₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212:
thank you for the correction.
Deuteronomy 13:7
gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to
the other),
Obizeal; This verse was not talking about jehovah God but the idols.

First of all the correction was not necessary since you purposely reversed it...

now let me help you quote Deuteronomy 13 from 6 to 10

[size=20] If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own life entices you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods--gods you have not known, you nor your fathers,

7Of the gods of the peoples who are round about you, near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other--

8You shall not give consent to him or listen to him; nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him.

9But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hands of all the people.

10And you shall stone him to death with stones, because he has tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.[/size] ... now aint that brutal?

malvisguy212:
maby you mistakenly provide another verse, or you are confused.
◄ Deuteronomy 7:13 ►
He will love you and bless you and
increase your numbers. He will bless the
fruit of your womb, the crops of your
land--your grain, new wine and olive oil--
the calves of your herds and the lambs
of your flocks in the land he swore to
your ancestors to give you.

habaaaaa the guy said [size=20] Deuteronomy 13: 7[/size] common why are you this deceptive naaa

malvisguy212:
there is no verse in the bible God command us to kill, if there is provide it.

Read ur damn book for once...

torchwave:
Johnydon22, you haven't made any reply to my last post on this thread asking you some questions. You can continue to pretend you did not see it. I'll understand.

Oh i saw it and decided to ignore such deceptive questions..

How can you ask me the standard by which this your god judges and expect me to answer that... You are the christian here and you should answer that not the other way round, then i can start my questions based on these standards.. now address your post and await my questions...

michaelwestern:
Did you even read my post before quoting me? I stated it clearly that the old testament laws are not for christians. God gave the commandments to isrealites only there was nothing like christianity then.

It's the same God but different dispensation and to the best of my knowledge the OP was referring to christians not isrealites who were given the commandments.

Let me state it clearly again, christians dont follow the old testament commandments, we only read the old testament to learn about how God related to the isrealites before christianity.

Hhmmm i still see you christians referencing the 10commandments, even tithes.. lolzz isrealites indeed..

timmy2409:
Funny enough, Abraham isn't even the worst example from the bible since he didn't end up going through with the murder. There was some guy Jared or Japheth or smth, who actually sacrificed his daughter to Yahweh for helping him win a war.

Talk about despicable

yeah jesophath or something... these guys still wont see anything wrong in that ...

emrain:
they are your questions not mine. ask Him and give us feedback.

The dude is nowhere to be found, i would actually love to talk to him over some bottles of beer...

emrain:
He always answers me.

Then give me the answers to the questions i just asked... am sure he must have told you the answers

emrain:
you can as well go down on your kneels and ask Him.
He listens...

You that have been going down on your knees since... what answers have he given you?

michaelwestern:
OP you are confusing judaism with christianity. God never commanded any christian to kill anybody. There was nothing like christianity before Jesus Christ. Christianity is built on Jesus Christ and Jesus never asked christians to kill anybody. The old testament is in the bible so that we can learn about how God related with the jews not to obey their commandments.

If you read the old testaments very well you will realize that the commandments were given specifically to only the isrealites. Every other nation then were gentiles and they had no obligations to obey the commandments. When.Jesus came, he connected the gentiles to God not through the isrealite's laws but through his blood. And he gave the christians only two commandments which is Love the Lord your God and love your neighbour as yourself.

He never commanded the christians but he commanded jews right..

Is it not the same yahweh? Is the christian concept of yahweh diferent from the judaic concept (original concept tho)

Why is the jewish commandments in d christian scriptures.

Why say the old testament laws applies to christians but yet when faced with passages as this you remember its in the old testament...

Why not say the whole old testament is invalid or is it that you just cherrypick the ones that appeals to your morals but others that dont, you just say its in the old testament forgetting your ten commandments and other laws are also from the old testament...

emrain:
God is no longer interested in blood sacrifices. Jesus has paid the ultimate price.

Since he got tired of his blood thirst and wanted to stop (Even tho you guys say he never change) why didn't he go ahead and stop it instead of taking the blood of his son in a bid to stop it..

Why must he take the blood of his son to stop his thirst for blood. why not just stop it...

ayoku777:
You question was making sense until this line.

It is still your freewill that takes you to hell not God. God only forknew that you would choose to go to hell.

But the answer to your question is yes. God's foreknowledge of our choices is never wrong. So if God foreknows you will choose to go to hell, then it means you will. Not that He predestined you for hell, but you chose by your own freewill to go there. God only foreknew you will make that choice.

Knowing what someone will do does not mean or imply that you made them do it. That's why I said foreknowledge is not predestination.

If you get this, then we are good.

Common dude stop all this.

If God already knows he will go to hell and it can never be wrong, whether he choose to or not he will surely go to hell cus God cannot be wrong..

Why do you guys always contradicting yourselves...

If God knows the guy will choose to go to hell (remember he can never be wrong) and frank317 in his freewill chooses to go to heaven instead.. it means God's foreknowledge was wrong.

But if God's foreknowledge can never be wrong, then it means frank have no choice at all cus he will surely go to hell cus God can never be wrong...

dd12345:
@johnydon22 and other humanist,liberal,freethinker and atheist in the house...it still amaze me now why atheist who hate God but spend all their life talking, worrying, lamenting against God ...they talk and think of God more the the Christians who believe and love God...the bible says We cant do nothing against the truth but for the truth...God told SAUL in act 26:14... It is hard for you to kick against the pricks...
Question: "What does it mean to kick against the pricks?"

Ok i really thougt i could ignore this but i have to reply to correct your daftness and shallow mindedness that have riddled you wit fallacious assumptions.

First atheists, agnostics etc do not hate any God(s) they are just myths, people dont hate myths just like i wont accuse you of hating God (horus).
saying anybody hate your idea of God is a fallacious statement and most will find it offensive so please refrain from it.

Nairaland is a public forum, so i enjoy coming here to argue amd most of all make people like you think outside the box of the religion they have been indoctrinated into but clearly you are just here to troll threads, make stu.pid assumptions...

dd12345:
Answer: “It is hard for you to kick against the pricks” was a Greek proverb, but it was also familiar to the Jews and anyone who made a living in agriculture. An ox goad was a stick with a pointed piece of iron on its tip used to prod the oxen when plowing. The farmer would prick the animal to steer it in the right direction. Sometimes the animal would rebel by kicking out at the prick, and this would result in the prick being driven even further into its flesh. In essence, the more an ox rebelled, the more it suffered. Thus, Jesus’ words to Saul on the road to Damascus: “It is hard for you to kick against the pricks.”
When we choose to disobey God, we become like the rebellious ox—driving the goad deeper and deeper. “The way of the unfaithful is hard” (Proverbs 13:15). How much better to heed God’s voice, to listen to the pangs of conscience! By resisting God’s authority we are only punishing ourselves.

or GUYS, do you want to tell me you don't wake up in the middle of the night and cry about your miserable state...the anger, the frustration, the sorrow, the emptiness you experienced...BUT I HAVE A GOOD NEWS FOR YOU...JESUS STILL LOVE YOU TO COME AND ACCEPT HIM...eventhough there are so many things you don't understand about him...but as you walk with him..it will become very clear with time and the end of the day...you will laugh at your foolishness of the past...HE LOVES YOU...

And now i wonder if all the mumbo jumbos you yarned above makes sense to you but let me correct a rediculous notion.

@At the bolded is a very wrong assumption and i beg you again to.desist from it we all know lying is wrong so please stop it.

A myth is a myth no matter how much you believe it, we just call myths what they are which is myth. you choose to believe one myth over others is your business.

You can never imagine the freedom, peace and happiness we feel realizing these myths and unshackling ourselves from it.

If i tell you that you feel an emptiness because you reject krishna and that krishna loves you and wants you to come to him am sure you will be offended, so please do not assume such of me or anyone.

[size=20] we choose to live in reality and not myth. the freedom and peace is unmatched[/size]

Wallow in your delusion its no business of mine... now stop trolling this thread...

michaelwestern:
Why this now? did he force you to open the thread? this post shows how frustated atheists are.

How is the guy an atheist? clearly you cant read ba?
or you missed that part where he said his God will punish the op

emrain:
and if this is a lie as I'm suspecting, [size=20]my God[/size] punish the whole of your family for wasting my time.

@ michaelwestern
Am not even sure you know what atheist means... tell me again after seeing the enlarged text how the guy is an atheist.. . . seriously eeehn i wonder which brain you guys think with

We want more hospitals built and not magnificent churches with golden altars

We want good deeds done (lend a helping hand to someone out there) and not clasp them in prayers that solves nothing.
(two hands working achieves more than a thousand clasped in prayers)

We want donations and supplies to the poor, displaced, hunger stricken, famine effected people even in nigeria and east africa and not tithes paid to a pastor on suit with private jets and pot belly.

Empiree:
lol, he's only seeking attention

Ok to be honest it got me disgusted to see a human say such when a fellow human was killed because of belief..

tartar9:
Very good

What? killing a man for denouncing a shitty belief is very good? Do you even hear yourself? are you well at all?

ayoku777:
Fine.

Now Proorizo which is the greek word translated predestination in scripture means God's predetermined will.

And I gave example of that will being, God not wanting any man to perish but to come to the knowledge of the truth. Also that God would have all men to be saved.

Meaning God's will for man is not always done since ALL men are not saved.

That is why I said from the beginning that in the scriptures, predestination is not cast in iron. God's will is not always done.

Beacuse if God's will is always done, then all men will be born again and every born again christian will be christlike. For that is God's will for every man.

That is the usage and application of predestination in scripture.

certainly the predestination i defined is not the same you are yapping about here...I just need the Op to clarify you and tell you the predestinations he means since you bent on using your own biblical influenced definition of predestination and not that of the dictionary..

Hey Macof and KoloOyinbo... can we leave the insults and try to make our points in a more discreet and mature manner.

This is supposed to be an intelligent argument not insults..

please brothers let us not let our different opinions and beliefs steer us clear from the love of our fellow humans cus in all this religious, cultural, geographical diversities we all still share one thing in common and thats our humanity.

So dear friends can we now go on with the argument without insults, and discuss as friends without getting emotional or sentimentally biased...

frank317:
Seriously Did he pretend not t see this perfect response?

Lolzzzzz

ayoku777:
I think we need to go back to the basics.

I noticed no one else has given their own definition of predestination.

Maybe if we all give our own definition of predestination, we can start from there to know where exactly the disagreement is coming from.

This my definition of predestination based on scriptural usage and application.

PREDESTINATION (Proorizo): is the predeterminate will of God for a man. It is what God created and called a man to be and to do from the foundations of the earth.

This is my definition of predestination based on the scriptural application of the word.

If others can give their own definition of predestination, we will take it from there. Then we can see if predestination always happens no matter the person's choices or step of action -or if a man's choices can alter it.

predestination as given by the dictionary (theology) The doctrine that everything has been foreordained by a God…

Now we have gotten the definition of what predestination really is from the ENGLISH DICTIONARY... now tell me

If everything have been foreordained tell me how man still have freewill since all you do must go according that invisible plan already foreordained for you... If man have freewill how can everything be foreordained by any deity...

ayoku777:
frank317

This long stories is getting tiring.

Maybe your lack of faith in God is getting in the way of your objective response. So let's remove God from the explanation.

Let me put it this way now:

If I foreknow that you will reply this post I am making, did I predestined you to reply it or you replied it on your own freewill?

Is it my foreknowledge of your reply that made you reply my post or you replied my post of your own freewill?

If frank317 doesnt reply this post, it means your foreknowledge of him replying this post is wrong.

But God as you all make us believe can never be wrong, If you do out of what he foreknows you will do, it means what he knew was wrong therefore he is not omniscient.

Or do you mean his foreknowledge of ur actions can be wrong?

So you see the flaw in trying to reconcile your foreknowledge of frank replying the post and God foreknowing someone will go to hell?

Their is a huge difference between dying and fainting...

Some folk faints, comes to nairaland and say he died and resurrected..
chai...praise the lord my brother!

Seriously all these christian mumbo jumbo tire me...

they be like He already knows what you will do, but you still have freewill
how can you have freewill when someone already knows what you will do and you cannot do otherwise.

Your own words contradict each other so much..
God already knows those that will go to hell but those who go to hell did so by freewill.

How can it be freewill since God already know and those people must do it or else God is no longer ominscient.

If you read ur posts, i doubt if you do.. you will see that they contradict each other that it can show any sane man that you are just speaking with the bible as your brain, and whats worse they are very long and unbearably boring..

Not even ready to argue or say any further since you are convinced that white is red and still also is white

honoure:
Op. U r wrong in some points noted. For example there is no scientific prove to show the world is a few billion yeras old. It would surprise u that scientific evidence rather supports a shorter time frame like the bible says. The oldest treee in the world is just over 5 thousand years old. U cna goolge it. What scientist mostly do is guessing which they call theories. If u r current u will know thta the theory of evolution is no longer valid as it has been discredited by feloow non believing scientists. Check the work by raymond tallis who surprisingly is an atheist.

Bro honestly if i were you i won't talk here again, even me is covering my face shaming for you...

The fossile of the humanid adipithecus ramidus unearthed in 93 was dated and found to be 4.3 million years old.

below is a picture of a cyanobacteria colonial chroococcalean form from the Bitter Springs chert of central Australia, carbon dated to be about 850 million years old.
Can you define a sceintific theory as defined by your dictionary, you will never speak again.

And who disproved evolution, what other theory have been proposed...
Did this guy ever enter class at all?

malvisguy212:
I don't want to stress my self in searching for your post that say otherwise because this is a lie everybody knows.

Is anything wrong with this guy
Seriously you sound daft...(not intended as an insult)

let me quote myself for you again
[size=20] It may sound similar to you because we dont believe in any deity or
superstitious mumbo jumbo...[/size]

I dont even know why you choose to derail this thread and make a fo.ol of yourself here..

I wont reply your quote on this again... stick to the thread..

malvisguy212:
but you proved your points Base on there logic and theories.

No i prove my points based on my own logic and reasoning not anybody's...

It may sound similar to you because we dont believe in any deity or superstitious mumbo jumbo...

My reasoning have nothing to do with anybody..