₦airaland Forum

@Tbaba

The article pointed out a lot.

First it identifies the influence of the ancient Greek philosophers/thinkers on the Muslims on the primacy of Reason. The message of Islam was interpreted liberally to accommodate Reason and Faith side to side. Therefore religiously justifying the search of knowledge outside the Koran. The results were tolerance and promotion of learning centers, accommodating outside ideologies;

But when the hardliners took over, a shadow descended on the Muslim world. Europe was exploring and leaving the Dark Age behind. Strict and literal reading of the Quran is continued today.

Second, the role of Authority. The scientific method is a system that will conflict with a highly hierarchical society. Are muslims encouraged to question their fundamental beliefs, contemplate the sacred. Etc.

My friction point keeps changing, sometimes its so low, other times its more than halfway.

^^
I think you didn't read the article at all, because you did JUST exactly what it predicted: took a journey to the past.

[quote author=acidosis™]Jesus is alive.. I don't know where muhammed is??

No one shares that powerful name with him JESUS. everyone now answers muhammed.. even boko haram, police man, ritualists, thieves + s e .x workers..[/quote]Is Jesus alive? That question should be answerable by non believers too, so at least the believers wouldn't be caught in delusion.

vedaxcool: Water boiling is quite insignificant to a highly complicated universe. Good you note, it couldn't have happened randomly, hence a a cause and effect. The water boiling could have been purposely set up to boil by an intelligent agent. The universe couldn't have cause itself to happen neither could the water have cause itself to boil. We cannot just ignore basic common sense that remarks the universe did not just pop out like that.

Such a process could be "hijacked" by an intelligent agent.

The Universe is a large container of bubbling entities, particles, energy interacting, forming up larger bodies which interact with other large bodies.

So without an intelligent agent, the Universe will still exist.

The worst stain on the Prophet was the execution of prisoners of war.

Uyi Iredia: I see So who has seen an ape evolve into a man ?

This is not helpful and could mislead one to think you are ignorant. The change from the common ancestor among apes to human is said to have taken over a million years, being aware of that fact; wouldn't it be disingenious to expect a scientist to directly observe such a change within his life time!?!

Uyi Iredia: There are. Read books like The Necessity Of Atheism and educate yourself. There are atheist positions on the universe. How can you say infinity doesn't exist when numbers & shapes are infinite ? You must be stup1d.

Such alternate explanations are individual positions not general nor necessary.

vedaxcool: on the first, no you would conclude it strayed to you yard and/or someone left it there. again you would further conclude it had an owner whom it strayed from.

We conclude that it defies logic for a highly complicated universe which operates under numerous laws etc to exist just by a matter of chance of random process.

Whenever I witness water boiling at 100 degrees, I don't conclude that such behaviour is a result of random chance, rather a characteristic of water and heat. Neither is it the effect of an intelligent agent.

vedaxcool: Since the atheist cannot address the Pink Unicorn argument we are left to draw the following conclusion:

The man who woke one day to meet a Pink Unicorn in front of his house believes logically that someone made the unicorn and someone placed the unicorn front of his house.

That it goes against common sense for anybody to believe that matter can simply appear from nowhere.

Because of the above, We then draw the following:

Something must essentially come from another

Nothing can only produce nothing

The Pink Unicorn couldn't have been formed from a random process.

It was formed from clearly defined process.

These simple facts essentially remains the reason why atheism cannot be my style.

I find this strangely intelligent, however replace the unicorn with a horse. You find a horse on your doorstep, would you conclude a man made it?!

Why should we conclude that man's design examples are absolutely universal. The fact that we design cars does mean a person with our capacities designed the Universe?

But most muslims are against such expressions. Many muslim countries following public opinion banned the video

vedaxcool: ^^^

Quite telling of the futility in trying to reason with nl grade of atheists! Atleast in the hieght of their rational intellect, because a few people engange in gay practice the whole world essentially becomes gays because they reasoned so!

But you believed the movie maker ought to be punished, didn't you? You and the rioters both agree any expression against Islam is as deadly as a physical one, but split on the mode of punishment.

The anti islamic expressions as the innocence of the muslims and the French cartoons gave us the opportunity to discuss our minds and paradigms.

Many muslims over the social media kept on advocating on the peaceful nature of islam and of how violence is a taboo and often quoted the Koranic verse: stating no compulsion in Islam.

I came across the Ten Commandments during that time and I was struck by the "thou shall not kill" commandment. It sounds very much like a pacifists' anthem, it suggested an absolute rule. However a peep into the Jewish history and the remainder of the Bible, opens up the context and subject of special application. It didn't cover outsiders and foreign states, it was exempt from God's commands.

Just the same way with the Muslims. The Prophet wasn't just a spiritual leader, but also a political and military leader. He found the religion on violence, protected and promoted the image and doctrines of Islam with violence. He fought wars of dominace against various Arab tribes.

His successors followed his footsteps, made politics and religion inseparable. The riots followed the trend set by the Prophet, a natural indignation common among muslims at an attack at the Image of Islam which is believed to have as much weight as violent attack. Therefore violence in form of State coercion/sanction, towards blasphemers (hanging and firing squads) or public outcrys/riots.

The Rushdie incident for example, fatwas around the world spelling death for the writer, tens of ppl were killed in Muslim protests. Same with the Danish cartoons, the entire Muslim world erupted in violence, protesting and rioting. And with the same consistency, the anti Islam video received the same agitation.

In my view to say Islam is peaceful, is as deceitful as Judaism is peace.

Uyi Iredia: MacDunce01 There are 2 major atheist positions on the beginning of the universe. One is that it has no beginning (i.e it is eternal). The second is that the universe came from nothing. Saying you don't know is intellectually sloppy since it is one's duty to know. That's what science is all about - knowledge. With what has being said your claim of the nothing from nothing argument being a strawman falls flat. BTW, God is believed to be eternal. The concept of time is meaningless to anything that is eternal.

"I don't know" is valid enough.

Uyi Iredia: And I'm sick and tired of atheists as yourself pretending that their position doesn't require them to believe that either the universe sprang out of nothing or it always existed. Saying that they don't know is a cheap cop-out to prevent investigation into this all important matter of where the universe came from.

The only thing an atheist has to do is simply disagree with the theist on the fundamental subject of discussion: God. An alternate cosmological model is a further point at disagreement.

FMK: you should rather ask the creator of everything what was the purpose creating life because ,the unconsciousness is the river that everyone crossed to come out in the other side called life if consciousness existed in one side, no one could accept to born because life means nothing. But the creator knows what are we doing in living

Life covers the Creator as well, I would have to accept that the Creator is conscious and not a conscious dead mass. So the question still covers him.

What if we will simply be disillusioned with our lack of purpose?

plaetton: I think the purpose of life is for the slow , but steady evolution of consciousness.
Every single life, from the micro-organism, germs, bacteria, right to the human being, all contribute their quota, no matter how small, to the evolution of consciousness, as well as in its physical manifestations.
Thus, evolution seems to be the driving force behind all existence. Everything is striving to be different, and perhaps,better than the its previous level.
In the human sphere, every single person participates, either by actions or inactions, in determining and ultimately shaping the type of society that we live in.
On the individual level,most people spend all their lives either in the shadows of others, or, in the cocoons of their various isms. Many seek growth by accumulations(thanks to the name-it-claim-it theology of the evangelicals), while others seek the exploration of nature and insights about existence.

Bottom line is, at the end, we would have contributed something, either genetically, by way of reproduction, or by contributing our own accumulated knowledge and insights. Either way, we add to the evolution of consciousness.

But evolution is an unconscious function targeted at living, but why do we live?

obadiah777: life on this side is meaningless. vanity vanity all is vanity. however on the other side it will be meaningful. so your purpose in life on this side is to hustle for a meaningful position on the other side.

Is Life that hopeless that we have to project an alternate reality after this, either real or imagined?!

So life is for total happiness?

And I'm sick and tired of theists (traditional ones esp.) of assuming an atheist necessarily believes that out of Nothing, the world springs out! Its annoying.

Looking at Life as a whole, from plants to microorganisms to complex conscious Life. Why are we(Life) existing? Would the Universe be any better without us? Should we be useful at all? What's the measure of usefulness, if so. Is it of personal satisfaction or external?

Or we are mere spectators?

Spiritual explanations are acceptable, but must address purpose of Life.

Heaven is a utopia, everyone has one

Imagine two ideologies, which don't communicate, share, trust each other, draw boundaries btw themselves; what would be the consequence? Division. If islam is willing to distance itself from the world, it can't avoid being violent, extreme and intolerant.

[quote author=ghazzal]@Kay 17. if islam claims believe of past prophets(noah, ...abraham, moses..etc) and that the ways of God does not change. do you expect a different thing. it has a reaffirmation of the truth of the past before it so if you say that is copy, u choose to see it so[/quote

The irony of islam is that it approves and validates the teachings of Christianity as the Word of God, and as the Word of God is, incorruptible and complete. By denying the necessary implication invalidating Islam. Islam can't complement a complete doctrine, neither can the word of God be frustrated and corrupted.

The problem with Islam is a problem of a "true religion". The various divisions all believe they are on the right/true track and violence, indignation are natural consequences.

To those that say islam is peace, that's a big misconception. Because a religion of 1400 yrs can't be given a simplistic explanation. Violence isn't a taboo to islam, and its generously used to defend itself.

Attacking its doctrines, Prophet verbally is seen as a justification for violence.

I think the Devil provides a reason for God to be relevant.

Islam being a copycat, adopted the dualism.

I think only physical worlds have spaces. Thus implying that a spiritual dimension is invented

Uyi Iredia accepts micro evolution and its evidence. But I go further in seeing micro evolution as a step, and such multiple steps lead up to "macro evolution"

The one I want to know is how one gets to know he has a brain and its location, without any sort of experience.

Just another option.

^^ for the mere reason that he is omnipotent and almighty, numerous options instantly appear for him.

Primodial "somethingness" is probably the simplest substance and building blocks of existence. Probably matter or energy.

In my belief, the answer for why there is something rather than nothing doesn't necessitate God's existence.