₦airaland Forum

ariesbull:
That is exactly for Yoruba people! That's what I am saying cos it's not like that in Igbo

How do Igbo people now learn tailoring, mechanic, carpentry and etc if not with the Yoruba system?

ariesbull:
Difference Between Yoruba and Igbo Apprenticeship Systems

Yoruba Apprenticeship System

1. An apprentice is usually required to pay a token fee before starting to learn the trade.


2. After completing the training, the apprentice may be asked to pay freedom money before being allowed to leave and operate independently.


3. The system focuses on skill acquisition, after which the apprentice is responsible for starting their own business.




Igbo Apprenticeship System

1. The apprentice does not pay money to learn the trade; instead, they offer loyalty, humility, obedience, and diligence, usually for about 3–5 years.


2. After completing the apprenticeship, the master often settles the apprentice by providing money, goods, or startup capital to begin their own business.


3. This system emphasizes mentorship, trust, and long-term economic empowerment.


Summary

Yoruba system: Pay to learn → pay to exit → start independently.

Igbo system: Serve faithfully → learn the trade → receive support to start a business.


Both systems have strengths and reflect different cultural approaches to learning skills and building economic independence.But Igbo apprenticeship brings more successful people cos they don't need to start looking for seed capital and also not looking for freedom money and party money after learning the trade

If you learn a skill like tailoring, mechanic, carpentry and etc from a master that is like going to technical college and you must pay for it. The master can only be paying you if you are a journey man that has mastered the trade and can actually contribute to money making. That is the Yoruba system. The Igbo system is not really apprenticeship but serving your master. You are a sales person or manager for a number of years and then you are settled.

The new tax law- A boom for the accounting practice


The FG has said they are targeting around ten million bank accounts. I don't know their turnover threshold though but if you are turning over millions of naira per annum you will need an accountant and you will need to keep receipts of what you buy
A trader selling millions of naira a day will have to prove how much he is paying as wages and will also have to file CIT returns.
An artisan that charges for work done must remember to add VAT because if your turnover is in millions of naira per annum then the FIRS will come after you.
Many people that make money will be left out because the money does not pass through banks in the majority.
The new tax drive by the FG will cause a boom for accountants especially chartered accountants. It may also lead to an increase in PAYE for states because companies will have to declare how much they pay in salaries and the FG may do the work of states for them by compelling them to file PAYE returns

US satellites can see them as they move to and fro their headquarters in the bush planning bombings and kidnappings and this has been going for years. They have the means to strike them while Nigeria does not have the means. They kill Nigerian soldiers even a General. The US has done Nigeria a favor by striking their camp and the Nigerian government said it was in collaboration with them

Governor Mbah is my governor of the year


Governor Mbah of Enugu state transformed the state in one year to a state that does not need federal allocations to survive. That is a commendable feat. SE governors have done well more than others. Abia has acquired a paper mill for 2.5 billion naira from AMCON while Imo state has acquired an aluminium extrusion company. ABA now has 24/7 electricity and Enugu has established a state transport company.
All state governments should take a cue from them and lead industrialization in their states.
In Ilesa here we have once fledgling companies that are now moribund. We have the Adediran steel and wire industry and an aluminium extrusion company but nobody has provided funds to revive them.
Enugu has revenue now and it should not stop at just transport company. The government can go into cement production as it is a very lucrative sector and there is no viable company in the sector in the south east. Enugu can go into the sector and then do an IPO after a few years to invite investors.if they don't want to continue leading the management.
Once again kudos to Governor Mbah for freeing Enugu state from being a feeding bottle state.

Tochi360:
If other tribes in the Country had captured the system earlier like Igbo,the human development capital of Nigeria by now for dey massive.

It has its disadvantages. Igbo boys have a lower enrolment rate for waec than Igbo girls for instance and the right and best way to do business is hire employees. Can you send your kid to go and do apprenticeship instead of go to university?. Many boys don't complete secondary school in the east. Then can a real big business rely on the scheme? No They have to start retaining employees if they want to sustain growth

Tochi360:
This boy is someone who I never wanted to take in bcus the first time he came with his brother, one of my boy caught him in ashawo house na the ashawo dey push am to thief from me,even link am to Benin babalawo wey dey do juju for am

Him cast wotowoto bcus My God don already turn me to him own personal arusi on Earth .

Nonetheless ,robbing the sweat of an apprentice is a no no,paying them off in due time is very essential.

One good thing about the apprenticeship system is that it forces the master to grow. You have to grow to be able to pay. If you don't grow you can't pay. If your apprentice is stealing from you that's also another problem. However for a real business you can't be using the system. You have to retain human resources

What criteria did the military use to create states?

What criteria did the military use to create states? If it is by population then the NW should have 12 if the NE has 6 or 15 if the SE has 5. If it is land mass it will still be another ratio.
When the Midwest was created in the sixties, it was because the people agitated for it and there was a referendum.
The only valid reason to create a state is to grant a group autonomy after they have agitated for it
States in Nigeria today are the basis of political appointments and siting of government projects. What criteria do you think the military used to create the current Nigerian states?

There are masters who work for twenty years and are not worth thirty million naira including their homes. How much will those ones settle an apprentice?. Some apprentices are settled less than 500k. It depends on the prosperity of the business. You can only spend from what you have and success is not guaranteed for any business.
This thing that happened is one in a million and it is an over settlement because how will you give a youth twenty million naira for working for a few years while you fed them?

Kukutente23:
You should know already that dude is one of the bigots here from his posturing. Their logic is that SW is the most productive while SE are parasites and kaboom tribal war starts.
Pitiful for educated individuals

P.S. it seems you've been misinterpreting my take all along. Read up on the issues with VAT in Nigeria. It's obvious you understand what VAT is but you don't understand it's peculiarities in the Nigerian scenario

I am a bigot? What I always say is that the SE is not doing badly for their population. They are infact doing higher than average. NIN data says the NW is more than three times the SE in population while the SW is almost three times. On the basis of what are you then comparing them? Why should anyone sane think they should have the same or even comparable output?

Kukutente23:
It will not. If VAT is collected at state level today, VAT remittances from banks and telcos to Lagos state will drop because VAT on N100 credit bought in Kano will go to Kano state govt not Lagos
Same with banks. A man who transfers N50k from his bank account domiciled in Kano to his customer in Lagos will pay the VAT to Kano state govt not Lagos. All those VAT are being remitted today in the name of Lagos

VAT paid by banks is negligible. They only pay on things like transaction fees but you are right on the telcos. If the telcos publish their sales by states it will correspond with population

Kukutente23:
You're writing trash with all due respect. The US is the country with the highest demand in the world. Nigeria is not even in top ten

Not for all goods and services. There are things we buy billions of dollars that they don't buy at all. Like kolanuts like cassava, ankara etc. The US is the chief consumer of luxury goods. It is not all goods that US can buy more than China and India. I can say without checking the internet that the US does not have twenty times the number of smart phones of Nigeria but they have probably more than one thousand times brand new iphones. If not for cost of living the US is not ten times the GDP of Nigeria

Kukutente23:
And how do you determine that purchasing power is not much different. Based on projections, the US and Nigeria have comparable population. Are you saying our demand is almost the same?

The cost of living in USA is more than ten times that of Nigeria. One month rent in the US will pay for five years in some Nigerian cities. For some things like number of smart phones not quality it will be similar. Consumption of staple food will be similar. Amount paid in rent will differ more than twenty times. However among Nigerian states all those things are more comparable therefore purchasing power will be similar. Purchasing power in Lagos, Abuja PH will be higher because they have higher incomes and higher cost of living but it does not mean their quality of life is better

DeepSight:
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Hahahahahahaha!
Dont confuse yourself my dear brother.

Are you trying to say, with the bold, that purchasing goods or services is not an economic activity?

Bro, nowhere in the world is VAT paid without goods or services being purchased/ consumed.

You know what, dont take my word for it. Try Google or AI with these questions.

PS: Why do you say "producing state" and not producer? Do you perchance have a misapprehension that VAT is only taxed on imported goods?

I am not saying buying is not an economic activity but do we have data on buying? No. We only have data on companies that paid VAT in each state and I can say that 70 billion naira in VAT came from over one trillion naira in economic activity by those companies alone. If it were sales tax, I can not come to the same conclusion because they might just be selling imported goods with marginal profit

Kukutente23:
That's not true. They determinant is demand. A country like Japan with far lower population than Nigeria but with far higher demand generates more VAT

What is behind demand if not population? Especially if the purchasing power is not much different

Kukutente23:
What statistics back up your claim of a dead economy in the SE? Can you give us the statistics for production and consumption per region to back up your claim or it's based hate as usual

Are your govs advocating for VAT to be collected per state?

The SE is doing well for the population of the region. IF you collect VAT at state level it will still be the same results unless the states go after those avoiding VAT

DeepSight:
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Hahahahahahaha!
Dont confuse yourself my dear brother.

Are you trying to say, with the bold, that purchasing goods or services is not an economic activity?

Bro, nowhere in the world is VAT paid without goods or services being purchased/ consumed.

You know what, dont take my word for it. Try Google or AI with these questions.

PS: Why do you say "producing state" and not producer? Do you perchance have a misapprehension that VAT is only taxed on imported goods?

Producing state and producer can be interchangeable. If Toyota sells in Nigeria they have already paid VAT on it in Japan and the amount they sold is part of their GDP

Kukutente23:
That's because of the warped nature of our tax collection system. VAT should be collected by sellers and remitted. VAT should only be for goods sold not goods produced.

VAT is not really same as sales tax. Traders don't add value. For sales tax you can't reduce anything, you pay on your gross but for VAT you less your VATable expenditures. You can avoid VAT but you can't avoid sales tax. What the FG was planning to impose on fuel marketers is sales tax not VAT

DeepSight:
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Well the discussion is not about who to praise.
If that came up, every participant along the production, supply, service, delivery and consumption chain should be.

The economic activity that generated VAT is creditable only to the producing state. That is the point. There was VAT paid in China on the Chinese products you buy in Nigeria. Do you want to credit the economic activity to Nigeria?

DeepSight:
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Well of course companies cook books.

The point is who should be commended for VAT is the producing company and not consumers

DeepSight:
+
VAT is a Consumption Tax and always has been.

It is paid by Consumers. It is only remitted by producers, service providers and suppliers after it is collected from Consumers.

What you are describing is closer to WHT (Withholding Tax).

Companies cook their books and avoid paying VAT. So much for paid by consumers. All you need to do is increase artificially your VATable expenditures. It however becomes difficult if you are a public company

DeepSight:
+
You have come again oh aburo. You know I left this matter for you since you seemed to know it all.

Now what are you suggesting here? VAT is a Consumption Tax as I repeated ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Why are you now saying someone has erroneously presumed that VAT should be collected at the point of production when that is what you yourself kept saying through our tempestuous and ill tempered debate on it? Which I said was wrong, as I told you, VAT is rightly collected from the consumer in Nigeria (which you denied). Those producers, service providers and suppliers who remit it for all purposes can be seen as middlemen in the process of collection.

Again you make elementary errors. You have just here called VAT a sales tax, but it is actually a consumption tax. There is a difference.

But you no go gree.

Anyway, I am still fond of your fighting spirit. You just need to cool temper small daz all.

VAT is calculated by companies and paid to FG. If your production cost is ten naira and you sell 1000 then you pay 7.5 percent of the difference. That is VAT. It is a tax paid by productive companies that add value

Kukutente23:
The SE will also argue that it has more people outside its region engaged in economic activities than other regions which will make them the most nationally mobile and integrated region than any other
Besides, you don't need this warped statistics to show that SE gets more than it generates. That was already settled with the previous VAT statistics.
However, I see you're a victim of the confused and dysfunctional nature of VAT collection in Nigeria as you've now erroneously assumed that VAT should be collected at point of production while VAT is known as a sales tax. DeepSight should be able to see the point I was making previously with this your error.
Lastly, there's nothing inherently wrong with migration. The SW is known to have the highest rate of migration outside Nigeria. Does that mean the SW is the least economically viable region? SWners have been migrating since the late 70s. Are you saying SWers have been suffering economically since the 70s?

VAT is paid by producer. Point of sales or collection does not matter. VAT is paid by companies that add value

DomPerignon:
How can Anmbra have a higher GDP?

This is a fallacious lie that must end henceforth.

Ogun and Oyo each individually have more industrial and agricultural outputs than the entire SE combined.

What production is going on in Anambra?

Also, infrastructure, land, available natural reources are also factored in GDP computation.

In terms of land mass and arable land, natural water resources and proven mineral deposits, Niger state is far richer than all of the SE.

Even by just consideration net migration , SE has a net negative migration .

Why are the population of the SE running away from their region if its so productive ?

Every indices points to SE being the region with the least wealth generation and poorest with no job prospects.

That's why you all are scattered across the polity.

Your population would have never recovered after the civil war if Nigerians refused you to settle back and thrive in their midsts.

Be grateful for once .

I am willing to bet that there is no Northern city where Igbo outnumber Yoruba. There is no Yoruba city where Igbo outnumber Hausa but Igbos are more integrated with the Yoruba by marriage and etc

Kukutente23:
The SE will also argue that it has more people outside its region engaged in economic activities than other regions which will make them the most nationally mobile and integrated region than any other
Besides, you don't need this warped statistics to show that SE gets more than it generates. That was already settled with the previous VAT statistics.
However, I see you're a victim of the confused and dysfunctional nature of VAT collection in Nigeria as you've now erroneously assumed that VAT should be collected at point of production while VAT is known as a sales tax. DeepSight should be able to see the point I was making previously with this your error.
Lastly, there's nothing inherently wrong with migration. The SW is known to have the highest rate of migration outside Nigeria. Does that mean the SW is the least economically viable region? SWners have been migrating since the late 70s. Are you saying SWers have been suffering economically since the 70s?

The determinant is population. You can't pull weight more than your population

The new tax law

I think the new tax law is geared towards collecting more VAT and CIT. It is a real good thing to free the government from dependence on oil revenue by any means. There are industries in the country and most of them are avoiding VAT and CIT. I think most payments come from listed companies that can not hide their books.
The development of a country is tied to tax collection. Most developed countries take almost half of their GDP as taxes. The North for instance have the economic activity to pay more tax than the south. They buy more cement for instance and it is time to make this a reality.
The most important tax is the personal income tax and it belongs to the states. To collect it effectively you have to impose a high enough minimum wage on all employers of labour from one employee up. If you claim to be self employed you must also be able to pay yourself a minimum wage and also file taxes for your company.
A country that depends on taxes will be automatically well run even if the leaders are crooks.
It is high time all tiers of government take their statutory income sources serious as the FG seem to want to do
The money should be spent on education, healthcare, infrastructure and investments
Basic education should be free and anyone that qualifies for university education should be granted automatically a government scholarship but qualifying should not be easy. University fees are now so high that some people pass and can not attend universities because of lack of funds. It was not like that in the nineties when I went to university.
I support the FG's tax drive and I implore other government tiers to follow suit. States should go after PAYE while local governments go after their own taxes like tenement rates and etc. A country where you have to sell oil to see revenue can never be a good country

Irony1:
Oga i know that it is hard for you to believe but consistently over the years even statisense and NBS have shown that Anambra has a higher GDP than Oyo. The trouble with guys like you is that you are too deluded to believe that everything only happens in SW. Most of the VAT and taxes paid by Anambra businessmen is captured outside. NIWA stated that 60% of imports coming into Nigeria via Lagos ports ends up in Onitsha and Aba. The taxes the VAT and other items are captured at the port of entry, so it is pure madness even remotely think that a state that is more industrialized than Oyo state is not justified to have GDP higher than Oyo.
Again you have even casted youreelf by claiming Anambra has millions of non-indigenes, now the same you guys will later claim that they are not hospitable. Which npw begs the question how and where did you get the data on the millions of non-indigenes? Please can you be bold enough to show us.

I did not say Anambra has millions of non indigenes. I said SE has millions of non indigenes. The leader of Yoruba in Anambra said there are over 500k Yoruba there so Anambra alone might have over a million non indigenes. Who knows?. Then real GDP is to do with population. Go online and ask for number of law firms, hospitals, fashion designers, bakeries and etc and you will find Oyo having like double Anambra in ninety percent of sectors but each state has its strength. How then can Anambra GDP be bigger when almost all sectors in Oyo are bigger? Poultry business in Oyo is like ten times that of Anambra while car dealership in Anambra is almost double that of Oyo. NIN statistics put Anambra at 2.5 million entries while Oyo is 4.5 million entries

Irony1:
Haaaaa bros go and check the NBS statistics on Anambra. You are here just making assumptions. You are talking abouy population, okay what is the productive population of Oyo compared to Anambra. I repeat i have seen these figures and i have even posted the link here before so i dare you to go and check
The problem with most of you is that you sit in yiur room and parlor and assume that south east is desolate. After Lagos, Ogun and Kano the next place with the largest concentration of indigenous factories is Anambra basically Onitsha and Nnewi to be precise.

Did I ever say south East is desolate? SE is thickly populated with millions of non indigenes living there. Anambra is industrialized but unless people in Oyo are extremely poor then Anambra GDP can never be higher and Oyo is not extremely poor. A table putting Bayelsa on top of Oyo, Kano and etc is a rubbish table. Despite Bayelsa's oil wealth it is not richer than those states. Oyo paid 70 billion VAT and that represents one trillion naira in GDP and companies paying VAT cant even be ten percent of GDP.
Don't believe any table that says Anambra GDP is higher than Oyo. Believe the VAT paid

discusant:
Buhari came in as president in 2015, first thing he struck on was let Dangote double the price of cement.

Cement is more used in southern Nigeria than in the north.

Since then, Cement prices climb the roof tops.

The North buys around sixty percent of cement produced in Nigeria

shortgun:
Official census remains the authoritative source
Only the NPC census provides a consistent, methodologically sound population baseline across all states.

NIN, voter registration, GSM lines or VAT figures are indicators of activity or engagement, they not reliable population measures.

Less than two million people registered for NIN in Ekiti and over 4.5 million people registered in Oyo. You can't operate bank account without a NIN. Do you really think you need an official census before knowing the population of Ekiti compared to Oyo?

ariesbull:
Stats is not done based in population but by percentage oga ...why are people this shallow


China has a population of over 1 billion
Nigeria has a population of over 200 million

But Nigeria has a higher crime rate than China !

Dude it isn't about population it's about percentage


China generally has a significantly lower crime rate, especially for violent crimes, compared to Nigeria, with China often cited as having very low crime in public spaces and Nigeria facing high crime levels from various threats like kidnapping and jihadists, impacting its overall safety perception.

While China's recorded crime rates per 100,000 have been consistently low (around 0.5 in 2020), Nigeria's rates (around 21.74 in 2019) reflect a more dangerous environment, though official stats can vary.


China's Crime Profile:
Low Overall Rates: China is often described as having low crime, with even major cities experiencing minimal petty theft and violence.
Low Violent Crime: Intentional homicides and armed robbery are rare, with swift, harsh penalties for serious offenses.
Statistics: Rates per 100,000 have fallen, reaching around 0.5 in 2020.

Nigeria's Crime Profile:
High Crime Environment: Nigeria is considered a high-crime country, ranking poorly on global peace indexes.

Diverse Threats: Violence stems from kidnappers, bandits, jihadists, and general criminal activity, with thousands killed annually.
Statistics: Rates per 100,000 were around 21.74 in 2019, significantly higher than China's.


In Summary:
Nigeria experiences a far more dangerous and crime-ridden environment than China, which maintains very low rates of both violent and petty crime, making it appear much safer.

Shallow? What are you arguing? Did you read the OP at all? Both the SW and SE have just over 6 million incidents and the SW according to NIN data have almost three times the SE's population. So if 300 people have the same number of crimes as 100 people, which crime rate is higher? Better go and reread the OP.

shortgun:
This is not true.
In Kabul, Afghanistan the population is 4.6million and Active SIMs is 3 million.
Pyongyang, North Korea has a population of 3million and active GSM lines is 500k.
Hong Kong has a population of 7.5 million with active GSM lines of 15.5million.

I did not say equal. I said proportional. This is normal because it is human beings that use lines. In those cities they may have laws that allow or disallow individuals from having multiple lines. That will affect population to number of lines ratio. Such laws don't exist in Nigeria and Nigerians use GSM lines for the same purposes. Population to GSM lines ratio will be similar across Nigerian states. There will be very little difference.
NIN data registration figures, voter registration figures, active GSM lines, VAT collection and etc are all valid metrics you can use to determine how the population of one state compares to another in the absence of an official census and if any census goes against the trend already observed I will know it has been doctored
Considering the size, why will anyone be surprised the SW is almost three times the SE in population?