raumdeuter:


Another excellent point. Tinubu could have insisted on being VP, Instead of Osinbajo. Tinubus baggage would have been easier for the PDP to battle than people like Fashola and Osinbajo that he puts forward




Lagos would always continue to struggle regardless of who is governor as long as other governors in the country are not carryng their weight

75% of graduates in Ngeria after NYSC head to Lagos, 50 % of secondary school leavers head to Lagos. Lagos has the smallest land mass So how would New York look if all the other states are terrible and 50,000 people per day buy one way tickets into Lagos

In 1991 Lagos was 5m, in 2015 15yrs later its about 20m. Let any economist tell me how its not a miracle that Lagos hasnt sank into the Atlantis

Tinubu did put himself forward as VP but was talked out of it.

Your comments about Lagos carrying other states is on point.

Pataki:
Katsuuuuuu welcome back! Hope you will not run away again when we steal your Sterling.

Thanks bro

Hahahahaha - You can have Sterling for £50M.

SirShymexx:
@Terracotta

Great to see you back on these sides, Sir.

Personally, I won't even mind conceding that he is a better politician than Awo - despite the nuances in the two eras, and the fact that this victory had more to do with being at the right place, at the right time - than his political savviness. Left to me - the election was won time ago, and he did what he ought to do, since PDP is/was his nemesis in the SW. I honestly don't see any genius in that.

However, before we start crowning him - can we talk about his legacy and achievements? Also, what is his ideology and has he got any structure that will stand the test of time like Awo's?

Furthermore, when it comes to great leaders I judge them based on ideology and I will like all the elders on this thread to educate me on Tinubu's ideology.

Fiscally, Tinubu is a Capitalist; socially, he has no ideology or it isn't visible.

raumdeuter:


The job is dead in water if you dont get to office.

Fashola had ideas on how to govern and administer Lagos. He would never have made it there without Tinubu

Buahri probably has ideas on how to make this country better but he would never make it without Tinubu.



No one including myself has called Tinubu a better administrator than anyone, I said he is the best politician the Yoruba race has seen, administrative ability, Honesty integrity, he might not make top 20m As long as democracy is still 1 man 1 vote.

Tinubu has done his own job getting the administrators who claim they can change the country into power. Now let the administrators fulfil their own side of the bargain

If your position is about Tinubu being the best Yoruba politician, then I may not disagree with you. As long as thats where you leave it.

TerraCotta

How you doing bro?

So we shouldn't look at the impact of Tinubu's policies on the people before we know where to place? Are you suggesting that regardless of what happens, by being a part of the coalition then we already no where he should be placed?

Also, we should ignore the impact of Buhari and the failures of GEJ Buhari won this election because the SW joined forces with the North. But Tinubu himself hasn't won the election or do we assume that Buhari is just a figurehead?

The revenue model in Lagos has made Lagos richer and those connected with those policies. And certainly the same would hold for Nigeria if those policies are replicated on a national level. I would be interested in seeing some data on the GDP per capita for Lagos between 1999 and now.

yokiti:

The great Kats is back! A warm welcome to one of my most respected nairaland forum member. Hope to read from you again uninterruptedly. Jah bless you sir.

Thank you sir. God bless you too.

raumdeuter:


How would you get this increase in standard of living without getting into office to start with?

Was Gani able to implement his ideas for the whole of Nigeria or was Awolowo able to implement this?

Don't confuse the issues. The job doesn't end with getting into office. Afterall GEJ was in office and he did fcukall other than loot.

Tinubu has been in administration since 1999, what is his legacy? What is his ideology? Yes he is a master tactician, we give him that. Other than APC stopping the rot and bleeding of the SW after the PDP years, one can't state that APC is doing much in the SW. People are surviving; nothing more than that. Are they getting wealthier? Are they living better? Are they better educated? Are they safer? I don't think so. There is so much room for improvement but the improvement is so little. Fashola himself is a better administrator than Tinubu. So it would appear that in Tinubu's era itself, he isn't even the best administrator. But is he currently the best politician in the land, absolutely.

OAM4J:
Katsumoto?? From which hole did you come out from?

How you doing bro?

raumdeuter:


Akintola ensured the our sons Yorubas were put in position of authority under his regime

WHile Awolowo was playing his own type of Politics, Ibos were VC in the 2 universities in the SW, Ibos were leading all parastatals

You are not after the appointment of Yorubas into power, A lot of Yorubas are after that. That was one of the major campaign points against Jonathan in the last few months

How would FG send 100 Nigerians on scholarship and just a handful of Yorubas because we want to be in the opposition?

Therein lies the reason for our disagreement. I will take a healthy increase in the standard of living of the people over the appointment of some Yoruba sons to political office. Nepotism and cronyism only benefit a few; it is never the majority.

The way the Brits constituted Nigeria, the Yoruba were bound to lose in one way or the other.

raumdeuter:


The Hausas were the people with numbers, Akintola reached out to them which Awolowo swore never to do and why Awo never won a Federal election

So Akintola reached out to the Northerners and what did Akintola gain for the SW in return? I am not after the appointment of Yoruba sons to positions of power. What was gained in all that? Juxtapose whatever gains he made with the loss of life and property in the SW that followed.

You guys can talk all about the first republic with all the political sagacity of Cicero but one fact escapes you - that was a different era. The various groups had not lived together for Long and there was huge mistrust all around. What did they know of each other? A man who just moved into a new street with new neighbours cant be compared with a man who was born on that street in terms of building relationships.

raumdeuter:


Politics is a game of numbers. No matter how laudable your ideas are, If you dont have the numbers you are screwed.

Awo was a hardliner. Tinubu took from both Awolowo(maintain fanatical control of your base) and Akintola(Reach out to people with the numbers) (More from Akintola) to win this election. You need to ally with the man with the numbers to win election. Akintolas speech in 1964 that I post on youtube says whats the use when we keep speaking English in the SW, the supposed uneducated Hausa keep ruling us, their Ibo partners are now exported into our land to take over opportunities in our land

Now back to your post. APGA never had the control over the SE which Tinubu had over the SW. The SE was alwas didvided between PDP and APGA so, The SE had just 5 states, The APGA dont have a known charismatic leader. Peter Obi is more of a joke. If Buhari had aligned with APGA and Tinubu with Jonathan, Jonathan would have trounced Buhari easily

The Mimiko gambit backfired just once. and I cant blame Tinubu. He supported Mimiko in Ondo gave him all the little structure and finances of the AC with the agreement that Mimiko would decamp. Mimiko won the tribunal and Tinubu thought that was a deal. 3yrs into it when Mimiko was supposed to decamp Tinubu saw that he had no intentions of doing so by then it was just a few months to the next election, too late to build up the ACN structure which he had dismantled earlier and handed to Mimiko, creation of Adaba FM was too late and before he knew it election was over and ACN lost.

I dont see how that was Tinubus fault. in 2007, Tinubu was still fighting for his own life with OBJ and had no time for anyone then, It was post 2007 that he was able to strategize

Tinubu became the leader he is by getting intelligent people to do the administration while he handled the politics

At bolded, are you attempting to re-write history? How did Akintola reach out to the people? Perhaps you meant Akintola reached out to Balewa and Bello.

@ Coogar & DK

Our objectives are different

You guys may be satisfied with APC producing a Yoruba VP or President but that is not what I am after.

I am after the upliftment of the people. The North has produced more presidents that other zones; has that translated into an upliftment of the average northerner either socially or economically?

I repeat winning elections is not the be all and end all. For all the years that APC has ruled Lagos, Tinubu and his friends have gotten richer but what about the average Lagosian? I am all for Capitalism but there must be still be some form of wealth distribution.

And DK, your feelings about Awo are well known, so it is no surprise that you would champion someone above Awo. We pray for leaders that will come and surpass Awo's legacy but sadly, after 60 years none still come close.

You guys can continue to be satisfied with winning elections but I am not.

coogar:


nah, GEJ didn't just lose the election. APC made him lose the election & that credits go to tinubu and his astute posse.

awolowo is overrated - he couldn't even keep oyo state from NPN in the 83 elections. yet, we have tinubu who have directly or indirectly ruled lagos for the past 16 years and plotted the downfall of the most powerful political party in the history of nigeria - and you guys want to deny him his credits?

i give up.

So the incumbent losing an election in Nigeria had nothing to do with the disenfranchisement of the people? GEJ was incompetent, weak, and corrupt. That's why he lost the election. Did Tinubu and Buhari not lose to GEJ 4 years ago? Did Buhari not lose 3 previous elections? In 1983, NPN rigged Oyo and Ondo. Perhaps you should read up on the violence that followed in those states.

Winning elections aside, what is Tinubu's legacy? No doubt, Tinubu is good at politics but governing is a different matter entirely. We don't have elections so we can decide who is best at winning them, we do so we can select the best person for governing.

SirShymexx:


Blimey!

The great Kats is back! I'm good, Sir. I'm still a student under your tutelage. If not for you, Uncle eGuerilla, Pukkah, TerraCotta, Chief Negro_ntns (before he metamorphosed into MayorofLagos, and became a pain in the ar.se of Igbos lol), and bits I got from my pops - I wouldn't be as conversant as I'm about Nigerian politics. I'm still learning, and I'm always trying to do the grandmaster teachers proud.

Thank God you're back. I actually have a personal observation about the whole election. However, initially, I wasn't going to post it because most of the folks on here these days don't really have the prerequisite cognitive-reasoning/knowledge to decipher the simplest things. But I know you'll understand the picture I'm trying to paint, and perhaps correct some errors in there.

Personally, I think the Tinubu man is an astute politician based on this era, but his genius is somewhat overrated. ACN was a regional party created straight from Awo's blueprint, and the fact that the party never won in Ondo, also took a bit away from his "genius".

Now, back to this election: Buhari was going to win, with or without Tinubu. He just needed a structure in one or two of the regions in the South - to make it look more pan-Nigeria. He also tried to get APGA in the mix, but he was rejected. The man had the anointing of the West from as far back as late 2013, and it was obvious they wanted a regime change in Nigeria. However, they wanted it to be a smooth-sailing, with ballot papers - and no bloodshed. Hence they sent emissaries to GEJ on multiple occassions: before, during, and after the election - and also the reason why he conceded defeat so easily. Additionally, when you look at the fact that David Axelrod was also in-charge of APC's electioneering - that's a pointer to what was happening behind the scene. Anyone conversant with US/International politics knows David Axelrod is part of Obama's inner caucus...and from the Chicago group, with Rahm Emanuel et al. He isn't just anyone you can employ to facilitate your political party - without US/international interests.

Furthermore, GEJ and his handlers (who are mostly from the South East) self-destruct by turning PDP into a regional party - with the hope that dishing money out in the 99th hour, would be enough to buy the required votes. All in all, the only thing the Tinubu man did was provide a structure for Buhari in the SW. And even with that, APC didn't win convincingly in the region. Coupled with the fact that the expose/documentary about him almost derailed the momentum of APC.

So, I honestly don't see the "genius" in what happened, to even warrant a comparison, with the great Awolowo. He hasn't even done anything whatsoever for the Yorubas. Regardless, I'd like to see what he negotiated for the Yorubas - and if he'll be able to surpass what Akintola got, before the 1966 coup.

You nailed it.

All in all, it was more that GEJ lost the election than that Tinubu/Buhari won.

coogar:


where have you been, man?

Hey bro, just got very busy. How are you?

Gbawe:


Probably too much 'harrassment'. They were 'jailing' many of us vocal and passionate GMB supporters mercilessly recently. My other only moniker has been banned till next year effectively rendering it 'retired'. I just got off a ban with my main Gbawe user ID.

I wonder if we wll see all the Nairalanders who were ultra-passionate about the removal of GEJ but left Nairaland for good. They probably never believed this day would come.

The likes of Kilode, Koruji, Dayo Kanu, Pukkah, Eguerilla, Katsumoto and many, many others. Guys, I salute una even if you are gone for good. You played your part.

Chief Gbawe

How are you? Congratulations to you too on this victory. Hopefully, the General can set Nigeria on the proper path.

SirShymexx:
One more thing: before you anoint Tinubu's political astuteness, we have to wait to see what he negotiated with the North and what he'll get.

Right now, he is yet to match Akintola's greatness.

SirShymexx

How are you? I hope you are keeping well. Keep being your truthful self.

yomexp:
katz welcome back man!

Thanks bro

nduchucks:
na wa o, Isale, naijababe, Desola, Kilode!, Katsumoto, all on the same thread in 2015
What a sight! I greet all of una from the bottom of my heart o.

Alhaji

I hope you are well. No doubt you are happy the General won; now Nigeria may experience proper leadership.

isalegan2:
You've got some nerve, buddy.

Look at him with his shiny teeth.

Did I do something?

isalegan2:
O ye o ye, my people! All is well. Katsumoto has been located. He resurfaced in Politics section.
Good thing. And not a moment too soon, 'cos I was about to send out a search party for him. You know. . . a 'posse' of his greatest admirers and compadres, including the knights of my round table.

I hope everyone is doing well and in good health.

Desola:


Ashewo ni e jo!

Dessy baby, how are you too?

I missed you too.

isalegan2:

Your pal, Naijababe.
And Desola. . .
BTW, glad to know you're alive n' kicking, Katsumoto!

Hey you, thanks
Glad you are well too. Its been a minute.

naijababe:


Look what the cat dragged out! I miss you man! Where u been?

Miss you too; gotten real busy in the last couple of years. How you dey? Glad you guys voted to remain a part of the UK.

But seriously, you can applaud the genius of Tinubu but do not place him anywhere near Awo.

I need not go into details.

Who are those comparing Tinubu to Awo? Stop it.

So winning national elections is now a yardstick

coogar:

he's playing rooney because rooney is a captain. he said it himself that the reason rooney is featuring isn't because he's better than the benched players, rooney plays solely because he's s captain. so regardless of rooney's appalling performance, he must play rooney.

if rooney isn't an out & out playmaker, what then is rooney's role? when RVP was bought, rooney was moaning like a bítch he wants to play as a striker. when falcao arrived, rooney went to LVG to say he wants to play in the hole. which is which for rooney? as a centre forward, he's never won a golden boot in his 11-year career playing for a successful club like united. he's never topped the assist chart in any season as well. so what exactly is rooney good at?

But LVG made Rooney captain and he thought long and hard about it before making that decision. Surely a man who is known for being strict and direct couldnt have been pressured into making Rooney captain. He must have made Rooney captain because he wants to build his attack around him.

And surely LVG will have no issues dropping Rooney if he sees the need for it.

coogar:

you are a dolt!
there's a reason most pundits want rooney out of the team. when mata played in the hole against QPR, we won 4-0 convincingly with the new players. when rooney played in the hole against leicester, we lost woefully, 3-5 with the new players.

there's no hiding place any longer. before now, the scapegoats were nani, young, cleverley, anderson & fellaini. rooney has been fully exposed, his mediocrity has been laid barë. even the media that used to protect english players are now speaking out that rooney is the black sheep in the team.




mata has killed rooney in every statistic measured. football is fluid - a player's position should not affect passing accuracy, forward passes, key passes, created chances, etc. what's rooney's excuse for this woeful performance?

since you are a rooney-lover, kindly check if he's not suffering from hernia.

Are you blaming an attack that scored 3 goals away from home for losing? You mean the number 10 is responsible for creating goals and preventing the opposition from scoring?

sephia: Louis van Moyes. United is the new Liverpool.

Well only a Team like united with that number of titles can be the new Liverpool; teams with titles less than Sunderland can't be the new Liverpool. May be in the year of our Lord 2060, other teams may be in the position of being the new Liverpool.

Hahahahahahaha

who were those united supporters laughing yesterday.

coogar:

that is expected - welbeck gets 90 mins in every league game but there's no way RVP, falcao and rooney can cop 90 mins in every game. one of them must sit on the bench.

where's ruudie??

Oh come on, surely you are not making excuses already.

Welbeck will also share duties with Giroud, Sanogo, & Podolski.

I expect RVP & Falcao to score more goals than Welbeck.

montelik: is going to become a weekly feature. every week Welbeck doesn't score, some will gloat and bash him. when he does score, others will also come to gloat.

What will make the commentary really interesting would be if Welbeck scores more goals than RVP & Falcao at the end of the season.

coogar:

it's CR7 that's begging to come back to man utd after seeing how madrid treated di maria. madrid are rogues - ronaldo has already forseen what might become of him when he stops performing.

CR7 wants a huge pension; he reckons if an average player like Rooney can earn £300k, utd would probably pay him £750k.

CR7 has won all he can win; now to build a huge pension pot.

coogar:

how do players get national invitations? no be their performance for club? we are not comparing germany vs england as a whole here. we are doing individual comparison.

if you were a manager in april 2010(just before the world cup) & you were asked to choose the best 11 players in the squad england & germany had......who would make your top 11. would you choose khedira over gerrard or klose over rooney?

that's the point here.......

I would pick Klose over Rooney any day.

Gerrard over Khedira (in 2010 that is) - but not Gerrard over Schweinsteiger. If I picked a team, it would have been overwhelmingly German; and I have never supported Germany.

Why is that in England, players get picked as soon as they move to Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea?

chic2pimp:

Nah so we see am so

Nevermind redefined Maka invented the DM role in footy sef. The likes of Rijkaard and Lothar(in his latter years) have him to thank