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 Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 2:04pm On Jul 27, 2017 |
blackbriar:wow confusion really reigns in rcc, I understand that, there couldn't be anything else brocab: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:43pm On Jul 27, 2017 |
blackbriar:I quoted where I got it from, but apparently most rc's like to lie or don't read what is posted According to Roman Catholicism: "Mary sits on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14).show me from the Bible where Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son" on the Fathers throne Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 11:17am On Jul 27, 2017 |
rcc say mary had no original sin, which is said nowhere in God's written word, however God's word says all have sinned: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 11:07am On Jul 27, 2017 |
rcc say that Mary is the ever virgin mother of God, that is no where said in the Holy Scriptures, and how is mary ever a virgin when she had children after Jesus? Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes,.... Luke would not have said "she bought forth her firstborn son"", if she didn't have other sons after: Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. (refer to Mat 13:55 above) 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 10:53am On Jul 27, 2017 |
some more for u on Mary, emman Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings about Mary Mary holds a very high position in the Roman Catholic Church, so much so that she is like a goddess. Even though Roman Catholics will not agree with the statement of goddess-like abilities, the fact remains that Mary is highly exalted. According to Roman Catholicism, Mary is "the all-holy ever-virgin Mother of God" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, hereafter referred to as "CCC" 721), the "Queen over all things" (CCC 966), our "Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix" (CCC 969), who is "full of grace" (CCC 722), the "Mother of God and our mother" (CCC 2677), the "new Eve" (CCC 726), and the "seat of wisdom" (CCC 721). She had no original sin (CCC 508), and never committed sin (CCC 493). She is second only to her Son" (Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, par. 66) and sits "on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14). In fact, "no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother" (Pope Leo 13th, Octobri Mense). It was Mary who "crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world" (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus). It is she who "delivers our souls from death" (CCC 966), and "continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation" (CCC 969). "Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her divine son for men, made atonement for the sins of man," (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma4, Ott, page 213). Therefore, we can "entrust all our cares and petitions to her" (CCC 2677), "give ourselves over to her now" (CCC 2677), "pray to her" (CCC 2679), and have devotion to her (CCC 971). She was "taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven" (CCC 974). When speaking of the Church, "we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary," (CCC 972). In her, the church is holy (CCC 867). "Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity" (CCC 967). Finally, in paradise the church gathers "around Jesus and Mary" (CCC 1053). The Bible says, "Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." (1 Cor. 4:6). Has the Roman Catholic Church exceeded the scope of scripture with its teaching about Mary? Absolutely, yes! by Matt Slick Summary of Roman Catholic Teachings about Mary 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 10:47am On Jul 27, 2017*. Modified: 11:04am On Jul 27, 2017 |
blackbriar:roman catholicism claim that Mary sits on the right hand of the majesty on high, that is the Father emmanuelex1:Nil u say emman, u say roman catholicism doesn't have Mary sitting on the right hand of the Majesty on high, u keep saying lies, they come naturally to u Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. satan is the father of lies-liars @bold, means: when the devil speaks a lie he is speaking naturally, u take after him-your father According to Roman Catholicism: "Mary sits on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Pope Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 14). 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: "How Can One Witness To A Jehovah's Witness?" by johnw74: 6:44am On Jul 27, 2017*. Modified: 7:02am On Jul 27, 2017 |
(Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mat 3:16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (Mat 3:17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: .... (Isa 48:16) Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. (1Co 12:4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (1Co 12:5) And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. (1Co 12:6) And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all (2Co 13:14) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. ^^^ Of course false jw don't know the Holy Ghost and cannot have communion with Him. they think he is just a thing-a power. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:51am On Jul 27, 2017 |
rcc say that Mary sits "on the right hand of the majesty on high" that is no where said in the Holy Scriptures, however the Bible shows that Jesus Christ sits "on the right hand of God" Mat_22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? Mar_16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Col_3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb_8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 1Pe_3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. rcc pervert the truth of the Bible as do false jehovahs witnesses and many others. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:27am On Jul 27, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:I wasn't talking about tyndale but about you, your name calling-accusing, reminded me of u doing that before, and being wrong it was u that was the liar-false accuser so one who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones, the pot calling the kettle black etc. I will leave bro to straighten u out on tyndale. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:58am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:u baba don't believe the Bible, but u quote from it, and u falsely accused: Babacele:  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:43am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:The pharisees hypocricy was in the things they said, not of things in the scriptures Christ never once said a word against the Holy Scriptures, of course u baba just lie over and over again |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:29am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:lying comes naturally to you, oh great accuser baba: Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:25am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:no, not fanatical or contradiction, it's believing the Bible, u don't, is why God has allowed your god(satan) to blind u: 2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:19am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:baba, U obviously r not reading the articles i post which would show u how u r being fooled, but the choice is yours to make, heaven or the lake of fire: Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:13am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:u don't believ the bible and say it is blasphemous, and yet u think u r a Christian, now that's confusion with a capital C. God told us-humans not to kill, so obey Him. God told Israel to kill those in the land that He had given them, He is God-not human, so obey Him, I would obey God, u baba would not, but then u r only christian in name. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 1:03am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Bro, God through Timothy is talking about the rcc here, priests are forbidden to marry, and there are days where rc's are to abstain from meats 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:49am On Jul 26, 2017 |
baba, more on rcc and Mary Are Roman Catholicism and Christianity the same thing? No, Roman Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is properly defined by certain doctrines that are revealed in the Bible. It is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. Mormons believe in Jesus, but their Jesus is a brother of the devil in the pre-existence. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the Archangel. So, just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. This is why the Bible tells us who Jesus really is--God in flesh, creator of the universe. Likewise, there are essential doctrines; and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian. What are those doctrines? The Bible tells us. Let's take a look. There is only one God, and you are to serve no other gods (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8}. Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1, 14; 8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4). Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:14). Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:1-2; 5:1-4). The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the scriptures (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:8-9). God is a Trinity (Matt. 28:19; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14). Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Matt. 1:25). So, someone who is a true Christian will believe these things and not violate them. Roman Catholicism violates two of them (#1 and #4). First of all, by its practice of promoting Mary (and the Saints) to the level of God-like capabilities, they break the commandment to have no other gods before the true and living God. In Roman Catholicism, they say that Mary is the mediatrix (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 969); Mary made atonement for the sins of man (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, page 213); Mary is the subject of preaching and worship (Vatican Council II, p. 420); etc. Also, Catholicism violates the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith alone. Paul the apostle, for example, tells us in Romans 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." But Roman Catholicism denies that and says, " . . . so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments," (CCC, par 2068). Also, consider this: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9). So, even though Roman Catholicism claims to be Christian and that it is the one true church, it violates the essentials of the Christian faith. It goes beyond what is written in God's word (1 Cor. 4:6). It denies the sole and true sovereignty of the living God by promoting prayer to and the worship of Mary. Also, it denies justification by faith alone in Christ alone. It is not a Christian church. by Matt Slick Are Roman Catholicism and Christianity the same thing? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:29am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:ha ha, that's all u can say to the truth of bro's post brocab: 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:25am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:duh, what has daesh and bokoharam got to do with the true God slow down and think, and try not be so confused. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 12:07am On Jul 26, 2017 |
Babacele:u say God was wrong in having Israel kill those in the land that he gave them, u say the Bible-God's inspired Holy Scriptures is wrong, by your own words, truly Jesus Christ is not your Lord, oh blind one u say Mary should be prayed to u say Mary is greater than Jesus because she told him to turn water into wine u have a priest-a man forgive your sins u pray before statues and pictures of Mary the list is endless These verses are speaking of the rcc The latter times are the times since Christ (1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (1Ti 4:2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (1Ti 4:3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. Your unbibical doctrines are from seducing spirits-devils speaking lies in hypocrisy, well u baba r a good example of that priests are forbidden to marry does your church still have days where u r 2 abstain from meats 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 11:45pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:Bro knows u won't go to Heaven when you don't agree with God, as in: His telling Israel to kill those in the land that He has given them. And bro knows that u won't go to heaven when u don't believe God's inspired word. How is it u don't believe the Bible but u use it when it suits u, thats what false jw and other cults and sects do as well. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 11:37pm On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:more lies from lying baba, post where I said that confusion, that confusion is typically yours Babacele:Deuteronomy 7:1-2 God tells Israel to destroy the people in the land that He has given them I agree with whatever God says, but you baba say God is wrong or the Bible is wrong, or both, do u know what u r saying? it doesn't look like it oh confused one 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 10:44am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:That reminds me of this: Ubenedictus:It seems rc's cannot stop lying and false accusing, taking after their god: Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 10:36am On Jul 25, 2017 |
brocab: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 10:10am On Jul 25, 2017 |
baba, the rcc say Mary is the queen of heaven, however the queen of heaven is a false god, that was worshipped long before Mary lived Jer_7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 9:44am On Jul 25, 2017 |
baba, according to rcc itself, u r not going to Heaven Dear Catholic, do you know for sure if you are going to heaven? If you're a Catholic, do you know for sure if you are going to heaven when you die? As a Protestant, I can say that I know I am going to heaven. This isn't arrogance. It is confidence in the work of Christ and not my own work. It is confidence in the ability of Jesus to save me completely, to have fulfilled all of the Law perfectly, and to have cleansed me from my sin totally. Therefore, because all my hope and trust are in him and not what I can do, I know I am going to heaven. If my salvation depended on my goodness and abilities in any way, then I can't have any confidence that I will make it to heaven because I am an imperfect sinner. But God is perfect and requires holiness (1 Pet. 1:16). This is why God provided Jesus who fulfilled the Law (Matt. 5:17), including loving God (Deut. 6:5) and loving your neighbor (Lev. 19:18). In other words, Jesus did everything that is necessary for us to do. This is why we should trust Jesus alone and not Jesus and our goodness or Jesus and our church or Jesus and our ability to love God and our neighbor. But, what about you? Do you have that confidence? If not, perhaps it is because of the requirements that the Roman Catholic Church has stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. “The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 1257). “Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 846). “This sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation for those who have fallen after Baptism, just as Baptism is necessary for salvation for those who have not yet been reborn,” (CCC 980). “The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation, (CCC 1129). “Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation,” (CCC 1816). “The authority of the Magisterium extends also to the specific precepts of the natural law [i.e., 10 Commandments, CCC 2070], because their observance, demanded by the Creator, is necessary for salvation,” (CCC 2036). Are you as a Catholic able to keep all the requirements that the Roman Catholic Church says are necessary for salvation? We both know you can't. Are you sincere, and do you go to confession? If you go to confession, then that means you are not keeping the law perfectly; otherwise, you would not need to go to confession. So, the very fact that you go to confession demonstrates you're not able to live up to the standard of God's requirement. But since the Roman Catholic Church says you are to keep the Law to be saved, please consider this: Gal. 3:10, "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law.'” James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." God's standard is perfect. We are not. This is why we need to trust Jesus alone, so that we are justified by faith. What about you? Are you doing that? Or, are you trusting in Jesus and your ability to keep the Law? Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Rom. 4:1-5, "What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." by Matt Slick Dear Catholic, do you know for sure if you are going to heaven? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 9:25am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:I never wrote anything supporting Sharia and Daesh, but lying and accusing comes naturally to you baba, my support was only for God and anything He has said and done: johnw74:u baba, said deut 1:1-17 was about the killing of innocent women and children, u r confused continually, oh lying accuser |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 7:45am On Jul 25, 2017 |
^^^ sounds like a typical believe anything unbibical rc 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 7:15am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:Is there the killing of innocent women and children in Deut 1:1-17? or is this your continual confusion? is anyone innocent except the Lord Jesus Christ? don't we all have sin passed down from Adam and Eve? If God told whoever to kill all the women and children wherever, then what God say's is correct. u baba don't believe God's inspired Holy Scriptures, and u baba put yourself above God by implying he was wrong, or that His Inspired scriptures are wrong. u obviously don't believe the Bible or God, but you believe the uninspired rcc teachings and men. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 6:49am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:r u referring to the history article on the origin of the rcc? it is true hitory, u should read it again, is st. augustine mentioned there? me thinks u r mixing up what different people have posted, your confusion comes from hating God's inspired Holy Scriptures-the Bible u haven't posted the foul words this pentecostal used,  2 more points of confusion there |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 3:17am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Ubenedictus:If the rcc collected the Holy Scriptures and put them together into a book, so what many others have done the same, the rcc didn't write those scriptures, as didn't the others, they were in existance for thousand's of years Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? Roman Catholics often say that it was their church that gave us the Bible. They sometimes claim this when defending their "Sacred Tradition," so that they might support extra-biblical teachings such as purgatory, penance, indulgences, and Mary worship. They often say the only way the Christian church knew what books are to be included in the Canon of Scripture was because it was revealed by word-of-mouth in the early church, that is, by the tradition of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, this argument implies that tradition is superior to Scripture. Of course, we are not saying that the Roman Catholic church teaches that tradition is above Scripture. But when Sacred Tradition is claimed to be the thing by which Scripture is given, then tradition is inadvertently the thing that gives blessing and approval to the Bible. Heb. 7:7 says, "But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater." The unfortunate psychological effect of saying that Roman Catholic tradition is what gave us the Bible is that it elevates their tradition to a level far greater than what is permitted in Scripture. In fact, it is contradicted by scripture: 1 Cor. 4:6, "Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." The Bible tells us to obey the Word of God--to not go beyond the written Word (1 Cor. 4:6). Unfortunately, the problem with an elevated status of Roman Catholic church tradition is that it results in various justifications of its non-biblical teachings such as prayer to Mary, purgatory, indulgences, penance, works of righteousness, etc. Because it has deviated from trusting God's Word alone, it has ventured into unscriptural areas. Nevertheless, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible? No, it did not. First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution, and official church gatherings were very risky in the Roman Empire due to the persecution. Catholicism, as an organization with a central figure located in Rome, did not occur for quite some time in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter. Second, the Christian Church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. This is a very important point. The Christian Church recognizes what God has inspired and pronounces that recognition. In other words, it discovers what is already authentic. Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me . . . " (John 10:27). The church hears the voice of Christ; that is, it recognizes what is inspired, and it follows the word. It does not add to it as the Roman Catholic Church has done. Therefore, it is not following the voice of Christ. Third, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament which is the Scripture to which Christ and the apostles appealed. If the Roman Catholic Church wants to state that it gave us the Bible, then how can they rightfully claim to have given us the Old Testament which is part of the Bible? It didn't, so it cannot make that claim. The fact is that the followers of God, the true followers of God, recognize what is and is not inspired. Fourth, when the apostles wrote the New Testament documents, they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church. To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself that worked through the Apostles. Fifth, the Scripture says, "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (2 Pet. 1:20-21). The Bible tells us that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the very nature of the inspired documents is that they carry power and authenticity in themselves. They are not given the power or the authenticity of ecclesiastical declaration. Conclusion The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27). It didn't give us the Word of God. Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God. by Matt Slick Did the Roman Catholic church give us our Bible? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Catholics Pray With The Rosary, And Bow To Mary's Statue? by johnw74: 2:50am On Jul 25, 2017 |
Babacele:Christ is the author and finisher of the "one faith", not of multible faiths, which leaves the rcc and other churches of heresy, cults and sects etc. out Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit. In the same way you were called to share one hope. Eph 4:5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, there is one body(the True Church) who r those who pray to God, and not to idols and others, u r not part of it there is one Spirit, who lives in the body's of True Bible believers, u do not have Him there is one hope, the hope of salvation through Faith in the Christ of the Bible, u do not have it there is one Lord, the Lord of all the Father have given Him, He is not your Lord there is one faith, the faith given by God to believers through knowing the true Christ there is one baptism, it is by immersion for the true Church(body of Christ) and not by sprinkling of water as with some pagans 1 Like |
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