₦airaland Forum

Odunayaw:
Brazil and Turkey for example have been suppliers to NA.

If NA can go as far as South Korea to buy APCs I think NA just doesn't prioritise IFVs as we want

Apart from the second hand IFVs bought from Jordan, I don't see any other IFVs NA has purchased.

Nigerian Air Force T-129 ATAK Helicopter.

Why doesn't the Nigerian army pivot towards purchasing IFVs?

Like we've seen in the war in Ukraine, while Tanks are super important IFVs are crucial, perhaps more crucial than Tanks.

Watcharena:
why can't we buy from russia their equipment are cost effective and we can easily maintain them compared to what we have been buying from west. Another thing is that the west will not sell their latest equipment to us,we call only buy old equipment from. The helicopters Nigeria recently bought each one can get us like two Russian alligator

The fact of the matter is we wouldn't be able to buy Russian military equipment today, while I agree it makes more sense to buy 18 x units of the T-129 over 6 units T-129 and 12 x units AH-1Z it's important that we diversify our assets.

Watcharena:
why can't we buy from russia their equipment are cost effective and we can easily maintain them compared to what we have been buying from west. Another thing is that the west will not sell their latest equipment to us,we call only buy old equipment from. The helicopters Nigeria recently bought each one can get us like two Russian alligator

I consider the KA-52 to be arguably the world's best Attack Helicopter, certainly the world's most survivable Attack Helicopter.

However Russian helicopters are not cheap, Russian aircrafts are not cheap either.

American defence deals usually come with maintenance, infrastructure, weaponry, training, spares and the hardware as full cycle proposals.

It's not really the same with Russian aircrafts as customers can choose to buy Russian aircrafts with weaponry alone without related infrastructure.

The advantage the Russians have is you can use their equipment any how you like with no strings attached, Russian hardware is also very survivable. At least the T-90M, SU-25, KA-52, SU-34 and Lancet have all proven this in combat.

It's true that Nigeria might not be able to buy the F-35 from America, however the Americans have sold us the AH-1Z which is a state of the art aircraft. We can also buy the F-16V from the US if we request for it.

This is the AKPWS. It's not an ATGM but it's effective against light armoured vehicles like the M113 and light armoured tanks.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V092M25KeUA?si=w93e6FXSecgqK5Xm

Odunayaw:
I admitted in my original post that the Atak is not free from the long hands of the US but it has less strings attached e.g weapons suites, mission computers.

I can almost imagine some daft Senator hearing a sensational CNN talking about a crisis in Plateau and fiam our attack capabilities are gone because that Senator goes on Wikipedia and sees the US flag under the manufacturer column of our arsenal.

The onus falls on us to use our American made military equipment in the most compliant manner, this is why the military has invested heavily in ISR capabilities.

We will not have problems with our American assets if we admit errors where they happen and carry out investigations like when are now currently doing.

Even Israel is under pressure using American equipment, not to talk of Nigeria.

bidexiii:
Why not the J-10, For me over-reliance on western hardware is enough headache.

Yes, the J-10 is another good option.

While I agree over-reliance on Western hardware is problematic, we can't buy from Russia.

You will see that we're currently pivoting to Turkey, but Turkish hardware is not really Turkish, it's made primarily from western parts.

bidexiii:
Is there anyway Nigeria can go ahead and by from Russia ?

Some countries like Egypt, Morocco,Belarus, Algeria and some Asians countries can still go ahead and buy military hardware without minding uncle's sam sanctions.

There's no way we can buy anything from Russia that will aide or has the potential to aide Russian campaign in Ukraine.

The Americans will wreck Nigeria and it will not be pretty for us. I don't see any military equipment Egypt, Morocco even Algeria are buying from Russia. Morocco is a major ally of the US in North Africa. They don't usually buy equipment from Russia.

ocelot2006:
I don't know why we didn't stick to the Mi-35m Hinds. I'm totally not comfortable with our Cobra purchase at all.

The AH-1Z is a significantly better aircraft than the MI-35M.

As it is, what we need now is to follow up this purchase with at least a squadron of F-16V fighter jets.

Faithful007:
There are no sort of sanctions hindering you from buying choppers from Russia. It just isn't a wise decision at this time. EU sanctions on Russia has clogged the supply chain of raw material from Europe to Russia making production and deliveries difficult. Russia has a number of backlogs at the moment and has not even commenced production of existing orders for important allies. Most especially, the ongoing war has also redirected military production to artillery and ammunition as well as logistics and repair of equipment. There is little room for exports and foreign logistics.

The only to get mi35 quickly would be to look for resellers within Europe. Then figure out the network of cut-throat middlemen and third-party parts resellers that will help you service and maintain them for an arm and a leg.

There are sanctions preventing Nigeria from buying Russian military equipment, there was CAATSA before the war in Ukraine and I'm positive these have been strengthened.

The Nigerian economy depends heavily on American expertise, there are also deep cultural ties, the Americans will wreck Nigeria if we procure military equipment from Russia, especially now.

The T-129 is an excellent aircraft, so is the AH-1Z. While it will make logistical sense to buy a single type, Ukraine currently use multiple equipment types and have been able to maintain all of them despite the full blown war with Russia.

Odunayaw:
We are not a country that funds terrorism in our neighbourhood and are sworn enemies of the Asian next door so it's not the same thing.

You don't understand my comment.

I'm saying to you the T-129 is as susceptible to sanctions as the AH-1Z.

The T-129 depends heavily on American parts, it's engine, the core of the helicopter is American.

Odunayaw:
It's not free but there is less string attached

Tell that to Pakistan.

Hulu:
I heard the prices were negotiated down to $455m
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That's the base price for the helicopters excluding weapons, training, spareparts and infrastructure.

kabe1:
Breaking ‼️ |
In an official statement issued on its website, state owned Indonesian Aerospace (PTDI) has announced it is currently in the process of securing a new export contract for 4x CN235-220 multipurpose aircrafts for the Nigerian Air Force.

The deal is being negotiated through Allied Aeronautics Limited (AAL) a local company in Nigeria.

President Director of PTDI Gita Amperiawan revealed this will be the first export order PTDI obtains in 2024.

This would be a very good deal for Nigeria if confirmed.

The Nigerian Air Force air lift arm is currently short on critical assets with the C-130 doing a huge percentage of the hauling of materials and personnel.

The Air Force used to have a good number of G-222 and DO-228 for transport.

The CN-235 and C-295 the service plans to induct would greatly improve our life capabilities.

Again if this is confirmed, there'll be no real need for the KC-390, it would be best for the Air Force to go for the C-130J variant.

If we can get the C-130J-30 even better.

Nigerian Navy Special Forces Conducting Beach Landscaping, Shore raiding Exercise.

bidexiii:
@kabe1 what type of weapon are those NA soldiers wielding ?

It's some type of modernized SMG which used to be popular in the 80s and 90s.

Nigeria Police Force training Air Force Personnel on crowd control.

Nigerian Soldiers Provide close protection for UNISFA Commander in South Sunday

jl115:
- I never said it can't take off from dirt runways however in the long run turbofans will need more maintenance than Turboprops due to dust exposure, this is a well known fact.

- During the border war quiet a lot actually

- What's the infrastructure like....Africa vs Ukraine? also the A400m is quite small compared to the likes of the C17, An-124, Y20 ect ect

There's no evidence that the Turbofan will perform consistently over an extended period flying from unpaved surfaces.

All Airplanes require routine maintenance after flight, whether Turbofan or Turboprop.

You showed 1 picture of the C-130 flying from an unpaved surface, provide us with the raw numbers of flights from paved and unpaved surfaces.

A400M is a Strategic airlifter, this isn't even up for debate.

jl115:
- I never said it can't take off from dirt runways however in the long run turbofans will need more maintenance than Turboprops due to dust exposure, this is a well known fact.

- During the border war quiet a lot actually

- What's the infrastructure like....Africa vs Ukraine? also the A400m is quite small compared to the likes of the C17, An-124, Y20 ect ect

Excuse me, are you saying Ukraine has better infrastructure than African countries?

Is this what you're saying?

jl115:
- Shorter take off and landing distance is evidence, as is turboprop vs turbofan....it's no secret that turbofans don't like dust.

- Source?? they are nearly 3 times the unit price but what are the maintenance figures? where did you get that it costs 4 times more to operate?

- It is exactly what I said it is. It certainly is a tactical airlift which can carry strategic loads.

What are the limitations except for the price?

From the video above, you can see the C390 takeoff from dirt runways without issues.

Besides how many times have you seen South African C-130s takeoff from dirt runways?

Even in the raging Russia -Ukraine war, we haven't seen heavy transport planes takeoff from dirt runways.

ocelot2006:
Our C130s need to be replaced, BUUUUUT can the Brazilian plane perform same tasks like the C130 like take off from short unprepared dirt strip for tactical airfreight ops? What's it's capacity compared to the C130? Those air intakes of those jet engines on dirt runways.......dunno mean. Still, beautiful bird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivM6nlo9DOU?si=6_ecVDZh_HdiWYK0

Airshow in Nigeria!!

jl115:
For 1 Turboprop vs Turbofan.........Turboprop will always be better for landing on unprepared runways where dust is a factor. Turboprops are also easier to fix in remote places.

Secondly the A400M has much shorter take off and landing distances as well

All in all the A400M was designed specifically as a tactical airlift that could carry strategic loads.

overall it's a better aircraft than the c390(as a strategic and tactical airlift), however it costs nearly 3 times more. That said I'm a fan of the C390, and for a turbofan it does have very good tactical airlift capabilities and certainly a good replacement for the C130, the cost also makes it attractive to countries like SA and Nigeria

No evidence the A400M performs better than the KC-390 in unprepared surface. The C-390 millennium performance on dirt tracks is excellent, there are free resources online that prove this.

The A400M costs nearly 4 times more to operate and maintain.

That's not a tactical airlifter.

Overall if your plan is to fly over Nigeria and west Africa at most, you have no business with the A400M. It's a very good aircraft but limitations are significant if you don't have a huge pursue.

jl115:
actually the A400M has better tactical airlift capability than the C390

Proof it?

Odunayaw:
It'd take some lengthy discussion for you to explain how the C-390 is better than the A400M o

......my statement is primarily in a Nigerian context. The C-390 is a tactical airlift aircraft while the A400M is a strategic airlift aircraft.

In a Nigerian context the C-390 is a much better fit when all parameters are considered.

The cost benefit is also much better.

Faithful007:
This has more payload, than the C295 which is around the same price, they're roughly the same range but the KC 390's jet engines mean more maintenance costs.

Hungary signed a contract for 2 x units for $285.7 million.

This means each aircraft is coming in at over $142 million, maintenance and training included.

That's not roughly the same price as the C-295.

The C-290 is a modern aircraft which is proving to be more competitive than the C-130J and certainly better than the A400M when all things are considered.

NAF C-130s are now nearing their expected lifespan, hopefully we get in replacements soon enough.

Oliveira said on 7 February that the demonstration, which took place as part of the KC-390's route to WDS 2024 that saw it depart Brazil and fly to Nigeria, Malta, and onto Saudi Arabia, showcased the aircraft's tactical air mobility, airdrop, paratrooper, search-and-rescue, and aerial refuelling capabilities, as well as its relative ease of maintenance.

As noted by Janes World Air Forces , the NAF launched a procurement programme between 2014 and 2016 to replace its fleet of C-130 aircraft with 5–10 medium tactical transport aircraft. Platforms offered during the bidding process included the Lockheed Martin C-130J Hercules, the Airbus A400M, and the Shaanxi Y-9 transport aircraft. The KC-390 was not previously named in relation to this requirement, though it now seems to be in the running. A contract is expected to be awarded before 2025.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.janes.com/amp/wds-2024-embraer-demonstrates-kc-390-to-nigeria/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2

Well, well, well!!!

Embraer demonstrates KC-390 military transport aircraft to the Nigerian Air Force |

According to Janes - “Embraer instructor pilot Marco Aurélio Oliveira said that prior to arriving in Saudi Arabia his team had flown three to four days of demonstrations in Nigeria, showcasing the aircraft as a potential replacement for the Nigerian Air Force's (NAF's) ageing fleet of Lockheed Martin C-130H Hercules that has been in service since 1975.”

Odunayaw:
Bell isn't a medium lift helicopter na

The Agusta AW101 or Airbus H225 (Superpuma family that we already have experience with). 24 passengers at a go.


The Medium Airlift Group of NAF deserve attention if there is any left to give sha

Yes, the Bell 412 isn't a medium lift, I added it because we already have 2 units in service and they can complement the S-70 should we go for it.