₦airaland Forum

blackbriar:
oga read the post ,mary's grace was freedom of original sin(the immaculate conception) not actual sin,for indeed all have sinned, if not jesus would have been given birth as a sinner(by original sin).

numbers 23:19.

Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

ha ha, the son of man there is not referring to Jesus, but to humankind
God is not a man that he should lie or the son of man that He should repent
Jesus was sinless and had nothing to repent off

u briar don't believe God:


1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

satanic rcc likes to raise mary up and put God down

blackbriar:
oga read the post ,mary's grace was freedom of original sin(the immaculate conception) not actual sin,for indeed all have sinned, if not jesus would have been given birth as a sinner(by original sin).

numbers 23:19.

ha ha ha, the immaculate conception is another rcc satanic doctrine, this one was from pius 1X also
and of course is not Bibical
Jesus being conceived in mary by God was free from sin, but
there is no mention of mary herself being conceived without sin in the Bible
and why would there be
it's just more rcc rot of putting mary before Christ-God.

Babacele:
from the beginning anybody reading this thread knows that I have supported all my claims with different Bible verses and not even a scripture outside of it but each time you guys either dodge, insult , and twist .

One thing you cannot take away is the divine motherhood of Mary . If God Himself honors Mary , whatever you say is irrelevant. Those who call Mary dead, dog, sinner, and all sorts of names can't be part of the generations calling Her Blessed(Luke1:48).

Allow God to judge us poor sinners as we have never claimed to be saints .

oh mr liar-false accuser, where are the Bible verses u have given showing
that mary is to be prayed too
that mary is divinity
that mary is free from original sin, etc. etc.

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Ubenedictus:
so you think christianity began in the 16th century?

seeing as u don't have understanding i will say it again:
"truly those who pray before statues and paintings etc. etc. etc. are not part of the body of Christ,"

Ubenedictus:
he isnt interested in knowing anything, he is happy in ignorance and would rather abuse what he doesnt understand than make research.

It is time to end the discussion.

he supports his position with Bible verses,
u cannot

blackbriar:
hail ,thou art highly favoured.

remember the angel was a messenger delivering a message, so this was God directly saying HAIL THOU ART HIGHLY FAVOURED.

u say an angel talking to mary is God directly talking to mary
that's just like rc saying when u pray to mary to pray to God for u,
then u are praying directly to God

it's amazing how u rc's can believe these confused and foolish things u r taught

blackbriar:
hail ,thou art highly favoured.

remember the angel was a messenger delivering a message, so this was God directly saying HAIL THOU ART HIGHLY FAVOURED.

duh, highly favoured doesn't mean free from original sin,
i asked for Bible verses not for rc foolishness

blackbriar:
it is not found explicitly in scripture but flows from the idea of luke 1:28 and luke 1:42.

if mary had had original sin ,Jesus would have had original sin also.

rubbish, mary was not God in the flesh but a mere human and as such was born with the passed down sin nature
rc's don't believe God, and believing God-Faith, is what it's all about:

1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Heb 7:26  For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Babacele:
The body of Christ is one ,so when we pray to God through Mary or St Peter ,whatever they loose on earth or heaven , God approves and there is nothing like anybody retreiving the reward. The greatest honor to Mary is God allowing Her to give birth to and nurturing Him ,and Her divine motherhood is eternal. Those who cannot come to terms with this mystery should allow God judge us for won't everyone stand before God to give account of his/her life?

@bold underline, u should think of that, but u don't, u quote words just for show and u don't believe them, u say anything

@bold, u make up lies daily, this time u make up a lie saying that "when we pray to God through Mary or St Peter ....God approves"
show Bible verse of that being true, but no it's just u making up lies again, and involving God in your lies


Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Babacele:
Matthew 25:31-46 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW) Jesus Will Judge the World 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left. 34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. 36 I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ 37 “Then the people who have God’s approval will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 “The king will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’ 41 “Then the king will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me into your homes. I needed clothes, and you didn’t give me anything to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t take care of me.’ 44 “They, too, will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or as a stranger or in need of clothes or sick or in prison and didn’t help you?’ 45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’ 46 “These people will go away into eternal punishment, but those with God’s approval will go into eternal life.”

baba, do u see there in bold where your lying and false accusing is leading you
to the same place as those who didn't do anything for the needy

and what do those verses have to do with the discussion of praying to mary?
of course u cannot give Bible verses to support your satanic doctrines
so you just post anything

Babacele:
The body of Christ is one ,so when we pray to God through Mary or St Peter ,whatever they loose on earth or heaven , God approves and there is nothing like anybody retreiving the reward. The greatest honor to Mary is God allowing Her to give birth to and nurturing Him ,and Her divine motherhood is eternal. Those who cannot come to terms with this mystery should allow God judge us for won't everyone stand before God to give account of his/her life?

truly those who pray before statues and paintings etc. etc. etc. are not part of the body of Christ,
u baba r greatly deceived.

Babacele:
So Mother of God is now a Dog ,what more disrespect do you have?

and once again, of course u cannot stop lying and false accusing, taking after your father the devil:

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Babacele:
thank you ,if you can insult the mother of God ,who am I?

u cannot stop lying and false accusing, taking after your father the devil:

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

brocab:
Yes a good question to ask? Show us in the bible-where Mary was excluded from Original sin?
Don't forget-Mary needed a savour-and if she was excluded from sin-she wouldn't need one.

It's so clear isn't it, but the blinded won't see it:

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ubenedictus:
Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct--as irrational animals do--will destroy them.
Jude 1:10

once again u have run out of argument, and only rot is left.

Ubenedictus:
Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct--as irrational animals do--will destroy them. Jude 1;10

duh mr lie, what is being slandered(your word) here is anti Bibical doctrines

Babacele:
It is obvious you don't believe in Jesus even though you flaunt His name, so how would not you disrespect the Mother of God? Thank you for the insults. By their fruits ye shall know them.

u have got nothing at all,
u can not support your doctrines from the Bible
and that is why u falsely accuse bro, but then u r just taking after your god in doing that

telling the truth concerning mary is not disrespecting her
but when u lie u r just speaking naturally, like your father the devil does

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


and yes by their fruits you will know them, they will pray to people,
they will pray before statues and paintings and so many etc's

Babacele:
so you don't believe Jesus ? don't be confused. I hope you know that Mary mother of God must be remembered by all generations (luke 1: 48)and so she is ever living ?

I repeat Jesus the final authority in Mat 22: 32-33
… 31 But concerning the
resurrection of the dead, have you
not read what God said to you:
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the
God of Isaac, and the God of
Jacob?’ He is not the God of the
dead, but of the living.”

u r mr confusion himself, i remember my first dog of about 63 years ago, but i don't pray to him

Babacele:
so who is the dead here , even after it has been established that He is God of the living and that holy people are ever living member of the Christ body on earth and in heaven?

Mr Pentecostal is Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Mary Mother still alive in Christ?
So has Transition changed the divine gift of these holy persons to pray for us even when Revelation tells us that the elders,angels and saints in heaven still pray to God?

why don't u follow there example and pray to God, instead of to them, who don't hear u

blackbriar:
like i said earlier....mary was full of grace(luke 1:28) grace from Original sin, which excluded christ from original sin.

dat was wat i wrote that and that has been my standing all along.

Luk 1:28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

mary was blessed among women because God chose her to be the mother of Christ
show from the Bible how that disolves her from original sin

brocab:
Brother you understood baba's question?
What is the confusion? What can't baba understand? It's simple, we pray to the Father, Jesus prays for us, and Jesus said pray for one another.
Baba's idea of prayer is unbiblical, baba prays "To" Mary or baba's begging Mary "To" pray for baba.
If babe was to pray for Mary-it still would have been unbiblical, Mary's dead, followed by the saints.
{Ecclesiastes 9:5} For the living know that they will die, But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

there confusion comes from their god satan

1Co_14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

peace bro

More on praying to mary and other people

The issue of Catholics praying to saints is one that is full of confusion. It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. However, the practice of many Catholics diverges from official Roman Catholic teaching. Many Catholics do in fact pray directly to saints and/or Mary, asking them for help – instead of asking the saints and/or Mary to intercede with God for help. Whatever the case, whether a saint or Mary is being prayed to, or asked to pray, neither practice has any biblical basis.

The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do many Catholics pray to Mary and/or the saints, or request their prayers? Catholics view Mary and the saints as "intercessors" before God. They believe that a saint, who is glorified in Heaven, has more "direct access" to God than we do. Therefore, if a saint delivers a prayer to God, it is more effective than us praying to God directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical. Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on earth, can "approach the throne of grace with confidence."

First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us. If Jesus is the ONLY mediator, that indicates Mary and the saints cannot be mediators. They cannot mediate our prayer requests to God. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father: "Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them" (Hebrews 7:25). With Jesus Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God listen to more closely than His Son? Romans 8:26-27 describes the Holy Spirit interceding for us. With the 2nd and 3rd members of the Trinity already interceding for us before the Father in heaven, what possible need could there be to have Mary or the saints interceding for us?

Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient. Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings with limitations. How could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of people? Whenever the Bible mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, and divination—activities the Bible strongly condemns (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-13). In the one instance when a "saint" is spoken to, Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-19, Samuel is not exactly happy to be disturbed. It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.

God does not answer prayers based on who is praying. God answers prayers based on whether they are asked according to His will (1 John 5:14-15). There is absolutely no basis or need to pray to anyone other than God alone. There is no basis for asking those who are in heaven to pray for us. Only God can hear our prayers. Only God can answer our prayers. No one in heaven has any greater access to God's throne than we do through prayer (Hebrews 4:16).

Babacele:
to we Christians there is nothing like death with the body of Christ ,and this mystery would continue to confound Sadducees and Pharisees .


In Math 22: 31-32 Jesus told the Sadducees thus
… 31 But concerning the
resurrection of the dead, have you
not read what God said to you:
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the
God of Isaac, and the God of
Jacob?’ He is not the God of the
dead, but of the living.” So was Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on earth when Jesus said that?

Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners .....

you mean to we rc's there is nothing like death
radical islam loves death as well as u

abraham isaac and jacob are not dead spiritually
that doesn't mean they can hear your prayers

God lives in believers and He hears our prayers directly

u don't have God's Holy Spirit, that is why u pray to other than God
however the others don't hear u,
even if u did have God's Spirit in u, the Holy Spirit doesn't relay prayers to others,
He rightly expects prayer to Him only


the reason u cannot give any Bible scriptures supporting your satanic doctrines is because
God's word does not support satanic doctrines


The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere encourages, or even mentions, believers asking individuals in heaven for their prayers.

Christians pray to God, heretics pray to people and angels
Heb 4:16  Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

First Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." There is no one else that can mediate with God for us

Babacele:
1.The Lord's prayer you quoted to counter my pointing out the Christian tradition of praying for each other when I " holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners". True or false?
2 . You said begging Mary to pray to God for us is unscriptural and that the only biblical prayer is the Lord's prayer.
3. Since we must obey scriptural commandments according to, and since we all pray to Jesus whereas He has given us a prayer formula. So please Mr Pentecostal stop dodging and being crafty by just quoting for us where Jesus said " pray to me Jesus " in the Lords prayer.

your posts to brocab are not clear, but i will make two points

1.there is a diffrence between praying for people and praying to people, such as mary
praying for people is good, praying to people(who cannot hear you) is stupid but more importantly it is unbibical
Christians pray only to God, not to people who have died, as rc's do

2.bro is right, begging Mary to pray to God for us is unscriptural, that is: it is unbibical

the rcc wrote their bible in latin,
was that so the people couldn't read it
and discover that their own church doctrines are not according to God's Inspired word

but even now that rc's can read the Bible in any language, they still prefer their unbibical church doctrines-lies that evil men have compiled

yes bro there is a time yet future when all who have died in Christ, and when those still alive will be caught up to Christ, and will some time after that sit on Christ's throne even as He sit's on His Fathers throne,
it sounds crowded but it's a metaphor meaning we will all be one, the saved in Christ and Christ in the Father

(1Th 4:16)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(1Th 4:17)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Heb_8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Rev_3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


mary will be among those believers that will be granted to sit on Christ's throne
-be one with Christ,
as Christ was granted to sit on Fathers throne, the one and the same throne as u pointed out

neither mary or anyone else sit's on Christs throne with Him at this time
pius 1X and rcc are wrong

14. We are then, it will be seen, very far from attributing to the Mother of God a productive power of grace - a power which belongs to God alone. Yet, since Mary carries it over all in holiness and union with Jesus Christ, and has been associated by Jesus Christ in the work of redemption, she merits for us de congruo, in the language of theologians, what Jesus Christ merits for us de condigno, and she is the supreme Minister of the distribution of graces. Jesus "sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high" (Hebrews i. b.). Mary sitteth at the right hand of her Son - a refuge so secure and a help so trusty against all dangers that we have nothing to fear or to despair of under her guidance, her patronage, her protection. (Pius IX. in Bull Ineffabilis).

roman catholicism has both Jesus and mary sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high
and Hebrews was quoted as reference

hebrews has only Jesus sitting on the right hand of the majesty on high, and not mary


pius 1X signature is appropiate: in Bull Ineffabilis

Bull further says: mary a refuge so secure and a help so trusty against all dangers that we have nothing to fear or to despair of under her guidance, her patronage, her protection

they leave Christ completely out of it, they will have their reward





@underline, ha ha more unbibical rubbish

emmanuelex1:
You are on your way, Keep lying to your self. You just enjoy argument even when you are ignorant of the subject matter. Before explaining the subject matter then to you and your friends who insulted me for delaying my explanation due to your inability to type the full recitation I requested. This is how you and your friends create argument online and stay online insulting people. If you want to truly change the doctrine go to Vatican or visit catholic priest close to you to discuss it. I wont message you again.

@bold, duh, is bro's comment about being on his way to the vatican, a joke or a lie?
but then i understand how u would literally believe it, just as u rc's believe anti Bibical garbage u are taught by rcc

@underline, how many times is it now that u have said that?

when rc speaks a lie he is taking after the devil and is speaking naturally

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

dictus, u rc's say mary is forever a virgin,
there are many verses showing u 2 be wrong,
and i have seen how u don't believe them and twist God's Inspired word,
which is calling God a liar


psalm 69 is a messianic psalm and Jesus quoted it twice concerning Himself

(Psa 69:4)  They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away.

(Psa 69:5)  O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

(Psa 69:6)  Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel.

(Psa 69:7)  Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.

(Psa 69:8]  I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

(Psa 69:9)  For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.


Joh 15:25  But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Joh 2:16  And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. 
Joh 2:17  And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

I am become an alien to my mothers children

God's word shows in many places that mary had other children,
it is so clear, and yet rc's twist and lie, giving those verses different meanings,
as they do with all Bible verses that show their doctrines to be satanic.

u can only go to the Father throuh Jesus, we cannot go through mary:
Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

salvation is only in Jesus, mary cannot save u:
Act 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

rc's don't abide in the doctrines of Christ, but in the doctrines of the rcc, they think they can come to God through Mary,
whereas Jesus said He is the only way to the Father,
they think they can pray to mary, when Jesus said this is how you should pray "Our Father"
they have not God-Father and Son:
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 

the prayers to God of all the saints are offered up to God:
Rev 5:8  And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

(Rev 8:3)  And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
(Rev 8:4)  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.


Psa 141:2  Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

the prayers to mary joseph and tom and dic and harry are not offered up to God

Christians pray to God, rc's pray to mary and many others, have a look here: https://www.nairaland.com/1087122/why-catholics-pray-rosary-bow/64#58933476

Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Jesus Christ(the Word of God in the flesh) was crucified so that we might have eternal life with Him,
but pagan rc's pray more to mary and other people and angels than they do to the Saviour

the rosary is ten hail marys to one our Father, repetitive praying is anti Bibical
even if mary could here u, praying the same thing once would be enough

even saying ten hail marys in a row over and over again, she still cannot hear u,
it's God through the Holy Spirit in believers that hears our prayers,
it's not the holy spirit of mary in us that takes our prayers to Father,
although i wouldn't be surprised if rcc thought it was

Ubenedictus:
visit a priest and ask him these questions .

Thanks

and yet again dictus runs away

Ubenedictus:
it actually is in the bible, gleaned from psalm, but since i am unwilling to continue a rather unproductive argument, i'll rather ask that write it down and add it to the issues you wish to ask a priest.

again no answers, just a lie