@ shinalight

Thank you, I appreciate your effort but you are very right when you said that I am speaking out of conviction. These few exchanges made me delve deeper into this and strengthened my conviction.

What you said about ageing and postponing death by good behavior is right, I never doubted that, However, in all honesty that is not what the added verse is saying. Take it to any English professor, the added verse state that:

(1) Disintegration is only caused by sin of the inhabitants of the globe
(2) Parts of the material world can be raised far above the boundary of disintegration to where it can always remain fresh.

You and I know that these two statements are wrong. In your case you refused to see it as it was written, rather you added "eventually," "premature" and "for a while" to it.
If the writer had added these phrases then it would have been correct, but he didn't. These phrases were in existence when the verses were written, and I'm sure the writer knows them too well. Yet he refused to add them, thereby making the added verse very ambiguous. Abd-ru-shin is never shy of words while describing things, sometimes he says the same thing many times in different words so that the reader will understand. If that was written by him and as description of a temporary saving of the world, in regards to the saving of the planet he would added, "for a while." The verse that Anna7 quoted from the lecture Christmas!, He clearly said that the saving was for a while.

In the example you gave which I agree with, you said, "Meanwhile, his peers who comply with the laws of healthy living can live to a ripe old age while 'ageing gracefully in good health' before they eventually have to bow out in death at the right time destined for them."


You didn't say, "Meanwhile, his peers who comply with the laws of healthy living will always remain alive, avoiding old age which will otherwise lead to death."

Observe the two sentences and see the difference.

Best wishes to you too!

In this issue I'm sure and hope that one day you will get it right. I'm extremely sure about this, perhaps woman's intuition.

shinealight:

Thanks! I shall definitely consider your advice to take up an English class soonest. Meanwhile I suggest you look deeper in the Message to acquaint yourself of the various things (which are not willed by the Light) that can lead to "over-ripeness".
As a pointer, I will give you the following passages to look up:
1.) Vol 2, Lecture 52
"......Since with this ability to make a free decision the spirit-germs do not always choose the way upwards to the Light, a certain increase in the density of the World of Matter not willed by the Light takes place, causing it to become heavier and forcing it down onto a course that leads to over-ripeness and to the funnel which acts like a cleansing filter upon everything, and in which disintegration simultaneously occurs.
2.) Vol. 2, lecture 67
".....The animal bodies of the most highly developed race of that time, into which no spirit seed-grains incarnated, came to a standstill in their development, however, because the substantiate element within them had already attained to the highest it could and they lacked the power of the spirit to advance further. And with the standstill over-ripeness quickly set in, to be followed by retrogression and disintegration!
3.)Vol 3, Lecture 46
".....Either the human spirit must swing itself upwards to knowledge or remain stationary, which latter is equivalent to the setting in of decay, due to uselessness consequent upon a stationary human spirit becoming over-ripe through inactivity; a human spirit which no longer knows how to apply the Power of the Light accumulating within it in the right way. Thus that which can and would help it becomes its ruin, as is the case with all energy that is wrongly applied!
From the above, we can see that there are "sins" such as wrong decisions by the human spirits which increase the density of the celestial globe, standstill in development contrary to the Law of Motion as well as stationary human spirits who cannot apply the Power of the Light in the right way. All these precipitate over-ripeness which leads to disintegration.
WHEN A STATE OF OVER-RIPENESS (WHICH LEADS TO DISINTEGRATION) IS PRECIPITATED BY AN EVENT OR ACTION NOT WILLED BY THE LIGHT OR WHICH CONTRAVENES THE LAWS OF CREATION, THEN THAT ENSUING DISINTEGRATION IS A PREMATURE ONE.
THIS GOES WITHOUT SAYING AND THE AUTHOR NEED NOT INSERT THE WORD 'PREMATURE' IN THE TEXT!
Best wishes.

I don't know what you wish to achieve by the above. It has already been explained by justcool that over-ripeness is a stage in the evolution of matter, The stage that is followed by disintegration. He also stated that over-ripeness can be prematurely brought about due to sins, which will also bring about premature disintegration.

Sin is not the only thing that brings about over-ripeness!! Even your quote number 2 ( Vol. 2, lecture 67) proves this point. Read you post again and ask your self what sins did the primeval men committed. None, they just reached a stage their substantiate soul could not take them any further and hence became standstill which was immediately followed by over-ripeness!

I will give you a quote from the Grail message. Quoting from (Vol. 2, Lecture 48)

"Creation proper merely consists of Paradise, the Spiritual Kingdom of today. Everything else is only developed, i.e., no longer really created! And what has been developed must be designated as the World! The World is transient. It develops from the emanations of Creation, imitating the latter in reflections, being driven and sustained by spiritual emanations. It comes to maturity and then disintegrates again through over-ripeness. The spiritual, however, does not age, but remains forever young or, in other words, eternally the same!"

Look at the sentence I bolded above!!!! Here he is not talking about sin; he is talking how the world(Material creation) is subject to mature and disintegrate through over-ripeness, as opposed to Paradise which is eternal. Justcool likened over-ripeness to old age, which is always followed by death(disintegration). Matter must grow old mature and go through disintegration though over-ripeness irrespective of the condition of its inhabitants.

I can give up to 20 quotes from different lectures of the Grail message where it is maintained that matter must grow old and die. Only once, in the added verse did it say that matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration. The more I read about this issue, the more I'm convinced. That added verse is definitely not in accord with the rest of the message. If is true that matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration, then why does the Grail message keep urging us to mature and leave this world of matter that is already at the beginning stage of over-ripeness? Why don't we strive to keep this earth always fresh and healthy, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration so that we can settle here?

The Grail message said that it is the same law that guides both gigantic and small cycles. Hence we should look around us, our physical bodies, or a cornfield. If matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration therefore our physical bodies can to it too. So if we behave rightly we may never die, our physical bodies will remain fresh, avoiding old age and death. So Jehovah witnesses are right then, we can live forever in an earthly Paradise. I don't know then why we are urged to leave here, since we can keep prolonging it disintegration.

Please think independently for once, quit writing the same old thing they teach. The added verse did not say "for a while longer,"
it said ".....It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration". This does not suggest a temporal extension of existence.

To further buttress this point and show that the passage does not suggest a temporal extension, I will quote more from the passage,

"Such parts quite naturally, i.e., by the Will of the Light, wing their way high above the boundary where disintegration sets in."

So any part of the material world that keeps swinging way high above the boundary where disintegration sets in will remain disintegrated. But the question a serious seeker should ask himself or herself is this, "Can matter go that high towards the light?" Only the spiritual worlds lie above the boundary of disintegration!! If matter goes that high, wouldn't the nearness to the light consume or disintegrate it?

Again why don't we strive to keep the earth above that region, rather than striving out of the world of matter to Paradise?

shinealight:

I'm afraid, the issues raised above are way over my head. As an ordinary human spirit from the lowest ramifications of the Spiritual Realm, I would hesitate to start speculating on when or how the Anchorage of a Primordial Spiritual Being departed or the scope of responsibility of such beings. Personally, I would prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters!

Wow that’s typical! Shinalight please help me out here. Why do you guys always do this. You can talk all day about the factions, the movement, and its leaders but when questioned about the contents of the message, you shy away. I alluded to this in my first post to you. And this is typical of not just you, but some others as well.
You show humility when these persons are mentioned but you don’t show as much humility towards Abd –ru-shin. Even as a seeker, I have already been told that he made a mistake in his former earth life, remember what he did to the guy that captured Nahome and her mom. Justcool is the only cross bearer who, I’ve come across that doesn’t hold the view that the prince made a mistake. You guys believe that the Prince can make a mistake as grievous as that, you don’t even hesitate to tell seekers this, yet hold the view that Irmgard and her mother cannot make a mistake! You guys place the two women above the author of the message who you earlier in this thread called perfection personified The same way a catholic will laugh at joke about Jesus but will frown when you joke about Mary.
Also, by saying that the issue I raised is above your head, you call Abd-ru-shin a bad teacher by implication. What I stated were written by Abd-ru-shin in the Grail message that he wrote for human spirits, or spirits of the lowest ramification. So by saying that it is above your head, you imply that he gave human spirits knowledge that is over their head or comprehension.
I found it disappointing that a crossbreaer will refer to any knowledge mediated in the Grail message as over his head. So then you have not accepted the entire message. Yet the message said you must take all or nothing. Therefore you have taken nothing! It is not humility when one shies away from these facts, but rather cowardice. Let me re-state them again, the Grail message said that:

(1) “Maria does not enter into all this at all, nor does Irmingard. Coming from above, They are, it is true, anchored into the Creations, but not firmly connected with them. Therein lies a great difference again.”
(2) “Despite the anchorages They are not tied to them, but completely free from them and their currents.”
(3) “The currents of Creation can approach Them through these anchorages, so that they become clearly recognisable, but they can never penetrate into Them, because the necessary connection for this is lacking.”
(4) “Maria and Irmingard are active, but without the possibility of anything reacting upon Them! They work in a helping and uplifting way, strengthening, purifying, healing or also repelling, but in Their Radiations They do not connect Themselves with the Creation. Heed this well!”
(5) “The womanhood of Creation as such has only to do with Irmingard. And She descended to the Grail Castle into Primordial Creation, out of the Divine Plane, and there merely stepped into a Primordial Spiritual vessel which had already been prepared for Her.”

From the above quataations from the Grail message we summarize, Maria and Irmiingard are not part of creation. They work in creation through vessels prepared for them. Yet they are not tied or firmly connected to these vessels! They are active without the possibility of anything reaction upon then because their connection with creation is lacking! The womanhood of creation has only to do with Irmingard, therefore men has nothing to do with her.
Putting all these together, we can see that their vessels can act without them because they are not firmly connected. The fact that Irmgard lead a movement that comprised men and women already shows that she was not at that time connected with Irmingard who has only to do with womanhood, otherwise she would not have been able to lead men.
It appears that Abd-ru-shin may have know that these women will later be worshiped by men, therefore he wrote the above which clarifies everything. The most touching part is that in regards to this issue he used the phrase, “HEED THIS WELL!” He wished for us to understand this. And I don’t think these facts are too high for any human being to understand. So for you to say that ist above your head is very surprising.
Please show me one verse in the Grail message where Abd-ru-shin said that Maria and Irmingard above creation, who carried unsubstantiated cores ever incarnated on earth. To the best of my knowledge, in creation they only worked with vessels(human beings), which they are not firmly connected to!
To the best of my knowledge, only two people (Jesus and Imanuel) carried unsubstantate cores on earth, like Justcool courageously explained.

shinealight:

For me, the following words in the Message suffice to clear all doubts:
".....Therefore in the last, most sacred fulfilment Imanuel now works in Creation simultaneously in Parsifal, Maria and Irmingard!"

Yes, but he also explained how they worked in creation. He explained that they are above creation but only work through vessels already prepared for them which they are not firmly connected to. What you quoted above is exactly what justcool said/ explained when he said that during the time of the most sacred fulfillments on earth, the vessels on earth were able to link up with Maria and Irmingard above creation.
The question is: Did this period of sacred fulfillment extend all through their stay on earth or did it end by the departure of Ab-ru-shin? Tell me which prophesy that ever said that the two women will remain active on earth after the departure of Abd-ru-shin. I can show you a vision received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin, in the vision it was revealed that Maria and Irmingard will depart the earth with Abd-ru-shin, drawn back by his ray through which they unfolded. This was easily distributed to cross bearers when Abd-ru-shin was alive and he didn’t say the vision was wrong. This you can also find online. Maybe this is above your head too.
You might also, want to read “Memories of Joseph Wagna,” which was released by the movement and later recalled. Fragments of it are online.

shinealight:

The question I always ask myself about this kind of allegations is: Why? For what purpose? Why would Herr Vollman tamper with or change the words of And-ru-shin? Is it to show that he knows better than the Author Himself? Surely, a highly Called One like Herr Vollman who stood solidly by Maria and Irmingard after the passing of Abd-ru-shin, would know the consequences of such an action better than most. Again, in the absence of answers to these questions, I prefer to err on the side of caution!

From a book by a cross berer, I quote:

“In the book “Questions and Answers” published by the Stiftung Gralsbotschaft, one finds the following answer of Abd-ru-shin to question number 7:

Question: Has the Grail Movement (Gralsbewegung) any connection with one of the exsisting Grail oders, or with any such societies with similar names?
Answer: The Grail Movement (Gralsbewegung) has no such connection whatever with any of the known orders or societies. In its sbolute independence it would also reject any connection.

However, the original version reads thus:

Question: Has the Grail papers (Gralsblatter) any connection with one of the exsisting Grail oders, or with any such societies with similar names?
Answer: The Grail papers (Gralsblatter) has no such connection whatever with any of the known orders or societies. In its sbolute independence it would also reject any connection.

The Apostle Herbert Vollman was once asked about this change. This was his response:
The Gralsblatter (Grail papers) as they had emerged under the direction of Abd-ru-shin do not exist anymore today.
These writings were used to make known the Knowledge which was transmited by Abd-ru-shin. They also established the relation between Abd-ru-shin and the human beings who had recognized and were following the Grail Message.
After Abd-ru-shin no longer sojourned wmong us tererestrially, and his “Gralsblatter” could no longer function, in its place was set up the “Gralsbewegung”(Grail Movement), under the name of which is today reunited all the Activity of the Grail on earth.
Because of this fact, the word “Gralsblatter” was replaced in the Questions and Answers Number 7 with the word “Gralsbewegung”.

Please refute the above.

shinealight:

New editions of the book need to be produced periodically because the vocabularies of our languages are constantly changing. The English of the 1920s and 1930s cannot be said to be appropriate for the younger generation of today. For instance, the word "Phantasie" was used in the German edition many times which was translated to English as "Phantasy" but this has now been replaced with "fantasy" which is more in line with current usage. I would say therefore that revisions are necessary periodically, say every ten years or so if only to update the vocabulary!

So why change the German ones two? Was the German language prepared for the message? Justcool said that the German language was as perfect as any language could be during the writing of the Grail message, and hence the language of the Grail Message cannot be improved even grammatically. Is He wrong?
Also, rather than changing it to fit the younger generation, why not make the younger generation learn the language of the message? Schools make us learn old English so that we can understand Shakespeare. They don’t translate Shakespeare to fit us, because they revere Shakespeare and know that a lot of the poetry will be lost in the translation.
If you revere the Grail message, you must notice that not only does Abd-ru-shin have superb descriptive abilities, he is also poetic. The popetry like music goes straight to the spirit. Try reading the chapter, “Silence” aloud. You will be struck at the arrangement of the words. In time all these will be lost because you guys keep changing words to fit the younger generation.
By the way, have you heard the language of the younger generation today? Every sentence has the “F” word and “S”(referring to human secrement) word. Its sad they way things are going, very soon we will see the “F” word on the Grail message or see the Grail message in pidgin English. A friend sent me psalm 23 in Pidgin English! It was blasphemous!!! I tore it to pieces.
You and I know that these new editions are made for money. Money is the main motive.

shinealight:

For me, it is neither here nor there that they tried to register the Movement as a Religious Society if they considered it expedient to do so at the time. It is not the label that counts but the practice. The statement made by the Author relates to practice, i.e. what people do with His Message, how they perceive it inwardly and whether they live it instead of rapturously hailing and praising the Bringer as they are wont to do with religions without understanding what is demanded of them for their salvation.

This shows how much you value the Grail message. “If they considered it expedient…!” Why else would they consider it so if not because of money, for tax purposes! To you it doesn’t matter what Abd-ru-shin said, all that matters is what they(your religion) consider expedient!!?
“Practice” you said! Yeah right! Let me register your father’s house as a house of harlots and you won’t mind as long as there are no harlots in it?? If I register you a sex offender in the court or with the authorities, it won’t bother you as long as you don’t practice sex offence
What you won’t let others do to you, you will do to the Grail message. Whatever happens to “Love your neighbor as thy self!”

shinealight:

He says: "The following Word does not bring a new religion"! This means he does not want humanity to approach it with the same attitude that they generally adopt with their religions. This fact is illustrated by the Answer given to Question 10 in Q & A where it is asked: "Is church attendance advisable for seekers"?
In response, we are told: "The way to the Truth goes also through the churches. The decisive factor for it is always and only the inner state of the individual........"
Further on, we are told: "The churches are quite good, but the people, [i]those who attend these churches, are inwardly dead. If they bring life into themselves, they will also find what they need in the churches".
From the above it can be seen that the emphasis of the Author of the Grail Message is to enlighten humanity on earth so that they can live as responsible human beings with full knowledge of the Laws of Creation and acting responsibly therein out of conviction.
Hence, in the preface to the book he also says: "........Religious fanatics and irresponsible enthusiasts may hold aloof, for they are detrimental to the Truth". ]

This is fallacy! I don’t even need to reply to it. Abd-ru-shin never intended to found a church or religion. He brought the Truth, Truth has no religion, no church.

shinealight:

The passage says: ".....It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration".
This makes perfect sense because anything that follows the LAWS OF CREATION will proceed along the path of development intended for it and will always remain "fresh and healthy" (without any undesirable or unwanted dross) while maintaining that course. It is the unwanted dross that precipitates over-ripeness which then leads to premature disintegration. It does not mean that the celestial globe will never go through disintegration but it will proceed along the path ordained for it and will remain fresh while on that path and fully complying with the Laws of Creation as willed by the Creator. It will get to its destined end when it is meant to get there, not before and not later. Also, that end will only be a replenishing, strengthening and renewal (corresponding to a new birth) which is not the same as destruction! ]

You are attaching words there to justify it. It didn’t say premature. I believe the word premature was in existence when that verse was written and the writer knows that word very well, yet he didn’t use it. Don’t attach it there, it wasn’t talking about premature, it was talking about the afro-mentioned disintegration.
If it meant what you said, the writer would have added that it such worlds would eventually also go through disintegration. Rather it said “thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration” which is ambiguous and actually means that such worlds will never be disintegrated.
If I tell you: ".....you will always remain fresh and healthy and swing in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to old age and death".

It simply means that you will never die. If you don’t understand this, then you should consider taking an English class.
From my understanding, it is not sin that brings over-ripeness, rather it is a natural stage that all material forms must arrive at. Over-ripeness is like old age, Jesus would have aged too and died if he didn’t die young.

shinealight:

Some definitions of the word "Religion" given in the English dictionary are:
1.) the organised service and worship of a god, gods, or the supernatural.
2.) a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardour and faith.
So, if you participate in organised worship of the Creator in whatever way, you can be said to be involved in religious practice. If on the other hand you choose not to be openly involved in any "organised" worship but you hold firmly to some principle or belief with unbending conviction, you can equally be accused of being engaged in religionism. To believe in nothing and hold nothing sacred should not be an option for a human being! What is most important therefore is to hold on to a principle that is true, unchanging and eternal which are the hallmarks of the Spiritual. Then one can say unashamedly that one is practising a Religion of Truth!

I repeat, there is nothing like the religion of Truth. Truth has no religion. Religion comes from the word to regulate. They use it to regulate and control both information and the masses.

shinealight:

I still maintain that the notion that any third party may have added or introduced any contradictory word or error to the GM is nothing but unmitigated fallacy! People cannot say in one breath that they believe that one Personality is an Anchorage of Purity and then turn around and say in another breath that this same Personality is a liar!
Everyone can take that statement as it strikes or touches them.
Best wishes.

Did you read justcool's explanation to Speer about the anchorage of Purity and Love, I believe his explanation is correct. If he is wrong, let us know. In the lecture, The Primordial Spiritual planes it is revealed that Maria and Irmingard are not part of creation, and not tied to their anchorages in creation. Even if these anchorages are primordial spiritual beings, cant they make mistakes? Didn't Lucifer who was Divine make mistake? especially at the time when they are not connected to Maria and Irmingard.

Also, I'm a seeker but I know that the Grail Message said that only womanhood had to do with Irmingard, men had nothing to do with her. This is not an exact quote, but my summery. How can she then on earth, lead a movement that is made up of men and women. The Grail Message also say that Maria and Irmingard are active without the possibility of anything in creation reacting upon them. So how can they lead mankind when mankind's reaction cannot reach them? Justcool explained how a certain degree of homogeneity or connection is needed between a teacher and his/her subjects. Doesn't the fact that they led an earthly movement already show that they can make mistakes?

Being a woman, I delved into the message to find the earthly role of women which is passive and mostly spiritual. Leading a movement comprising of men and women, in my view, does not correspond to the higher calling of women.

Justcool once explained that the message took thousands for years for its preparation, and that even before incarnating, but Jesus and Ab-ru-shin knew consequences and the possibility of rejection and mankind's failure? How come with this knowledge he wrote the Message, only to change the whole thing after he noticed that mankind had failed. So he didn't know or anticipate the failure before writing?

I have read where Mr Vollman admitted to making a change in "Question and answers!" supposedly written by Abd-ru-shin. If you want I can show it to you. Isn't this prof enough that they change the words of Abd-ru-shin? Wasnt Maria and Irmingard alive when Vollman changed the words to an answer given by Abd-ru-shin? What about the changes I heard they made on the Past eras awaken? In this case they don't claim that it was Abd-ru-shin that made the changes, yet the original stories were received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin. Only for the movement to change them when He was no longer on earth. What about the ones they withdraw and choose not to sell anymore, eventhough it was freely sold at the time of Abd-ru-shin.

If all these changes can be made within decade, who know what the book will look like in thousands of years. Considering that they are still editing it and replacing words with the alleged "better ones."

I also read that they tried to register the movement as a religion after the death of Abd-ru-shin, but the authorities refused because the Grail message in its preface clearly said that, "The following words does not bring a new religion."

Your explanation about using "Afore-mentioned" to introduce a new concept still does not make sense to me, but lets not dwell on that. How about where it said that under certain circumstances matter will always remain fresh, " thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration".

So you believe under certain circumstances this earth can exist forever?

I believe the movement is a religion. Thats why the highest number of members in Nigerian. This is a trend that is found in all religions, Nigerians are very religious.

Best wishes to you too.

shinealight:

Thanks for your comments Anna 7. It would appear that Justcool has already taken his own decision on how he wishes to view the portion of the Grail Message in question. That is his prerogative. However, every decision has consequences, even more so when one allows that decision to affect or influence other human beings who are susceptible to one's guidance and/or direction.
For your benefit and that of others who are still inwardly free to make their own assessment, deductions and conclusions, I would like to make a further clarification on the issue.
The first point to note is that there is no contradiction whatsoever in the entire Grail Message. Any apparent contradiction or error is only due to the inner incapacity or intellectual inadequacy of the individual reader to grasp correctly what is being offered to him. The Bringer of the Grail Message is totally incapable of introducing "error or contradiction" in his Work because he is "Perfection" itself! The notion that any third party may have added or introduced such contradiction is also nothing but unmitigated fallacy!
The second point to note is that the Grail Message is a single Work, though given to mankind of today in three volumes. Therefore a concept introduced in Volume 1 can be referred to as "afore-mentioned" even in Volume 3. The whole concept of "disintegration setting in at a certain point of the great cycle" had been thoroughly explained in the lecture The World (Volume 1, Lecture 13). Hence the Author has admonished readers to go through the entire Message step by step without jumping lectures or passages. The Author expressly states as follows in the Epilogue:
Quote -
"Therefore avoid anything desultory, but fathom each of my words from the beginning, and sentence by sentence. No person is able to exhaust the value of the Message here on earth, for it is intended for all parts of the World. Do not pick out certain passages of the Message at random! It is one whole, indivisible, like God’s Laws of this Creation. No human spirit can alter or distort anything without being harmed in the process. Nor can you introduce anything into it from outside either; you cannot insert anything alien which is more pleasant to you into individual passages, no matter whether it originates from a known teaching or comes from yourselves!
You must leave my Message unchanged from the first to the last word if it is to benefit you! You must first experience it within yourselves so as to form your outward life in accordance with it!"
Unquote. (bold emphasis mine!)
Now to the passage in question (Volume 2, Lecture 52).
While it may help somewhat in attaining clarity, the main issue is really not about the use of the words "afore-mentioned periodic" or "afore-mentioned sporadic", etc. The main point is that the Author is describing a scenario to us and telling us what happens under such a scenario.
The scenario he is describing explains the circumstances that lead to a "purification" taking place!
It is noteworthy that a normal process of disintegration will take place in ALL celestial globes when they reach a certain point in the great cycle (regardless of the condition of the globe or its inhabitants) to return all matter to its primeval substance. Such a normal disintegration which accords with the Will of the Almighty does not entail a purification! "Purification" only takes place under a situation of over-ripeness of a celestial globe caused by the inhabitants not following the Will of the Almighty.
The Author introduces this passage and starts off by saying -
Quote
"The processes in the cycle of the World of Matter indicated here only in broad outline may also produce a few exceptions which, however, are not caused by any changes or distortions in the effective Laws of Creation, but which contain complete and inexorable fulfilment.
In order to avoid errors creeping in I now wish to give a few brief explanations in advance of later lectures where the subject is dealt with
more fully :"
Unquote.
Two things to take note of in this introduction. Firstly, he says the processes in the cycle.....may also produce exceptions ....which remain valid within the Laws of Creation. Secondly, he ends that introduction with a colon ( : ). Anybody with access to the original German text can check it and will find that the colon is also there! What does the colon tell us? Simply that he is about to unfold a scenario which may constitute an exception to the processes in the World of Matter but which nevertheless conforms with the Laws!
The Author then goes ahead to describe a situation whereby the celestial globe is brought to that point in the great cycle (when disintegration automatically sets in) brought there not by normal process of development but through the fact that the human spirits have not been living aright but have contributed to an increase in the density and heaviness of that globe which was not willed by the Light. This increase in density/heaviness forces the globe unto a course that leads to over-ripeness and to the funnel where disintegration takes place!
It is under these circumstances that, through an Act of Grace of the Creator, an Envoy of the Light may be permitted to incarnate in order to strengthen the Power of the Light which then results in a purification taking place to sweep away all that is dark and to pull up the thus blessed globe into more luminous regions so that it passes above the funnel of disintegration and remains in existence!
We are further told in this passage that:
".....The compulsory purification connected with the anchoring of the Light is the same as an absolutely new birth!"
In other words, this extraordinary and exceptional Grace which side-steps the cataclysmic process of disintegration, nevertheless produces the desired "new birth" which would have taken thousands of years to accomplish under the normal disintegration process.
What a Revelation! No human being on earth was privy to such deep spiritual knowledge. Hence no human being could fabricate and add this portion to the Grail Message!
Best wishes.

@shinalight

Your stance is a little bit harsh and contradictory.

I found this harsh:

shinealight:

Any apparent contradiction or error is only due to the inner incapacity or intellectual inadequacy of the individual reader to grasp correctly what is being offered to him.

I found this being addressed to Justcool very harsh. He is only sharing his perception. It appears that you are offended because his views does not agree with your religious view. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

shinealight:

The notion that any third party may have added or introduced such contradiction is also nothing but unmitigated fallacy!

How is this fallacy? I have researched on this issue myself, as I was deciding which faction to get sealed at. Let me being by saying that the fact that there are factions of the Grail movement is in itself very discouraging, especially to seekers like me. I have heard about the harsh ways each faction treats their opponents. Some have even shared their experience in this forum. This is enough evidence that this movement is a religion. How do you reconcile it with the Grail message that in its preface clearly stated that "The following words does not bring a new religion!"
From my observation, it seems that each time you bring a spiritual question to them, they will first like to know what faction you belong to. Whether you belong to the mountain or not. It seems they are leading to their factions rather than to God. This disgusted me and I stayed away. Only in Nairaland did I find two genuine(Justcool and Mnwankwo) crossbearers who, I perceive are more interested in leading seekers to God and not to any faction. From my own understanding, justcool does not even belong to any. I noticed the first question you asked in this thread, you asked justcool's view of the mountain. He answered without knowing where you were headed, but I suspected you were asking about the factions, and I knew this thread will come to this. This thread has been very spiritually enlightening, please let's not derail it.

You said it is unmitigated fallacy to suggest that a third party changed the Grail message, yet none of the factions have the original manuscript where Abd-ru-shin made the changes. Please if you do, show us.

As for me I don't know who made the changes. But there is no evidence that Abd-ru-shin did. And there is motive for the movement to do so, considering the legal discord that happened around that time. All these are easily found on-line. The other evidence is that some of the added verses are not in accord, or does not flow with the rest of the message as this thread has conclusively shown.

shinealight:


The second point to note is that the Grail Message is a single Work, though given to mankind of today in three volumes. Therefore a concept introduced in Volume 1 can be referred to as "afore-mentioned" even in Volume 3. The whole concept of "disintegration setting in at a certain point of the great cycle" had been thoroughly explained in the lecture The World (Volume 1, Lecture 13).

Here is where you made loads of contradictions. The knowledge of disintegration was introduced in Volume I, Lecture 13 as something that all matter must go through when they reach a certain stage. All though the Grail message it maintained this fact that all that is material is subject to disintegration. Then, in volume II, in the lecture 52, it continued to describe the process, prescribing matter as eternally rotating though birth and decay. It even compares matter with a field of grain, stating that:

"In the same way as a field after a number of years yields an ever-decreasing harvest of grain, and only receives new strength through planting different crops, so it is with the whole World of Matter. This, too, becomes exhausted after a time and must refresh its strength through disintegration and a new composition. Such events, however, cover millions of years, but even in happenings extending over many millions of years there comes one definite year which is absolutely decisive for the necessary separation of what is useful from what is useless."

The above is consistent with The World (Volume 1, Lecture 13). So the disintegration so far talked about is a natural process that must happen when its time comes. Then all of a sudden, in the added verse, it sad that the afore-mentioned is "a consequence of the fact that the human spirit-germs, which have the capacity to make a free decision, are permitted to develop in the Worlds of Matter."

This is a big contradiction because up to that point in the Grail Message the disintegration has only always been described as a natural consequence of rotation of matter. So the words "Afore-mentioned" is out of place as justcool pointed out.

How can I say Mr A's gender is male because he was born male and later in the same text say that the aforementioned gender of Mr A is male because of his choice/fault, he changed his gender. Granted, it is possible for someone to change his gender and go from male to female or from female to male, but in this case I have stated many times in my text that Mr A is male because he was born male, then all of a sudden, later I add another verse to say that the aforementioned Mr A is male because he changed his gender. Obliviously there is a contradiction. If I want o introduce the idea that one can also change ones gender out of choice or fault, I wouldn't start with the word "Afore-mentioned."

We know matter is transitory and subject to change of forms, must disintegrate. We also know that sin can lead to a premature disintegration.
When I write a text describing the disintegration that occurs naturally, that matter must disintegrate. And later in the same text, I added that the disintegration I have been talking about(the afore-mentioned) is as a result of sin! and you don't see contraction

I belive you did not grasp what justcool was pointing out.

Anna7, in her last submission, got it right, by admitting that "Here it is only a case of using wrong words “aforementioned sporadic” in place of “below mentioned sporadic”, but no contradictions."

If you really believe that Abd-ru-shin is perfection personified then the idea of attributing "wrong words" to him is out of the question. It simply was not written by him. And it is a contradiction event though you refuse to admit it.

shinealight:

The scenario he is describing explains the circumstances that lead to a "purification" taking place!
It is noteworthy that a normal process of disintegration will take place in ALL celestial globes when they reach a certain point in the great cycle (regardless of the condition of the globe or its inhabitants) to return all matter to its primeval substance. Such a normal disintegration which accords with the Will of the Almighty does not entail a purification! "Purification" only takes place under a situation of over-ripeness of a celestial globe caused by the inhabitants not following the Will of the Almighty.

Here you agree that disintegration takes place in all matter, maybe Justcool has rightly drilled that into you. But you fail to realize that even this obivouse truth of disintegration of all matter was contradicted in the added verse which says:
"Any part of the Cosmos or any celestial body in the World of Matter in which the developing human spirits adjust all their desires and pure volitions only to the Light remains more luminous, and therefore lighter, on a plane where it can uninterruptedly absorb the living radiating powers out of the Light. It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration."

Doesn't this suggest that under certain circumstances matter will always remain fresh, " thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration".

This bolded part is really wired because even a child knows that all that is material is transient. Its like the Catholics saying that under certain circumstances the physical body can live forever and enter paradise. They believe this happened to Elijah, Jesus and Virgin Mary.

Also, show me where the Grail Message said that the disintegration that happens periodically as a natural consequence does not bring purification! To the best of my knowledge, all disintegration serves also to purify matter because in the process all that is evil will be destroyed!!!!!!!!!

shinealight:

Two things to take note of in this introduction. Firstly, he says the processes in the cycle.....may also produce exceptions ....which remain valid within the Laws of Creation. Secondly, he ends that introduction with a colon ( : ). Anybody with access to the original German text can check it and will find that the colon is also there! What does the colon tell us? Simply that he is about to unfold a scenario which may constitute an exception to the processes in the World of Matter but which nevertheless conforms with the Laws!
The Author then goes ahead to describe a situation whereby the celestial globe is brought to that point in the great cycle (when disintegration automatically sets in) brought there not by normal process of development but through the fact that the human spirits have not been living aright but have contributed to an increase in the density and heaviness of that globe which was not willed by the Light. This increase in density/heaviness forces the globe unto a course that leads to over-ripeness and to the funnel where disintegration takes place!
It is under these circumstances that, through an Act of Grace of the Creator, an Envoy of the Light may be permitted to incarnate in order to strengthen the Power of the Light which then results in a purification taking place to sweep away all that is dark and to pull up the thus blessed globe into more luminous regions so that it passes above the funnel of disintegration and remains in existence!
We are further told in this passage that:

Colon only means that the following sentence will explain what I mean. Hence after a colon comes the explanation. It can also mean introduction of new concept like you rightly said. But in this case it was not instruction of new concept otherwise he would not have used the word "afore-mentioned." No language in the world, not even the German language, introduces a new idea by "The Afore-mentioned.

Justcool thank you so much for this wonderful explanation, I completely agree. Remain blessed.

aGerald:
OK, but water can only passes through permeable substances.
I will reflect more carefully on what you said, and re-read the lectures you stated, and hopefully I shouldn't have any more questions concerning this.

I came to understand that animals are animistic, and after their maturity on earth return back to the animistic world.
Thus one soul for one animal quite ordinarily!
What about those minority creatures, those one who don't even know they exist but all they do is cause destruction every where? There are so many of them.
It's funny to say they have a purpose on earth, and after that they return to the animistic.
They are so useless and I don't think they can participate in any thing at all in the luminous realms.
Among these are the disease vectors.
Thus my question is: What drives these things? Is it God? The elementals? What is their purpose? Why do they exist(I'm not talking about the obviously useful ones)? Does a germ have a personal soul of it's own? Where do they go to after their cycle? And in fact, what is really the untold purpose of the animal?

Nice question. Pls justcool can you help us with this question?

justcool:






@ bsjay
Thanks for your answer which is in accord with the Truth.

@latrust
In addition to the reply given by bsjay, I will give further clarifications.

The three fundamental laws of creation explains to us how creation functions or operates; while the ten commandments of God tells us how to live in order not to be entangled, deterred, hurt, delayed, or destroyed by the three fundamental laws of creation of creation. If we live in compliance with the Ten Commandments, then the laws of creation will ennoble, free, and uplift us spiritually.

Imagine creation like an electronic equipment, lets take TV as an example. The three fundamental laws of creation are like the scientific principle through which the TV was built and through which it operates i.e. the circuit design of the TV; while the Ten Commandments are the manual which tells you how to use or operate the TV. An engineer may need only the circuit design of the TV to know how to operate it safely, but a layman needs the manual. In the manual it may say, RULE NO 1: Never pour water into the TV, clean with dry rags but never we rags. This is an advice that the operator of the TV must follow in order not to get hurt, hurt others, or spoil the TV; it may appear as a commandment to him which he must follow to please the manual writer. But the engineer knows that this Rule stems from the fact that the TV uses 240 volts (electricity) and from the principle or law that water conducts electricity. Hence he knows that one pouring water into such an appliance, will not only destroy it, but stands a great danger of getting electrocuted. Another rule in the manual may say, "Never unscrew or open the back of the TV." Once again this rule is to prevent the layman from coming into contact with electricity, which is very fatal.


In the above analogy, the circuit design can be likened to the three fundamental laws of creation. It shows the principles, the intrinsic abilities of all that exists in creation, the power that sustains creation and the unavoidable or immutable operations of creation. While the rules or instructions in the operative manual of the TV can be likened to the Ten Commandments. They advise us on how to live our lives in order to succeed and not destroyed by the immutable operations of creation.

The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews of that time who had been slaves all their lives, and hence not learned. That was all they could understand at that time; it would have been futile trying to teach them the fundamental laws of creation because they would not have understood it; understanding creation involves inflexible and objective weighing and examining the world around them. Having being slaves all their lives, they knew not how to question or think for themselves objectively; they only knew how to follow rules and commandments, as their Egyptian masters had drilled this into them. As a slave, they had to always obey the commandment of their masters even at the expense of their own conscience; and over time they become accustomed to disregarding their own conscience. Hence, given their situation, they could benefit more from commandments; the best way to approach them was through giving them rules and commandments. Masters think for themselves, slaves obey rules; and the Jews of that time were slaves. Actually, the majority of mankind at that time were, generally speaking, were not yet ready to understand the fundamentals laws of creation.
The Ten Commandments were meant to guide them towards achieving that maturity to investigate and think for themselves, to investigate why they must follow the commandments. They should have, after being set free from Egypt, as time went by, gradually cast off all shackles of slavery, and regained their humanness and become free independent human beings. A free human being has a God-given urge to question and investigate and arrive at his own perception of the Truth. They should have put the Ten Commandments into scrutiny and through this they would have discovered the three fundamental laws of creation themselves.
If one puts the Ten Commandments to scrutiny, the first thing he may discover is that each of these commandments are always in accord with his conscience! Then he will go further to discover that each time he acts against his conscience, hence disobey the commandment—for example, each time he lies—he feels guilty afterwards. And this “feeling” of guilt always involves certain heaviness, sometimes allowing him to sink into despair, be it only in his feeling. At the same time he notices that each time he follows his conscience and does something pious, like saying the Truth at all cost, afterwards he feels a certain sense of lightness which always accompanies great inner happiness. Now he knows that lying, acting against his conscience, or breaking one of the Ten commandments envelops him or “his mind” with heaviness leaving despondent; while honesty, compliance with his conscience, or obedience to the commandment “Thou shalt not lie,” feels with a an uncanny feeling of lightness, nobility, raising him towards bliss. Has this man not discovered the law of spiritual gravitation? Evil weighs down while good uplifts! This is law of spiritual gravity! And in the impression that either lying or speaking the Truth makes on his mind, conscience, or soul, has he not observed the law of action and reaction! Has he not realized that everything he does, be they good or evil, has a corresponding reaction on him that registers in his mind, either raising him high, or allowing him to sink? This is the law of reciprocal action.
This is universal to all mankind; everybody has a prick of conscience when he does evil and a feeling of piousness or lightness when he does good! Although some people have learned to endure so many pricks of conscience that it appears normal to them. They have learned to live in darkness.

But unfortunately majority of mankind never regained their free-will or freedom to question. The religionists came along to continue to enslave mankind by telling people never to question the commandments. And always to follow even those commandments they cannot unite with their conscience. Had most people put the commandments to scrutiny like I described above, then the realization that the Ten Commandments are all in accord with their conscience would have been their greatest guard against deception. If one realizes that a commandment from God cannot go against his(the individual’s) conscience or the voice of his spirit, then he can easily filter out all the lies and deceptions added to the commandments and scriptures. He will never agree that God will reward him with seventy virgins for killing his fellow man. Such a person will not believe that God will kill His innocent son as payment for the sins of guilty mankind. Each man’s conscience rebels against such teachings, but through religious indoctrination people are coerced to disregard their conscience, and never to question the commandments and the scriptures.

Hence, from all that has been said on this issue, to obey the laws of creation or to live in accord with them is synonymous to obeying the Ten Commandments. One, who fully understands the laws of creation, will voluntarily live in such a way as not to be hampered by them, he will live in accord with the Ten Commandments. This also means living in accord with one’s own conscience.

Thanks and remain blessed

Thanks alot justcool, i am so blessed with your explanations from the TV anology to the Egyptian slavery of the Israelites, and also the way most relationist change the commandments to cover their evil ways. Im so grateful for this wonderful knowledge you have impacted in me, May the light continue to shine in your life. Remain blessed.

Hi justcool, pls i need you to clarify something for me. Its from the Grail message and the topic is " The worship of God", it says "The true worship of God is by obeying the laws of God". Now my question is which law is it talking about, is it the three fundamental law of nature or the Ten commandments? . Thanks, pls im waiting for your reply.

Power of love. May there soul rest in peace.

Thanks for sharing

I wish you a safe delivery annie.

Chocolate.

Thanks for sharing

They look beautiful.

This is painful

Fried rice and chicken

Exercise will help you, pls don't take pills

Congrat

I don't know why most Christian are after miracle instead of God. I don't believe that water heals because there is no prove.

Cute

Wow, this is lovely. I love the pics.

I'm happy for you Tonto

Wow!!! 12 years without any discussion of marriage? Pls toke check your character.

Nah wow o

Shoes, bags, garri, rubber, cars, ankara. Agege bread, ofada rice etc....

Fish pepper soup.

Beans

Nice

Wow!!! This is nice, I will try it.

May his soul rest in peace