₦airaland Forum

Dexema:
All questions are answered at death. I hope the answers wud be worth it then.

Where were you before conception?... No where, you were not in existence.
Where will you be after death?... No where, you will cease to exist.
If you don't learn now, i don't think there will be any need to learn anymore.

dearpreye:
Bro, call it whatever. ..I won't engage with atheists when it comes to arguments. I can't stand them.

Then i take it you get emotional when someone fails to share your belief, why? ...does it mean your belief is based on your emotions??

So bro, Redemption from what??

dearpreye:
Hahaha. These guys keep going round and round. Your time with them shall be proven to be futile. They're almost beyond redemption!

Stop pouring water onto the feathers of a duck

Lol. . . this is when someone don't want to accept the fact he lacks what it takes to engage in a logical argument.

Redemption from what

IzonOwei:
so you have shifted the goal post from if at all God exists or which God created the universe...forget about which God...let deliberate on if at all God exists...

And why do you feel the creator must have another creator?......why??...

Exactly the same reason why you maintain the universe must have a creator.

So tell me how you got to know a god is in existence??
You are the claimant a god exists, so it falls on you to prove this claim. . .
So common.

You still have not pointed out which deity created the world/exists?

why you think that deity did it and not others?

How you got to know that deity did it?

How you got to know about that deity?

malvisguy212:
pleatton and DProDG you guys a very very ignorance and bias there is no single truth in you guys.

You see if there is anything i hate to tell anyone; it is that they are ignorant. . I don't use that word on people who disagrees with my ideology.
This post shows you are still using that deceptive straw man fallacy by misrepresenting other people's analogies. . . Now let me show you.

malvisguy212:
Morality is unchanging. There is a right and wrong;good and evil.as an atheist , how did you got the concept of Good and evil?

People have been shouting this since from the on set but somehow it seems your brain always takes you back to default. Good is used to represent an action or event favourable to human survival and societal well being, that is how the concept of good was derived.

Evil is an action or event that is a detriment to societal well being and unfavorable to human survival and increases suffering. . . That is what is termed evil, this is exactly how the concept of Good/evil are conceived
They negate each other.

malvisguy212:
There could only be ONE logical explanation: The universe is moral. Not only does morality prove God's existence, but it reveals the kind of God He is.

And you call this logical? . . . Did the definition of logical change of recent

malvisguy212:
You see, if there is no God, there is no right and wrong, good and evil.

When i see something like this it freaks me out. You are just showing that without someone coming up with the concept of a god, you would have being running around maiming and wreaking evil on the world in the name of no morality, That to me shows someone with a sick moral basis... Be good because you care and you are compassionate towards others, not because a book or someone said a deity said so.

malvisguy212:
The only ethical system for atheists are those that are created by society. For an atheist, it is only wrong to kill if society makes it illegal. For them, it's not wrong simply because it is intrinsically wrong. It is wrong because
society says it's wrong.

You are simply wrong... An atheist recognizes any act that increases human suffering and a threat to societal well being an immoral act whether the society says so or not.

We recognize evil when we see it, which ever way it is decorated. be it by religion or culture...E.g: We recognize a man using his child or attempting to use his child as a sacrifice to a deity as evil. . .like Jephath in d bible and Abraham's attempt.

You on the contrary shut blinding eyes to evils perpetrated by ur religion in the name of good and that my friend is very wrong...E.g: You see Abraham as a role model and sees nothing wrong in his actions or that of jephath who used his daughter as a burnt offering.

Morality is human and always will be.

And lastly, as a citizen of a country, it's your civic duty to obey the laws and ethics as stipulated by the constitution..(Need i remind you constitutions still undergo amendments)

Now hope you have seen the fallacies and deceptions in your post just to attack DProDG and Plaetton.

Blakjewelry:
Johny please give it a rest, am a science guy like you but I don't think it right to engage in most of the time in religious arguments. I only engage those who try to bring science into disrespect by posting false claims trying to merge science and religion. Secondly I only get involved when I feel it is for educational purposes and not going directly against someone belief system. Scientists all over the world have had to contend with those religious folks from time immemorial, many religious people are thought that those who do not believe in a particular God does so because of past experiences but the the truth is man is very curious animal and the hunger for knowledge is insatiable and the more you acquire knowledge, the more odd you will seem the from the public view

My problem with her was trying to drag a simple numerical mathematical representation into the realm of belief and faith. . . I mean that's unheard of. . . Am sure we both learnt something from each other

IzonOwei:
all deities claiming the feat you said points to the fact that truely there is a God who created everything...

Now may I ask you...how do you know for a fact that a deity didnt create the universe...any emperical evidence?..thank you..let me see the facts you have...

Do you know the difference between us, i dont claim to know how the universe started. . but i wouldn't let your superstitious claim hold sway without proof.

You are the one claiming a deity created the universe, i am asking you to pin point the one that did and substantiate ur claim with proof.

But since you cant, it remains a claim until you can prove it...

b.) Since you argue the universe must have a creator, then this creator too must also have a creator, which in turn must also have another creator and so it keeps going.

STPEACE:
Atheist, you people dnt believe in the existence of God but some of you reads bible more than i do. I wonder what you people are trying to see in the bible, i was having an argument with one some months ago, the guy was busy quoting bible for me in other to prove where the person i called God contradicts his word. Most of the things he knew in the bible is far beyond my comprehension, I was very surprised because it seems the guy has read the bible from A-Z, but i still believe in the existence of the living God.

Am sure you dont need to believe spiderman exists before watching his film or reading his comic books?

And that your atheist friend just gave you reason to start reading your own bible...

Lacomus:
I find my self in a paradox when ever I seek ans. To some questions, I just hope every thing will be revealed in the end.

How can everything be revealed in the end... You are alive now and as far as i know this life is the only one you are sure of. if you don't learn now you will never learn.. In this age of information, ignorance is a choice.

The story of Noah is a Myth, copied from an older myth. The Gilgamesh Flood story of babylonia. . . You may do well to google it.

IzonOwei:
why do we have to waste time...the emperical evidence that God exists is no longer a faith issue...its a fact..i would say its blindness on the part of a few not to see it..

The universe and its constituents(including all living things is the 2+2 equals 4 you seek for...

Are you still seeking for more evidence?

Now that is exactly where your faith lies

How did you know a deity created the universe.?

Every other deity claims this feat... we have like 2000 God concepts claiming to have created the world.

so which one did it?

what proof do you have that it did it and not others?

My friend you still need faith to believe that an abstract idea, created a material universe...

femi4:
Definition of faith is the believe in the "almost impossible". It is never "2+2=4"
Knowing is 1+1+1 = 3. While
Faith is 1+1+1 = 1

That is it exactly. . .But that u believe 1+1+1=3 by faith doesn't still make it true. .

That i believe 10+10= 1 by faith doesn't make it true.

Your faith doesnt make anything true, not even probably true. ur faith has no weight on truth. you have faith means u can believe anything whether its true or not

Crispels:
done! ping when u accept... my dp is abt deism

Just accepted buh can't find u on my contact. . . Geme ur pin or re-add me again

I ride am soteey e nearly tear all my knicker for nyash... chai buh person wound for this things eeehn...My beautiful childhood.. #DidYouSeeMyChildHood

Lol, This Dude just gone nutters. . ..Moses burning bush weed things..lol....WTF...

seankafor:
Now if u say their is no God, from whose power do magicians do their magics?
Evil power abi? Now how can their be devil and no God?
Or better still, magicians don't exist?

Lol and i even thought it was a good question. .

Magic are mere parlour tricks that that the magician hides from you. . . You just term what you don't understand how it works magic.

The devil is yet another myth and so just a figment of your imagination locked up in your head by superstition.

Stop believing that crap and see as it fizzles away.

Godownchild:
What of occultism and ritualist? Are u saying it does not exist, or they don't make money via it,is there no force that makes it happen for them?

Am sure you are making this assertions based on hear-say or nollywood movies cus you haven't being to any cult before

They are just as superstitious as you who believe it.
why do they still engage in businesses?

why aren't any of them richer than Bill Gates since their money just appears from no where?

Crispels:
too far... gimme ur number then, we talk on phone bro.

Are you on BBM, if yes 7F740386 add me

Godownchild:
This question of existence of God?

Yes there is a God.

Only two questions to this...
a.)Which one? Zeus, thor, odin, osiris, allah, yahweh, Horus..?

b.)Prove it..

Godownchild:
Why, from my own point of view, sometimes I think and reason how I came to being, why I m breathing, have life, move, talk,

I think you know the answer to this. . Your parents had sex, a single sperm cell fertilized and ovum and the result was you. If a different sperm cell had fertilized the ovum, you wouldn't have been here. So be happy you the lucky one out of 2million others that didn't make it to the ovum.

Godownchild:
where I was before birth, why didn't I know myself, what wud life be when I die, wud I just disappear, etc, these questions pop tru my head non the less, which has forced me to do lots of research!

Where you were before you were born; No where. you were not in existence.

Where you will be after death; No where, you will cease to exist.

Godownchild:
I believe humans were created by a greater being the same way all the materials we use today are created by us eg aeroplane, cars, nothing just came on its own!

Then Just as we created cars, aeroplane etc and still need a creator to create us, then this creator(s) must also have a creator which in turn must also have a creator and so it goes on in an infinite regress of creators..
I wonder how you liken Biological organisms to inanimate things like cars.

Godownchild:
Moreover, what of demonic entities, for instance babalawos? Are you saying its not real, they don't consult spirits.

Parlour tricks, Why don't they show how they do it? same reason a magician covers his hands with a cloth before an object disappears from his hands.

Godownchild:
what of people that do astral travelling, is it not real as well.there is a spiritual realm beyond our physical eyes.

Well there is no way to prove they actually do it.

A spiritual realm beyond our physical eyes and i now wonder how you got to know seeing you also are physical and possess just same physical optical organ like everyone else.

Godownchild:
Why not seek sincere answers, for of what use it is not believing and after death realising that there is a true God after all

Actually belief is not an answer, it is just shutting out answers to believe anything no matter how implausible it is which has lead to the belief of blatant myths as truth.

If any god is proven to be true, then you dont need to believe it, you will just know.. (it will be certainty not belief)

Moreover a god that bears grudge with tiny flimsy human cus of lack of belief just shows to be egoistic and that is a character flaw...

Godownchild:
In the process of typing I forgot to complete the statement. What I meant was, everybody days on earth is numbered! No human on earth. Even u and I knows how long we wud live because we did not create ourselves. Moreover why all these condemnation of each other here on, who are we to condemn others because they don't think or reason the way we do!
What we need do is pray for the enlightment of others because prior to now, we too were in darkness

Yeah you are right am sure you meant no harm dear. . . Its actually a kinda day to day routine getting death threats from theists when they run out of arguments, am used to that moreover it holds no water.

Have a good one dear. . . :

Godownchild:
Your own days are numbered too, why do I feel this statement is offensive coming from a bornagain to another fellow, telling someone he hs outlived his purpose!!! Smh

The greatest commandment is love... So many acclaimed christains don't reaally know what it is all about

And there you go committing exactly the same mistake he did. . . If the ultimate commandment is love, shouldn't love be gentle with corrections and kind with words. . Love is not retaliation, neither is retaliation a form of correction cus two wrongs don't make a right.

Since he made that mistake, you as an advocate of love shouldn't have trailed the same path to correct him... Cus now that you both are guilty of the same crime, i see no justification in further condemnation of his actions by you.

Anyway am sure you mean no harm dearie, actually i have gotten such threats countless times, means nothing..

An2elect2:
I hate Him I don't care what he has to say.

When God found evil in Him and threw him out, it wasn't a single story, it was the whole story of Lucidoomed.

Hahahahahaha sweetheart easy ooo. . . With this kind anger if you jam satan, im name na sorry oo cus you go beat am eeehn, even do am smack down. . lmao..

Satan will be begging u like "Diaris god ooo" hahahahaha

Crispels:
where are u based bro?? we need to talk!

Based in the east. . . Enugu.

honeric01:
You love to argue.. my last pos to you.

the jewish scripture (bible) has just 24 books.

The Five Books of Moses (Chumash)
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
The Eight Books of the Prophets (Neviim)
Joshua
Judges
Samuel
Kings
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekial
The Twelve (minor prophets) Trei-Assar
The Eleven Books of the Writings (Kesuvim)
Psalms - Tehilim
Proverbs - Mishlei
Job - Iyov
Song of Songs - Shir HaShirim
Ruth - Rus
Lamentations - Eicha
Ecclesiastes - Koheles
Esther
Daniel - Doniel
Ezra/Nehemia
Chronicles - Divrei Hayamim

I asked you, are the contents of the books the same? can you then say those with two sides have same contents with those with just one side? i asked before, have you read both books to know if they are both word by word the same?

Anyways i don't even know why i am discussing this with you self since you have no stake in it.

Enjoy.

Nice. . . Thanks for helping out list the books. .

The jewish scriptures Tenakh have 24books because most of its books divided into.2books in the bible like samuel, kings etc are actually just one book in the Tenakh.

The Twelve minor prophet books divided into 12 separate books in the bible are just one book in the tenakh, so thats why it is counted 24 in total.

As for the contents of the Old testament and the Tenakh; Yes they are exactly the same contents only mutilated in the bible due to different version translations.

You know what started this argument is when you wanted to distance Jew from Christian at the same time deny them the authorship of the old testament which arguably takes up to 65% of the christian bible.

As long as you have agreed the Old testament was Hewn from the Jewish Scriptures (Tenakhs) I have nothing more to argue with you. . .It was fun talking with you tho

honeric01:
Hello? i said the religion is intertwined, did you miss that part? the religion, not the book. (torah, milkra or tenaka)

have you read the content of both books? do they have the same content?

We are here to learn and i need you to to learn so you dont go out there and repeat this same mistake again by saying the jews didnt write the old testament of the bible.

They have exactly the same content. . . The bible copied it heavily.

The Torah is exactly the five books found in the bible (genesis, exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus and numbers.

Navim Consist of Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, isaiah, jeremiah. . . Only that these books are not divided into 1st and 2nd books like the bible did with Samuel and kings.

Tre Asar are - hosea, micah and the other 10books of the prophets; Amos, Obediah. You know the rest. . . Only that these books divided into twelve seperate books in the bible are actually just 1book in Tenakh.

ketuvim The poetic books consist of 11books. . . Psalms, proverbs, job, daniel,etc.

Yeah No trophy sir. . . Please learn from your mistakes in case of next time.

Oya back the thread.. **Observing mode activated**

honeric01:
Nah.. you didnt teach me nada because the book isnt mine either..its a jewish book and not my book.
.

So you now agree its a jewish book? Hahahahahahaha. . that my boy is exactly what i taught you

honeric01:
I have edited my post and not wrong..check again.

The origin of the both Christianity and Islam is Judaism, so saying it was copied or stolen whatever is funny. they are all intertwined.

Yeah you edited it but not the one i mentioned or quoted.

You were very fast to counter the assertion when i mentioned Old testament was from the jews, Now you have learnt some valuable lessons i presume. .

I do hope you will only argue based on what you are sure of from now on

honeric01:
I actually mentioned the torah which i equate as their bible (wrong) because this is main book they use most.


having said that, the bible was written through the inspiration of the holy spirit according to history, so it was not written by a jew nor a christian. (literally)

remember its a compilation of different scrolls written at different era by different people.

no need derailing the more since what we are discussing has nothing to do with the topic.

Adios fairytale man.

Lol. . . Is this a way of agreeing you were very wrong?

Anyway am glad you have learnt The Old testament Was written by the Jews and copied from their scripture Tenakh

Christians copied them except the Talmud. . . Next time young man, read and be sure before rushing to post stuffs thinking you just have a point...Has been a pleasure teaching you where your own books(old testament) of your own bible came from

honeric01:
Na..the jews dont own a bible, check again..its called Torah which does not have any part of the new testament and does not have more books than the bible.

It also does not have some of the books in the old testament..
it has just 24 books compared to the various bibles around ranging from 66 to 78 books.

google it and know what you're against lolz.

Sometimes i get tired this type of blind argument. You should have simply just googled it as you advised instead of showing how ignorable you can be.

The torah is just the first five books commonly known as the five books of moses. the jewish scripture is called Tenakh. . and it consist of Torah, navim, Trei asai, ketuvim. . . practically every book of the old testament falls under one of these categories . .

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

it counts as one book each
Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah and counts Trei Asar ( תרי
עשר , the Twelve Prophets; literally "twelve" as a single book.

here enjoy.... Next time boy, argue only when you actually know

Is it not laughable that you dont even know where the books in the old testament of your own bible came from?. . . Lol.

honeric01:
back to topic: can you share the devil's side of the story if you know?

Am actually here to Observe you guys probably Christians and Satanist, battle it out just like Cupid1 invited me too. . . If i am to share any mythology with you, it would be the igbo, yoruba mythology and more colourfully interested ancient mythologies like Egyptian, babylonian, mesopotamian and my favourite greek mythology.

honeric01:
You brought up the questions na..

Since the jews dont use the popular bible available, they have their own book which explained existence in another light different from the Bible. i was quite confused when you brought up the jews "writing" the bible.

Anyways.. no need bro.. we have no issue here lol

What?? The jews have their own scriptures in which all old testament books are in and the old testament books were copied or should i just say hewn from, and their scripture have more books which the christians didn't bother adding to the bible because of the obvious contradictions of beliefs.

The Jews literally wrote 65% of the bible. . THE OLD TESTAMENT Or are you meaning to tell me that christians wrote it?

honeric01:
hehehe..meaning you are an unbeliever..so what exactly are we discussing?

We are discussing the bible fairy tale just like we can discuss the spiderman fairy tale or Greek fairy tale

honeric01:
Do you know the difference between a jew and a Christian or are they one and the same?

Well now you are driving the thread off point. . . Unless one doesn't know the difference between Judaism and Christianity will one not know the difference between Jew and christian.