Sagamite:

See prayers for crowd.

AFRICANS!

LOL

Bad belle wan kill Gerrard and hin yeye tackle  

Abeg I want goals, liverPOO is too small for all this delay. Punish them boys

Ok.

PhysicsQED:

All this dogon turenchi from Northerners like this fellow Adamu and Sanusi about religion and "intellectual development" yet Gombe couldn't produce more than 17 candidates for university admission out of a group of 18,000 that took qualification [b]exams. Maybe they were too busy relying on "divine guidance"? And it was also found that government officials had stolen millions of dollars meant specifically to improve education in the state. Maybe they were "divinely guided" to loot their state like mad.

Judaism and its offshoots are full of ritual and "pagan-like" mystical "obscurantism", but the author of this article is too daft to even know that. When he figures out why all those Muslims, every year, perform that ritual in which they gather around an inanimate object that they claim Abraham or somebody important touched, maybe then he'll realize what a fool he is. What is "animist" or "pagan" if not the belief that a stone is imbued with some spiritual importance because somebody said to be holy touched it or used it? And these same Muslims that travel miles to gather around a black rock in the desert will look down upon the few remaining Maguzawa and other pagan Hausa as "stone worshipers". I dey laff!


Soyinka = Nobel laureate[/b]

Adamu Adamu = A man with two first names, no achievements, and no insight to offer

I'm sorry I have to quote this again.

@kobojunkie, I was not trying to respond to your post. But maybe if you can be more specific about what you expect from Soyinka then I might have a better response for you.

But I'll try:

You referred to him not taking issues to the court, but he took this one to the court didn't he? I doubt this is his first time

Soyinka = a writer, so he's using his talent to address issues facing his people, country and community

The Great Gani Fawehinmi = a Lawyer, he did exactly the same with his talent and abilities.

Except I misunderstood your particular objection to his efforts, I fail to see your point.

PhysicsQED:

All this dogon turenchi from Northerners like this fellow Adamu and Sanusi about religion and "intellectual development" yet Gombe couldn't produce more than 17 candidates for university admission out of a group of 18,000 that took qualification exams. Maybe they were too busy relying on "divine guidance"? And it was also found that government officials had stolen millions of dollars) meant specifically to improve education in the state. Maybe they were "divinely guided" to loot their state like mad.

Judaism and its offshoots are full of ritual and "pagan-like" mystical "obscurantism", but the author of this article is too daft to even know that. When he figures out why all those Muslims, every year, perform that ritual in which they gather around an inanimate object that they claim Abraham or somebody important touched, maybe then he'll realize what a fool he is. What is "animist" or "pagan" if not the belief that a stone is imbued with some spiritual importance because somebody said to be holy touched it or used it? And these same Muslims that travel miles to gather around a black rock in the desert will look down upon the few remaining Maguzawa and other pagan Hausa as "stone worshipers". I dey laff!


Soyinka = Nobel laureate

Adamu Adamu = A man with two first names, no achievements, and no insight to offer

That stuff in bold is funny.

Anyway, I'm glad some folks can see through the sudden rush to criticize Soyinka.

At least if Soyinka did not achieve anything with his recent thoughtful rhetoric on this issue, he has succeeded in forcing more so-called northern muslim intellectuals out of their self-imposed shell, their conspiracy of noisy silence.

I admire those who spoke out before now, I'm glad more northern voices are joining the conversation. Time to stop sleeping while your house burn.

Wole Soyinka has stayed pretty consistent in his agitation for equity and freedom on behalf of the people of this counrty. He carried a gun when he had to, but more importantly he has consistently used his talent and art to bring vital issues to the front while calling attention to the fundamental problems we have.

We need more of him not less.

Since history is no longer a subject in our schools,

Really? Secondary School? No way, is this true? When did that happen?

IG:

Rabeh Azzubair Ibn Fadlallah
A great but brutal warrior who has conquered and ruled Kanem-Borno empire for 8 years before being killed in war. He was a major obstacle to the france's aim of conquering central Africa, an area he has largely conquered. Europeans call him the Napoleon of Africa. Rabeh's campaign in Borno is the source of the relative rivalry between the Kanuris and the Shuwa Arabs today in Borno.

Wikipedia's account of him is fairly accurate and I reproduce part of it below.A great but brutal warrior who has conquered and ruled Kanem-Borno empire for 8 years before being killed in war. He was a major obstacle to the france's aim of conquering central Africa, an area he has largely conquered. Europeans call him the Napoleon of Africa. Rabeh's campaign in Borno is the source of the relative rivalry between the Kanuris and the Shuwa Arabs today in Borno.
 
Wikipedia's account of him is fairly accurate and I reproduce part of it below.

Quote
Conquest of Borno (1893)

In 1893, Rabih also turned his attentions to the Borno Empire of Shehu (king) Ashimi of Borno. Borno was a Sahelian region that traced its origins back to the Middle Ages. That year, the empire consisted of 80,000 soldiers, mostly slaves commanded by slaves, and was in full decline.

On the road to Borno, Rabih made prisoner the sultan of Karnak Logone, whose capital promptly opened its doors to his host. Shehu Ashimi of Borno sent 15,000 men to confront Rabih; the latter routed them in May or September 1893 first at Am Hobbio (south of Dikoa) and then at Legaroua with only 2,000 horse. Ashimi fled north of the Komadougou Yobe from where he may have tried to negotiate with Rabih; but he was assassinated at the instigation of his nephew Kyari, who then became shehu and decided to fight Rabih. Rabih met Kyari at Gashegar, a two days' walk from Kukawa, the capital of Borno; Kiyari defeated Rabih af

In 1899, Rabih received in Dikoa the French explorer Ferdinand de Béhagle. The talks between them degenerated, and Béhagle was arrested. On July 17, Lieutenant Bretonnet, who had been sent by France against Rabih, was killed with most of his men at Togbao, at the edge of the Chari River, in present-day Sarh. Rabih gained three cannons from this victory (which the French recaptured at Kousséri) and ordered his son Fadlallah, who he had left in Dikoa, to hang Béhagle.

In response, a French column proceeding from Gabon and led by Émile Gentil, supported by the steamboat Leon Blot, confronted Rabih at Kouno at the end of the year. Even if the French were repulsed with losses, this did not prevent them from continuing and taking Kousséri. Here, they combined with the Lamy column, which had arrived from Algeria, and the Joalland-Meynier column, which had marched from Niger. Lamy assumed command of the combined forces.

The final showdown between Rabih and the French took place on April 22, 1900. The French forces disposed of 700 men, plus the 600 riflemen and 200 cavalry provided by the allied Baguirmians. Leaving Kousséri in three columns, the French attacked Rabih's camp. Although the commander Lamy was killed in the ensuing battle, Rabih's forces were overwhelmed and, while fleeing across the Chari River, Rabih was killed.

With Rabih's defeat, his empire rapidly disintegrated. A year later his son Fadlallah was defeated and killed, while his chief vassal, Mohammed al-Senussi, was murdered in 1911 at French instigation. All Rabih's territories fell into French hands, except for Borno which went to Britain.


According to Borno elders Rabeh killed the french commander Lamey just befor he himself died. I think that's one thing the Wikipedia article failed to say. Rabeh may be a tyrant, but he was also a great warrior.

IG,

I just went back to re-read this post, it's quite interesting. From Borno to Benin, it's obvious that our ancestors tried and fought galantly to repel the influence and control of europeans, this rabih even killed French commanders, just like Oba Ovonramwen did against the British.

The same story was told across many of our old kingdoms, that we eventually fell under their control is not the whole story, we should tell these histories more. Great contribution, thanks for sharing. Please share more if you can.

^

Tony Spike, are you fishing around for ideas? A park? Business venture or is it just curiosity?

It will be great it you can share. I read that the Ekiti State Govt is interested in Kiriji war re-enactments, documentaries or even tourism ideas. It will be great if you can share more about your interests. I'm interested too.

Someone should list the Kiriji war Generals here. I'll try when I get a minute.

^

Be easy on them, a lot of the posters here are young, many don't have the patience or time to read beyond 2 short paragraphs.

I defer to Negro-Ntns on this one. Smart brotha!

He made all the point's I wanted to make.


@Topic

If you are reading this thread and you are hiding a Kiriji war memorabilia in your grandmother's bedroom, please take a picture and share, don't be like my brother Ekt-bear, we want to see history.

Well, if they failed to learn from us that goes to show how close-minded and ignorant they were.

Ignorance and closemindedness is synonymous with backwardness.


I'm specifically referring to  Arabs and Europeans here because the argument about Fulanis, I will not even entertain at all. There's absolutely no reason to think of Fulanis as more "advanced"

I'm more concerned about the argument being made on behalf of their so-called teachers: Arabs and maybe Europeans.

hercules07:

Seems I am in a minority here, can we have records of when the europeans came and when we had contact with the fulani and Arabs. Anyway that is my opinion sha, its been a nice and cultured debate.

I think you misunderstood my objection. The issue is not with when they came or who came first, It's about what you said they brought.

Neither of those two brought my people civilization. They brought hegemony and pure ideological marketing and it worked, but we were already civilized in our own way.

Yea good discussions really, I enjoyed your contributions.

LOL @ NegroNtns, E seun modupe. Ase!

@Isale I get your point. I agree in principle. But it's hard to understand our brand of unity in the face of this Nigerian chaos.

PanAfrican unity needs to answer the same questions first. I'm all for purposeful unity.

Hercules,

Hegemony is not Civilization.

Bro, Arabs, Romans or the English did not civilize my people, the same way your Iyan-loving friend did not civilize you just because he influenced you to take up ikokore instead of pounded Iyan.

Arabs counted, I counted. Just because they wrote out their own stuff in Arabic numerals or Roman ones did not invalidate my own Oyeku Ogbe meji knowledge.

Mullah Sheik Abdullahi wrote symbols Baba Awo Ifasiminiye wrote Okan, eji, eta, erin. Counting is counting, they civilized me NOT.

isale_gan2:

Speechless.

Thank you o jare.  

Continuing with sentiments previously expressed by other commenters, this is a valuable and informative thread where the lively participatory and contributory style is making it even more interesting.  

I hope that people can see why some of us favor a united Nigeria that serves as a beacon for the rest of Africa.  Learn from history.  If you don't know your history, you are doomed to neverending failure.  Understand that people will always find reasons to break into smaller and smaller parts.  Yes, each ethnic group is "united" now, but break Nigeria into 2 or 3 parts, with the Yorubas in their Odualand and the Igbos in their Biafra, and the same sentiments that tore Nigeria apart will rear its ugly jealous hateful head in each of those new countries!  I;m not saying anyone is particularly prone to wars, but it takes a small group of disaffected people to get the populace riled up against a phantom oppressor.

I don't want to belabour things.  I only want to emphasise the need to be less myopic.  So many people want Nigeria to break apart because of tribal sentiments - well, trust me, when you don't have the Igbos or Hausas or Yorubas to kick around anymore, you will turn on yourselves.  If it's not tribal or clannish, it will be religious.  It happens all the time.  (India continues to deal with "tribal" issues, just as Pakistan, ever since their breakup.)

How long will Africa continue to break up?  Nigeria into 3 parts?  Then each of those new "nations" break up further - before it's all done, Nigeria will have broken up into 240 tribal countries.  Or maybe each clan  will have it's own country.  lol.  

/off my soapbox.  It had to be said.  No offense sha.   

Back on topic.  

Can I get on that soapbox? Thank you.

Ok here it goes;

I understand the need for unity and all that Pan African, Pan Nigerian good stuff, it's a valid argument, but it's hard to force unity upon yourself in the face of untold hardship and pure exploitation. Yes, I too want Nigeria to remain united but when that unity is an impediment to Development, a tool for control and a yoke that is pulled and controlled by a minority group of overlords it's hard to see the need for it.

Unity in Nigeria was the song our Military controlled Government sang for several decades, it was their main tool of control, the excuse upon which many acts of inhumanity were based and explained away.

Yes. we cannot rule out conflict even in the most homogenous of societies, afterall brothers from monogamous homes do fight, but it becomes too big to swallow when that idea of unity is a tool of oppression in itself.

For example, Gowon, after the Biafran war declared no victor no vanquished, which was one the dumbest statements ever made by a Nigerian leader. The mentality that brought about that declaration from Gowon is the prevalent mentality in Nigerian leadership, I'll explain:

Gowon, through that statement, rolled into motion another 3 decades of Ostriching, his inability to deal with the main Nigerian questions. Which is "why are we together" what is the basis of our unity? What are the binding ideals of this nation? Led us to where we are today, of course Gowon did not create Nigeria, but he wasted a great opportunity by hiding the cause of that war under the idea of "no victor no vanquished"

I told that story because I see many defenders of unity doing the same. Unity is not a virtue if it's resultant effects are oppression, poverty and disillusionment, we cannot have unity in the absence of liberty, freedom and equality.

Those egalitarian principles are missing in this country. We've had several opportunities to correct and reset it, but we've constantly failed to take advantage of them. So I seriously sympathise with those who are calling for a foundational shake-up or even a break up, something that will radically force us to answer the questions demanded by our forced togetherness.

Until we answer those fundamental questions, this faux unity will remain a liability, a very good tool in the hands of those who seek to profit from our chaotic arrangement.

The lessons of the Kiriji wars are clear in this context, unity is possible, but it must not be based on fear and oppression. It must be in the spirit of shared values that are tempered with egalitarian principles. No idea is more important than our collective well being. Even unity.

I now step down from the soap box  

jmaine:

Yes he is [img]http://2.bp..com/_v4db_cQ55tE/TP0s7sQ08KI/AAAAAAAAA44/-q2ReYITBYM/s320/Fayose.jpg[/img]

Ayo "Jmaine" Fayose is that you?  

hercules07:

civilisation initially came from the North before the arrival of the British.

This is wrong.

Explain what you mean by civilization.

ekt_bear:

Wow. Powerful words.

Indeed. I read it twice. The whole thing.

The Nigerian experiment needs a re-boot,.I'm just worried that we don't have people with strong conviction in leadership right now, that worries me a lot.

People need leaders.

I just hope people will listen to him before they they start seeing AK47's and long knives at their doorstep.

So?

Won't you rather break up an unworkable arrangement than suffer in silence forever?

Tony Spike:

@hercules07,

The major problem in Nigeria is that history is no longer taught in our schools. It will only take an inquisitive mind in Nigeria to study and research deep into our past. Ironically, it is said that "people who forget their past history cannot successfully progress into the future".

Enough said, this history must be taught undistorted to our young ones. The SW history has a greater role to play to our young minds as this can help them solve recurring societal problems in the future.

We have enough scholars and they wrote a lot and left us with a lot to explore and build on. The problem is with the Military designed school curriculum. They were inadequate and they still are.

If Nigeria had stuck to her original regional arrangement, I'm sure we would have designed better curriculum for our children and students. Historians like Bolanle Awe actually spoke with people who lived with or were children of those warriors and she brilliantly documented their stories in her writings. Of course she built on the great works of the Yoruba pioneer historian Samuel Johnson

The Military, in their quest for control bastardized our education system, it's all about control. What we need is to return. Few things liberate the mind faster than a good sense of history, a good sense of who you are and where you came from.

~Sauron~:

Historical parks?
People worship or make sacrifices in most of those battle-grounds till today.

NO,  It does not have to be on the hallowed battle grounds.

We can place parks in close proximity if local folks dont wan't their sacred battle grounds desecrated by pimpled faced fat kids.

Okemesi will be a good location, there is nothing to lose after all, you better jump on board, your yam economy won't take you too far o 

Katsumoto:

No need for name calling.

Na you know, defender of the caucasus mountains 

tpia@:

@ topic

maybe folks should have civil/kiriji war renactments like Americans do.

Yes these civil wars need historical parks. If I have money, I'll work on it.

Even people wey no protest sef dem don reduce their own price

and they almost killed us into submission here 

Negro_Ntns:



lmao!!! the original or made in Aba?

Original ke? that is sacrilegious.

They used only home made copies

DK, e ku aigbagbe. I've not visited Ogbomoso in a long time, I'm encouraged to go pay homage to the city were warriors fear to misbehave.

Afonja laya loko

Was Afonja gay?

How can he "l'aya l'oko" ? I must be misreading that sha.

Sorry couldn't resist

ACM, Bros. don't mind all these Yoruba boasters, they make mouth over ordinary inter-tribal wrestling.

Please tell them about Umuleri Aguleri Fulani war, I heard people were beheading their enemies with Toyota crankshaft, it is true?