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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 11:07pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
coogar: But it's not about club achievements. I may have agreed with you if the English had done well in previous tournaments but they haven't done anything since euro 96. I just won't rate the English team until it wins or at least loses a major final. Also unnecessary hyping of certain players also ensures that better players are often over-looked in favour of popular players. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 10:47pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
chic2pimp: But Hansen, and by extension coogar, is right about the Makelele role Makelele Role - for those midfield anchors who can't join attack or are instructed not to join attack. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 10:42pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
coogar: On paper English journos have always believed their teams have been good enough to win most tournaments. Its the same thing every two years; hope followed by disappointed. I don't believe England will ever win a top tournament unless they get a coach like Mou and win like Greece did in 2004. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 9:24pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
raumdeuter: Ibime What do you want to do with the Gerrard video? Abeg let Gerrad be. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:57pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
afrodoc2: At the risk of sounding redundant, did I link the quality of the French league to when Makelele was playing in it? I merely provided the overall winners by country to highlight that the French League is not a top tier league. In the history of the champions League, France has provided only one winner. Is that not a fact? I won't belabour the point. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:52pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: Katsumoto should have just respected himself and chilled...See as manyoo and chelsea fans collabo dey ganngbang am Where is the Bleep? You don't have to refer to every debate as a battle; its a bit juvenile. There are people of both sides of the debate. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:45pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
afrodoc2: First - I didn't restrict the time frame in my assertion. I gave overall stats for Champions League winners. So I don't quite get where the misleading came in. Or when I provided a list of winners, I should have provided the list of finalists, semi-finalists, qtr-finalists, 2nd rounders, etc? Second - Only one French team won in the 90s and overall. Third - How could the French league be second toughest when you consider the following winners 1. Italy - 3 - 2. Spain - 2 3. England - 1 4. Germany - 1 5. France - 1 6. Holland - 1 7. Yugoslavia - 1 If we start counting the number of semi-final participation by country, I doubt France would be second. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:22pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
afrodoc2: Misleading is an inaccurate term. I didn't restrict my assessment to the 90s or any other decade. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:19pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
afrodoc2: How is it misleading? Has France won more than 1 ECL? Was Makelele in the team that won the only French ÈCL title? The debate wasnt about which league was stronger in the 90s or 80s or 70s. I stated the the french league is 2ns tier and i was being kind. Its more like 3rd tier. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 7:49pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
coogar: That's like me saying 'I am not as rich as Zuckerberg because I love working as a ........... (whatever that is)'. Makelele stats 0 goals - Madrid 94 apps 2 goals - Chelsea - 144 apps 1 goal - .PSG 98 apps 0 goals - France 71 apps Its no wonder we have to go all the way back to the mid-90s to find footage of attacking play. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 7:37pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Ibime: After seeing the video, they claimed it was in an easier league. Forgetting the same Makelele led his team to UCL semifinal. Champions league Winners by Country Spain - 14 England 12 Italy - 12 Germany - 7 Netherlands - 6 Portugal - 4 France - 1 Scotland - 1 Romania - 1 Yugoslavia - 1 Yes the French league is ultra elite in Europe; so competitive it has won as much ECL titles as Romania and Scotland. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 6:10pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: That there is the crux of the debate - why was Makelele unable to that when he played for Madrid and Chelsea? Your position, based on what you are stating, is that Makelele didn't do it because he was given instructions. I posit that Makelele didn't do it in the tougher leagues because he was limited. Paul Ince wasn't even a box-to-box DMF but he scored many goals for united; why couldn't Makelele do that? Ditto for Hamann at Newcastle and Liverpool. And yes, I do have Jesus. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 5:49pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: First - I don't see the difference between what you stated and how I phrased you. The key point to note in your statement is that box-to-box is given license to bomb forward while anchor isn't given that license. Second - a defender can operate as a center forward ..... with varying levels of efficiency off course (your words and logic). Since the level of efficiency is not so important, I wonder why coaches don't replace strikers with defenders when the strikers are not delivering. Why not switch the roles of Torres and Cahill? Just a thought. If you of course agree that efficiency is important do you mind explaining why Vieira was selected more times than Makelele for France? Or why Davids started more games than Aron Winter when both were in the Dutch Team? 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 5:11pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: In essense your point is that all MFs have the ability to be box-to-box? The only difference between MFs is with instructions giving to them and not actual ability? Ok thats a new one and its noted. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 5:07pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Bimfo: Nairaland. Ehn There is nothing I wont Read.. Essien replaced Makelele Loool People that dont know anything about the Modern Chelsea trying to say something.. Why was Essien bought? To play as a left back? Some of you come up with all kinds of ridiculous terms to make you seem more knowledgeable about football Makelele role Ball watchers Modern Chelsea I watch football more than you Now tell us- what is modern Chelsea? |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 4:45pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
nateevs: Who or what is a ball watcher? Would I be correct in assuming you are not a ball watcher? If you are not a ball watcher, what would you be? Please advise. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 4:43pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: We all know the differences between an anchor and a box-to-box MF. Box-to-box is an upgarde on an anchor because the box-to-box can defend as well as attack. If you could buy a car would you buy one without air-conditioning or one with air-conditioning? Both will get you from Lagos to Ibadan but only one will give you comfort in 30 degrees heat. Why was it Vieira who replaced Deschamps in the French squad and not Makelele? Makelele got into the French squad before Vieira but it was Vieira who replaced Deschamps, became captain, and had over 30 more caps than makelele despite being 3 years younger and making his debut 2 years after Makelele? Simply because a box-to-box MF is better than an anchor. Almost all box-to-box MFs are starters for club and country - Gerrard, Vidal, Toure, Vieira, Keane, Davids, Matthaus, Pogba. Davids played with Zidane, arguably the greatest of his generation; why was Davids not asked by his coaches at Juvey to just sit in front of the back four in an ultra-defensive league? Keane played with Scholes; why was there a need for Keane to move forward. Yet Makelele played with lampard and still refused to move beyond the center circle. Yes we were shown footage of Makelele in Nantes; now show us footage of Makalele advancing in Celta Vigo, Madrid or Chelsea. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 3:56pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: Davids played the same game as Makelele and did more; it wasn't different. Davids, Keane, Vieira were all anchor men who HAD the ABILITY to go forward in top tier football. We have seen footage of Makelele doing the same in a second tier French league but not in Spain or England. Davids started in the second tier as well but moving to a top league (Seria A), he did not become limited. He excelled at Juvey. Makelele played a different game in France than what he played in Spain and England because he was simply limited. Essien who replaced Makelele went forward more than Makelele or why wasn't Essien also just a sitter Bale changed position to enhance the skill he has; Makelele didn't change position; he only stopped going forward in superior leagues possibly because his coaches and himself likewise realised he didn't have what it took to play box-box in top tier football. Mikel is another example of a Makelele; he regressed as a footballer. Whatever Mikel may have done in Norway, he never attempted to replicate at Chelsea. Was it not the same Mikel we saw at the WC who kept slowing the Nigerian game down and did fork all? Training and actual matches are very different things. The pressure and opposition are different. We can all do things when we have time to do it without the concomitant pressure. The best students at Uni don't usually become the most successful in life. Anyway I have made my point; I won't belabour the point any further. Makelele was an excellent anchor but he wasn't the best because he was limited, at least in a top tier league. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 2:30pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
Nihilist: I think you missed my point. The anchor men who are better than Makelele were all able to showcase their skillset in all the leagues they played in. If Makelele could only showcase more skillset in France but not in Spain and England, then he is limited. Davids, Rijkaard, Matthaus, Vieira, Simeone, etc all did it at the highest level; why was Makelele only able to show his skills in France? Like I said, championship players are able to score magnificent goals in the championship but not in the premiership - the quality of opposition is key in determining whether you have a skill or not. If you take your 5/6 yr old nephews and their friends for a kick-about, I am sure you would display Messi like skills. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 1:55pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
nateevs: The sound of quiet. Hehehe. The moment when folks realise oops! Makalele wasn't limited. Ibime brings sanity to the board. The quality of the league matters. Why is it that players that score incredible goals in the championship can't replicate such goals in the premiership. Don't teams who win the Championship, move up to the Premiership, end up being relegated? Don't get me wrong, Nantes was a good team but shoe get size. The french league is second tier in Europe. What did Makelele do in Spain and in England? and what was is consistency? What are his stats in terms of goals, assists, key passes? Isn't it ironic that a Chelsea supporter has to use footage from when Makelele played for Nantes to showcase his 'skills'? After Nantes he went to Marseille, Celta Vigo, Real Madrid and then Chelsea. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 2:54am On Sep 07, 2014 |
chic2pimp: If we weren't banned for 5 years from European competition, the drought wouldn't have been that long. It would have been from 1990 to 2004. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 12:02am On Sep 07, 2014 |
chic2pimp: This was the same Madrid that won two CL titles in 1998 and 2000 (with Redondo as Anchor 98, 2000 and Captain in 2000) before Makelele joined. Now Makelele is the reason Madrid didn't win for 10 years. Nevermind that Chelsea didn't win the CL with Makelele. 2 Likes |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 9:29pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
If you take a poll for the greatest MF Anchors ever, Makelele would not make top 5 and may not even make top 10. He was too limited. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 9:26pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
coogar: Matthaus was a MF Anchor and he was a brilliant one at that. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 9:22pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
coogar: So Italian fans must not have been impressed with Tardelli's goal in the 82 WC because they weren't obsessed with stats and only wanted their MF Anchor to sit in front of the defense. Madrid winning the Champions league 10 years after the last one had nothing to do with Makelele. Did Madrid not win without Makalele? Or did Chelsea win the CL with Makelele? Makelele did what he was meant to do but others did as he did and did more. He was exceptionally limited. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 8:11pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
coogar: That Makelele was limited in skillset is an issue for Makelele; it shouldn't remove from others who can actually join attack from time to time. It is like saying that a Tahoe is better than a Mercedes GL because it can go from point A to B and is not bothered by all the expensive gizmos in the GL. Makelele was very good at breaking up play but he was very limited. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 7:53pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
coogar: There were others who were much better than Makelele and these actually won the WC or Euros - Ardiles, Tardelli, Rijkaard, Mauro Silva, Deschamps |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 7:48pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
chic2pimp: Such ignorant words are usually coined by folk who don't watch much football and usually by England based followers. Nothing Makelele did that wasnt done by Souness, Rijkaard, Ardiles, Tardelli, Effenberg. Makelele role my ar.se. 1 Like |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 2:34pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
hensben: 2006 world cup, zidane, viera and makelele was french midfield trio...viera was a box-to-box midfielder like yaya toure now, gilberto sylva was DMF for arsenal then. So a report written by another is the basis for your position? Makelele role my left bum cheek. There were solid anchor men b4 Makelele and there have been solid ones after him. Makelele is not even the best anchor ever. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Katsumoto: 2:09pm On Sep 06, 2014 |
hensben: Redondo is not even known as world DMF,he is not even in top 10 of all time. Makelele make everyone to be familiar with that position in the world of football. Are you suggesting Makelele is the reason everyone is aware of DMF? Someone needs to show you tapes of games for the last 40 years. What position did the following play: Effenberg, Van der Elst, Mauro Silva, Wim Jansen, Billy Bremmer, Clodoaldo, Frank Rikgaard, Edgar Davids, Vieira, Ardiles? And Redondo was a solid Anchor. Was Makelele not 3rd choice behind Deschamps and Vieira? Makelele was a disciplined Anchor no doubt but to put the emergence of that role to him is inaccurate. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Katsumoto: 11:32pm On Sep 05, 2014 |
coogar: hahaha i made no predictions the last time. my team hasn't won since 1990; i have no business predicting my team will win the league. I would be happy to finish above United again and ecstatic to do the double over you. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by Katsumoto: 11:21pm On Sep 05, 2014 |
Hmmmm I see Utd fans are confident of finishing above Liverpool. Oh well, I guess we shall see. BTW, no predictions for me other than Chelsea or Citeh for the title. |
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