₦airaland Forum

Babacele:
in short are you saying the bible is the same as Jesus?

Of course a ridiculous question from u baba,
the Bible is God's Holy Inspired Scriptures, Jesus is a person-the Saviour of the World

There is a difference between "God's word", the things God said
and
"God's Word" who is God

one is God's words, the other is God Himself

God and the Word is God

but the phrase "word of God" is in nearly all cases referring to the God inspired words that he spoke to and through His Prophets



God didn't appear to many men in the Bible
but very many times the "word of God" came to man saying....

1Ch 22:8  But the "word of the LORD"(God) came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.

"word" there is not referring to God but to a matter of God, to words of God


"word" in that verse comes from the Hebrew DaBaR which means:

word
H1697
דָּבָר
dâbâr
daw-bawr'
From H1696; a word; by implication a matter (as spoken of) saying, sentence, somewhat to say, speech, X spoken, talk, thought,
Total KJV occurrences: 1438

Babacele:
the bible contains some words of God. and God is still speaking to men. what book did Moses or Abraham read before God spoke to them?

how is that in answer to my post?

johnw74:
So u don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word ,u believe the Bible doctrines are mostly Egypt influenced and not God inspired.

No wonder your have pagan beliefs of praying to people who have died etc.

Babacele:
The bible was written by men and consists of the old testament and the new testament and by implication Judaism and Christianity .

The bible was written by men by inspiration of God:
2Ti_3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Babacele:
So it contains Jewish history, mistakes, inspirations ,biases and God's intervention etc

i c, God inspired mistakes in the Holy Scriptures,
u haven't a clue.
But deliberate changes have been made since then, in the nwt for one,
and then there are others who go against the message of the Bible such as rcc who pray to Mary and others,
and who say that Mary a human is divinity.

Babacele:
Jesus is the word of God made long after the Torah had been in use.

u abas say the Word of God was made, and was made after the torah
it's amazing watching the confusion of u Bible haters

Babacele:
No amount of deifying the Bible can replace Jesus the word of God.

Is someone trying to replace Jesus with the Bible?

Babacele:
As at the time Jesus talked in Luke 4:4 there was no book called the Bible. And John was clear by saying that' the word was made flesh'. it is clear enough.
The is a collection of holy scriptures which has been subjected to different reviews by men.

The Holy scriptures were once not called the Bible, so what does that matter?
today we call the Holy, God Inspired Scriptures, The Bible

u must read this

Isaiah 9:6, Jesus the Mighty God

"For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," (Isaiah 9:6, New World Translation)

The words of Isaiah 9:6 are one of the most powerful prophecies testifying plainly and clearly that the promised Messiah to come would, in fact, be God Himself born in human flesh. The child that is born, the son that is given, is to be called "Mighty God." Jehovah's Witnesses, however, contend that the Messiah is not really called God here, at least not in the sense that biblical Christians mean by this, because He is called mighty God rather than almighty God. They will concede that Jesus is a "god" in the sense of being a very powerful, spiritual being, but He is not Jehovah, the one and only almighty God. This is a very important distinction for Jehovah's Witnesses. It does not, however, hold up very well under scrutiny.

Israel has only one God and is forbidden to call on any other God. Isaiah is abundantly clear:

"'You are My witnesses,' declares the Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah], 'And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me,'" (Isaiah 43:10)

The word for "God" here is the simple Hebrew "el." The most basic word for "god" and the same word used of the Messiah in Isaiah 9:6. If Jesus is the Messiah, He is the "Mighty God" or the "el gibbor," and He is to be called upon as such. But there is no other true, living God besides Jehovah. There is no "el" but He, and His people are surely not to call on a false god for their deliverance. Thus, even standing on its own, Isaiah 9:6 is rather clear that the Mighty God on whom they are to call is Jehovah and not some lesser god that would by definition be a false god since there is only one true God and never will be another. Still, Isaiah didn't stop writing at 9:6. In the very next chapter he says:

"Now in that day the remnant of Israel, and those of the house of Jacob who have escaped, will never again rely on the one who struck them, but will truly rely on the Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah], the Holy One of Israel. A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God," (Isaiah 10:20-21).

Who are they returning to? To the Lord, Jehovah, the one true God of Israel. Here He is plainly called the "mighty God" [el gibbor] in the very same prophetic context as Isaiah 9:6. Indeed, only a chapter apart from it! Jehovah is the Mighty God. The Messiah is the Mighty God. There is only one God. The conclusion here is obvious. And the other prophets concur that Jehovah is the "mighty God." Jeremiah, for example, pronounces:

"who shows loving kindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God [el gibbor]. The Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah] of hosts is His name," (Jeremiah 32:18).

And Zephaniah lauds in similar terms:

"The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty [gibbor] one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing," (Zephaniah 3:17).

Jehovah is certainly "almighty," but He is also rightly called "mighty" by the prophets. He is the living God. He is the true God. He is the only God upon whom we are to call. He is the only savior. Jesus is the "mighty God" upon whom we are to call. He is our eternal savior. Jesus is Jehovah God.

by Luke Wayne
Isaiah 9:6, Jesus the Mighty God

xaggar:
Continued...

But let us suppose that the phrase "El Gibbor" (Mighty God) is actually applied to Messiah, rather than to One who makes/anoints the Messiah. Would this mean that Jesus is Yahweh his God, the God who anointed and made him the Christ, the Messiah? (Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) Absolutely not! First, we should note that this name is not given to the Son of Yahweh until after he has been given by Yahweh to Israel. It has no application to Jesus in a pre-human existence.

In keeping with the rest of the scriptures, the application of the phrase "EL GIBBOR" to the Messiah, usually rendered as "Mighty God", would only mean that the Anointed One is given power and might by the only true God. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty);
Genesis 30:8 (mighty);
Genesis 31:29 (power);
Deuteronomy 28:32 (might);
1 Samuel 14:15 (great);
Nehemiah 5:5 (power);
Psalm 8:5 (angels);
Psalm 36:6 (great);
Psalm 82:1 (mighty);
Proverbs 3:27 (power);
Psalm 29:1 (mighty);
Ezekiel 32:21 (strong);
Jonah 3:3 (exceeding).

The expression "Mighty God" (el gibbor) is applicable to Jesus in a similar, but greater sense, as it was applicable to the Babylonish kings spoken of in Ezekiel 32:21, where the same expression in the plural is used. In that verse, the phrase is not translated as "Mighty Gods", but it is usually translated as something like, "The strong among the mighty." (King James Version) Applying a similar rendering to Isaiah 9:6 would give us "strong one among the mighty", or, if it is to be rendered as a separate title, "mighty one of power." Jesus is indeed a mighty one of power, having been given all the plenitude of might bodily that he needs to carry out the purposes of his God and Father. (Colossians 2:9,10) Jesus, since his resurrection, has also become the "everlasting father," "the life-giving spirit," since it is through, by means of, him that the human race is regenerated / made alive. (Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45) Those regenerated in this age are regenerated by tasting of the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5), receiving the holy spirit as an earnest, a down payment of that which is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14) None of this means that Jesus is his God and Father, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- John 17:1,3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3.

I rest my case. (Please don't be lazy, take your time and read through. Plus, use your bible for the verses quoted/stated). Our stand and belief on this issue is not flimsy, but based on the truth as guided by God's Holy spirit.

The Bible verses are good but your understanding is not,
mighty God is the one God, Yahovah-the Word,
not one of your 2 god's, mighty god Jesus and almighty god jehovah

Yahovah is the mighty God:

Psa_50:1  A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Jesus is the mighty God;

Isa_9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.



Yahovah is Lord of Lords, a mighty God, and the Word-Jesus Christ is LORD OF LORDS, the same mighty God who is about to destroy the armys of the World in a yet to come event.

Deu_10:17  For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Rev 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

double post

Babacele:
Mr God ,mr judge. U know nothing about being born again. It is not some exclusive clubs meant for some privileged to be flaunt at some poor folks but God alone knows who qualifies.
The word of God is Jesus and not the Bible. John1:1-1.

Ha ha, now don't go trying to teach us the Bible, u know little about it

The Word of God here is: God the Word who became the man Jesus Christ
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word of God here is: the Holy scriptures-the Bible:
Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Babacele:
From Genesis to Revelation there is no word like Bible. pls try and learn .

u c that bro, there is no word Bible in the Bible, so what does that mean, that it doesn't exist? baba a bit 2 confused

Babacele:
you know nothing about this religion and I'm here to upgrade you.

Catholics pray to God through Mary and the saints.

In math 6:5-6 Jesus said when we pray ,we should go inside our house and say ' our father' and no where did he mention that we should pray to Jesus or say ' in the mighty name of Jesus' as we do in public places of worship presently. So does that mean we are all doomed to hell for exercising Christian initiave knowing that the Son and the Father are now one?
Please , let stop all these religious politics.

That's part of your problem.

Babacele:
1. earlier on this thread while employing foul words 2. Mr Pentecostal,you quoted Leviticus where Moses gave the " thou shall not worship another God" law to the ignorant Jews unlike we poor Catholics that we so much rever God that we beg holy people and saints to help pray to Him despite all our numerous direct communion with the most merciful universal Father.

The same unpredictable Lord told Moses to adopt what modern pharisees would term paganism to promote the faith in Him , like using the ash of burnt heifer for cleanliness Num19:16-18, or the raising of the bronze snake which has great significance with Christ crucifixion as shown in the verse below:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake
in the wilderness, so the Son of
Man must be lifted up,
John 3:15
that everyone who believes in Him
may have eternal life.

3. So how do you know it wasnt God that guided the Catholic church?

4. Do you really understand?

1. post the foul words I spoke, now don't forget u hear,

2. and I'm not pentecostal, but lying and accusing is natural to u Bible rejectors

3. that's easy, I know because of all your unbibical beliefs

4. not much, but a whole lot more than u do

And if I added all you know to all I know,
I still wouldn't know any more, ha ha

Babacele:
most world beliefs and biblical doctrines have Egypt influences- from Moses to Jesus. A pharaoh birth the idea of 1 God long before Christianity so know that; Christ Jesus was taken to Egypt for safekeep from Herod and grew up there; Moses was raised in the court of Pharaoh; the new testament was birth by St Augustine in Egypt, and so many instances including the foundation of christainity -concept of Sol or son of God.

All these are not important to Christians but how to imbibe the beautiful doctrine of love as preached by our Lord Jesus Christ.

So u don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word ,u believe the Bible doctrines are mostly Egypt influenced and not God inspired.

No wonder your have pagan beliefs of praying to people who have died etc.

Babacele:
when the Catholic church has done the real difficult work marrying it with managing both the political and social realities of the different influences and consequently subsequently preserving the scriptures and the Christian traditions from which the bible was compiled, including reclaiming Jerusalem, Spain etc it is very easy for you children to deny the 2000years journey of your parent- the Catholic church that inherited the Apostolic mandate.

The Bible didn't jump from heaven but has history and has been review ed where certain books were deliberately removed for reasons best known to the church fathers at the different church councils. So how do you condemn the doctrine of Mary when you know nothing about it? So because the church councils are not recorded in the Bible means they are satanic?

The only Christian organization in the world that has the largest original collections of Christian scriptures, traditions and history even long before the printing technology and Bible was birth is the Catholic church and there is nothing any of you can do about it. Sorry.

@bold, I know it's not Bibical, and so do u, who cannot post Bible verses showing that Mary is divinity, and is to be prayed to.

I know that u believe rcc over God's word.

xaggar:
Continued...

But let us suppose that the phrase "El Gibbor" (Mighty God) is actually applied to Messiah, rather than to One who makes/anoints the Messiah. Would this mean that Jesus is Yahweh his God, the God who anointed and made him the Christ, the Messiah? (Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) Absolutely not! First, we should note that this name is not given to the Son of Yahweh until after he has been given by Yahweh to Israel. It has no application to Jesus in a pre-human existence.

In keeping with the rest of the scriptures, the application of the phrase "EL GIBBOR" to the Messiah, usually rendered as "Mighty God", would only mean that the Anointed One is given power and might by the only true God. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty);
Genesis 30:8 (mighty);
Genesis 31:29 (power);
Deuteronomy 28:32 (might);
1 Samuel 14:15 (great);
Nehemiah 5:5 (power);
Psalm 8:5 (angels);
Psalm 36:6 (great);
Psalm 82:1 (mighty);
Proverbs 3:27 (power);
Psalm 29:1 (mighty);
Ezekiel 32:21 (strong);
Jonah 3:3 (exceeding).

The expression "Mighty God" (el gibbor) is applicable to Jesus in a similar, but greater sense, as it was applicable to the Babylonish kings spoken of in Ezekiel 32:21, where the same expression in the plural is used. In that verse, the phrase is not translated as "Mighty Gods", but it is usually translated as something like, "The strong among the mighty." (King James Version) Applying a similar rendering to Isaiah 9:6 would give us "strong one among the mighty", or, if it is to be rendered as a separate title, "mighty one of power." Jesus is indeed a mighty one of power, having been given all the plenitude of might bodily that he needs to carry out the purposes of his God and Father. (Colossians 2:9,10) Jesus, since his resurrection, has also become the "everlasting father," "the life-giving spirit," since it is through, by means of, him that the human race is regenerated / made alive. (Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45) Those regenerated in this age are regenerated by tasting of the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5), receiving the holy spirit as an earnest, a down payment of that which is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14) None of this means that Jesus is his God and Father, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- John 17:1,3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3.

I rest my case. (Please don't be lazy, take your time and read through. Plus, use your bible for the verses quoted/stated). Our stand and belief on this issue is not flimsy, but based on the truth as guided by God's Holy spirit.

some case
Too much confusion there for me to bother much with, but if u want me to post scriptures showing that mighty God refers to Yahovah as well as Jesus, then just ask.

mighty god jesus and almighty god jehovah are the two false god's of false jw's

But for Christians, mighty God and almighty God are two names-titles for the one true God, two persons for this example, one God.

xaggar:
Continued...

Usually, a singular name given to a person or thing is not given a translated meaning as a series of names, as has been done in Isaiah 9:6. The general trend is that a “name” such as this given to a human or a thing is describing attributes of God/Yahweh, and by giving such a name to a human or thing is not understood to designate the human or thing as being God/Yahweh.

For example, when Jacob called a certain altar by the name, El-Elohe-Israel (Genesis 33:20), this could also be read as a series of "names", as most do in reading Isaiah 9:5, giving it the meaning: “God, The God, Israel.” Applying the same logic that most apply to Isaiah 9:6, we could then proclaim that this altar is God. In reality, such a "name" is meant to be understood as a sentence speaking of the God of Israel.

Therefore, we should realize that he was not saying that the altar was “God,” or that the altar was “the God,” nor that the altar was Israel, but instead that the name of the altar was meant to say something about Jacob’s (Israel’s) God. Thus, this name is usually given a meaning something like: “God is the God of Israel,” or probably more likely, the first EL should be understood with the general meaning of might, strength, power, etc., thus: “Powerful is the God of Israel.”

So what about Isaiah 9:6? Likewise, the singular name should be understood as a sentence describing the God of Messiah rather than as a series of names that are applied to the Anointed of Yahweh. Some editions of the JPS give this name the following meaning:

“Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler (or Prince) of peace.”

From this perspective, this singular name that is given to Messiah would be describing the only Most High, Yahweh, the Father of Messiah, not the Messiah himself.

duh, of course Father God is the Father of Messiah, 2 persons there
and Father and Messiah is God, 1 God there

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Plenty more like that, just ask, and then do your twist on them

xaggar:
His Name Shall Be Called
Insight into the meaning of the "Name" (singular, not names) of the messiah in Isaiah chapter 9:6.

Isaiah 9:5 - For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name (not names) is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; - Jewish Publication Society translation. (This is Isaiah 9:6 in most translations)

"Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even forever. The zeal of Yahweh of Hosts will perform this. -- World English Bible translation."

As we read it from the Jewish Publication Society's (JPS) rendering, we do not find any designation of Jesus as being "God". The JPS renders it via a transliteration of the "name." Most translations ignore that the verse is speaking a "name" (singular), and change the singular "name" to a series of names, with the evident design to make it appear that Jesus is being referrred to as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father", so that the idea that Jesus is Yahweh can then be read into this. If one recognizes this, then one can see how this argument is circular, saying, in effect, because we believe that this name is not really a singular name as it says it is, but rather a series of names that are applied to the Messiah, then we believe that since Jesus is called "Mighty God", then Jesus is Yahweh.

so u don't believe the bible and twist and change it, I already know that's what false jw do,
there are many scriptures showing that Yahovah-Jesus is God,
ask and I will post them for u 2 disbelieve and to twist and change.

Ha ha a lot of lip service passed down by men-church but all false
read again the accurate history posted.

baba, u r still running away from the issues here: "praying to Mary", "divinity of Mary", "not posting scriptures asked for", and u keep changing the subject,

back with more truth for u later

xaggar u r confused, I see u have twisted and changed God's word there as false jw do,
and u keep changing the subject,
but these r the verses I posted:


Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.




2Pe_1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel(God with us).

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

xaggar:
Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance. (Isa 43:11; 45:21) He was the Savior and Deliverer of Israel, time and again. (Ps 106:8, 10, 21; Isa 43:3; 45:15; Jer 14: He saved not only the nation but also individuals who served him. (2Sa 22:1-3) Often his salvation was through men raised up by him as saviors. (Ne 9:27) During the period of the Judges, these special saviors were divinely selected and empowered to deliver Israel from foreign oppression. (Jg 2:16; 3:9, 15) While the judge lived, he served to keep Israel in the right way, and this brought them relief from their enemies. (Jg 2:18) When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials.—Heb 5:7; Ps 28:8.Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.” (Isa 49:26; 60:16)

In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ (1Jo 4:14), Jehovah’s provision for salvation, who is therefore exalted as “Chief Agent and Savior.” (Ac 5:31) Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called “our Savior,” even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah. (Tit 1:4; 2Pe 1:11) The name Jesus, given to God’s Son by angelic direction, means “Jehovah Is Salvation,” for, said the angel, “he will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21; Lu 1:31). This name points out that Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus Christ.

“A great crowd” is shown at Revelation 7:9, 10 attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb.
The green highlights is a future occurrence ; yet it is clear that there is a distinction between God and Christ. This answers those who claim that Christ on earth was a man but in heaven he is God Almighty.

The ransom sacrifice is the basis for salvation, and as King and everlasting High Priest, Christ Jesus has the authority and power “to save completely those who are approaching God through him.” (Heb 7:23-25; Re 19:16) He is “a savior of this body,” the congregation of his anointed followers, and also of all who exercise faith in him.—Eph 5:23; 1Jo 4:14; Joh 3:16, 17.

Yahovah:

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


Jesus:

Act_4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

^^^ there is Salvation in none other than: Yahovah-Jesus

2Pe_1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.




Yes, salvation and Redemption is due to God and the Lamb, to Father and Son,
who of course are two persons, and these two persons are God.
not two god's a mighty god and a almighty god as false jw believe.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.
Mar_12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

^^^ I have already heard false jw's ridiculous twisting of that and other verses. 

Isa 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel(God with us).

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

There are many more.

(3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.

(4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows:

(1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

(2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete.

Babacele:
after 2000 years of leading the Crusade, no gate of hades has prevailed against the Rock: the Catholic church despite all the challenges . That history you cant wish away . And stop wasting your time on assumptions and stop feeling like God. Those who worship God do in truth and spirit and only God knows who qualifies.

Go to uncharted terrains e.g Afghanistan to preach the gospel not to Catholics who have paved the way. Let God judge us.

Stop just saying things that u were taught, and pick up your Bible to see if they are true

The Rock is Jesus Christ, not Peter, and certainly not the rcc:

Look Here





What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Babacele:
after 2000 years of leading the Crusade, no gate of hades has prevailed against the Rock: the Catholic church despite all the challenges . That history you cant wish away . And stop wasting your time on assumptions and stop feeling like God. Those who worship God do in truth and spirit and only God knows who qualifies.

Go to uncharted terrains e.g Afghanistan to preach the gospel not to Catholics who have paved the way. Let God judge us.

what is this mumbo jumbo u reply to bro with,

where are your bible verses showing u r to pray to Mary and others who have died?
where are your bible verses showing that Mary is divinity?

not interisted in just your own words and church doctrine, God's word is that which is wanted


The jehovah's witnesses sect also hate the truth of the bible as does rcc and all sects
false jw prefer magazines and elders telling them what to believe
just as rc's prefer the catachism priests and nuns telling them what to believe
so much rc doctrine oposes the Bible, no wonder you don't want to read it

The Bible is the only place u will find the truth of God:

2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Babacele:
What impossibility can be like giving birth to God? And what portion of the bible God said Mary was temporal? This same God that called Mary blessed among women and that she is highly favored(Lk1:28) ,and Holy Ghost filled Elizabeth that called her mother of God(luke1 :42), whose divine position is being recognized by Catholics for all generations (luke1:48), who can make Christ hour come even when it wasn't yet time(John2:5)

There is nothing impossible with God, the miracle of the Word of God becoming a human is God's miracle, not Mary's, a human being:

Luk 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 
Luk_1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


duh, Mary was a human being, truly human beings are temporal, when believers die it is just their Spirit that returns to God who gave it, at the resurrection believers who have died and those still alive are given a new immortal body:

Ecc_12:7  Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(1Co 15:50)  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(1Co 15:51)  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(1Co 15:52)  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(1Co 15:53)  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


(1Th 4:14)  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(1Th 4:15)  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(1Th 4:16)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(1Th 4:17)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Yes Mary was blessed among women, it was her that God chose to be the Mother of the Messiah,
that doesn't make her more than human, it doesn't make her divinity.
Mary gave birth to the Son of God, Jesus. That same Jesus-the Word who created Mary and all that exists.

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

My mother had me do things before I wanted to do them also, doesn't make her part of divinity
All miracles are of God, not Mary a human

u say the rc recognize Mary as divinity, that means zero to me, show from the Bible where Mary is divinity, your examples don't do it.

Babacele:
if Judaism with all the Mosaic laws is what would redeem us ,why did God came as man Jesus through Mary?
Why did he Christ have to establish his church on St Peter who has the Apostolic mandate which no gates of hades has been able to prevail against in the past 2000 years(Math 16: 13-20).

Jesus came so that mankind can be saved through faith in Him alone
what has this to do with your claim that we are to pray to Mary, and your clain that Mary is divinity?

you haven't yet given Bible verses for the divinity of Mary, and that mary is to be prayed to,
I hope u are not running away from these points, what u say as your opinion or as your church doctrine is not good enough unless they line up with scripture.

brocab:
"No I suppose we won't-another Catholic bites the dust, the blind is leading the blind-these so called believers can never come to the truth, the Catholic's can't see pass the man made images.
{John 20:25-29} Thomas said: unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails were-and put my hand on His side-I will not believe it.
{V 29} Jesus said unto him, Thomas because you have seen Me, you had believed, Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed.
The Catholic Church runs with Thomas, he and the Church, need images to believe.
And this my friend tells us the Catholic's aren't strong enough in faith to accept Christ fully to believe.

Thomas weak point was disbelief, he did come to believe though:

Joh_20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Babacele:
the Pentecostal generation that is calling her envelope or demon?

What confused babble are u saying there?

Babacele:
Despite the divinity of Mary

Mary is not part of the Godhead, quote Bible verses to show what u say is true

Babacele:
we catholics direct all our prayers to God Almighty and only beg Mary and the Saints to help us pray to God because they are holier.

Enough of the garbage from your mouth, post Bible verses showing we are to beg Mary and saints to pray for us

Babacele:
We are not like the old testament folks who didn't know God but believed in stones,woods etc as their God.

truly u still have god's of stone and wood in your buildings:

Lev_26:1  Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Babacele:
God himself honored- if you like call it worship- Mary

What complete rubbish and lies, God never worshipped Mary

Babacele:
You lots that splash and worship the pictures of your G.Os every where

Can you ever stop lying, show how I splash and worship the pictures of my G.Os every where

Babacele:
if you want to know about the Rosario, ask questions and stop spewing ignorance and judging.

Here we have another lying false accuser in babacele,
I can back up what I say with Bible verses, u lying false accuser baba cannot.


I posted in truth and gave Bible verses to support what I said, and u baba call that spewing ignorance and judging,
lying and falsely accusing is typical of false christianity, you are part of that club

Babacele:
According to St Stephen, God does not stay in any place built by men, so why do you go to your church to look for God? We poor Catholic sinners pray to God through the mother of God Mary who is in heaven with God and the saints.

Rc's pray to Mary, we Christians pray directly to God,
if we have trouble with what to say, God helps us, not Mary:

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

^^^ one mediator between God and men, and it's not Mary


when you pray to Mary to interceed for you, neither Mary or God hears u,
the Bible tells us to pray to God and no one else:

Mat 6:9  After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven,....

Mat 6:6  But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Fathe which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

baba post Bible verses showing that Mary is to be prayed to, emman couldn't do it.

Babacele:
who gave birth to God in man flesh -Jesus? Or Elizabeth ,filled with the Holy spirit, was wrong to have called Her " the Mother of my Lord Lk1:43"? Even when his hour has not come ,didn't Mary make it happen in that wedding in Canaan, and has that power to intercede, to give birth to and nuture God in flesh( making the impossible possible) taken away from Holy Mary? Is there any difference in the divinity of God and the mother of God?

Unbelievable, what did Mary do that was making the impossible possible?

Of course there is a difference between the divinity of God and Mary
God has always existed, is eternal, and the creator of all that exists
Mary was a temporal human being, a part of God's creation

Mat_28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

^^^ do u notice Mary isn't mentioned there?

Babacele:
Bible grew out of Christianity and not the other way and the catholic church made it happen. For example the new testament was translated, copied and made available from Egypt by St Augustine ,a catholic priest.
The world would be judged by love and not religious claims.

The Bible is God's inspired word, one of the first writers of the Bible was Moses,
that was long before the catholic church

Don't just post your your own beliefs here, give Bible verses for the things you say
you can say the cow jumped over the moon, but I want to see the truth

brocab:
Is this it-is this all we get-where's the part Emman said we have to pray to Mary?

we will never see those verses

Babacele:
After the Annunciation ei the message of God's willing to manifest in flesh through birth to Mary by Angel Gabriel , the Holy Mother accepted this huge opportunity to redeem humanity by say: " behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy world...." Lk 1:38

again, Mary didn't redeem humanity,

Isa_60:16  Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Tit_2:14  Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Rom_3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Eph_1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Babacele:
When Mary visited her cousin Elizabeth in Lk1:40-43, her divine presence - holy spirit-was felt even by the baby in Elizabeth's womb who said: " whence is it to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" ,to which Mary replied thus:
My soul magnify the Lord,......for he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Lk46-48.

All Christians of Faith acknowledge that Mary was-is blessed by God.

Some acknowledge it by praying to her, and by kneeling befor a statue of her,
but that isn't Bibical acknowledgment, that's more like satanic acknowledgement,
worshipping the created, rather than the Creator.
And kneeling before, or standing before a statue and praying is worship and idolatery.

Lev_26:1  Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Babacele:
So who are the generations calling Mary blessed today if not Catholics ?

All generations of Christians have acknowledge that Mary was blessed by God

rc's do more than call Mary blessed:

they pray to her, have statues of her,
put her before the Father by praying 10 hail Marys to one our Father etc.
all un Bibical, and satanic imo

Babacele:
After 2000 + years of laying the Christian foundation through the apostolic mandate Christ gave Peter and which the early church fathers transferred down to the Catholic clergy through the papacy ,including making the bible available to the whole world ,it is easy for overfed grandchildren in the Christian faith to come around to launch ignorant attacks on their fore parent - the Catholic church.

The catholic church isn't the fore parent of Christians of Faith, God is our Father.
what are these ignorant attacks on rc that u speak off?

Babacele:
These ignorant lots many of who can't survive a 100 years of hades after the death of their founders, always found it hilarious throwing blasphemous hauls at the very important foundation of the Christian redemption- the virgin Mary.

Really, do Christians throw blasphemous hauls at the virgin Mary finding it hilarious?
will you show an example?

And Mary isn't the foundation of Christian Redemption, that one is God:

Psa_19:14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Babacele:
These folks who question the special intervention role and divinity of Mary the mother of Jesus, run to their pastors/ daddy GOs to intercede for them before God. Mary Mother and these GOs who is more divine?
Ladies and gentlemen let us take a journey through the Bible where the Catholic simply adopted Mary's acceptance speech to work with God to save humanity from the peril of the adamic sin.

Mary didn't work with God to save humanity, God-the lord and Saviour Jesus Christ did that:

Tit_1:4  To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Act_4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

u baba should be spreading God's word and not false doctrines.

emmanuelex1:
ALRIGHT I WANTED A HEALTHY DISCUSSION TO SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE BUT YOU RESULTED TO INSULTS. NEVERTHELESS I WILL SHOW FEW OF MY EXPLANATION AND WILL STOP AT THAT BECOS I DO NOT WANT TO BE TEMPTED TO INSULT YOU FOR CALLING ME DEVIL AND A LIAR. GOD BLESS YOU AS YOU READY THE BELOW.

CATHOLIC RECITATION SHOWING JESUS IS THE ONE WE ACTUALLY WORSHIP - HERE ARE THE MAIN PRAYERS OF THE ROSARY
• In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
• I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sin, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. (Said before the Rosary)
• Our Father, who art in heaven hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Said before each decade)
• Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. (Said after each decade)
• O my Jesus, forgive us of our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. (Said after each decade)

RECITATION CONCERNING MARY

• Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. (Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:41-42a, Luke 1:48),
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42b)
Holy Mary, Mother of God (Luke 1:43)
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (Luke 2:35, John 2:3-5 )
JOHN 2:3-5 ==== 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” “Woman,why do you involve me?” Jesus replied.“My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
The "Hail Mary" written above has the scriptural references after each line. Some Evangelicals feel that it is blasphemous to say that Mary is "Holy." Peter quoted Jesus, "you shall be holy because I am holy’" (1 Peter 1:14-16). We don't think Evangelicals would think that is blasphemous. Jesus said that human beings shall be Holy, because Jesus is Holy, and also Mary is Holy because Jesus is Holy. Her holiness is derived from him. Mary's obedience to God and closeness to Jesus made her holy. Our nearness to Jesus makes us Holy.
We are asking Mary to pray for us. She is praying the same way a pastor might pray for you or me. We think she is a kicking prayer warrior than our Catholic Priest or Pastor or even better than Evangelical pastors.

I HAVE BEEN PACKAGING ALOT OF EXPLANATION FOR YOU GUYS BUT EXPECTED NO MORE REPLIES FROM ME BECOS OUR DISCUSSION IS NO MORE HEALTHY DUE TO INSULTS YOU HAVE RAINED ON ME. MAY GOD BLESS US ALL, IN JESUS NAME AMEN.

emman, one more time that's just a copy and paste of your above posts, r there many more to come

where are the Bible verses showing u r to pray to Mary

emmanuelex1:
ALRIGHT I WANTED A HEALTHY DISCUSSION TO SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE BUT YOU RESULTED TO INSULTS. NEVERTHELESS I WILL SHOW FEW OF MY EXPLANATION AND WILL STOP AT THAT BECOS I DO NOT WANT TO BE TEMPTED TO INSULT YOU FOR CALLING ME DEVIL AND A LIAR. GOD BLESS YOU AS YOU READY THE BELOW.

CATHOLIC RECITATION SHOWING JESUS IS THE ONE WE ACTUALLY WORSHIP - HERE ARE THE MAIN PRAYERS OF THE ROSARY
• In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
• I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sin, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. (Said before the Rosary)
• Our Father, who art in heaven hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Said before each decade)
• Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. (Said after each decade)
• O my Jesus, forgive us of our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. (Said after each decade)

RECITATION CONCERNING MARY

• Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. (Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:41-42a, Luke 1:48),
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42b)
Holy Mary, Mother of God (Luke 1:43)
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (Luke 2:35, John 2:3-5 )
JOHN 2:3-5 ==== 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” “Woman,why do you involve me?” Jesus replied.“My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
The "Hail Mary" written above has the scriptural references after each line. Some Evangelicals feel that it is blasphemous to say that Mary is "Holy." Peter quoted Jesus, "you shall be holy because I am holy’" (1 Peter 1:14-16). We don't think Evangelicals would think that is blasphemous. Jesus said that human beings shall be Holy, because Jesus is Holy, and also Mary is Holy because Jesus is Holy. Her holiness is derived from him. Mary's obedience to God and closeness to Jesus made her holy. Our nearness to Jesus makes us Holy.
We are asking Mary to pray for us. She is praying the same way a pastor might pray for you or me. We think she is a kicking prayer warrior than our Catholic Priest or Pastor or even better than Evangelical pastors.

I HAVE BEEN PACKAGING ALOT OF EXPLANATION FOR YOU GUYS BUT EXPECTED NO MORE REPLIES FROM ME BECOS OUR DISCUSSION IS NO MORE HEALTHY DUE TO INSULTS YOU HAVE RAINED ON ME. MAY GOD BLESS US ALL, IN JESUS NAME AMEN.

ummm emman, still again and again that's just a copy and paste of your above posts

where are the Bible verses showing u r to pray to Mary

emmanuelex1:
ALRIGHT I WANTED A HEALTHY DISCUSSION TO SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE BUT YOU RESULTED TO INSULTS. NEVERTHELESS I WILL SHOW FEW OF MY EXPLANATION AND WILL STOP AT THAT BECOS I DO NOT WANT TO BE TEMPTED TO INSULT YOU FOR CALLING ME DEVIL AND A LIAR. GOD BLESS YOU AS YOU READY THE BELOW.

CATHOLIC RECITATION SHOWING JESUS IS THE ONE WE ACTUALLY WORSHIP - HERE ARE THE MAIN PRAYERS OF THE ROSARY
• In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
• I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sin, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. (Said before the Rosary)
• Our Father, who art in heaven hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Said before each decade)
• Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. (Said after each decade)
• O my Jesus, forgive us of our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. (Said after each decade)

RECITATION CONCERNING MARY

• Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. (Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:41-42a, Luke 1:48),
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42b)
Holy Mary, Mother of God (Luke 1:43)
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen (Luke 2:35, John 2:3-5 )
JOHN 2:3-5 ==== 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” “Woman,why do you involve me?” Jesus replied.“My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
The "Hail Mary" written above has the scriptural references after each line. Some Evangelicals feel that it is blasphemous to say that Mary is "Holy." Peter quoted Jesus, "you shall be holy because I am holy’" (1 Peter 1:14-16). We don't think Evangelicals would think that is blasphemous. Jesus said that human beings shall be Holy, because Jesus is Holy, and also Mary is Holy because Jesus is Holy. Her holiness is derived from him. Mary's obedience to God and closeness to Jesus made her holy. Our nearness to Jesus makes us Holy.
We are asking Mary to pray for us. She is praying the same way a pastor might pray for you or me. We think she is a kicking prayer warrior than our Catholic Priest or Pastor or even better than Evangelical pastors.

I HAVE BEEN PACKAGING ALOT OF EXPLANATION FOR YOU GUYS BUT EXPECTED NO MORE REPLIES FROM ME BECOS OUR DISCUSSION IS NO MORE HEALTHY DUE TO INSULTS YOU HAVE RAINED ON ME. MAY GOD BLESS US ALL, IN JESUS NAME AMEN.

emman, yet again that's just a copy and paste of your above posts

where are the Bible verses showing u r to pray to Mary