₦airaland Forum

@mr anony

From the recent examples brought out, like ideas which are physcially restricted to space and time are well understood despite being supernatural. And given that same example ideas lack physicality. Hence natural can't be a subset of the supernatural.

Miracles touch on natural and logical impossibilities brought to life. A dead man resurrecting.

ignis: Holy war is a peaceful war against the enemies of Islam.

LMAO!! Peaceful war?! Or you meant defensive war??

In my view, your link is wrong.

At least both wiegraf and I have links that its an expansion. One of your links compromises you. A key big ban.g theorist says its an expansion. What else do you want.

Reyginus: Hawkings didn't propose the big bang theory. You should be reading Hubble or Lemaitre( Don't know If I spelt it correctly) not Hawkings.

Hawkings is one of the biggest big ban.g proponets.

Emusan: Exertly, i know you will surprise about that because it beyond any human imagination, simply means God work in miraculous way. Read my post again it's a testimony of a surgeon who doesn't believe in God existence but since that day he know God really exist because nothing like medical assistance.

You said i should read about sun on google, who did the findings you or another man like you?

As a man like you did some findings about how things came into an existence and you believe the person, have you ever try it personally to some extend that God exist? Rather believing in what people says not what you discover because personally i have find out that my God is real and exist not just base my believe/everything on Bible alone.

My Brother try to do the same thing. Thanks

Are you serious?! A pregnancy without a womb is MaGIC, its impossible!! You christians are presenting yourselves as illiterates.

muredo: The Bible called them FOOL, and an adage says THE BEST ANSWER FOR FOOL IS SILENCE

That's why the bible is an old book filled with too much nonsense if taken too literally. Standing suns, and parting of seas are not possible!!

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I won't put it that way myself but if you insist.....


I see no reason why this should be true. Why I say this is because it can be demonstrated that everything we know to be the natural world (all matter, space and time) began to exist at some point. Unless you want to hold that it was caused by nothing, you must have to accept that it's cause is something that transcends space, time and matter but is powerful enough to create it.[/quote]A classical logic lesson is you can't give what you don't have. Except the natural is part of the supernatural, it can't invariably produce a natural world. A transcendental world is theorized to exist for the sake of the natural world, if we can't find a common substance between the two, it becomes unreasonable for a transcendental world to continue to exist.

What about our purported experiences of the supernatural? Like miracles.

Also, there is no reason to limit the Nature to physical boundaries. One can say without contradiction that human consciousness is very much natural.

I read a lecture from Stephen Hawking, and he stressed that the big ban.g was an expansion several times.

Emusan: Do you want to tell me that scientist predictions are accurate or 100%

No christian we ever force anybody to accept Jesus Christ but is for your own good because life after death is much more important than the one you're living now.

Pls can you answer this questions if you have the idea:
* How come that a woman that doesn't have womb conceived and gave birth, i know this beyond any scientist knowledge. ( this is a testimony of a surgeon like you who didn't believe that there is God, but now he has believe).
* If scientist can describe how planet formed, then how did SUN came into and existence?
* How Doctor's are unable to heal some sicknesses but by prayers the sickness will go.

My advise for you just go into your closet and ask this just simple question, that if truly you exist God, reveal yourself to me. I know you we have testimony to share

why do people think like this?! How is it possible for a woman or man without a womb be pregnant and safely deliver the child without any extraordinary medical assistance?! Its like to believe a Christian God, one must believe in logical monstrosities!

In that case, its easy to say it isn't logical to believe God.

The fact that you are ignorant about the origin of the Sun doesn't mean a mysterious being did it. It is depressing seeing this kind of condescending garbage.

Prayers have the theological problem of perfecting the already perfect being. If God was perfect, he would make the correct and most accurate decisions.

I support wiegraf's stand. Cos the article's author is making a big mistake with his language.

Pls do. Yes

@mr anony

Given your definition of supernatural, all consciousness and thoughts/ideas fit. Cos they aren't confined to space, etc.

And we can't conclude that a supernatural source is responsible for a natural world, cos the supernatural lacks a natural substance.

Reyginus: Do you also hold the claim of an explosion will render your stand null?

I don't think the theory accommodates any explosion.

@mr anony

Consciousness is supernatural?

Reyginus: Lolol. I think wiegraf is affecting how you fashion your points.
The question is not if the singularity follows physical laws. It is, if the cause of the singularity's effect follows physical laws, when we claim the singularity is the only existing entity?

The cause of singularity is unknown, much of the nature of the singularity is unknown. That's an open question.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Oh I see, I define a natural entity as anything that can be comprehensively defined within the bounds of space, time and materiality.

I won't define based on causal relationships because I hold that there exists causal connections between the supernatural and the natural.

For me the natural and the supernatural correspond directly to the physical and the spiritual.[/quote]But ideas and thoughts are not held to be supernatural.

If you wish to believe ideas are supernatural, you'd agree with atheists who believe God is an ideology.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Lol, here we go again with more wordplay.....I have given you an explanation of what it means when it is said that God is supernatural. Does the explanation I gave satisfy you? If yes we move on. If no, why not?[/quote]What do you sEe the natural as? Because if there is a causal connection btw them, God would still count as natural.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Supernatural is not something that contradicts nature rather it is something that transcends nature i.e. You cannot explain the supernatural using Natural laws.

When I say God is supernatural, what I mean is that He is not subject to natural laws rather He transcends them. God is Spirit.

The nature of God is such that you cannot define God in terms of space, time and matter. That is what is meant by God is Supernatural.

Does this clarify things for you?[/quote]Expressed as a contravention of Nature

@reyginus

1. Wiegraf had many links on that. Hypotheses are the formative stage of a theory. They are immediately supported with evidence. Whike thoeries require falsification to break down.

2. I asked you that question, bro.

3. Good question. Yes, for example water boiling at a certain temperature in the consequence of physcial law. Same with gravity. The behaviour and mutual interations btw matter, energy and entites is what constitutes physical law. So the singularity is acting in accordance to its character which we don't know much about.

daryoor: There has been too much attention giving to atheist. thats not what annoys me what annoys me is the way nairalanders group agsnosticism as being a branch or thesame as atheism.
to put clearly, an atheist believes there is no God while An agnostic does not deny the existence of God
and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether
or not they exist. a person who claims, with respect to any particular question,
that the answer cannot be known with certainty.

I find this particular agnostic's position funny. He claims he doesn't believe and accept the God proposition, yet he goes against his own beliefs to claim that the God he doesn't believe in, has this particular attribute of being UNPROVEaBle.

In my humble view, its ridiculous.

Most of these anti-atheists aren't science aware, at least anti science and anti knowledge.

However, to enter the Kingdom of God doesn't need evidence, rather faith. So this topic is useless.

ooman: I have gotten all the answers i need. This is why i am an atheist. I am totally satisfied now. It was pathetic to believe in God. Atheism is the best thing that happened to me. You want to know? Become an atheist and experience the best of life.

I felt better too

nosa gold: Atheists seem to be dominating this site and blaspheming against the almighty God. I'll just move straight to the point, atheists should provide evidence that God doesn't exist and I, Or any christian will prove them wrong.

Since God can't do the impossible like creating everything from nothing. He isn't needed.

Reyginus: @wiegraf.
1. What I'm saying is simple. You post what you feel are claims from Google. But when asked to be a man and defend them, you say you are not a professional. You must be ready to stand by whatever you are quoting, from wherever.
Now you're talking about a theory and a hypothesis. The sciences can be so contradicting to themselves. Almost everything about the big bang theory is false. The problem is, you think whatever the scientist call a theory is. A theory cannot be with filled half-truths and begging evidence. The big bang is too wack to be seen in the light of a theory.
My aim here is to make you think. Good I'm achieving that.
And dude, stop getting emotional.
2. The question of what caused the explosion is the contradiction of the theory. I wonder how a singularity can be made to explode. Into what space? That's an intelligent question to nail you. Into what space? Can a thing be only existing and be caused to explode? If you still hold that it didn't explode(which is not according to the theory), the question still is, into what space? Did it create spaces by itself? All I've done in this arguement is to show how unfounded the claims of the big bang theory are. Now asking me the evidence shows you've little or no understanding of it. The question should thrown to you. Since the big bang theory talked of an explosion, where is the evidence? You don't ask me to provide evidence that your guesswork is true. Lol. Another scientific blunder contradicting your initial claim. How can the early stages of the universe be what we call the big b.ang? And also the present expansion? You even need to understand yourselve.
3. Lol. Dude, you don't have to say that exactly. You talked about gravity influencing the beginning. Can a singularity, the only thing that existed in the beginning, be under the influence of anything? How can anything even govern the only thing that existed?
I don't think the laws in the beginning are physical, but metaphysical laws. Physical laws cannot tell with certainty how a single entity can begin to expand on its own.
4. How can this universe mean this universe. What a senseless answer. Just like saying that the meaning of my name is my name. I thought you had some multiverse theories. Like there is another universe I know not about.
5. Still pointing to how dumb scientists can be. Even what is called vacuum is filled by microparticles. How dumb? The rest are not necessary.
6. Lol@my conclusion. Let's not deviate.
7. This doesn't make any sense. You used the beginning of This Universe too loosely that I thought you are talking about a multiverse.
Anyway, thumbs up so far.

1. I don't see any contradiction between theories and hypotheses.

2. That depends on what you think space-time continuum is made of/composed of. And how it behaves.

3. You haven't explained why you'd ASSUME laws existing in the beginning of this Universe are supernatural, (metaphysical covers both physical and phenomenonal substances). And the scientists are involved yet in the origin of the singularity from which the Universe sprung from.

Reyginus: Bringing 'em fighter jets.
1. Oh I forget, google was your thinking cap.
2. Expansion? Lol. Their was an explosion before the expansion. Cause and effect my friend. You are trying to twist the claim of the theory. Why this universe?
3. This is even more laughable. Can a thing be only existing in union with gravity? What does it mean to exist alone?
4. It's high time you explained the phrase 'this universe'.
5. Ah! Even scientists fall for this. Vacuum flunctuation. The problem with vacuum flunctuation is that it neglects the fact that it can only occur in an empty space. If it can't happen everywhere it shows that it only becomes effective in a vacuum. That said, the casaul agent exists only in a vaccuum. Some scientists are too dumb, to think so.
6. I hate to read when I'm supposed to think.
7. What about a multiverse now?

2. Did you mean that an explosion is necessary for expansion or that the theory actually espouses an explosions.

Reyginus: first link filled with images, second link filled with thanks, 3rd link was it. All affect consciousness.
That's why I asked if it is possible to consciously see an illusion?

Yes and consider how much intoxication alters consciousness.

^^ I drew that from human "experience" of the supernatural. By what we understand by supernatural, that is contradiction of Nature. For example apple trees producing blood.

Any man that chases a woman for more than 2 years is a stalker and emotional unstable and probably mentally unstable

powerblaze: Most ladies simply dont know when to just stop running.. In the game of love, there are stages. I cant be stuck in stage1 (chasing), just cos she thinks she's too good for me. Do I look like usain bolt? . I'll rather meet up a girl that'll walk with me..

Ultimately, it boils down to how u control the game.. Ladies of this generation hardly deserve dat treatment. Our mothers were chased by our fathers cos they remained virgins till they married. How many women of real substance do we have these days..

That's a bloody lie!! Everybody is agrovated! Those guys then were playing too

@ reyginus. Ok I will do the work for you.
http://www.illusions.org/

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion

3. You were the one that said all absolute statements are true

Explain Joshua's belief that the sun revolves around the earth.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]How so? I am still not seeing the link between supernatural and non-existence.[/quote]The attribute of Supernatural is the idea that God despite his character, can act beyond it. Which is irrational.