₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Good afternoon brother. I verily understand the wicked power of the flesh and I was once under it, but I broke away from it because I laid the Law before my eyes (as David recommended) and acted on it in defiance of how I felt about it.

And viola, one day, sin and and all manners of sin became a great annoyance unto me and I began to hate all the peoples of this world for I saw and see all the wickedness that they do, Exactly as it Written "Love not the world".

And I in Truth Hated the world which I accomplished through the Keeping of The Law before my eyes as David said.

And this song was also my fuel!

"To keep Your lovely face
Ever before my eyes
This is my prayer
Make it my strong desire
That in my secret heart
No other love competes
No rival throne survives
And I serve only You"

And if it works for you as you've stated here, then I can only be HAPPY for you and pray for God's GRACE to help you sustain what you have in Jesus' name...Stay well and God bless you.

Dtruthspeaker:
Yes, Through Showing us how we can mindfully and Rightfully Obey The Law!

Smiles! I see that you are very strong willed here. If you truly BELIEVE in this as a gospel truth, well , I'll just respect your view and live it right there. After all, "to each they say his own"

Kobojunkie:
What exactly is it that I am mixing up according to your Bible?
I think you are the one who hasn't been paying attention at all. In order to receive grace which you call the Spirit of God, one does indeed have to believe first. There is no doubt about that as it says so in the Word of God. Now, the act of believing itself an act of obedience to the commandment given by Jesus Christ Himself in John 5 vs 24.
The difference in opinion is of a matter of a personal nature...so consider this. Of what value this personal idea/opinion where the Word of God is concerned?

I think you are the one who hasn't been paying attention at all. In order to receive grace which you call the Spirit of God, one does indeed have to believe first. There is no doubt about that as it says so in the Word of God. Now, the act of believing itself an act of obedience to the commandment given by Jesus Christ Himself in John 5 vs

well, since you admit that: one has to believe first in order to be saved by GRACE, that's all that matters to me. Getting the truth to you. Thanks and stay bless

Dtruthspeaker:
I know it is said "A long trip always begins with step 1 and it is tiny drops of rain that fills a tank!

Little steps is all a baby used to walk!

I do not claim to have kept all 613 but I do Truly say I have not Strove with any man for no just cause neither do I wilfully or uncaringly harm a man nor deprive him of his due.

Which is why I always restate this pronouncement of Law

"The Tenets of The Law are To Live Honestly, To Harm No One and To Give to Each this Due!"


It is not Galatians that Said So but The Law'ers
(The Levitra) starting at Deuteronomy 27:14-26 (Please take out time to examine the Curses).

Then the Next Curses are Specific to Israel because they were Given to Gift of God's Righteous Laws, Deuteronomy 28:15-68.



That is why I said Try It, Keep The Law First and see if you won't develop a taste for keeping The Law thereby destroying the power of the flesh!



Which of us knew The Law to Obey it? No, not One, Even the people who were given The Law fled from it and Obeyed it not, s o how could any man obey The Law, which has practically disappeared?

That's why Christ Came!

He Brought it back, and re-empowered it and taught us that That The Law is Waiting for Us.

Which is why ALL HIS TEACHINGS ARE THE VERY TEACHINGS OF THE LAW IF IT COULD HAVE SPOKEN.

BUT CHRIST THEREFORE VOICED OUT THE LAW.

WHICH IS WHY I ALWAYS CHALLENGE ANYONE, CAN THEY FIND A TEACHING OF CHRIST'S WHICH IS NOT THE LAW?

ALL HIS TEACJINGS HAVE THEIR ROOT AND STEM AND BRANCHES IN THE LAW!



As I said pay Obey The Law First in Truth and See if you would not change!

I do challenge you to prove me Wrong!

Obey The Law First, I Guarantee you, that you would see that the power the flesh has over you would begin to die if you Truly want it to die!

Good afternoon.
I really do salute your drive and hunger for the truth that epitomizes the gospel of Christ. However, I enjoin you to please, carefully take note of my following comments as regards the issues you've raised. Saying this however, is not to imply that I'm better than anyone. please don't get it twisted; my desire is that: together with you and everyone else, we shall all know the truth and only the truth about the gospel, for only then, can we be sure of our salvation. Thanks.

I do not claim to have kept all 613 but I do Truly say I have not Strove with any man for no just cause neither do I wilfully or uncaringly harm a man nor deprive him of his due.

This is exactly my point in the opposite. You really do have to understand very deeply what this 'FLESH' is all about my friend. This FLESH as contained in the bible is the same evil power we inherited from our first ancestor Adam. He in turn, got it from the serpent(devil) at the Garden of Eden when he disobeyed God by eating the forbidden fruit. This FLESH is the same thing as the sin ruling our lives as individuals today. And there is a FACE to what you know as sin today. That FACE/ MAN behind every activity that you know as sin today is the DEVIL. Mind you, you can never know everything about sin, as it is not a particular activity. Rather, it is a way of life (a LIFESTYLE). I really can't do much to expose the FLESH here in this BRIEF comment. Please visit my profile and see more about it there. So, I hope you can now understand what I meant, when I said you could not be able to obey the LAW 100% and be faithful by your human effort without the help of the HOLY SPIRIT... The HOLY SPIRIT, is the power you'll receive through your union with Christ Jesus that will help you to conquer/defeat this evil power called FLESH in you. Reason why I said: you can't do it own your own except by GRACE which is found only in Christ Jesus.

It is not Galatians that Said So but The Law'ers
(The Levitra) starting at Deuteronomy 27:14-26 (Please take out time to examine the Curses).

Please, flip your bible open to Galatians 3:10. You'll see it there. That's the scripture I actually quoted to you.


That's why Christ Came!

He Brought it back, and re-empowered it and taught us that That The Law is Waiting for Us.

The actual reason why Christ came was to help us deal with this FLESH that I just told you about. He came to help us destroy it(FLESH) in the body and in our lives as a whole, so that: we can become free from the FLESH in order to be able to bear good fruit for God in the right way we should. Remember that: our righteousness according to the scripture is like a filthy rag before God. And any act of righteousness we try to do before coming to Christ, is called self righteousness(our type of righteousness) which God describes as a filthy rag before Him...True righteousness my friend(the God type of righteousness) is only found in Christ Jesus by GRACE...Thanks and do have a great afternoon.

elated177:
Do you mean the Ten Commandments? Why don't you want to use the Ten Commandments?




It would seem you have said something, but the opposite is the case. You only ended up dancing around what was asked of you. This is what happens when people just lift the words of the Scripture and jumble them up without actually understanding what they are trying to relate. In the same breath you said the Law ended immediately it revealed what sin was and that it had been put in our hearts? Which is it?



You failed the give the Scriptural definition of sin. Sin has been defined in the Scripture. Are you saying that sin is not an activity? Are you saying that an act which was sin today may not be sin tomorrow?



In your op, an unwary seeker would extrapolate a different view.



Freed from the Law? Again, you mean the Ten Commandments, right?

How can you be freed from the Law and still have the Law in your heart?

What are the "old ways of the written Law"?

Do you mean the Ten Commandments? Why don't you want to use the Ten Commandments?= Smiles! they are not just ten(10) my brother. They are actually 613. And all the 613 laws together are called the law of Moses.


It would seem you have said something, but the opposite is the case. You only ended up dancing around what was asked of you. This is what happens when people just lift the words of the Scripture and jumble them up without actually understanding what they are trying to relate. In the same breath you said the Law ended immediately it revealed what sin was and that it had been put in our hearts? Which is it?

smiles! please you need to understand that everything contained in the law that was given to Moses is right in the HOLY SPIRIT we receive through Christ. The reason why the written aspect of the LAW was set aside is that; sin, is a lifestyle not a particular activity. By that, it means that: it evolves and changes with time, where as the written LAW does not change to accommodate modern reality with respect to sin. Hence, the need to sum all the written LAWS in one person called the HOLY SPIRIT. Because, the HOLY SPIRIT changes as much as sin does in order to reveal to you today, what sin constitute in addition to what it was before Christ came...So, you can see that the HOLY SPIRIT offers a better package, because it takes care of sin as it is today and also changes as sin changes, thereby, opposing the written LAW which does not so change, but only tells you what sin was before christ came.


You failed the give the Scriptural definition of sin. Sin has been defined in the Scripture. Are you saying that sin is not an activity? Are you saying that an act which was sin today may not be sin tomorrow?

please try to understand my point before you comment bro. check the comment you quoted you would see that: i didn't say sin was not an activity, I only said it was not a particular activity alone, as you cannot tie it to a particular activity or a group of activities. Meaning, it changes as we progress in time. There are so many things that constitute sin today that were never known years back. so that's it

Freed from the Law? Again, you mean the Ten Commandments, right?= I just explained this up there. We are actually freed from the written document given to Moses, that was what helped us to know what sin was, because then, Christ had not come with the HOLY SPIRIT. Now that Christ is here with the HOLY SPIRIT, the written document ended its usefulness and everything is now in our hearts by the HOLY SPIRIT.

How can you be freed from the Law and still have the Law in your heart?

What are the "old ways of the written Law"?

All these other two(2) questions are linked to the one above. So check the explanation given to the above question, it rightly suffice here. Thanks and God bless you

Kobojunkie:
So, did God lie when He declared Abraham righteous in Genesis 26 because of His works done in obedience of His commands, statutes and rules, work that is in fact the kind of Faith God desires over and over from those who believe in Him?
Jesus Christ also calls for the same kind of Faith when He declares that those of His followers who love Him are those who obey His commandments/teachings

So, is Jesus Christ wrong or did God somewhere change His mind as far as the kind of faith He desires, somehow forgetting to let Jesus Christ know of supposed change?

Good morning bro/sis.
you seem to be mixing things up according to my bible. I maintain for the last time that you believe first before you receive the GRACE by the spirit to obey God's commandments as oppose to what you claim. But it is ok, that you have a different opinion from this and I respect that to be honest, as that's the beauty of life after. I will only pray for God to enlighten us more with His understanding so that we can serve Him better. Thanks a lot and God bless you.

elated177:
Are you saying that prior to the coming of the Messiah, he didn't have the Spirit of the Father in him? Are you of the opinion that the Son only became the Word when he came into the world?

Again, because of the way you lift the words of the Scriptures and jumble them up without actually grasping what they are really saying, you will always end up not only confusing yourself, but also the unwary reader of your message.

What is the difference between the Word and the Messiah?

What really is the Word of God?

Good afternoon bro.
So, addressing your concerns beginning with the first paragraph, Jesus had the spirit of the Father even before He became the Messiah(our saviour). Just to set a record straight bro, I never express my opinion as an authority in explaining the gospel, as my opinion means nothing and will never stand alone in the face of the gospel. So please take note brother.

Answering you again in the last line of your first paragraph, Jesus had been the word of God even before He came into the world.

What is the difference between the Word and the Messiah?= No difference sir. He (Jesus) only became the Messiah when He agreed to come into the world for our salvation.

What really is the Word of God?= The word of God is the same as the SPIRIT of God. And it was that word/spirit of God in Christ that made Him become the word of God... Just hope you understand this. Thanks

Dtruthspeaker:
Good morning, Brother!

The bolded is what I knew would be the end of your post, for the Truth is No Man is TRYING to Obey The Law and they do have the power to but they refuse to.

Eg How many times has God said do not trust in riches or money, yet look at men, do they not labour to be rich and work for money?

God says stick to your wages, yet do they not Steal, saying "I no go slack" even before they are tempted?

My contribution is that Christ came to Re-emphasize The Law Laying before us what we choose to do vs. what The Law has instructed and recommended we ought to do!

It is this Teaching which makes Him "The Way"!

Hmmm! bro, I think you need to understand that there were 613 LAWS to obey. Also understand the position of God concerning those LAWS. The scripture in Galatians says: whoever fails to keep all the LAWS(613 LAWS) and obey them always is under God's curse. Meaning a failure to keep and obey 1 out of the said 613 LAWs, automatically amounts to a failure in all of them. So, then, who do you think had the power as FLESH(Sinners) that they were at that time to obey all. Who do you think had the power to really obey those LAWS always bro? Be sincere to your self please...Remember also that: the FLESH which is the evil power controlling every human being as flesh and blood would not have allowed anyone to obey the LAW, because that was his power to kill those under the LAW...Lastly, I'd like you to think this through: why do you think Christ came? if we could obey the LAW on our own, then, there was no point Him coming to the point of dieing to help us out with the LAW...Please get this bro, no one can be able to obey all the LAWs on his own without the GRACE that is found in Christ Jesus alone...And that GRACE comes to us only by FAITH and nothing else. Thanks

LisaAnneMia:
Thank you Jesus!

Amen o! God bless you

Kobojunkie:
Abel was directly descended from Adam, born after Adam was condemned to die for his sins, yet Abel obeyed the commands, statues/laws of God to be deemed righteous by God. So, What happened to this "flesh" or "human nature" where Abel was concerned?

After Abel were men like Enoch, Noah, Shem, Abraham, etc. all of whom obeyed God, keeping His commands/rules and statutes. Why didn't your "evil power" get to them if it is "human nature"? Is it possible that what you call "human nature" is simply man's will to choose whether to obey God or not?

Smiles! Please go to the book of Hebrew from chapter 11 down ward, you would see how these men believed in God and God declared them righteous all of them. Not because they did anything to deserve it, but only because they believed in Him and God declared them as righteous. know this: that whoever turns to God sincerely, that veil of sin erected against him and God is automatically torn by the presence of God... So, yes I still maintain that only by FAITH(BELIEVE) in Christ can all of us be saved. Nothing more and nothing less. Salvation is FREE my brother...God morning

Dtruthspeaker:
It is a horrible and a disgraceful thing when people do not stay in their place.

For would you go to a barber for appendicitis? Or would you go to a plumber to fix your car? Or would you call a farmer when the Police take you to Court?

Therefore, what you wrote is Wrong for it is Only A Levite or Law'er/Lawyer who can Truly give you the True interpretation of Matters of Law

Thus, what you wrote is a Legal presentation as given by a Farmer!

For if you were a Law'er, you would have known that the Purpose of The Law is Many To Wit-

1) To Separate Rightness and Goodness from wickedness and wrongness!

2) To Direct and Instruct the Doing of Righteousness and Goodness while preventing and condemning the doing of wickedness

3) To ensure and guarantee that all who obey the Law are Safe from Prosecution, Guilt, Condemnation and Punishment!

Just to mention a few Purposes!

Good morning bro. I think you missed my point actually. No one is saying that the LAW does not separate the righteous from the sinners. And no one ever said the LAW was never to guide and instruct those who are to walk with God. Neither was that my point of emphasis...My point actually was that: Because the LAW is HOLY, but on the flip side, we were never HOLY before Christ came. The scripture says: in sin were we conceived and that the whole world was under sin including you and I. Hence, no matter how we might have tried to obey the LAW, we could not because we lacked the power to do so. However, only through our union with Christ Jesus can we be able to satisfy the righteous demands of the LAW. So since the LAW was given 430 years before Christ came in whom we have the power to obey the LAW. It then means that the LAW was in place to reveal what sin is to us pending the coming of Christ who will now give us the higher power(HOLY SPIRIT) to help conquer sin in us so that we can effortlessly obey the LAW by GRACE in Christ Jesus. That's it bro. Just hope you do understand my point now...Thanks

Kobojunkie:
If you feel I am mistaken, you are free to show me, from the Gospel as taught by Jesus Christ, where you believe I have it wrong!

I really do differ with you in couple of areas to be honest. But, I just didn't want it to look like we are competing or arguing to prove who's right or wrong. I feel the word should be our guide as partners in the propagation of the gospel. That way, we'll learn and grow.

I differ with you in the area where you express that one has to obey God's commandments, rules and statutes first before he could be saved. But, I understand from the scripture that we were all conceived in sin and have the nature of sin in us.Hence, even though we may want to obey God's commandments, rules and States, we naturally cannot. Because those commandments are Holy by their nature. But we however, are not. For that reason, we need a higher power to help us obey them. And that power is found only in the HOLY SPIRIT. But how can we get the HOLY SPIRIT?. We can only get it by FAITH(BELIEVE) in Christ in whom the promise of the SPIRIT is found. Only in Him can we find the HOLY SPIRIT to help us obey all the commandments that we cannot obey own our own I.e by our HUMAN STRENGTH. Because trying to obey the commandments without FAITH, amounts to us using our human strength/power. Thanks, I hope this sinks.

Kobojunkie:
I don't know what bible you have there but according to Jesus Christ, you indeed have to do something to be saved. According to Jesus Christ, in order to be saved from Death, and receive eternal life(grace), He stipulates that you obey His commandments .i.e. believe He is who He says He is, be baptized, and eat communion.See the passages below from the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ

1. The passage below say all those who believe will receive eternal life in place of Death(perish/condemnation).

2. In the passage below, Jesus Christ goes on to say that one much eat His flesh and eat His blood in order to obtain eternal life.

3) In the passage below, Jesus Christ commands that those who believe and are baptized are those who are saved
Those who do not do as Jesus Christ commands are not saved from Death and instead remain condemned to die, as explained in John 3 vs 16 -21 above.

God lives inside of those who are holy but holiness requires works on the part of the one who wants to become Holy...and that work are done in obedience of God's every commandment, which according to Jesus Christ is the only way to becoming worthy of recieving His Spirit.
Wrong! Jesus Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel, and not for all of Israel. Even Jesus Christ told you that He has another flock which He tends and that flock is the flock that is the Jews of the Old Covenant. That is an entirely different topic but the point is. God has two separate flocks(the People of Israel, and the Son of God).

So many different meanings given to the word that in John simply refers to the grace we reserve from Death which is eternal life.
Anyways, so Grace for you is the power that is in the Spirit of God? And only those who continue to accept and obey the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ can obtain the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus Christ(see passage below).

like I've always maintained here, that the reason we engage ourselves in the word is to understanding better about the FAITH we profess and eventually grow. However, since you firmly believe that what you wrote up there is the truth regarding the gospel, then, I surrender and respect your VIEW...Praying for God to enlight us more with His understanding.Thanks a lot bro/sis....God bless us all

Kobojunkie:
What do you mean by your "walk" with Him?
Instead, the sum of our work done in obedience of God commands/rules/statutes amounts to our Faith in God.
I am afraid I don't understand what you mean here at all. According to God Himself, there is a separation between the Jews who belong to the Old Covenant, and those who belong in the New Covenant. Are you saying God is wrong in separating His People from the Sons?
Again with the bloody "deserve" word. The word never factors in anywhere were God is concerned. Every person, from Adam to the apostles, who believed in God at any point in their life, had a simple choice to make... God or not, simple! There are many who make the choice for God and eventually quit and there are others who stick it out till the end. The point is God does not force Himself on anyone. He let's men choose Him.
Does grace in your case refer to God's mercy and compassion? If yes, then it does not compute since
1) grace has existed since even the time of Adam, and
2)God pours out His mercy and compassion on men regularly, where even the unbelievers experience it in abundance as well.

Good evening my brother/sister. so, I do not agree with your first paragraph. According to the word of God, you do not have to do anything for you to be saved. Obeying His commandments, keeping His rules and statues notwithstanding. You only need to hear the gospel and believe it it, then, He(Christ) will send the HOLY SPIRIT, which will give you the power to then obey and keep His commandments and statues the right way. As anything you do before receiving the SPIRIT by FAITH, will amount to nothing...The scripture says: God is HOLY, and whoever that comes to Him must also be HOLY...However, note that: it is the spirit of God only that makes you HOLY.

Answering your second paragraph.
Yes, there used to be the JEWS and the GENTILES. But, that was before the coming of Christ Jesus. After Christ Jesus was revealed, both the JEWS and GENTILES and everyone else are all ONE in union with Christ. so that: whether JEW or GENTILE, it is by FAITH in Christ that we are all saved. All of us are God's sons and daughters now through Christ Jesus.

Again with the bloody "deserve" word. The word never factors in anywhere were God is concerned. Every person, from Adam to the apostles, who believed in God at any point in their life, had a simple choice to make... God or not, simple! There are many who make the choice for God and eventually quit and there are others who stick it out till the end. The point is God does not force Himself on anyone. He let's men choose Him.

Yes, I agree with this bro/sis.

Does grace in your case refer to God's mercy and compassion? If yes, then it does not compute since
1) grace has existed since even the time of Adam, and
2)God pours out His mercy and compassion on men regularly, where even the unbelievers experience it in abundance as well.[/quote]No. GRACE is defined as devine empowerment and ability to do what hitherto we could not do...And this GRACE is ingrained in the HOLY SPIRIT... Thanks a lot bro/sis. God bless

livingchrist:
Amen and you too

Amen bro

elated177:
You tried to summarize the Romans in your own understanding.

However, I have few questions:

What Law are you talking about?

Could you explain the bolded a little more?

Who is Christ?

What is sin?

Is the Law sin?

"there is a positive relationship between sin and the law", what does this really mean?

Evening once again...Waoh! a lot of questions I must confess. But, I'll try to do justice to them all.

what law are you talking about?= The LAW that was given to Moses on mount Sinai.

could you explain the bolded a little?= The LAW given to Moses was righteous but we before the coming of Christ were not righteous .Hence, could not satisfy the righteous demands of the LAW no matter how hard we might have tried. So, the LAW was given in order to create awareness about sin and to further exposed same, pending the coming of Christ Jesus who came with the power(holy spirit) to help us obey the LAW by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT if only we believe in Him(Christ). Without the HOLY SPIRIT, we as FLESH(sinners) couldn't obey the LAW because we lacked the power to do so.

who is Christ?= check the first mention you mentioned me, I just explained that.

what is sin?= Waoh! so, sin is not just a particular activity or thing. It can't be tight down to a particular activity as it is a way of life and it evolves and changes as we progress in time...But, by way of summary, I'd just say: it is the sum of the entire ways and life of the enemy(Satan). That's it.

Is the LAW sin?= not at all bro. The LAW was HOLY. Like I said, the LAW was to reveal sin. For without the LAW, no one would've known what sin is.


There is a positive relationship between the LAW and SIN. What does this mean?= OK, it means that as the LAW was introduced, SIN also increased and was reveal more clearly to be what it is. But now that we are freed from SIN through our union with Christ Jesus, we are also freed from the LAW and no longer serve in the old ways of the written LAW but in the newness of the SPIRIT... Meaning the whole law is now in our hearts and is all summed in LOVE...That's it brodaman. Thanks and God bless

elated177:
Just one question: who is Jesus Christ?

Good evening brother/sister and thanks for the mention. so you asked who is Jesus Christ?... Jesus Christ was first of all the son of God before God filled Him with His SPIRIT and then He(Jesus Christ) became the word of God. In another sense God the son. Note that Jesus Christ was just a son until the SPIRIT of God came upon Him to give Him that God identity as God the son.....Just to add that the 'word' of God is the same as the 'spirit' of God. Thanks

Kobojunkie:
Again, this has never been a question of whether you deserve it or not.... God's mercy is poured out daily on all of Mankind... regardless of whether they believe in Him or not.
That is not true because, in the same Bible, you are told of many righteous men who chose to keep God's rules and commandments and did not fail God. Do we toss out the baby with the bathwater? You have men righteous men like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, Jeremiah, Job, John the Baptist, Ezekiel, during the time of Elijah, God said He had at least 1000 others to take his place. You have Zechariah and His wife, Joseph, father of Jesus, Simeon...all of them declared worthy and righteous by God.
When Jesus Christ arrived on the scene, there were many righteous men living even then - men who had lived obeying the rules and commandments of God. Jesus Christ even said that He did not come to call the ones who were already righteous - they were perfectly fine as they were in God's eyes - instead, He came to call the sinners instead to God.
I am afraid you are wrong again! Those who are righteous are perfect in the eyes of God. And again, Jesus Christ made this known to you when He declared that He has not come to call the righteous but instead those who are still bound to sin - sinners - to God. And Jesus Christ offers His Contract(promises included a part of the deal) to those willing to accept and obey the terms and conditions stipulated.
You need to toss that filter you have there with you(doctrines of men), so you read the Truth of God as it is truly presented to you. None of what you continue to assert makes sense at all when put next to the facts as stated in the Bible itself. So, how can you not see that this idea you keep trying to throw in can never make sense where God is concerned?
You at least need to learn the teachings of Jesus Christ so you can know His Truth from the lies you have been told.

Good evening my brother/sister. Much as I'm not trying to be a judge here, but I feel it is obligatory on me as much as it is on you too, to teach everyone about the undiluted TRUTH found in the word of God. I have a couple of things to puncture in your argument, but i'll just talk about this...First of, BELIEVING in God, is the only bases in our walk with Him. Like, the sum of our work with God is anchored on Faith(believe) and never else. You also seem to create a difference in your argument between the Jews and Gentiles in our walk with Christ. As far as Christ is concerned however, both the Jews and the Gentiles and every other person is one through our union with Christ Jesus...Lastly, every other person that God had ever used both in the old and new testament, believed in God at some point before He/she was so used...You do not deserve anything from God, what ever you get from Him is by GRACE through your FAITH in Him...Shalom brother/sister!

livingchrist:
Yes, the purpose of the law is to expose sin, the law was our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

The purpose of preaching the law is to lead people to faith in Christ.

When one comes to faith in Christ he is given eternal life instantly and from then on he begins to experience a new life.

That's very true my brother. May God continue to fill you with more understanding in Jesus' name

As we continue to break the word of God and grow, we realise that: The word of God cannot be looked or broken with an ordinary human eyes. I.e before one is saved. The veil of sin covering our eyes has to be removed; before we can see the word of God for what it is and be able to understand it better. Actually, we have God to thank for His GRACE. But for His GRACE, this certainly would not have been possible.

SOME SCRIPTURAL SALIENT POINTS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS WRITE UP.

1) The promise of God is FREE by GRACE.
2) The GIFT/BLESSING of God is the HOLY SPIRIT.
3) There are two(2) basic lifestyles: life in sin(Satan) and life in righteousness (Christ).
4) To live in righteousness (Christ) is to be free from sin and the LAW. To live in sin(Satan) is to be a slave of sin and the LAW.

Before the coming of Christ and the LAW, we were already comfortably living in sin. And sin was part of our nature right from birth. It was only natural for us to sin. Because at best, all that we ever knew was the lifestyle of sin. At least the sinful things that we abhor and avoid today, were once thought and considered a normal way of life by us before the LAW was given.

THE REASON FOR THE LAW.

The LAW was given in order to reveal and expose what sin is. It is important to know that: before the LAW was given, no one knew what sin was. Everyone kept on sinning and living a sinful life IGNORANTLY before the LAW. Everyone saw sin as a norm.

THE IMPLICATION OF LIVING WITHOUT THE LAW.

If the LAW had not been introduced to create awareness about sin, it meant that: people would've continued to sin ignorantly. And its implication would've been that: no one would've known that there is another way of life(life of righteousness) the God's own way of life. People would've been lost in sin, and would've also come to settle with sin as a way of life, thereby making the ministry of Christ a difficult one.

GUILT.

It was the LAW and the awareness of sin that brought about GUILT. Before the LAW, there was no GUILT as people sin and didn't even know they were sinning. But the LAW however, introduced sin which as a result awakened our consciences to the evil of sin and what it meant against the righteous way of our Messiah(Christ). After then, GUILT became a greater part of us.

GOD'S PROMISE.

God's promise, was made to Abraham and to his descendant(Christ). That at the right time He(God) was going to bless the whole human race through him(Abraham). But before the promise(the FREE gift of the SPIRIT) was fulfilled/given, God gave the LAW 430 years before then through Moses in order to reveal and expose what sin is. So that the world would be aware of sin and know that the lifestyle she was living at that time was contrary to the lifestyle of righteousness that He(God) approves of...But could we have switched over from the lifestyle of sin to that of righteousness which He approves of through the LAW(by our strength)?

ANSWER TO THE QUESTION.

The answer to that question is a capital NO. Because that life of sin, had a man(Satan) behind it. And as ordinary human beings, the devil is more powerful than you and I. Reason God sent Christ with a higher power(HOLY SPIRIT) at the right time to come and perfect everything for us. So that through Him, sin will be conquered/defeated in us thereby setting the stage for God's righteousness in us by the power(HOLY SPIRIT)that Christ will give to us if only we believe in Him and everything He has done and commanded us to obey. Note that this power(HOLY SPIRIT) is to help you stay in faith and righteousness as you continue to study God's word everyday in order to grow the HOLY SPIRIT in you.

FINALLY.

Note that: there is a positive relationship between sin and the law on one hand as there is between righteousness and freedom on another. Those who still lead the OLD LIFE of sin, are ruled by the LAW. I.e they are the slaves of sin and are living under the LAW. Where as, those that have come sincerely to Christ, are FREE from sin. I.e sin is no longer controlling their lives and are also FREE from the LAW. Their lives are directed by the HOLY SPIRIT, which is the presence of God in them. The problem with many of us(Christians) is that: we fail to understand that the LAW was just to reveal sin to us and after that, it ends right there. But ironically, we continue to hold on to it as the way of salvation thereby, opposing God's only way, which is by GRACE in Christ Jesus alone. No one can do anything to save himself. Salvation is found in Christ alone by GRACE through our FAITH in Him (Christ) as depicted in Ephesians 2:8. God bless us all...SHALOM!!!

I strongly do believe more than anything else that: There are two (2) lifestyles as far as life in this world is concerned. And they are:

1) The OLD lifestyle, patterned after devil (I.e life in the FLESH).And
2) The NEW lifestyle, patterned after Christ Jesus (I.e life in the SPIRIT).
Note that: The OLD life was before the coming of Christ while the NEW life is after His coming.

Our lives can be patterned ignorantly in the FLESH(in sin) after devil or they can be consciously patterned after Christ Jesus(in righteousness) by GRACE. signifying both the OLD and the NEW lifestyles. By this, I mean that: No one man can live as FLESH and SPIRIT at a time; just as no one man can serve two(2) masters at a time.

However, I write this by the GRACE of God to highlight the differences in these lifestyles. I.e in the OLD and NEW lifestyles.

1) The OLD lifestyle is the ELDER while the NEW lifestyle is the YOUNGER.

2) OLD LIFE: We were born in the FLESH as sinners.
NEW LIFE: We became born again by the SPIRIT as righteous people. See John 3:6.

3) OLD LIFE: We believe only the things we see.
NEW LIFE: We work by FAITH which mostly are the things we do not see. See 2Corinthians 5:7.

4) OLD LIFE: We would rather die than to say the truth.
NEW LIFE: We will rather die for the truth than to lie.

5) OLD LIFE: Our lives are ruled/controlled by Satan through the FLESH.
NEW LIFE: Our lives are ruled/controlled by God through the SPIRIT. See Romans 8:9.

6) OLD LIFE: We cannot please God no matter how hard we try because of sin(FLESH).
NEW LIFE: We please God by GRACE through the SPIRIT. Roman8:8

7) OLD LIFE: When we die, we are received by Satan in HELL.
NEW LIFE: When we die, we are received by our father God in HEAVEN.1Corinthians 15:50.

OLD LIFE: We are PHYSICAL beings here.
NEW LIFE: We are SPIRITUAL beings here.

9) OLD LIFE: We speak in tongues, pay tithe, do works of charity, fast and pray with the believe that we will receive what we ask from God because of them.
NEW LIFE: We believe that we receive what we ask God for, only by GRACE and not because we deserve it. Ephesians 2:8

10) OLD LIFE: We think that it is by our strength and effort that we should receive God's promises.
NEW LIFE: We believe that we receive God's promises only by GRACE through FAITH. Romans 4:16.

11) OLD LIFE: We slap back, insult and condemn when we are wronged.
NEW LIFE: We blessed and let-go instead, when we are wronged.

12) OLD LIFE: We are cursed because we could not obey the law.
NEW LIFE: We are blessed and are able to obey the law by GRACE. Galatians 3:10.

13) OLD LIFE: We live by our human wisdom.
NEW LIFE: We live by God's wisdom which renders the wisdom of this world as foolishness. 1Corinthians 3:19.

14) OLD LIFE: We become possessed by money and the beautiful things of this life.
NEW LIFE: We do not get possessed by them, rather we see them as addition.

15) OLD LIFE: The quality of our lives is not based on the things of the WORLD, because we reckon that we are not of the world.
NEW LIFE: The quality of our lives is based on heavenly things, because we are of the HEAVENS. John17:16.

16) OLD LIFE: We will die and live in agony and pains for ever with Satan.
NEW LIFE: We will die and live forever and ever in peace and joy with God. Psalms 23:6.

17) OLD LIFE: We do not forgive.
NEW LIFE: forgiveness is a part of our life. Mark 11:26.

18) OLD LIFE: We live the lifestyle of the enemy(Satan) through the FLESH.
NEW LIFE: We live the lifestyle of Christ by the power of the SPIRIT.

19) OLD LIFE: We only care about ourselves(selfishness).
NEW LIFE: We deny ourselves by focusing on others(selflessness). Philippians 2:3.

20) OLD LIFE: It's by the WRITTEN LAW(our human strength) that we must live for God which is impossible.
NEW LIFE: It's by the SPIRIT that we should live and please God which is the ONLY WAY.

21) OLD LIFE: We are death to the FLESH and the WORLD with all its systems.
NEW LIFE: We are alive to the SPIRIT in union with Christ Jesus to live and obey Him.

22) OLD LIFE: We can kill and use our bodies to get the gold and silver of this world.
NEW LIFE: We are contented with life whether we have the gold and silver of this world or not. For we know that our lives do not depend on them. Luke 12:15.

23) OLD LIFE: We believe we should not suffer and that it is not normal to be in lack.
NEW LIFE: We know that as long as we are in this world, we will surely suffer. But our suffering is to qualify us for the glory that is to be revealed. ours, is joy even in suffering. Romans 8:17.

24) OLD LIFE: We preach Christ with displayed sophistication, human wisdom,bogus expressions and philosophical skills, there by robbing the message of Christ its effect.
NEW LIFE: We preach Christ crucified, in a very simple and clearer terms, and with words not of human origin, to aid proper understanding in order not to rob the message of Christ its power and effect. 1corinthians 2:4.

25) OLD LIFE: We believe that : the old lifestyle was to bring us to the end of ourselves to see that, we cannot be saved by our own strength without Christ.
NEW LIFE: We believe that: Christ , is the power and the wisdom of God to save those that believe in Him and only by GRACE through FAITH, that we can all be saved.

26) OLD LIFE: The SPIRIT of God descended its power on buildings and made them the temples, synagogues and churches that they were.
NEW LIFE: Our mortal bodies are the temples and churches of God today, because of His SPIRIT in us.1Corinthians 6:19.

27) OLD LIFE: We are God's enemies because of sin(FLESH).
NEW LIFE: We have become his FRIENDS and CHILDREN by the SPIRIT. 2Corinthians 5:18.

28) OLD LIFE: Our PHYSICAL BODIES are decaying.
NEW LIFE: We shall have NEW SPIRITUAL BODIES from heaven and become like the one that came from heaven. 2Corinthians 4:16.

29) OLD LIFE: We are SLAVES here.
NEW LIFE: We are CHILDREN with Christ being our FIRST BORN BROTHER. Romans 8:29.

30) OLD LIFE: The angels are greater than us here.
NEW LIFE: We are greater than the angels plus they shall be our aids. Hebrew 1:14.

31) OLD LIFE: We do not roll out tongues to speak any how.
NEW LIFE: We speak the truth and say only the things that Christ wants us to say. James 1:19.

32) OLD LIFE: We had Satan controlling our lives.
NEW LIFE: Christ is in us and He is the LIFE we live.

Let me drop my PEN here.I live us with John 8:32..."we shall know the truth and only the truth will set us FREE. Only when we KNOW and SEEK the truth, will it be able to SAVE us. The Lord BLESS us all...SHALOM!

budaatum:
With you smiling, it's a great ahead already.

Good morning.

Smiles again! Thanks a lot and do know that God loves and cares soo much about you...Shalom!

budaatum:
You got my point because you did not allow yourself to be blinded by your initial perceptions (beliefs) and instead induced the effort (became as a child) and asked questions to seek to understand.

If you had not done so, buda could have made your flesh sin by becoming your enemy, but by Grace, I now love you.

The Word is powerful, Kingdomtruth. To some is to merely believe. But to some is to do the work to understand the Gospel.

Smiles! Funny you though...Good morning and do have a great ahead.

budaatum:
The op referred to it as "sin(FLESH)", so it is safe to assume more than just the mere physical flesh is meant. But perhaps let us see it as that which motivates us humans to do the evil we do and be sinful.



"Without the GRACE", lol.

Imagine all the effort done by the so many people who laboured through the centuries to put the so called Word of God into your hands so you can read it. Did you deserve it or it is not by Grace that they laboured on your behalf?

And now tell me if it is not your duty, after all the work they have done to put the Word of God in your hands, for you to try with all your heart and might and soul and being to understand it so that by the Grace of God you may be free from sin?

I think I got your point now...But you sounded initially as though you meant that: one could just work out a way through those self induced effort to understand the word and eventual become sin free as a result.

budaatum:
Actually, I would say God wanted us to learn from human activity so God made the Word Flesh and sent God's Begotten Son to live amongst us to teach us the perfect human way to live, but we crucify Christ everyday and refuse to learn.

If we ask and seek and knock with all our hearts and soul and minds and being until we understand the Word, we will set ourselves free from sin.

Hmmm! good evening ma/sir. So I'm curious and really want to know.
1) Is FLESH just a mere word pointing us to human activity or a power behind such human activity? pls I want to know.

2) Do you mean that when we ask, seek, knock, with all our hearts, souls, minds and beings we can understand the word of God and eventually set ourselves free by ourselves without the GRACE of God? pls I need answer...thanks

So, I'm back again to talk about what Jesus Christ did for our salvation I.e the price He paid and how He paid it, for our deliverance and salvation today. I realised that: most of us as Christians are ignorant of the truth regarding our salvation. The truth is that: without the knowledge of what was done and how it was done for us to be freed from the operation and tyranny of sin(FLESH) in our lives, we won't be able to appreciate to a reasonable degree; the sacrifice as it were and see the depth of the PRICE exactly for what it is.

I know for sure however, that: only when we know the truth; shall we be saved by it. See John 8:32. But, how can we be saved by the truth; when we don't even know it.
Because I've come to understand that: a lot of us are Christians only on paper but not in practise. We seem to think that: to be a Christian is just a title rather than a lifestyle. But, I put it to us that: it is by far more than that, instead, it is a deliberate work with the Lord aimed at becoming conformed to the image and likeness of Christ Jesus. See Romans 8:29.

THE REASON FOR HIS COMING.

God had no reason for sending Christ Jesus into the world, but for you and me. It was obvious prior to His coming that we were all set for doom. All of us. But, God in His LOVE and MERCY, prepared a body for Him in the form of HUMAN and sent Him for just only one purpose. And that one purpose, was for Him to DIE in order to set us free from the power of sin(FLESH) and to give us victory over DEATH See 1 Corinthians 15:56. You can do well to revert to my previous thread on my profile and read about the FLESH.

WHAT WAS OFFERED FOR OUR SALVATION AND DELIVERANCE.

God knew that: no human activity(ies) would suffice to be able to set us free from sin(FLESH). He knew that: Just as a married woman is bound to the LAW of marriage to be with her husband together forever until death separate them; in the same way, we were all bound to sin(FLESH) forever and ever, to live in sin and its tyranny until we all DIE. But, thank God, who gave us this VICTORY through the sacrife of the BODY of Christ Jesus, by which we are saved. See the same 1 Corinthians 15:56. YES, you saw it well. It was by the offering of the PHYSICAL BODY of Christ Jesus that we are all freed and delivered today from sin.

HOW IT ALL HAPPENED.

Christ Jesus was without sin. But, for our sake, God made Him to become sin for us to share our sinful nature with us for the purpose of DEATH in order that we might become the righteousness of God by our union with Him. See 2Corinthians 5:21.
In dealing with sin(FLESH) however, Jesus Christ at the garden of 'GETHSEMANE', drank from the cup of suffering which was a symbol of our FLESH, after this, He declared that: Sorrow and anguish came over Him. Then, He prayed and declared that: not His will but the will of God be done. Note at this point,that: He had taken the FLESH(our sinful nature) in Him. And because of that, the holy spirit left Him, because the spirit and the flesh do not live together. where the SPIRIT is present, the FLESH disappears and vice versa. Just as light and darkness do not live together. Reason He declared that sorrow and anguish came over Him. Having taken this FLESH( our sinful nature) in His PHYSICAL BODY, with all its inherent suffering, beating, mockery and embarrassment; He endured all in order to take it to the cross and nail it there on the cross. He did this for two main reasons:
1) To destroy sin(FLESH) in our mortal bodies
2) To forgive all our individual sins with their various curses that were heaped on us because of disobedience.
All these, He achieved for our sake through the sacrifice of His body on the cross for us. Need I say that: Christ Jesus had no business dieing on the cross, if not for our sins so that through GRACE we might become the righteousness of God.

As He died on the CROSS, everything in Him died including the our FLESH(sinful nature) that He carried in Him to the CROSS. So that: as we believe in Him and accept Him into our lives, we automatically share in His death, so that we no longer have to die to our respective FLESH(ES), but that, through Him, we believe we have become death and freed to our sinful natures respectively just as He died and was freed from His. Because only death, will set us free from the FLESH. See Romans 7:6. But here, we see that: if we had died to our FLESH as individuals; it would've been destruction for ever and ever for us in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. See 1Corinthians 15:50. but, God in His mercy, achieved this through His son; so that while we were still sinners, He died the death that we ought to die, in order to set us free to be able to live for God and become His righteousness through our union with Christ.

Furthermore, it is instructive to know that: as important as His death was, our salvation was still not completed. Until the moment He died, was buried and resurrected. After His resurrection, He was then raised to GLORY and was given the power by God His Father to become the author of salvation. So that, only HE has the power to save all those that BELIEVE in Him.See John 3:16.

OUR HOPE AS CHRISTIANS.

Now as Christians, we have this one HOPE which is very fundamental and sure that: just as He died, was buried and raised to life, we too who BELIEVE in Him would be raised to life and live for ever and ever with Him at His second appearing. See1 Corinthians 15:22-23.

Finally, brothers and sister, this is our HOPE in Christ Jesus. Without Him, you can't live the way God wants you to live. For it is after you have confessed that :"He is LORD and you BELIEVE in your heart that He died and was raised by God" that, He would come into your LIFE by the power of the same spirit that resurrected Him from death and He would give you the power called GRACE to live in righteous the way God wants you to live. Else, there's no other way. The FLESH has to go. Else, trying to please God and experiencing His power in your Life would be as impossible as you telling a man to give birth to a baby. It is actually that impossible. The very reason why Christ told His disciples that: with man it is impossible, but nothing is impossible with God. Only in Christ Jesus can we be saved, and only in Him do we have the power( GRACE) to sustain our salvation. Because, we are FLESH but the LAW is SPIRIT.So, only by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT found in Christ Jesus can we be saved. Thanks and God bless us all...Shalom!

Kunmius:
Receiving the Holyspirit is not of works. You receive the Holyspirit when you believe that Christ died for your sins and resurrected. Salvation is a free gift of God. When you're saved, Holyspirit comes and dwells inside of you and teaches the ways of God. You can't be holy without the Holy-spirit.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

There is nowhere in the bible we are asked to keep commandment before we receive the Holyspirit. However, you're not of God if you do not have the Holyspirit.

The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him. Ephesians 1:14

and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us. 1 Corinthians 1:22

In the book of Acts, during the pentecost, the disciples of Jesus were gathered together and the Holyspirit came upon them. It wasn't because they obeyed the commandments. Also, the church of Corinth was full of immoral and greedy believers but still the Holyspirit manifested through them.

Peter preached to Cornelius (a Gentile) and while Peter was preaching, the Holyspirit fell on him and the other gentiles around him. Cornelius wasn't even baptized nor obeyed any commandment and the Holyspirit still fell on him.

So brethen, it is not by doing. It is by believing. Pay close attention, God is working through you through the Holyspirit

May God bless you for this piece my brother. O P please this is all you need to have the gift of the spirit...You just believe in the message you heard about Him CHRIST JESUS. When you do, you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him(Jesus) from death. Then, the Spirit will surely come upon you at this point though undeveloped. Note that: The Spirit is undeveloped at this point; just like a baby with all the body parts intact, but yet to be matured...It now behoves on you, to develop it through the study of God's word and obedience to same. Thereafter, the spirit will guide you and teach you all that you need to know about God. Truely, the HOLY SPIRIT is the best teacher...Salvation is FREE...You can't give or do anything first to be saved other than just to BELIEVE...The Lord bless my brother

Kobojunkie:
I am sorry, what?
What you have stated above does not even agree with the teachings of Jesus Christ, the TRUTH of God, that you speak of. How do you go about reconciling the fact that what your claim you believe does not line up with the Truth of God, Jesus Christ Himself?
As you were told in John Chapter 3 vs 16-21, Grace(eternal life) comes through the obedience of one of Jesus Christ's commandments which is that if you believe in Him(believe He is from God, are baptized, and eat of His body and drink of His blood), you will be redeemed from Death, and instead gifted with Eternal life(Grace) by Him. This is one of the few commandments that come with a blessing attached to it.

So why do you believe, against what you read there, that grace does not come through your accepting and obeying a commandment, something that is made clear to you right there in John 3 vs 16-21?

The teachings of Jesus Christ is the Truth of Jesus Christ - He is the Law and His teachings are the very definitions of that which is Sin for those who are in His flock - and according to His teaching it is indeed by accepting and obeying His commandments that you can receive His Spirit. So, again, why do you deny what is written right there in the book for you to obey?

Jesus Christ obeyed His Father's commandments and calls you to do the very same in order that He and the Father may abide in you. Are you saying that Jesus Christ lied?

Good evening bro. I think you re really mixing up things here. you wrote about GRACE(eternal life) coming through obedience to Christ commandments and teachings. And then again, you talk about being gifted with eternal life which is also GRACE in another sense according to you. If that's your base point, then I would beg to differ with you. Not for the purpose of competing with you for whatever reason, but to set a perspective about the TRUTH that you and I believe in.

First off, no one gifts you eternal life as your comment tries to suggest. But it is true that we've been given the gift of GRACE through our union with Christ Jesus to help us work out for our eternal life. Reason Paul the apostle advised us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. And by this GRACE, it means we now have the power to live the way God wants us to live in righteousness.

Secondly, GRACE however, does not equate eternal life. while it is true and necessary that we obey Christ teachings and commandments for eternal life, we only need to have Faith and believe after hearing the message of Christ Jesus, before we will receive GRACE through His spirit that will now come upon us as people who believe. we receive this GRACE not because we've done anything or observed any rules and regulations or commandments,but just because we believe in Him(Christ Jesus).

Telling a Christian to obey God's teachings and commandments without His GRACE is like telling a man to conceive and give birth to a baby. It is that impossible my brother. Because, as flesh and blood; we do not have the power to satisfy the righteous demands of God's LAW because of the weakness of our FLESH. Reason Christ told His disciples that: It is not possible with human beings, but with God everything is possible.

So my brother, putting it simply and straightforward, this is how it goes: we first hear the message, then FAITH will be birthed because of the message. Then, we confess Him(Christ) as our Lord and believe that he died and God raised Him from death. then, we will be saved. Then the Spirit will come upon us though undeveloped. And as the Spirit comes, it comes with GRACE to help us to obey Christ's teachings and commandments aimed at making us to conform to his image and likeness. It is only and only if we continue to obey those teachings and commandments and stay soo conformed to his image and likeness that we can be sure of ETERNAL LIFE bro. Else, I'm afraid there's no other way. So, take note that: GRACE does not equate eternal life; but that, GRACE gives us the power to obey God's words and live righteously which in turn, guarantees us ETERNAL LIFE. And lastly, we do not obey God's commandments and teachings to receive GRACE, but we receive GRACE first to help us obey God's teachings and commandments. Hope that's clear enough...Thanks and remain bless brodaman

Kobojunkie:
In John 1, you find where John tells you that Jesus Chris the Grace and Truth of God

The grace we have through Jesus Christ refers to the salvation we receive through the obedience of His one commandment that if we believe in Him, we are saved from the Condemnation of Sin(Death) and gifted instead with eternal life(grace upon grace).

Now, according to the teachings above, Salvation is from the condemnation of sin(Death) and not from sin itself. Also, Salvation does not guarantee eternity in Heaven. If you look closely, there is no promise of Heaven included in the above, only a promise of eternal life and eternal life can be spent in either of Heaven or Hell.

Next is Jesus Christ's teaching on how to overcome sin, by transitioning from being a slave to sin, and becoming a Son of God.

Then in John 15, Jesus Christ also declares that it is in those who abide(accept(trust) and obey His teachings) that He and His Father will abide in.


Let me know if I missed anything.

Good morning bro.First off, I'd like to address the very first point you've raised here. Also note that: we're all partners in Christ Jesus. And I believe our one desire is to learn from each other and to tell ourselves the truth rather than a mere desire to argue. That being said.

you talked about Jesus Christ according to John 1 being the GRACE and TRUTH Oof God, which is true. I also remember that: The essence of these exchanges, is on GRACE being misconstrued as a license to indulge sin...Which I defer from, by saying that GRACE correctly defined, is the ability and empowerment to do what hitherto we could not do;because we now have power called GRACE to be able to do it though, we couldn't do it before for lack of the said GRACE. I also remember saying that: It's because of this GRACE that we as Christians should not indulge sin as oppose to Mr Myer's narrative( the first guy I quoted) who believes that Christians indulge sin because they believe that GRACE covers them even though they sin; which I strongly refuted and opposed to be untrue.

However, referring to John 1 that you quoted, John was only saying that "Grace and Truth"came through Jesus Christ only by the power of the holy spirit which also embodies GRACE. I.e as the holy spirit comes upon you, it comes with a power called GRACE to help you do those things you could not do before( to help you live righteously the same way you could not live before because of sin). Just as it also comes with truth, to teach you about Christ and to reveal spiritual truth to those that have it. Reason the HOLY SPIRIT is called the spirit of TRUTH and also of GRACE.

Finally, I do not believe that GRACE comes through our obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ as I understand from your comment. But I do believe however, that firstly: The teachings of Jesus Christ help us with Faith that causes us to receive salvation after we professed Him by Faith. Having so professed Him and are saved;then, His Spirit (which is the HOLY SPIRIT) comes with GRACE to help us live in righteousness as God wants us to live. Thanks and God bless you brodaman...Shalom!

Kobojunkie:
You are wrong. Jesus Christ, the one who is full of grace that you speak of, is the New Covenant that God promised His people. And Grace refers to the Teachings/commandments of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ, for it is through your acceptance(trust) and obedience of His grace(teachings/commandments) that Jesus Christ instructs that you will become Sons of God.

Those of you who refuse to accept and His teachings can never become Sons of God, or Jesus Christ is declared a Liar and God the Father of Lies.

pls kindly refer me to the biblical scripture that you've just quoted about Grace being the teachings and commandment of God. Just want to be sure it was not quoted out of context... Tanx

Myer:
You have to wonder what they're teaching cos even the graduates Covenant is churning out are part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Winners preaches prosperity without preaching much of righteousness.
When you exalt prosperity over virtues of righteousness, you can be sure that your followers will do anything to gain that prosperity even committing sins that unbelievers won't.

The irony with Christianity is that a unbeliever believes he is committing sin when we steals but a Grace and Prosperity preaches have taught their followers that even if they steal, it is not a sin because Christ has paid for all their sins.

At the end of the day, Christians who should be part of the solution have become more of the problem.

Interestingly you can't blame this pastors because there are Bible verses that support this claim, mostly John and Paul's epistles.

If only Christianity had continued the way the missionaries introduced it to Nigeria, clearly, the Nigeria we have today would be the most prosperous nation in the would but unfortunately the reverse is the case.

Both Christians and Muslims are robbing the Nations and dry and the masses are to suffer for it. Although directly or indirectly the elites are also suffering from this insecure and undder-developrd country they've created.

Good evening bro. I thought I should correction a wrong knowledge here about GRACE...GRRACE correctly defined: is a devine empowerment and ability to do the right thing and live the way God wants us to live(righteousness). By this definition, it becomes clear that Grace actually is the very reason why a Christian should not sin as oppose to what your comment implies... Whoever indulges sin on account of GRACE, is wrong and was informed by wrong knowledge. Remain bless my brother and may God help us all.

Thanks a lot for this...God bless you