₦airaland Forum

butterflylion:
I have been putting up with yours all along with your subtle jabs at intelligence and lack of understanding. I know the trick Johny

Not everyone is gullible and cannot read between the lines. Like I said, let me recover, I dey come.

k.

LoJ:
Hi everyone.

@Hardmirror,

There is a difference between skepticism and materialism. One is rational and scientific while the other is dogmatic and religious. True skepticism is skeptical even towards materialism. Unfortunately, your thread displays a materialistic belief and not skepticism, which you may think are synonymous but are not.

1- with respect to nobody making scientific breakthrough or having no reputation among "enlightened" people on nairaland: this is a false belief. Do you know billyonaire or any other in real life? How can you be sure they are not that acclaimed scientist you admire?

There was a very great scientist here on nairaland, I know him personally. He has made major breakthroughs in the domain of medicine with the help of elementals beings. and is well known all over the world. He is no longer active on nairaland but still visits rarely.

I have learnt to listen to people on the merits of their arguments and the intellectual humility they exhibit when reeling out subjects that still are below the par of certainty.

Making statements that implies "the concept of time proportional to distance from sun" is not a problem, everyone is allowed to make mistakes or be naive about some certain matters but making such statement with a whole lot of arrogance and subtle condescension towards those who disagree is a lot of problem, that should not be funny at all.

I have read some of their posts and i must agree it is filled with already known stuffs then majorly lots of B.S that are in the least unsubstantiated. Yes i do not trust sorely in science but i distrust anything that contradicts science and outrages reason.

adepeter2027:
I want to disagree with you on this.
Extra ordinary claim requires extra ordinary evidence.

My reason for disagreeing with you is that, Billy created a thread about Astral travel, many people raised important questions. Instead of him attending/responding to the question, he left the task to us.

Loj i think you would agree with me that for a scientific thesis to be taken seriously the postulator must substantiate his own thesis, leaving the question your thesis or claims raise to your baffled audience to figure out on their own is not at all scientific... it's below the bar

butterflylion:
When you have nothing intelligent to say your method is to try and make the other person look less intelligent

Let me recover from the mauling of Nigeria by ghana first then we go talk.

#sighs this puerile behaviour is what i am supposed to put up with, phheeew i will pass.

butterflylion:
Johnydon22 you are yet to address a lot of the incoherent issues you raised which I countered. Let's start with this one

On my last post i promised to ignore posts that are consonant with my OP, you see i cannot argue at someone's inability to fully grasp the language of a particular post.


.

My response

I am quite certain that my response to this was, purpose is a child of the human mind, if you can't understand that basic statement i cannot help you

And also this one below


My response

You said " if you read a response that shows ignorance of the OP you will not respond to it and then some crappy talk about condescending too low when you have been the one setting the bar too low and making us condescend to your level. Be honoured and not arrogant!

I await your response.

from my post

"Kepler observed the heavens on many nights, the most many of the times and he noticed moon craters, perfect depressed circles on the surface of the moon, a circle is a geometrical perfection so how could such perfect design come naturally?

Based on what he is used to here on earth, circle can only come from intelligence, such precise perfections cannot be attributed to random accidental and chaotic chance of natural causality.

So his argument was: Such circular structures connoted intelligent beings on the moon and these craters were structures purposely built by this intelligent civilization.

Keplers argument is just as valid as the argument of design, nature lacks what it takes to make such perfect geometry, it can never be as a result of the chaotic chance that rules natural causality.

Or is it?

Turns out Kepler was also wrong, the moon craters were not a result of intelligence as a matter of fact there are as a result of accidental, random, uncharted chaos.

A great rock of intense speed [meteors, asteroids] hitting the surface of the moon would create a local explosion perfectly symmetrical in every direction thus giving rise to perfect circular depressions.

It was not a result of intelligent design as kepler thought, it was starkly the raw opposite."


had it been you read the post or at least paid attention to it you wouldn't bring up the chaos cannot beget beauty mumbo jumbo, this is why i chose to ignore further posts. I no longer have the patience to keep on bickering endlessly when it doesn't sink in. I am way past that time.


This question about nebulae and stars only betrays your naivety of astronomy and these naivety used as an argument is grossly misplaced, i won't argue your inability to grasp natural process. I can only keep going in circles and getting no where

That time by distance from sun's part is unbearably funny.

The thing is people tend to mistake confidence for intelligence.. If you confidently keep saying something that is stupid and stick to it people will start to believe it.

I get tired easily when I engage on arguments here on nairaland

Bunch of mumbo jumbo word salads that doesn't even make sense.. Its just word salads

bennyann:
Johnydon22 as you can see, my assumption on the similarity of otem's room to another is wrong. Please help me ask him to forgive me.

Because of una, I dey waka dey type for busy road.

Lol this thread is freaking unnecessary. People just turned too petty

adepeter2027:
Hahaha

They Yaff finally frustrated you abi

Anyways, you're really trying

You are talking (A) and they are replying with (Z) with (A) in it.. Anyway i am sure the OP is coherent enough, make i no go tire myself out going in circles abeg

butterflyl1on:
You are the one talking about chaos aka the mashed egg approach. Felixomor is not! He supports design.

So based on this you are asking the wrong questions. Your question should rather be directed at yourself. Was the universe created the way one would mash together eggs?

felixomor:
Nah, you still have not carried out the experiment
Do it and then we can compare that with the beautiful universe we have.

OH GOD!!!

felixomor:
I have.
Its zero.

but the cosmos now is like a fried egg or a mashed one?

What if this universe was created that way, God took some cosmic egg and smashed them together and this is the result - would you say God designed the universe or not?

Atheist have nothing to gain in tearing down the belief establishment, religions on the other hand has everything to lose. with this in mind arguing against religion may not be a mark of antagonism but rather a bid to address preferential treatments that religions enjoy.

Again God and religion are matters of public concern, anyone who advocate silence of opinions on these subject may do so by been silent to fully demonstrate the effectiveness of silence

butterflyl1on:
You say the painting isn't orderly based on your "untrained" eye. However the painter sees beauty and order even in the mess you see.

Please beauty is not same thing as orderly. And this obviously also affirms my point, smashed egg can be artistic.

This was why I asked at what point would you say intelligence is seen? Is it at the beginning of the singularity that caused the big bang or in the middle or at the end which is the point we are now?

This question makes it obvious you neither didn't read the OP or didn't understand it and i won't oblige the digressive clutch.

Or would you say none of the stages show any intelligence?

Read the post, i won't argue against your misconception - What i see are natural causes and effects

Showing me that picture shows we are no longer talking about suppositions because you have a notion about what your do not perceive orderliness to look like but I can say that once the end product of what seems messy shows purpose then it's no longer messy.

Jesus Christ, again Oder and purpose is not the same thing. Please understand that basic thing. Order, beauty, purpose are not same, stop using together like that.

So you agree then that in what you call a mess design can be an intrinsic part of it.

Oh thank you very much now you are helping me make my point to feliximor. smashed egg he may think undesigned can actually may have been designed. I provided the picture to show that un-ordered system is not necessarily undesigned, ordered is not necessarily designed.

Maybe it makes more sense when you lot say it or you don't even get it in the first place.

Again despite talking about design being possible in a mess you still say the nebulae isn't ordered? If the nebulae isn't ordered how come stars are born there? Can chaos produce order?

God of mercy! Forgive me for the exclamation but there naive statements i don't expect people to make, maybe i give people too much credit.

1. nebulae are very random gasses therefore there are no apparent order [it's just as ordered as a smoke coming out of a chimney] it's random oo

2.star formation is a chaotic process

3. this shows again that you didn't read the OP where i showed perfectly geometrical projections [circles] can come from random chaos. If i read a response that shows ignorance of the OP i won't reply it, i hate to condescend but people take the bar so low.

You "assume" that 99% of the universe serves no purpose when mankind is even yet to explore and experience 0.00000000000000000000000001% of it.

Purpose is a child of the human mind - read to understand

How did you arrive at such a summation? Remember you said the nebulae was chaotic earlier yet this alleged chaos is the birth place for stars.

Amazing how these stars being formed affects earth neither are we ever going to explore even 1%.. LOL..

I don't even think i can or will start explaining what it means that "purpose is a child of the human mind"

It should be! You cannot deny the obvious purpose in what you term as chaos. Can you? Remember you came from what you term as "chaos". Would you say your purpose filled body parts deny order or embrace chaos?

again uses order and purpose as the same. Order is not same as purpose mind your words, when will you understand this, i won't continue reminding that.

krattoss:
what if things go south and video goes viral

Not really a reasonable excuse to refuse video documentation

krattoss:
u want the dude to be all over the news exhibiting juju and magics..??

What's his loved ones gonna say bout it ...

Don't u know it can ruin one's future in this country where majority forbids and speaks I'll of those act's

If there are not video recordings, such a thing can easily be hypnosis..

Video documentation is important since Video cameras can't be hypnotised

krattoss:
Hello ladies and gentle men...

Hahn,johnnydon22..npcomplete..

I have used my eyes and confirmed ....Dude teleporting is real...

AM more than serious this time..

AM in for the bet Hahn..yeah Hahn am in for the bet...

U and johnnydon22 should cordinate and holla me at 08105968079...
Or u drop ur own am gonna holla u guys......

Any where any venue...no cameras..no police no military...

Come with any amount of squad...

Am not gonna lie...I don't have up to 500k but I can cough out 10k...but hey...ain't joking and the nigga ain't gonna accept 10k bet. ...

Hahn I personally callenge u..if u dare put ur 500k ...u ain't gonna see it again...

I could go borrowing but dude ain't wanna blow his cover....

So I dare any die hard doubting Thomas to dare me and ma nigga

Any interested person should hit me up with my number...Am on whatsapp Facebook and Twitter..ain't no time for hide and seek....

As for venue..I school at futo. ...and he'll yeah strike been called off so am going back this weekend...

If any of y'all gat the liver...then futo you come or imsu where the nigga schools..

SEEING IS BELIEVING..

So he disappeared right in front of you?

bloodofthelamb:
WHAT/WHO IS BEHIND THE FORCE OF GRAVITY...FOR THERE IS NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE..

Mass over space/time

butterflyl1on:
You didn't answer my question.

how would you be able to recognise an intelligent design from an egg, sand mash up if you never knew what the end product would look like? How would you be able to say that what was produced is orderly,

your question is based on the presumption that design means orderly, no sir they are hardly the same which is why I posted that painting up there, it is designed but not ordered.

So yes meshed egg can be pin pointed as an artistic design in so many ways, its no less disordered than that painting above.

beautiful

Lol many things can connote beauty, color more so. Nebulae are not ordered but yet they are so beautiful. A broken egg can equally be as beautiful as that.

So yes.

and precisely purposeful? What tests would prove this?

Purpose is a child of the human mind. And if we judge from that 99.99% of the universe won't have a purpose.

So this part is not my business.

bloodofthelamb:
THE NEWTON FIRST LAW OF MOTION STATES: AN OBJECT REMAINS IN A PLACE OF REST UNTIL AN EXTERNAL FORCE ACTS ON IT...THE EARTH CANNOT PRODUCE/CREATE ITSELF...

The earth is as a result of an already existing universe filled with incessant causes. Planets are inevitable effects of gravity. [Mind you: every known law of physics breaks down at a singularity though]

butterflyl1on:
So Johnydon based on the above statement by me would you say intelligence is seen at the beginning of the singularity that caused the big bang or in the middle or at the end which is the point we are now?

Or would you say none of the stages show any intelligence?

You may well read my OP again

bloodofthelamb:
BRO, IT IS ONLY AN UNINTELLIGENT PERSON THAT DOES THINGS WITHOUT A PURPOSE...THAT THING THAT CAUSED THE MIRACULOUS "BIG BANG" MUST HAVE A PURPOSE IN MIND...DON'T YOU THINK SO?

Are we talking about Purpose?

butterflyl1on:
The point is this johnydon how would you be able to recognise an intelligent design from an egg, sand mash up if you never knew what the end product would look like? How would you be able to say that what was produced is orderly, beautiful and precisely purposeful? What tests would prove this?

this is design

felixomor:
Thats if u could show me the design and complex order like the one we see in the universe in your egg and sand mash up.

You have no idea how many can be pointed out

bloodofthelamb:
ANYTHING THAT CAUSED THE BIG BANG, ACCORDING TO THOSE ROBING GOD OF HIS GLORY, MUST BE SO INTELLIGENT TO CAUSE A WELL STRUCTURED EARTH...

Well such a thing must not necessarily be intelligent or even all powerful.

THAT THING OR SOMETHING DESERVES OUR WORSHIP...DON'T YOU THINK SO?

Well i do not think something that something big and powerful enough to create the universe cares whether some tiny beings on a tiny world worships it or not

DoctorAlien:
Since you would bypass the quote from Stephen Hawking, I say that the Kalam argument which I posted above(in 2 posts) precludes the existence of an eternal universe/universe without beginning.

I'd stick with scientific cosmology though and thus agree to uncertainty of the subject

bloodofthelamb:
THAT SOMETHING MUST HAVE INTELLIGENCE TO CAUSE OR PRODUCE SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO INTELLIGENT....DON'T YOU THINK SO?

must also be complex to produce something that is also complex, yes?

DoctorAlien:
Imaginary time indeed.

Nothing conclusive can be said about the Singularity. The nature of the Singularity is not even known. In fact, whether it existed or not is pure speculation, just like the whole of the Big Bang theory.

exactly the point i had here, we not know whether the universe is without beginning or not even if you go by the Big bang cosmological model

DoctorAlien:
Amnotundastanding. In the book, did Hawking explain the statement "the universe, and time itself, had a beginning..." in such a way that it no longer means that the universe and time had a beginning?

the summary is: there are observational implications that suggests a beginning but breaks down at a singularity to solve this he derived what he called "imaginary time"

At imaginary time the universe had a beginning but in real time it doesn't. i guess thats another way of saying "Modern science do not know whether the universe had a beginning or not" even Carl Sagan agreed to it in his book "the cosmos"

just read the damn book bro

Like i told someone above, The big bang proposes a beginning of the universe from a singularity but not the beginning of the singularity.

vaxx:
this is Plato argument. everything that is move must have a mover but the mover those not require a mover because it is the first move and knows himself.

That argument is self defeating and in modern term can be termed nonsensical just like Aristotle thinking objects in motion stopped moving because they get tired, knowing himself is not a basis for a mover to not be moved. If Plato argued that EVERYTHING that moves must have been moved by something at the same time thinks the Mover does not require to be moved then it fails in it's own game since for the mover to move something it must first move itself. and the argument states "everything" so if the mover can move without being moved then not everything that moves requires to be moved

what it simply mean is that God does not require a designer because he is the designer.

still flawed being a designer does not exempt one from design. man is a designer does this exempt us from design?

I had discuss this issue with you before but it seems you are not getting it or you failed to accept. you accept the design is complex but you don't wish to know about the designer but rather who created the designer. isn't this hilarious.

Jesus christ what ever this means.

wait, I heard Mr Johndon got pregnant and gave birth . is it a boy or girl?

LOL where did you hear that from

DoctorAlien:
Johnydon22,

I am convinced that the universe had a beginning. That does not depend on whether Hawking and co. agree or not. Nevertheless, here is a lecture by Hawking. In it, he concludes that "the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago."

You may love to read "A brief history of time" by Hawkins he expounded more on the lectures and you will find the ideas touched things more than the lecture. it is better read than explained here.

progressing more on the big bang theory like i replied someone above

" The Big Bang yes but if i recall correctly the Big bang was caused by a singularity (As the scientists also postulated) So yes the Big Bang accounts for the beginning of the universe but not that of the Singularity which might as well be eternal or not."

Of course, Big Bang is nonsense, and I don't believe it.

Well i wouldn't stress this by asking the basis of that conclusion.

In an argument, it is not enough to say "this is like this" you must also show why it is and reasons your conclusions are based on but i am lacking that information right now on your conclusion that the universe had a beginning (I am not arguing that it doesn't though)...

hahn:
Yes boss

Unfortunately I do not see this argument going anywhere

it may yet

Our moronic doctor with the sleeping brain is already posting his usual nonsense. The guy whose thread you are replying has never been known to make any sense despite the fact that he only posts one sentence and that butterfly will soon come here with insults and nothing meaningful

Hopefully other people will read and enjoy, as I have, as that is the only benefit I can see coming from the thread

me too

DoctorAlien:
Johnydon22,

The universe is not eternal. Even Stephen Hawking agrees.

You may want to read Stephen Hawkins book "A brief history of time" he will explain way better than i ever can on his idea on universe and the beginning.

Moreover, the Kalam argument supports that position.

Are you saying that life evolved?

this is not an argument for biological evolution though the implications of biological evolution is that it provided other ways functional complex beings can be without industrial assembly.

though this is not the purpose of the thread rather to treat the culture of false comparisons. This is like this therefore this must also be like that.