₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi:
Jesus described hell and whenever he did he was never dismissive or flippant about the idea of hell. He made clear statements on the severity of the final destination of sinners. He used graphic metaphors and frightening instructions to describe what hell is and and why we must avoid it. It will be so horrific and intolerable that Christ would rather have you pluck your own eyes from its socket to experiencing hell after the transient and natural life.

Very true but at the same time Christ never taught that sinners will be subjected to a never ending torture as I have been told since I was small.

Image123:
Okay, it is unjust and senseless to punish man, but you didn't make up your mind on whether it's unjust and senseless to punish devil(s) eternally. Your conclusion/opinion is an emotional and moral one, not one based on logic or study or intellect. Thank you.

You just said what I never said. To repeat myself. I said a just reward is that man is punished according to the level of iniquity he comitted.
secondly even bible through many scriptures showed that man will be punished but not tortured forever.the wages of sin is death that is very clear for all to see. Am still wondering how the endless torture doctrine found its way into Christianity. I personally think it is an attempt to keep people in check by e elite but unfortunately the idea have been counterproductive in that people develop thick skin and some totally reject the gospel. Anyway only study shall people be completely free.
My conclusion is not based on logic or interllevt or study? Then what else do you call logic? Is it not logical that a timed offence committed by man should be punished by a timed punishment?

frosbel:
when you have 10 minutes , try this as well - http://www.heraldmag.org/2011/11mj_4.htm

After reading this I can only say that I am wondering why I never know these things even after reading those verses of the scripture. Religion is a powerful blinding force.

frosbel:
Brother read the bible, God is not going to torment anyone forever, the wages of sin is death, the soul that sins it shall die, this day I put before you life and death so choose life, these are all clichés from the bible and reiterates again and again that the punishment for persistent sin is everlasting death.

However, many people especially Christians ( so called ) and Jews will be shocked at the end time judgement and how many millions who they thought will be condemned will be saved instead.

One thing I know is this, God looks at the heart and all hearts where righteousness, equity and justice reign, will see life and see it eternally.

Do not be deceived and misled by the churches of men and their numerous idolatries, chief of which is the worship of dead pagan doctrines.

Am still reading the site you pasted.Until am done with the whole teaching I can't conclude but so far it clear to me that there are many evidence that the unjust will be totally cut out of existence in the lake of fire which the bible called the second death.

Image123:
I refer to conscious. Would conscious punishment be just?

It is unjust and even senseless. Punishing people in torment for eternity to achieve what?
Justice demand that they are tortured according their sin and finally brought into a non existent state.

Image123:
You're saying that you are inconclusive on the justice of punishing devil(s) forever. IF God punishes man forever, IF, can it be just, or you have a conclusion on that?

Of course God will punish the sinner forever. I have never denied that.what I am yet to conclude on is the nature of the punishment. Is it an eternal conscious punishment or a total annihilation whereby the sinner is totally out of existence.

if you read the site the author has not spoken anything against the scriptures. He only interpreted the scriptures different from the traditional interpretations. He did not say that there is no hell or punishment for the unjust, he tried to prove using many scriptures that hell fire which the bible called the second death actually means the total annihilation of the ungodly.
God knows the right punishment for the angel who stayed in the presence of his glory and yet decided to go against him. we were only given a tip of the iceberg on what transpired between God and Satan.Therefore, i cant say if punishing Satan forever is just or not.

Image123:
Okay, you are the only one that answered. i'm guessing that the rest are shy. So, do you think God is unjust to send devil(s) to hell forever?
P.S I'd advice you stick with what the Bible says, and not whatever sense some sites say.

just to tell you what the world expect from the church. the world wants a holy church living up to what it preaches and not the lies we hear and see these days.so get use to what you see in the front page. who cares if a Muslim cleric divorce his wife because it is not a big news but if a pastor divorce his wife,you know that it will make a big news because pastors should not do that.

krall:
Whenever a "religious" topic makes frontpage, it is either making mockery Christianity or talking of the bad thing one pastor did or the other.

Why??

How some guys just believe that they dropped from nowhere is amazing.

asalimpo:
*I wud wish the ground wud open up and swallow me. If i were faith *

How right the bible is.
A fool is known by his words.

Besides, what's up with this marraige thing,like we're gonna b down here forever *dodging bombs and tryna make it in a decayg and sinkg world*

peopl marry and their spouse die - they remarry.
Some dont marry and live productive lives.
Some marry and it's so so.
Others marry and its hell all d way
others marry and its bliss.
Nothng d biggie. Others adopt childdren.

You are right bro.

Why was ROSSIKE invested? Answer the question correctly and get a million reward.

Anybody that closes his or her eyes can see anything.
I have learnt to disregard those stories.

honourhim:
I ve read further on the site and the man made a lot of sense. He was just explaining what is written in the bible rather than the series of denial and blame game we ve seen here.

He hasn't blamed any translation so far, He hasn't said that man has no soul rather he explained what(in his believe) Jesus meant by "destroying both the body and the soul".

He hasn't said anybody smuggled anything into the bible. He is not even running helter skelter over the scriptures digging up quotations anyhow(whether it fits in or not) just to support his no-hell/eternal torment teaching.

He hasn't abused any pastor or church leaders for whatever reason.

I think this is the first time I'm seeing a sincere explanation free of manipulations, denials and abuses on this issue.

Though I do not agree totally with him, yet his approach has soft pedal me. By the grace of God I'm not going to hell fire. If the people going there are totally annhilliated, good for them and I prefer they are. If they are not then that's for them too.

The most important thing is to choose life.

Frosbel you are completely right.i remember one time that my mum asked my faithful tithe paying brother why he has refused to send her money for close to a year. I just remembered that he was busy giving away money to the pulpit thieves.

We are not Muslims we are Christians. What destinquish us from the Muslims is that we tolerate and welcome all the skeptics, the athiest, and the foolish as you may call them.
Brothers look at the bigger picture.even Christ was mocked yet he never faught back.

Image123:
Sincere questions to frosb, lastmessenger, CAPTIVATOR, aio and others who are skeptical about hell fire. Do you believe that God will send devil(s) to hell, do you believe it will be forever?

It is possible the devil may suffer forever( for the man who deceived the whole world) but for humans who lived a few years and committed timed offence I can't say with certainty that he will be punished forever. My point is based on the sense made by the authors of the site provided by frosbel.
I believe there is always a just recompense of reward for the wrong committed by humans. The idea if total anihilation of the ungodly in hell is very much possible but like I said earlier I have not settled on this.

honourhim:
I ve read a little of it but i still dont agree totally with him. Yet his approach is better than the game of deceit being played by folks here in their own defence. At least i ve not seen the man say that the hell that Jesus was talking about is just the grave like the agents of deceit here do. I ve not see him blame King James translation as these guys do here. This makes some sense than the basket of deceit being dropped here and there in the name of no-hell preaching.So far these are my observations. I ll still read more when i have time and make my points where i feel like.

from your statement above then I can conclude that we are in the same page. I have never denied hell or it's existence.i am only saying that what the guy is writing in that page makes a whole lot of sense.

uwc

PastorAIO:
Thanks

http://www.hellhadesafterlife.com/hell

PastorAIO:
Please, I'd like to read these sites. Could you post the link here?

you guys are right. only God knows his plans and ultimate truth but human will remain humans and must ask questions and seek knowledge in any area that seems dark to him.May the great God be praised. AMEN.

PastorAIO:
Neither will believing in Hell make it to be if it is not what is on ground.

Please try and read them first before concluding that i am working with sentiments. The author never brought his thoughts and arguments outside the bible. The only thing he did is that he interpreted scriptures outside the traditional beliefs. Well like i said i am still reading and seeking knowledge and by his grace i will settled on this.

honourhim:
Based on what you read from those biased site given to you. . it will only satisfy your emotions but what will be remains.

PastorAIO:
Nope, that's not what I said. I said total annihilation would be a better solution than eternal torture. The sinner did not beg God to create him. So why after creating him must he now suffer eternally? God bears all the responsibility here. If God can't achieve his purpose with man then he should just return man back to the nonexistence where he brought man from.

Now i understand.i think many scriptures suggest that there will be total annihilation of the ungodly. i have not settled on this anyway.

@ pastorAio if understand you clearly your post suggest that you believe in total anihilation of the ungodly.

Weah96:
Did the most intelligent people believe that this God wrote a book through human beings?

Believing in God is one thing. Believing that the God wrote a book through white people is quite another.

I am laughing. Wether they believed in God of the Christians or Muslims or whatever God. My happiness is that they believed and did not deny that there is a superior being.
They understood that things don't just happen. A force is always responsible for movement.

Weah96:
God is imaginary. You're choosing to believe the opinions of the anonymous humans who compiled your holy book.

Even the most intelligent people in the history had a belief in God. Why are you denying yourself. How can anything just drop from nowhere.

frosbel:
You touched God / wow !!!

what did it feel like ?

Frosbel I red your replies to my many questions and I have also red some of the thoughts and ideas in the link that you posted on hell and eternal damnation. Well the authors has some serious points but my traditional belief is still holding me captive. Am still trying to put all the scriptures that I know so that I can reconcile it with what he taught.
But one important point he made is that the concept of eternal torment has produce what I will call false love for God ie men fearing God and doing all that he said even when their heart is far from God just to avoid being punished in that horrible bottomless pit forever.
Through knowledge my people shall be delivered. Am still searching and I will know the real truth.

Hiswordxray:
If you are a Christian then you should trust God.
Trusting God involve trusting his wisdom and judgement.
Do you think you know how to love than the God who is love himself. It is very clear in the bible that there is eternal damnation.
Let just trust God.

My human wisdom still see it as horrible.

A nation of hypocrites.

Yes i am very much aware of that but the picture of some guys suffering for eternity in a bottomless pit is horrible. I sincerely wish and hope that hell is not what we think it is.

Hiswordxray:
The issue is that hell is not for the children of God so why should we have a problem with hell when it is not for us.

I am worried because even though God has made a way of escape but the chilling truth is that people will definitely go there and even God knows about that. How is wish there is no sin to commit and how i wish the earth was created to be like heaven so that we will not have to struugle against sin and iniquity.in all things i trust in the mercy of the most high and i do hope and wish that somehow those who died without Christ will be given a second chance just like christ preach to the spirits in the prison and presented the gospel to them. I sincerely do hate the idea of eternal damnation.

honourhim:
You know why i dont have problem with the eternal damnation concept? Because God made a way out. I dont worry myself with any problem that has solution. Once there is a solution, its no more a problem to worry about.

Here the solution is very very simple- grace/mercy of God. Just rely on it and you are free. Even the disciples of Jesus at a point felt it was impossible to make heaven but Jesus gave them a simple answer- "with men this is impossible but with God all things are possible". Matthew 19:26.

Why Africa is backwards.

Atheist dont fail to amaze me with their ability to rationalize things. i just de laugh meanwhile it seems that i am failing in my aim to get some reasonable answers from Dear Frosbel.
Frosbel how can you claim to know all that you know and yet refuse to answer me. This is totally unfair and somehow you are beginning to behave like the people you condemn by knowing the truth and hiding it.

plaetton:
Everyone goes through a transition when they begin to question their beliefs. It is quite normal to have a mental tug of war between the rational and emotional, fear based sectors of a person's mind.
And yes, it also normal, even positive, to test one's new convictions in the public sphere.