modath:



But it can't EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Be!

It will not happen...

We have quota sytem & federal character & the constitution is all about FREE MOVEMENT.

Small fee disparity, no issue, a 300% hike ?

Wike will be demonised till he gives it up!!!

What has quota system got to do with levying higher fees on out of state students. Surely the fees apply only to the Institutions that Rivers state runs and not University of Port Harcourt which is owned by the Fed Government.

If Rivers invests a significant percentage of its budget on Education, why should students from Bayelsea flood into Rivers at the expense of students from Rivers? If you are from Bayelsa and you want to go to school in Rivers, then be prepared to pay higher fees.

interloper:


but talking about the irish republican expedition and all the drama they put up in the north of ireland . . . . it all came at a very deep price on the society at large, you will be shock to find out more about the atrocities committed by the british secret intelligence community, the Ulster volunteer front, the ulster defense army and the IRA . . . . . they were as bad as one another with the killings, bombings and kidnappings, a very dark era in irish history any wonder they call it "The Troubles".

No i will not recommend such a template for OPC, this so called paramilitary do want to sit on the throne too at the end of the day . . . . .

Please read my post again.

I said the political leadership should be aligned with the military wing. In Nigeria today, that alignment is necessary.

I never suggested that the OPC should start bombing places or killing people. Even though there is peace in Northern Ireland, has the IRA been disbanded? It exists to still provide a balance even if they are in the shadows.

IyaIode:

If you are on ground in naija you wont say this, i take and share pictures of these miscreants in action someday.

Those touts hold their meeting every Tuesday immensed in smoke from indian hemp at the back of a primary school in my old neighborhood, they end their meetings with sporadic gunshots while kids are in their classrooms

But this is because they have lost their way. OPC was useful during OBJ's time.

IlekeHD:
@modath

I think you're right about "out-of-state[region]" tuition thing not working as an alternative source of revenue for the SW region.




Although I still think it's a good process tho, but before we can begin this process of out-of-state anything, we need to first define the premises of "residency" and "state of origin".

Who will be asked to pay [more] and why?

Nigerians are too selfish and archiac for this plant o work. Since everything revolves around tribalism/favorism/etc, it won't work.

This will also help us curb the migration to the SW.


www.nairaland.com/attachments/3097641_ust4_jpega81f1ed3e0448527e9da62fd5f4f6717


I'm seriously begining to hate the backwardness in this country.

I don't see any issues with asking out of state students to pay more. Resources are going to get scarcer in Nigeria and as such, states must ensure that its citizens get the most of out of any spending. Those who are aggrieved should go and task their own sinators, reps, LG Chairmen, and governors to provide better services.

Why should Rivers invest in education, only for kids from other states to benefit? Why protest in Rivers, why not return to your states to protest against your reps?

MayorofLagos:


What role should we attribute to a movement that carries shot guns, doube barrels and are unstoppable by the police?

I am surprised this is coming from you. You don't support OPC in its formative years.

I fully support the existence of OPC although I have lost faith in the leadership at the moment. Just I have lost faith in the political leadership in the SW.

If the SW military wing and Political class could align, the demand for regional integration would be greater and there would be progress. Similar to how Sein Fein and the IRA worked together to get the demands of Northern Irish Catholics met.

MayorofLagos:


Look who is calling me a troublemaker. Yeye

My double edged sword is designed to decapitate a fulani in its forward thrust....and a yanmiri in its recoil swing.

It does not hunt for Yoruba blood so katz is safe. ...unless he brings that kiriji nonsense down here to rabble rouse Lagos.

You seriously want to engage a chap named Katsumoto in sword fight! ! !
The name is not for play bros.

But not to worry, my naija blood is Popo Aguda. I am sure you know what that is. So we are cool.

IlekeHD:



Most quiet and reserved? I give that title to Katsumoto

Thanks dear

MayorofLagos:


We need to be truthful to ourselves. What is sports to a Yorubaman? Where in our history have you read about domination in sports?

Lets put things in perspective....amongst the Negro race Yoruba is far advanced in practices demanding cerebral energy than physical energy. Our physiological makeup is tailored for thoughts, observation, reflection and innovation.

Ibos are excelling in sports because its in their history and they are physically endowed for it. We need to find our comparative advantage and dominate it....in fact monopolise it for its rewards!

Yoruba is world best in Table Tennis. We have consistently dominated Table Tennis in Nigeria and Africa because its a game of calculation and strategy. If Ayo was a international tournament we'd be top rated because it fits in with our makeup - calculation and strategy! Ive been playing snooker and billiards since I was 16, at one time it was my source of income....and I find it muvh more easier to coach a Yoruba person than any other ethnic group because of the ease with which they lock in.

Heroism in Yorubaland is perfected throuvh acts of shrewdness and decoy...hiding your play hands from the opponent! Think of the range of sports that need that skillset...physical sports do not make it.

Heroism in Iboland is recognized in acts of physical bouts - wrestling! The wrestling champion is the village hero. Hence they are built naturally for physical sports and require zero thought process or calculation to win.

Lets give them what belongs to them. Lets find ours and champion it!

The irony of the point you make about physical sports is that there are more Yoruba sons in combat sports than any other group in Naija. I watch a lot of Boxing and UFC and the names I see these days are Yoruba.

Boxing
Anthony Olufemi Joshua - 2012 Olympic Heavyweight Gold medalist and current darling ofHeavyweight Boxing
Larry Ekundayo
Lateef Kayode - very funny chap
Segun Ajose

UFC
Jimi Manuwa
Oluwale Bamgbose

In terms of spread, Yoruba are into more sports although the dominance is only in Table Tennis. The issue I tend to have with Yoruba in sports is one of discipline. Sport requires discipline but current players aren't too disciplined hence the limited success.

raumdeuter:
For those interested in seeing how Aregbesola is doing

https://www.nairaland.com/2749096/aregbesola-set-commission-ejigbo-high

While there is room for improvement, its definitely a blatant lie to say these current APC govt are not doing anything

Paying salary wont bring any development

DK Why now?

Are you suggesting that the previous PDP Osun governor didn't commission any projects?

This is analogous to stating that Jonathan was a success because of improvements in some sectors.

We always have a holistic view before reaching such conclusions.

9jacrip:


At all bro, I hate am.

CabbieAC:
Speaking of Yoruba leaders, katsumoto,Shymm3x,superstar1,Ilekehd and 9jacrip please rewind to page 266 to see the news I posted as regards South-west governors

There are 2 of them.One by Gani fawehinmi's son and the other one from a bishop

They aren't saying anything that has not been said by some of us on this thread.

APC has set its benchmark at the mediocre level of the PDP governors. As far as they are concerned, you have done well if you do more than PDP.

CabbieAC:


Loool I love the emboldened

To me, Faseun hasn't done poo.I don't even see him as an OPC member

Adams has always been at the forefront of everything

The same Adams that sold out to jonathan

Faseun also sold out; i have no faith in OPC for now until they redeem themselves.

StuntingBlack:


Very good tactic BUT this will brew some hell of trouble men!

Fashola's relocation exercise is still a living dilemma for these economic migrants. If SW governors should ever try going that direction of your, it will cause a lot of friction between we and these flateenos (but I really dont care though), 'cos I very sure SW sure we stand to gain while SE stands to lose . But do you think the center will just fold its arms?... I DOUBT IT.

superstar1:



do you want those id1ots across the Niger to be shouting ''genocide''?

Taxation is a legal Fiscal instrument the world over; its use is only limited by its popularity with citizens.

It's not quite the same thing as deporting people.

StuntingBlack:


@ d bold

Not only the chiks but the most alarming is how their guys proliferate the streets of SW everyday. But wait people, is it that our SW governors and policy makers are blind to see that the region is officially overpopulated, or are they just not observant?.... I really dont get it.

Now thats one of our problems. There was one time one of these senseless flateenos insulted us on having high rates of crime and poverty, I had to remind him that if regionalism stands today and everybody is allowed to man his domain, these shiit wont happen. Right now as things are, the SW cant just come up with policies that will help reduce overpopulation in the region since we are stuck. Its bad you know....

Now I don't know the answer to this but what stops State legislators passing legislation with dual taxation? Basically tax people from out of state/region more than they tax indigenes? Individuals and not business. Similarly, state universities charge higher fees for out of state/region students?

The only legal way to stem migration is through taxation. #justsaying

modath:



Thank you olori oko katz, i initially didn't want to contribute when zimoni brought it up cos of my PMB bias & the fact that the south are the tribes that are on the losing end, but like PTDF, like PRESSID..

Govt is told they are spending 100 naira, only 20-30 naira is actually put to use..

So many things need to be cancelled truly ; Tetfund ia another failure, VC/ Governing council receive 50m for project, 25m is kicked back to Tetfund honchos...

Hostels are great in great mess, lecture halls are missing seats, libraries have more books published when our parents were students etc......


You are placing hope in legislathieves ? Issokay..

I, Katsumoto of the Hosokawa Clan of Kyoto, place hope in Nigerian Legislathieves? ? ?

My hope is in citizens waking up and tasking their reps more and making demands for greater control of SW Destiny.

Naijababe - how you doing sister? You forgot about your bro.

OnReflection - how you doing bro? Didn't know you were eGuerilla.

On the cancellation of the PRESSID thingy, it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. The more federal programs are cancelled with states taking up slack, the more decentralized Nigeria would be. With less money projected to be realised from Oil, the FG is sure to cancel more programs. Lets hope that the SW sinators and reps don't fall asleep.

raumdeuter:


I love your entire post but the part in bold is my favourite. The oil income really messed a lot of things up and the plumetting price would end up being good in the long run

Most of Aregbe's scheme and project I usually see people like Wole Soyinka backing them or speaking in favour. That shows Kongi is being consulted and offers his advise on these policies which would make me to believe these were well thought out policies

There are several projects that can be done but when we have a crippling reccuring expenditure you cant make much progress

Ogun can leverage their proximity to Lagos and be an industrail haven

Oyo and Osun can go into intensive Agriculture and tourism. There is a 20M population sitting in Lagos and they have to eat. When you think of it that 80% of the food items we eat in the entire SW come from the North. How many trucks of tomatoes arrive in lagos on a daily basis.

If Oyo and Osun can bite into that food supply market to Lagos and take just 30% away. That would be a great boost to the largely rural population. Of course it has to be mechanized.

I am thinking should agricultural project be left to individuals or should govt go into it also?

Anyone knows what has become of the Shonga farms in Kwara and how its coming on

If govt take up huge farmland, provide equipment train youths on working those mechanised farming, youths willing should be employed on those farms, similar to the OYES but this one everyone works on the farm or in the Public works department where direct labour is used to fix the road instead of sweeping the street. Maybe street cleaning should be left for females. There should be a bus every 2 fridays that transport the farm workers to city to visit their family

Then how do these farm produce get to the market in an efficient manner, I would suggest railway

Also this final step would be controversial. All governors who are in their second term should downsize their public workers by 50%. Retire all teachers teaching irrelevant subjects. Science and Maths teachers should make at least 40% of the teaching workforce

I think every governor should call all LGA chairmen and tell them to think of a way to make their LGA viable or they close down the LGA. Find a way to generate income. Look into your key strenght and suggest how the State govt can help The state govt would fund them 100% first yr, 75% 2nd yr by 4th yr all LGA should be 70% self funded and give a quarterly report of what they are doing. every Saturday invite 2 LGA chairmen on the radio, Let their people call on live TV and give feedback on how the chairman is doing

The amount sent to the chairman should be public info and let them account for it in public too. Tell how many roads you have repaired in your LGA with video evidence and let people call in to back it up

These were what I thought I would do if I ever become Governor of Oyo State

Dayo,

I am sure you remember most of what you typed up there were discussed extensively here on NL 4 years ago when APC won those states from the PDP. You are inadvertently admitting that the Oyo governor hasn't done much. How long should it take these governors to implement these ideas?

laudate:


Egbon, I agree with Transparency and Accountability whole-heartedly. What I do not agree with, is an increase in taxes on already over-burdened taxpayers. I hear only about 50% of the population currently pay tax.

Why can't the state govt capture the remaining 50% that do not pay tax, and devise strategies to ensure their compliance?? That is my point. If taxes can be harnessed from the 50% that are currently not paying their taxes, then tax revenue would increase and there would be no need to increase the burden on the conscientious citizens that are already complying with the law.

So my suggestion is this:
1). Implement citizen-friendly strategies to get tax defaulters to pay up;
2). Enforce transparency and accountability on the collection and utilisation of such taxes;
3). Ensure revenue from such taxes are judiciously utilised and deployed to areas where it would achieve maximum effect.

Excellent - this is what Greece and other Southern European nations have been forced to do. They have had to reduce the underground economy so as to increase tax revenues to pay off their debts.

TerraCotta:


I focused on Lagos when discussing Tinubu because that's the state he governed and had the most direct influence on. He may have been a strong factor in the emergence of other Yoruba governors but it's not the same thing as being the executive. I think it's fair to discuss his achievements with Lagos as the backdrop.



From what I know, increased tax receipts in Lagos funded the construction of the Lekki-Ikoyi bridge, the first stage of the Lagos light rail system, the Lagos HOMS affordable housing developments (Ilubirin estate being a massive example), the indepdent power projects running courts, hospitals and other public buildings in Ikeja, the Ikorodu Road redevelopment and the solar street light project. Those are the infrastructural improvements I can think of offhand and which I've had first-hand experience with as recently as January. It's probably not an exhaustive list and it certainly isn't enough for an economy that's larger than Ghana and Kenya, but it's a start and Tinubu's role in instituting the public finance formula to fund these improvements is hard to dispute.



Well you certainly haven't demonized debt but I know several others have earlier in the discussion and generally on Nairaland, if we're being honest. Again, I don't fault people who don't understand how capital markets and infrastructure finance work, but we're not doing our states and region any services by insisting that being debt-free is some sort of aspirational goal. Public finance worldwide is debt-reliant and even on the corporate side, the most cash-rich companies in the world like Apple and Merck still fund operations with bonds.

I agree without reservation with your other points about lack of accountability, mismanagement and corruption. I'm not willing to condemn all debt if the results are visible.



I have no idea if Keynes is big in Nigerian political circles, but why do you doubt this so strongly? A[b]regbesola's rstionale for his OYES public employment scheme is exactly the same as the New Deal was in depression-era America: give people public-sector jobs to do anything [/b](including transcribing folk songs and sweeping roads) to counter the lack of private-sector employment. They may not dress it up with terms like counter-cyclical investment but the philosophy is the same. Of course, I'm not suggesting that it has been totally effective.



This touches on areas of professional interest for me but even then, I don't want to be arrogant enough to assume I can solve a problem that's been brewing since the early 1970s (when we went into oil production overdrive). For me, the oil price decline is a good thing for Nigeria It will force the central government to manage with less resources and to generate more taxes, or to starve and deal with crippling social unrest. States like Osun will have to develop agricultural assets like cocoa and palm oil for domestic/regional production and consumption not for low-value raw exporting. They can also devote themselves to tourism to the captive Yoruba diaspora. I think you've already mentioned that solid minerals are affected by the worldwide commodity price drops so the gold isn't likely to generate much income in the near-term, but it's about time to reduce raw exporting and move up the value chain in any way possible. Pair these steps with an injection of debt-funded infrastructure development that employs rural Nigerians and I believe we'll start to see results.



Who are they? Not being funny--I sincerely can't think of any credible candidates.



My point is that I don't think Tinubu (and the other APC governors were 'given' anything. I think it took serious campaigning, strategizing, trading and some unsavory deals to get into higher elected offices. [b]I don't think 90% of people have the charisma, connections, stamina or competence to run for office and we shouldn't pretend that elections are always won by the virtuous or the brilliant. [/b]There are other important factors that contribute to leadership, which is why some people are career civil servants and policy wonks and others go out for the electioneering. It's not easy, bro. If it were, all of us talking on Nairaland could be in Abuja today.



I'm surprised at your idealism here. When Awolowo was in office, he regularly played second-fiddle to Adelabu in the Ibadan area and was not unanimously popular in places like Ilesha either. Did that mean that he or the Action Group had messed up? Social progress in a deeply-damaged place like Nigeria is going to be long and slow and anyone benefitting from the status quo is sure to resist it. That's the reason why convicted drug couriers and vapid jobbers are fighting hard and paying whatever is necessary to remain relevsnt. I don't think that means Tinubu is no good.



China isn't the best example of efficient spending--quite true. I was using them as an example of highly-developed, debt-funded infrastructure development though. Development that provided employment and enabled the spectacular growth of the private sector. It's far from perfect but I'm quite sure the average Nigerian would take living in Shanghai or Chengdu over Somolu or Yola.



I can't speak in those types of generalities. I've seen new roads in Osun, along with the youth employment scheme, free lunches and a free computer tablet for secondary education; significant new real estate and infrastructure development in Ogun; some impressive tourism development in Oyo and Ekiti and all the afore-mentioned advancements in Lagos. Let me stress that this is not good enough. At the same time, I won't pretend as if all the money evaporated into thin air or dissolved into political pockets. Let's find ways to insist on transparent budgeting, borrowing and spending but I can't sign on to wholesale doom and gloom when I can see (slight) progress with my own eyes.

Signing off for a while now--it's late over here but I wanted to make sure I replied.

First, I disagree with the notion that we should focus only on his time as governor. Tinubu stopped being governor in 2007 and has since expanded his role as the major decision maker in the SW. We have to look at the influence of his party on the SW

Second, whilst I agree that APC has completed some grand projects in Lagos, I still insist on widening the area of discourse to include other SW states minus Ondo. Having said that, it can't be disputed that some people have benefitted from the progress in Lagos and other parts. But I want someone to supply stats on how these 'developmental progress' has impacted the average Odua son. Brasil was a rich country with one of the worst income distribution in the world until the government of Lula, who came in with a lot of socialist policies. I will admit that my knowledge of what obtains on the ground is very limited being that I have been to Nigeria in a long time and only stayed there for a short while before that. But I do have an interest and I follow developments both online and offline.

Third, the main issue about debt is that states who CAN'T PAY salaries are loading debt significantly with very little to show for it. In essence, governors are taking debt that they know they will not be on the hook for when they leave office. Who will re-pay these debt? How will the debt be repaid considering the states are broke? These are pertinent questions. How can we talk about the positives of OYES when Aregbe can't pay salaries? Clearly it shows it was a well intentioned but ill-conceived plan.

Fourth, States have borrowed already and amassed great debt and are still struggling to pay salaries. But you suggest that the states borrow more to fund employment and development. I agree partially if the money is kept within the states and if the governors can show a reasonable debt reduction plan for the medium term. And also if the infrastructure provided or renewed is geared towards economic activity. But I am not convinced the current administrators have the nous to do this. I want more efficient and effective management first; reduction of nepotism, cronyism, corruption; reduction of the underground economy to increase revenue. Let us witness judicious spending of $10 before we allow anyone to borrow $100.

Fifth, I agree that elections aren't won by the virtuous but people shouldn't just sit idly by and continue to watch pigs dirty the entire political landscape. By demanding better accountability from all administrators starting from LG Chairmen to the president, parties will be forced to pick better candidates. Take the case of Lagos PDP who chose a very capable Agbaje over Obanikoro.

Sixth, with all due respect we shouldn't be comparing the person of Adegoke Adelabu with the likes of Kashamu, Boy George, Gbenga Daniel, Alao Akala. There is a gulf in difference. Adelabu provided effective opposition for the NCNC against AG. That was instrumental in keeping AG in line. I do ,however, want to address the point about Awo playing second-fiddle to Adelabu in Ibadan. I want to juxtapose that point with the humble beginnings of Awo and the age-long rivalries of the various Yoruba sub-groups pre-independence. It was always going to be a herculean task to unite the various yoruba subgroups. The task would have been easier for the Lagos Yoruba but they were busy forming intellectuals. It was Awo who saw the dangers that were present in pre-independence Nigeria and sought to do something. How was a man with such a humble beginning able to accomplish that? It was nothing short of miraculous that the Ibadan People Party with the exception of Adelabu chose to follow Awo, an Ijebu, rather than NCNC in the 1951 Regional elections. Giving the circumstance, I believe Awo over-achieved. Besides no politician has universal support.

Seventh, but not all cities in China are like Shanghai. Furthermore, China has many ghost cities that were built with debt. There are even cities in Nigeria that the average Nigerian would prefer over Shanghai. Time spent in Shanghai is what made me discover Nairaland.

Thanks for the contribution.

MayorofLagos:
Katz,
I am yet to get to the root of the misunderstanding that erupted into Kiriji war.

This is what I know about men's outlook on life and survival generally.

1. If you lay a feast of every decent and desirable dish on a table a mile long and invite men to it in reward for them to join a suicide mission squad, no man will show up.

2. If you open a vault filled with money and jewels as reward for suicide mission, men will show up, take a stock of it and ask you if they commit suicide how then will they enjoy all these treasure.

3. If you lay beautiful women on beds as rewards for men to join a suicide squad, men will trample over one another to be the first in line. Some will turn back once it dawns on them its not an everlasting reward.

4. If you promise virgins...72 of them as everlasting reward...and give suicide mission as the gateway to these virgins, plenty of men will show up ready to strap on and go to the mission. Some will ask for time to think about it and consult with their friends and brothers, half of them will return with their brothers and friends as volunteers....the other half will wonder why the heaven virgin is more valuable than the earthly virgin and never return.

I share this to bring you into reflection about man, poussy and survival. Take time to think about it and then share with me why Yorubas went to a total war and destoyed land and lives and towns and properties. Did someone steal Alaafin's cow? I doubt it. Somewhere in this intrigue there was a woman. I want to know this heroine and her story.

Not all wars are fought over poussy, as you called it. This was a war over power, nothing more nothing less. Latosa wanted to subjugate other groups mainly the Egbas and Ijebus and bit more than he could chew. Once he attacked the Egbas, the Ijebus aligned with Egba and the Ilorins and Ekiti saw the opportunity to take Ibadan. The Ibadan chiefs, who were initially reluctant to fight, had no option to fight or face destruction.

It's nothing new, similar to how Napoleon wanted to conquer Europe.

But perhaps others such as TerraCotta can shed more light on this 'poussy' angle if one exists.

MayorofLagos:


But current politicians will not adopt this because they wont be able to inflate contracts exorbitantly.

Katz, you will never corner me in your traps...I plan ahead before I interchange with you. .

Beside, I have a question for you on Kiriji.

Whats the question bro?

jstbeinhonest:




I guess you dont understand what the catalans plan to do,they'll simply keep protesting on the floor of the parliament,Little by little pressure would be mounted on the govt to prove that it is actually running a democracy,A referendum would eventually be passed,besides the Basque region also support catalonia (They also attempted to secced),About EU,they'll surely recognize catalonia,it might just take time.

I know Catalan very well and I also know Castilians very well. Catalonia is going no where. Making noise will not lead to others getting tired of your noise. Catalan has been making noise since the war of Spanish Succession in the 18th century. Spain is divided into 19 regions if you include 2 autonomous cities; so 2 regions - Basque & Catalonia - will never achieve independence. In any case, all regions have devolved powers with the 1978 constitution. All that is left is secession but Spain will never agree to that.

IlekeHD:
[size=18pt]Allocation of key ministerial portfolios to Yoruba extraction, a big challenge — Osoba[/size]

Aare, I'll personally like for us to discuss this. I know Gbawe counts this portfolios a bless, but ....... someone else claimed that it's a smart move on Buhari's part to make the South work [and take any potential blame].


@Shymmex, Katsumoto, modath, TerraCotta, StuntingBlack, oyb, etc


What is your take on this little exposure?

I do not believe there is an ulterior motive on Buhari's part.

He assigned the biggest ministeries/jobs to Fashola who is widely acknowledged as the best administrator in the country. It is for the likes of Fashola to seize the opportunity. If Fashola can deliver on Power and works throughout the nation, I don't see why he won't be the best option in 2019.

My prayer is that Fashola OVER-DELIVERS. And with the ish coming from Ambode, Fashola should have that motivation to deliver.

If Fashola delivers, both Fashola and Buhari get the plaudits and similarly if Fashola messes up both Fashola and Buhari will get the abuse.

oyb:


we are cool ; and sweating in night traffic jams

long time no see, and hope you will spend at least two weeks with us before going on another 3 month hiatus

jstbeinhonest:




I agree with the regional party thing,thats what catalonia did earlier this year,they voted a regional party into the parliament,with the sole purpose of pushing for seccession.Western Nigeria can do the same,and our purpose should be Regionalism.

Catalonia is going no where; you can vote a regional party into power but it will never have the votes at the center to get secession. Also the other rich regions in Spain don't have the appetite for breaking the country up. The EU has also warned Catalonia that it will not have membership.

So an Odua only party getting to the center can't outvote the other regions.

Aareonakakanfo:


Haha you mean this particular one or the one I posted yesterday?

Yeah I'll make sure I tag you

Abeg help us come up with something new.The Tinubu/APC discussions are usually too heated for my liking

I love peace

So you just want to discuss ideas in theory? How is it possible to improve the commonwealth without challenging the status quo?

Not saying this should be the only topic but avoiding or postponing it is unproductive. If you ignore it, how will their lieutenants here tell them what is going on?

StuntingBlack:
Watching Ogagun Katsumoto in 5D.

Long time ma man!!

How you doin' bruv? Hope you are well.

I love your post. It expatiates on what I was trying to articulate.

People shouldn't just sit on their arses and accept whatever these politicians dish. They need to become more active in governance. How many people organize action to challenge LG Chairman for asinine policies and actions? People need to also educate their family and friends on how to improve the situation. Letting politicians control grass root politics will never improve the situation. The youths are standing by and watching their futures mortgaged. There needs to be active participation by learned folks.

oyb:


I, and a lot of people I know who voted apc, are disappointed in ambode.

The guy inherited a working system and then he basically dismantled fasholas structures, then he went on some bizarre mission to sully fasholas reputation. Then he is taking pages from the Worst of PDP governors, (challenging bus drivers ala fayose), from gej (disjointed rejoinder to the economist scathing article ).

When the man goes to inspect anywhere, he comes off as just coming from a party or being on some sort of jamboree. The robbers have always been on the roads, but they are much more confident right now.

In the wake of the cash crunch, aregbesola seriously fell hand by holding onto the bailout funds and delaying payment of salaries. If I recall, he was demanding workers letters of employment or some such.

Chairman Oyb, how you dey?

Your post illustrates why I called Ambode a failure. He came in with no ideas except to Sully Fashola's name. Lagos has a working machinery; all he needed to do was continue what was on ground while thinking of new ways to generate revenue and improve the standard of living.

MayorofLagos:
Let me respond to Katz on Osun before I take a break.

Katz,
I still believe in the Yoruba of today as I do in those of past ages and their attitude to land. By custom Yorubas are cultivators of land. We are reputed as city and town builders. How did we build our cities and towns and infrastructures before the arrival of Julius Berger and Cappa d'Alberto?

We've seen pictures of palaces erected three storey high (in fact credit to Terracotta for being one of the first people to bring those into open here) with materials sourced locally from the land. Yorubas in uplands dammed rivers and built water channels. In Kabba, Yorubas used rocksalt to create minute statutes and art crafts numberimg thousands...the likes of which has not been recorded in any history of mankind. The walls of Eredo, the greatest monument in human antiquity, how did we do it? The great walls of Old Oyo and the forts, did Julius Berger build it?

These structures were put up with the communal effort.of the citizens. When citizens have a sense of.ownership in the cause they will sacrifice and volunteer for the collective benefit. Those structures were built in what today would be the responsibility of Public Works Department.

Do we have any PWDs left? We may not be able to achieve the same focus and passion using PWD in LAGOS but in OSUN where largely 90% citizens are invested in the land, I see no reason why a PWD in OSUN could not employ youths and put them to workto renew.and develop townships.

Our governments are taking loans to contract Julius Berger and all these foreign companies to come and build cities and towns for us. Where did our abilities dissapear to, who robbed us our skills to cultivate the land and bring beauty and majesty out of emptiness?

I will keep this short.

Im a strong advocate for redistribution of income. I understand the need to shore up our international ratings and credibility through global financial participation...big man's word for debt! Lol. What I dont understand is we starve our own citizens in order that our cities and towns can stand global acceptance....and we do so by blocking redistribution of income locally.

Osun should review all infrastructure contracts and do two things

1. Create a Marshall plan for employment, youth engagement and development

2. Redirect contracts awarded to foreigners and allocate it locally to boost wage earning, taxes, and discretionary spending so the money can funnel down and go round and bring people into recovery.

Mayor

This is a great idea; why did you think it would be unpopular. This idea shouldn't apply to Osun alone; all SW states can adopt this idea. One of the reasons why communities stay poor is because governments don't spend the proceeds of loans on indigenes preferring to award contracts to external 3rd parties who will come and execute projects and then leave with funds. But current politicians will not adopt this because they wont be able to inflate contracts exorbitantly.

TerraCotta:


Kats--I have to head out but I will respond to you later.

TerraCotta

This debate is not that serious bros; you are heading out to consult with Paul Krugman just for a NL debate!!!

laudate:


Wey my contact lens?? Na Oga Katsumoto I dey see so?? Without collecting change?? Ah egbon, I dey hail o!

I hail you back but ta ni egbon yin? Everyone is claiming to be young on these boards and using reverse psychology in calling others egbon.

Desola:


Is who not Desola?

Dessy baby - how you doing?

TerraCotta:


Hi Kats. I've been following this discussion for a little while and catching up with it as it evolved. Gbawe's contribution and your responses have elevated the conversation considerably (no disrespect to people who kept the thread going!) and your debate prompts me to comment.

I've had this same conversation about the political merits of Bola Tinubu with my own relatives and friends, some of whom live in Nigeria (I don't) and I disagree with them as I disagree with you. Gbawe and Ramdeuter rightfully point out what the realistic alternatives to Tinubu's political influence are--I don't think the likes of Fayose and Alao-Akala can be dismissed as 'scare-mongering' when they are active politicians who are or were in office. They are the realistic opposition to Tinubu, not the gifted but faceless millions of potential Awolowos who are in no way ready to run for election. The U.S. and U.K. may be overrun with potential Theodore Roosevelts and Benjamin Disraelis as well but that won't neutralize the fact that the next leaders will be well-established Democrats/Republicans or Conservative/Labour members, respectively.

On your pertinent question about indices of human development. The GDP of Lagos at $80 billion in 2010 figures exceeded that of 14 states in the U.S. And Kenya. I'm sure you're familiar with the flaws of using GDP (and even GDP per capita) as a proxy for societal progress so I don't think a straight statistical comparison tells the whole story. By comparison, low population/higher income nations like Equitorial Guinea should be paradise since it can boast of a GDP per capita of about $20,000 before the oil price decline.

So which indices would be more appropriate? How about growth in tax receipts? Tax is the lifeblood of government in any civilized society and in Lagos, and in Lagos, the number of compliant taxpayers went from 2.4 million in 2011 to 4.5 million last year. I can't find the 1999 figures yet but I would be surprised if the state had up to 1 million tax payers at that time. That is significant progress that contributes to the ongoing (but unfinished) infrastructural development I see when I go back every year. No one wants to pay taxes, but direct funding of government projects gives people a sense of ownership in the process and 'skin in the game.'



I don't know if I can be qualified to be called an APC loyalist but a fair look at the indices suggest that Lagos, the state that Tinubu ruled, has experienced substantial progress in the 16 years since he took charge as governor and political figurehead in subsequent administrations.

Interestingly, some of the lauded social critics we've mentioned have nothing but respect for Tinubu themselves. Here are two examples: Wole Soyinka is never shy about praising Tinubu for his role as one of the leading finders of NADECO during the Abacha years, and most people forget that he was also in exile for opposing the military as a senator in the early 1990s as well. Soyinka, unlike many of us, has repeatedly tried to contribute to political development in Nigeria so he has a clear sense of what is needed and what it takes to success. His latest foray, the DFPF political party, would certainly qualified to be called a failed project compared to APC.

More recently, Fashola has resisted his respect and commitment to Tinubu as a leader despite the rumored (and in my opinion, true) rift between them over the Ambode election and other issues. In the PM News profile, Fashola talked about Tinubu's encouragement of him and Wale Tinubu when they were young lawyers, along with Tinubu's approach to employee welfare and how it influenced him in later years.

I could go on but I think my point is clear enough. Whatever Bola Tinubu's flaws are, it's hard to dismiss him as ineffectual or equal to any of his rivals. He assembled and groomed the team that will lead infrastructure development, solid mineral exploitation, federal taxation and, indirectly, finance for the country over the next four years. Those are respectable achievements that can't be ascribed to a 'local champion'. If there are no improvements in these fields by the end of the team's tenure, then they (and Tinubu) can rightfully be called failures. Right now, they appear to be winning.

On the issue of relatively high debt burdens in western Nigeria (I've never been a fan of reducing Yorubaland to "the southwest" ), I agree that governors should be made to justify the debts but I don't think the concept of borrowing for development should be demonized outright. China's debt to GDP ratio now stands at about 160%, yet in terms of infrastructure, they're the envy of many nations. You can quote similar (but less extreme) figures for most developed economies. Debt issuance is a crucial part of industrialization and infrastructure development and in times of private-sector inactivity, it's actually necessary for government to increase spending on public works to generate demand so economic activity can pick up. I absolutely see Aregbesola's logic in developing an airport in Osogbo, for instance, but I guess I'm in the minority on that issue. You don't wait until the tourism or agricultural demand is overwhelming before developing the necessary infrastructure to support it. The infrastructure itself is often the spur for economic activity. I know that Katsumoto has discussed Keynesian theory here on Nairaland before so that last part wasn't really meant for you--it was just a general comment to the earlier comments about debt.

I'm not able to check into NL very often these days but I do look forward to your response.

Welcome to the debate

First, Lagos is one of 6 states in the SW. I wouldn't want to restrict the discussion to just Lagos. Afterall, most of the SW states have debts. In any case, tax receipts may be high but is it being translated in an improvement in the standard of living of average Lagosians? Or revenue is going up and a few are getting paid?

Second, I don't think anyone has demonized debt. Surely debt is required for development but the issue I have with debt in Naija are as follows:
1. Lack of Accountability
2. Mis-managment
3. Corruption

What is the point of starting projects if they won't have any impacts? And I doubt that SW politicians are implementing any Keynesian economics to boost their state economies. Were they practising Keynesian economics when Nigeria was making additional revenue from the sale of Crude oil? The simple fact is that Jonathan and everyone in power in the last 6 years mis-managed funds which accrued from high oil receipts. Now that Oil prices have crashed and with most states bankrupt, what is the way out of the quagmire? What will Osun sell to pay its debt?

Third, the alternatives to Tinubu & his boys are obvious. To whom much is given, much is expected. If Tinubu's party is making progress, there would be no need to make references to Bode George, Alao Akala, Kashamu, etc. When your party does well, the opposition isn't relevant until you mess up. I am not interested in what the APC will do for Nigeria in the next 4 years; my interest is in what Tinubu's boys have done in the SW over the last 4 years.

Fourth, China's debt to GDP ratio is high but China really isn't the best example of efficient spending since most of its infrastructure is unused. And lets not forget that China holds a large percentage of US Debt. China's holding of US Debt ($1.5T) is approximately 25% of it's own national debt. So China has some fall back. In addition, China leads in industrialization and manufacturing. Nigerian states are borrowing large sums of money, but what are they spending these loans on?

Lets call a spade a spade - states collected free money from the center and borrowed both internally and externally yet are struggling to pay salaries; no improvement in health, infrastructure, education, defence. Where is the money?