humour you-the misconception that we revel in propaganda.....wasn't that the genesis of this whole convo?

Em, I never admitted to anything, I mainly said most nigerians are hardly objective or something like that, you assumed I did. How is that my fault? Lol.

Yes that it is, it is. I've asked for evidence to assert your claims, yet non was given, isn't that enough premise for one to believe your team revel in propaganda?

TreasurePhoenix:
Nobody asked you for epistle oga Goodluck Jonathan.
Your oversized ego will not allow you to just humbly accept a simple correction.
Nobody is above mistake. It can happen to anyone. It is spelt Capisce and not Kapisce, stop trying to justify your error.

Mistakes are often corrected when one is writing an exam or in a class, or even submitting a dissertation. This here is plain fun, so I don't see where I made any mistake in delivering my message. Lol.

I suppose you go about correcting those monikers who spell you as u and those who spell and as an? Etc Cos everything falls under what you just said right?

Mr Professor, please know that your correction is not needed and accepted here. As long as my message is understood, its fine by me.

Kapisce?