₦airaland Forum

AlvanT:
Chisos, Oga Johnny u dey Enugu so? you know UNEC side?

I live quite close

For this to be further stretched you must first of all tell us how someone can attain the state of being born again.

Is being a born again inherent or is it something you attain/gain through a particular way?

If it is inherent then surely you are correct that it cannot be lost.

If it is not inherent but depends on a particular action, belief or conviction by the person in question then how so can it not be lost?

Analice107, An2elect2, KingEbukasBlog. This OP is for you lot I guess invite others

stephenmorris:
spectranet is better ,you will have unlimited data at night and subscription is 10 k permonth

E dey Enugu?

KingEbukasBlog:
I said God to me is the First Cause since it is the necessary being , the reason for the existence of everything . It is Supreme , having the power to create or sustain everything that exists including our universe (having in mind the possibility that God could create other realities different from ours and has to power to sustain them including Itself )

To this I asked, is this first cause God by the virtue of being the first cause or creator or is it God whether or not it was the first cause or creator.

We want to understand the underlying usage of the word God, we need to established a capped definition of God as we are going to use it in order to derive meaning.

But with the understanding of what atheism stands for , this does not make the First Cause a God . Like I told PastorAIO , an atheist does not want you to confer godhood upon any entity .

like I gave an example with desktop in order to confer the title of God on anyone or entity you must define Godhood so we can establish what and what falls under the God umbrella.

If the word can be used anyhow we deem fit then it is meaningless.

E.g let me wear my God to the mall now.

What does God mean in this sentence? It can be anything but since it isn't specific (doesn't have any specific meaning) its useless and meaningless to use.

So in order to confer Godhood on anything you must first give reasons why that thing ceases to be same.

So the burden to define God is on the atheist because He rejects the deification of just any entity including the First Cause . That is no entity is worthy to be called God to an atheist . You dig?

Quite the contrary here brother, you are the one who uses the word "God", who confers it on anything you like, how is it so that someone else needs to define it for you?

On this particular thread I am not saying no entity is worthy to be called God, I am only asking " what does it mean to be God?"

KingEbukasBlog:
The orthodox definition of a God is an entity that controls the totality or part of reality(god) . But through out history man has conferred godhood or deified entities that do not control the totality or part of reality . So deifying an entity is now personal , each having his own reason as to why an entity is deified .

Brother the question is: what is deification?

Deicide:
I am not saying that they are not individuals in the bible that might have actually existed

Yeah i get it brother.

4kings:

Or maybe too much youtube

Guilty as charged

Deicide:
Exaggerated facts you mean?

Not really i only pointed out Xerxes son of Darius as the fact, what ever thing you regard exaggerated wasn't part of the thing i mentioned

stephenmorris:
in 10 days mtn don chop almost 5 k for my hand ,their data dey quickly finish

Ayam juss tired.. 10k under 2weeks them chop me, na winch be this?

this must be my village people at work

4kings:
Haaa, i don forget say na dat side you dey..
No worry Hahn go come to the rescue

BTW, you didn't upload that your debate video again...

Them no send the video give me oo. I will disturb them again shaaa

4kings:
lol
get ntel...
No cash on me for now...

Ntel no dey Enugu naa

KingEbukasBlog:
Well I think anything deified is a god . The entity with the big "G" is the necessary non contingent being behind the existence of the universe . A clearer understanding of atheism shows that the existence of the being is not rejected , its deification is .

What does it mean to deify something or someone?

4kings:
@ Johnydon22
Brilliant!!! mehn...
Miss you bro...

Miss you all too brother, as MTN drink my 22gb under 2weeks i don swear say i no go buy data again.. If una go buy me data i go dey come online well well

KingEbukasBlog:
Yeah , like I said in the post before this .

therefor in order to bring up God or glory as a subject we must first of all define what glory or God is for that particular purpose.

Which glory are you talking about here ? The beauty of the sandals ?

And the point is becoming more clear, which glory am i talking about here which then falls on me to define the glory i am talking about.

Therefore the whole argument rest on a need for definition.

Exactly .

If the state of Godhood is just a notion conceived in the human mind that can be conferred on "ANYTHING" we want then this makes the word GOD to lack meaning.

for instance: If i refer to my phone as a sandal.
what then is a sandal? if i define a sandal as something worn on the feet to protect me from the ground.

the next question is; Does my phone then fall into this definition of sandal?

if No. then how is it a sandal?

this also can be applied to the usage of the word "God"
if i refer to my sandal as "GOD" on what rope do i hang this statement?

is there a particular definition i base my conferment of God on the sandal? if not, then why is it no longer a sandal?

Meaning is a child of definition and definition begets reason, to confer a notion without reason makes the notion in itself meaningless.

Well ...

so my brother how do we define God?

Is God defined as anything we say God is?

if this is so then God as a word may yet be meaningless as "Christian atheism" defines it.

KingEbukasBlog:
Nope . It could different things to different people.

Which begs the question, what does it mean here?

God to me means the First Cause or the Necessary Being whose existence is the reason why anything exists.

So is the sole position of being the first cause makes God God to you or is God still God whether he/she/it was the first cause or not?

God to a pantheist is the totality of everything . God to a panentheist is the soul of the universe .

So now we are getting a definition which now breaks down into many subjective meanings taking us back to my first post, it is a problem of definition. The position of an atheist can only be ascertained if you bring out a definition of God to work with here.

So its not meaningless

For something to be meaningful it must have definition, so yes if you define God then God is meaningful but if God can be conferred on anything and everything without definition or underlying essence then it is meaningless.

But the meaningfulness of atheism with this understanding is elusive , so please can you help me find it ?

it is very simple actually like i said before, arguments of definition can only be put to rest by coining an established definition.

Let me throw in another analogy to demonstrate.

If we define a desktop computer as any computer that can be used while on a desk this is a definition.

I can then tell you that my laptop is a desktop, you must ask why?

What makes my laptop a desktop?

I will simply answer that based on the definition of desktop above, my laptop is currently on a desk therefore it is a desktop.

I have given a reason why i regard my laptop to be a desktop meaning that there is a coined definition of desktop, if i give such an answer as the word "desktop" can be conferred on any computer, this is vague and lacks definition.

So the Pantheist might say that the universe is God, an atheist or agnostic if you will can simply reply "well i just call it the universe"

if you have no established reason or definition to root your basis of referring to the universe as God then the word "God" in reference to the universe is not binding and unnecessary since we already have an established alias for creation which is "universe or cosmos"

If you say God means the first Cause, one can simply say under which reason is the first cause God, by what definition can we label the first cause God or what makes the first cause God or what is the first cause.

Or then What is God?

KingEbukasBlog:
The appellation "God" can be conferred upon anything just anything

OK totally cool. This then makes the very noun "God" meaningless doesn't it?

KingEbukasBlog:
I think I get what you mean . Glory has different meanings . The glory an atheist appreciates could be the beauty of the universe and the magnificence of its complexity .

Glory has different meaning? Uuuuhm then this got me thinking could God then have different meaning?

If the Glory of an atheist has a less divine awe but natural could we then take it that to an atheist making your sandal God doesn't make it take more divine nature?

Could it be then that the state of Godhood is conceived sorely in the human mind to be conferred on anything they deem fit just like a title?

A different Glory!

PastorAIO:
johnydon22, I troway salute o! How you dey?

I am fine boss.. Being a while I bothered contributing here

KingEbukasBlog:
I think answering your question will make atheism much more vague . I think its more of a personal choice and reason to deify an entity , that is to treat it as a god . Let's not forget this : "God" is simply a title . And from the diversity of religion , we can see clearly that an object of worship and veneration isn't necessarily a god .Example : Confucianism where spirits of ancestors are worshiped and even offered rituals but these spirits are not seen as gods for reasons best known to the religion .

Whether the universe is created or eternal , the mind behind its existence is extremely powerful because the universe is still contingent on Its existence i.e even though the universe may have coexisted with God from past infinitude , God can still end its existence .

Even the pantheists do not reject totally the existence of the First Cause or separate conscious entity outside the universe , they believe everything is God . This means , both the First Cause and the universe is God i.e the universe is simply part of totality of God . Interesting !

So I think this means that atheism does not the deny the existence of an entity because it is deified , it rejects the deification of an entity . Atheism now clearly more than ever , does not deny the existence of the entity behind the existence of the universe , it simply rejects its deification .

But how did we miss this ? Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God/gods . This clearly shows that a creator or entity powerful enough to create or sustain the existence of the universe logically exists but atheists believe that its not a God .

To the atheist , nothing should be seen as as a God.

cc : PastorAIO

Lengthy but still not helping me, your post totally steered clear the problem I raised from the OP.

What is God?

On this thread do we have an established definition of God we can work with?

Is there something that makes someone, an external mind or something God that we can define on this thread to be sure what we mean by God?

Or is God anything we say it is?

As I have said: its an argument of definition, let us define God as we are to use it here then we can progress.

What is God?

What makes God, God?

Martinez19:
You seem to have matured and become more objective in religious discourse. Like a pure truth seeker.

hahaha

felixomor:
By their fruits you shall know them.
Most atheists were once Christians also.

Lol ok no need

Deicide:
There is no one single fact in the Bible

LOL. Yes there is; Xerxes the son of Darius can be found in the bible.

Deicide:
oh all religion is wrong but my emphasis was on Abrahanism being evil and bad the evidence is around us

wrong about what?

Robynwelo1:
Religious folks have abandoned the world for an afterlife...Simply put, they have been brainwashed into believing that the world is not their home.

This didn't give the world nuclear weapons though. Belief in afterlife yes i may agree can diminish the value of this world, yes a belief in a higher purpose diminishes the worth of the imminent purpose, this is true.

But let us not be quick to condemn this belief, belief in afterlife developed as a possible solution to the question that mankind has always asked "Who are we?" "what are we doing here?"

we are vulnerable as we are young species, lost in the vastness of eternity and haunted by the eventuality of our death, nothing in life is more certain that death, nothing more perfect or more sure than the truth of death.

We are helpless in the face of this certainty so it is no surprise that we may come up with ways to comfort ourselves, we may find ways to make ourselves feel good on our impending doom.

Belief is the source of hope even if it is a lie. You may prefer the hard straight truth but if the whole world told the truth we would all be cold and straight, hope brings warmth and ease and belief in afterlife brings this to our vulnerable minds.

Imagine a world where everybody understands the importance of their input in this world

A Nihilist may ask the question "To what end?" after all we all die, it all ends after everything like it never happened, in the whiff of a second we vanish into the cosmic ocean like a momentarily cosmic blink without notice?

Which ever way we chose to see the world the end is always the bane of our thoughts, the peak of our questions.

...giving their all into sustaining it knowing they have only one life to live, we would all be living in reality and not fantasy. But the deed has already been done.

A world everyone is living in reality? We don't even have a total grasp of what is real, how can we all possibly live in reality?

we don't even understand what we are yet, we don't even know what the universe or the cosmos is, so i ask - what is reality?


I really understand the reasons why all these stories and belief in afterlife, of heaven and paradise crop up in the human mind, why all these philosophies and emotional clutch to a comforting tale defines a huge part of our belief

It is because of the vulnerability of our being.

Being that almost certainly we are probably the only species amongst all in this planet that know at a very young age that we would die one day.

This knowledge of our inevitable end is somewhat like a burden to us .

I doubt that other species Chimpanzee, dogs , elephants even though alive as we are are fretting over an afterlife or performing rituals to earn a place in paradise or somewhere else outside the cosmos.

so would you blame us?

Martinez19:
The fact that atheists disagree and can disprove religious gods doesn't mean that we rule out the possibility of a God. All we are saying is that religion is not the answer and truth.

How does not believing in lies and deception translate to a mental illness or disease?

That's not really what atheism is, atheism is on a first sense the belief that no deity exists or disbelief that any deity exist. doesn't necessarily oppose religion or is anti-religion

4EVERG0D:
Wereey, olopolodudu, I am not an atheist, not a theist, I am Unconcerned.

BTW, I av achieved my aim. Ur brain is too weak. My brain detector machine tot ur brain is a pack of brown shiit.

In additn, Emmaystone who commented last in January 11 suspects Otem? How did he even know who OtemAtum is? I'm suspecting him as 4evergod.

I like the word you used, unconcerned. tags and label puts you within a sphere, we should be open, our mind free like a running water. Don't follow a pack, having no label makes it more difficult for people to define you and to define you people tend to make false assumptions and take them as truth.

felixomor:
You are an atheist
Go and Sleep

LOL she is not An2elect2 has been on this forum far too long before you, she's in fact one of the most fanatical christians i have ever known here. Don't go about accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you as an atheist, life is far more complicated than theism and atheism. Christians can always and have always never agreed with each other on doctrinal matters

KingEbukasBlog:
The pantheists believe the universe is god . The idol worshipers basically worship and deify anything from living things to inanimate objects . We logical theists believe in the existence of God , the First Cause , the precursor of everything that exists- the mind behind the existence of the universe

Nowadays , just anything can be called god . I can wish to call my mobile device , my shoe , toenail 'god' . You get the picture now right ?

So my people here is my question :

Is Atheism the rejection of the deification of an entity or is it the denial of the existence of an entity because its a deity or god ?

Very good question but then one look at the problem raised one can deduce it is just a argument of definition, a pinch of a precise definition is enough to put everything at rest for such an argument.

I can even explain such argument with same analogy that can be used to explain the true scotsman fallacy.

Pay attention: Every man from Scotland is a scotsman

the statement above is the definition of a scotsman, once you are from scotland you are a scotsman by definition.

I may come along and say a true scotsman is any man that can close one eye and leave the other open for a minute. this redefinition automaticlly changes what a scotsman is to my audience if they employ my later definition.

By employing my definition any man in the world, even a man from Nigeria can be a scotsman as long as he can close one eye for a minute.

So what exactly is a scotsman?

That is the argument of definition that you have just raised. I can call anything God by my definition, so if an atheist says there is no God does he also say my Shoe that i call a God does not exist or is not a God?

Well my shoe can be God but also cannot be God.

It depends on your employment of a certain definition, A man from Nigeria can be a scotsman by a certain definition and will not by another definition.

So the question is: What is God?

what makes something God?
is there an essence that makes someone or something God?
are there characters that you must exhibit then you become a God?


What is God?

Once we establish this definition i think we can then use it as a sieve to answer the question, if we on this thread are going to have a precise definition of God we are going to work with then we can comfortably define what we believe or what we dont, we can devise a category of how we place the validity of what God is or not on this thread based on our coined definition.

I have once asked on a thread on creation and God: Is God God because it created the universe or is it God whether or not it created the universe?

another way of asking, is God still god even if it didnt create the universe?

what makes God, God?

Cc. PastorAIO being a while brother

Robynwelo1:
Religion destroyed the world. I think it's an irreparable damage.

explain

Deicide:
By religion, if you mean Abrahamism then yes Abrahamism is very Bad for the world

Only Abrahamism? What makes other religion any less wrong than Abrahamism?