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Business / Re: Questions On Non-Interest Banking For Mallam Sanusi by Logical(m): 2:08pm On Aug 01, 2011
Difference:

Interest is variable in conventional interest based loan.

Profit is fixed from day 1 in islamic banking.

If you borrow money from an islamic bank, you know from day 1, how much you are supposed to pay back. After paying the full amount, The bank then releases the property to you as gift.

if a property cost 1M and they sell it to you for 2M, 1M is their profit, and this is clear legitimate business.

Would you rather I change you  18 - 25% on your principal? with + and - inflation value which can vary between 2 - 5% a year?

If you default on a business loan and you are not willing to pay back, they take over your company assets and liquidate it, and take their cash and give you the balance.

if its a mortgage, they sell the property at todays value and give you the balance. All this are drafted in the contract you have with them, when you take loans,

Its just sad that educated people cant research about this things themselves.
Politics / Re: British Airways Regrets Maltreatment Of Nigerians by Logical(m): 8:58am On May 06, 2008
I am a Nigerian born citizen and this is my story. I come from a country where, there is no respect for human rights, innocent people get burnt on the streets, the policemen treat the citizens like animals and well the economy is in shambles. I am helpless and do not condone such activities such as crimes against humanity, corruption and bad services by the service sector in Nigeria, which I have no control over. I complain in silence and sometimes to my other mates through discussions.

I move to a place called London in the United kingdom, where everything seems to be pretty ok, except for the rowdy football fans, some racism, a few hiccups here and there, but the economy seems ok, and so is the economical infrastructure. The job I have seems to be great too. They seem to respect human rights here, and I have come to appreciate such values, and well the great thing is things get done, and well I could complain, if I am not happy with anything, officially or through the media. I love the system.

One day I get treated like shit, and my fellow country mates think I deserve to be treated like shit, because where I come from people treat themselves like shit. It is our culture perhaps?

My fellow country mates think I do not have the right to complain because I come from a place where people do not complain about ill treatments of their fellow mates.

My country mates believe that Nigerians deserve to be treated everywhere they go, the same way they are treated back at home and do not have the rights to complain.

My fellow mates have tried to rationalize inhumane treatments, disrespect and the abuse of human rights the best way they could. It’s sad, but here they have done it so well, that my heart is weeping for them.

The event that sparked this controversy occurred on British soil, where British standards of treatment of detainees apply. So please thread like educated people.
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 1:08pm On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

Now, you really want to celebrate Deedat's false assertions as "scholarly"? Be my guest and be willing to defend Deedat's argument. Do you care to do so?

And why would I want to do that? I have listened and watched a lot of his tricky ways to reaching a conclusion in youtube videos. Interesting, you should watch them. That does show how he uses his knowledge, which I think can be classified within the realms of someone that knows something.

When a scholarship is defined, no character is associated, just the extensive knowledge of the subject.
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 12:49pm On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

@Logical,

If cheating your readers is what you are pushing for as "scholarship", you only confirm the point I made earlier that there is nothing worth celebrating in Muslim hypocrisy.


This what I said and let me say it again. There is a difference between knowledge and character. This are two distinctive, should I say objects?

Are you saying we don't have scholars that are frauds?
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 12:30pm On Feb 06, 2008
Ah, well character has nothing to do with knowledge. He is very aware, has gone through learning to acquire a lot of knowledge to be able to cheat his audience with false assertions as you claim. He can be classified a scholar, because he has the education or rather he is someone who has studied the bible extensively. Motives and character has nothing to do with his knowledge.
Religion / Re: The Bible - February Puzzle by Logical(m): 8:39am On Feb 06, 2008
~Lady~:

True Christians realise that if u try to understand the Bible with human knowledge, u will run mad. However, if u seek God, he will reveal himself to u just as he did to the prophets who sought him.
God said let that which concern u, concern u. Let be that which is beyond human comprehension.


Interesting.
Religion / Re: Dawkins On Religion - Do Not Read If Easily Offended by Logical(m): 8:31am On Feb 06, 2008
goodguy:

Am I still considered a Christian if I choose to believe in, and live my life around just these parts of the Bible?

I think you are a Christian once you believe in the concept of salvation? The rest is secondary, Do you?
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 8:23am On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

Deedat is not a scholar by any stretch. If people like him can be celebrated as such in Islam, it is no wonder that many Muslims with whom I've discussed issues relating to his (Deedat's) articles are uninformed and have had nothing intelligent to say afterwards.

How do we define a scholar? I have watched some debates on Youtube, pretty insightful i must admit, and hec there is no bashings there. cheesy
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 6:04am On Feb 06, 2008
dafidixone:

How can you find a positive thing in a satanic verses?
Religion / Re: Reasons Why I Dont Read King James Bible. by Logical(m): 4:07pm On Feb 05, 2008
@stimulus
damn, are we really on a duel? I thought you were educated, and could put one plus one together? Did I miss something? What exactly are you trying to prove? I choose not to answer your question directly, I guess you wont crucify me for that right? Considering I am not your child?

If I have offended you in anyway by dismissing your arguments before. I hereby Apologize. Have a nice day and let me be.
Religion / Re: Reasons Why I Dont Read King James Bible. by Logical(m): 2:47pm On Feb 05, 2008
At the beginning of her reign England was in despair. The country had been weakened by war and religious strife, and the treasury was empty.

In religious matters Elizabeth steered a middle course between the extreme Protestants and the Catholics. She restored the Protestant service but retained many features of Catholicism, including bishops and archbishops.

She hoped this compromise would produce unity in the state; but the Catholics, who formed a majority of her subjects, were not reconciled.

In the last years of Elizabeth's reign, Catholics were cruelly persecuted and many were put to death.
Religion / Re: God (according To The Bible) by Logical(m): 2:42pm On Feb 05, 2008
woops
Religion / Re: God (according To The Bible) by Logical(m): 12:02pm On Feb 05, 2008
Dāwīḏ:

For how long will islam continue to be NOT a religion but simply a tool of the enemy to fight the truth? Sadly it shall fall.

pilgrim.1:

Afterall, the apostates are the ones who do not "kill" but instead preach about "love" much more than anything.

This is the exact reason why this board is getting banned. I just don't get it.
Religion / Re: Did Jesus For Our Sin? Which Sin? (no, Bring Your Proof If You R Truthful) by Logical(m): 11:11am On Feb 05, 2008
Damn, Are we expected to read all this?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Say No To Religion! Science Is The Truth by Logical(m): 10:02am On Feb 05, 2008
I think anybody that has come across documentation on genetic mutations and evolution of genes over centuries would understand that the Darwin's theory is solid.
Religion / Re: Reasons Why I Dont Read King James Bible. by Logical(m): 9:55am On Feb 05, 2008
Interesting history. Do you think this history is fabrication @~Lady~ and @mazaje
Religion / Re: Islam Versus Christianity : The Morality And Santity Of Marriage. by Logical(m): 9:30am On Feb 05, 2008
@Tayo-D

Firstly you are insinuating that marrying a young girl is the same thing as stealing 2000 years ago. There is a line when it comes to marital customs to crime against the state or a community.

When it comes to God's supposed standards this redefines the whole argument, because it needs to be seen from a different perspective. How about from the perspective of the same God of genocide 2000+ years ago, to Judge an army's genocide back in 2000+ years?.

This is really a difficult argument to debate, and we need evidence with historical backings in depth extensively to argue this, not assumptions to backdate acceptable customs that guide people conscience and marital standards of today. You are using your laws and custom's today to judge Muhammad of yesterday, where the customs back then was totally different. People married way below maturity. Age difference is just an excuse for you to bash the fact

I think when it comes to hatred and maiming, both the bible and the Quran has stories that actually insinuates its ok to do so, and there are parts in the same books, that claim its not so too. The question is, do we use Gods supposed standards there too? I think your argument is valid but weak.

There is the evolved God for example in the bible, yet even with todays customs, You dare not accuse God for his past, using the same standards you are attempting to use here.

I guess you call it blasphemy in religion?

I just think, when it comes to the birth of Religion, it should stay in the past, and if you must practice it, try to evolve it with current trends if possible, and adapt it with present laws, customs that ensure the well being of mankind, so as to ensure peace and harmony. Or be like me, stay away from Religion cheesy
Religion / Re: Dawkins On Religion - Do Not Read If Easily Offended by Logical(m): 2:26pm On Feb 04, 2008
Interesting but i must said this.

1. When it comes to Atheism, the laws are established by mankind, approved by mankind, rational to mankind, logical to mankind and followed not blindly by mankind. Don't we understand our laws and follow them and respect them. I don't know about you, but I do ?

2. Your analogy "if someone handed to you an explosive and said you must not remove the lead else it will be detonated. "

You see it doesn't apply, because if I have the knowledge of what an explosive is, and I have experience or have seen the effects or read different documentation on the effects of an explosive.

I would be aware of the effects of removing the lead. This is through education not blind faith. It does not apply to the concept of religion, because religion is not an accepted authority, does not have rational proofs, requires blind assumption, and lastly goes against my principle of living.

I love every creed, race, tribe and tolerate different views and opinions. I cherish people for their diversity in insights, but accepting religion is totally betraying that established love. Its blind, wicked, heartless and irrational to accept religion.

And lastly I find it interesting when you say "I think it is not out of place if we understand anything fact Blindly",

How can a fact be blind?

Thanks anyway for your time, to each his own.
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 1:50pm On Feb 04, 2008
@imhotep
Quite a valid argument now but not strong because most of the writers of the bible never met Jesus.

John in the early-mid 2nd century.
Mark, the earliest of the gospels, is dated to 70 AD.
Liberal scholars date John (the latest of the gospels) to 125 AD

And yes, with the standards you put we can't trust either. Muhammed or the writers.
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 1:33pm On Feb 04, 2008
imhotep:

Therefore, you must necessarily reject the stories of Muhammad, HE WAS NOT A WITNESS!!! He forged his own stories.

Ah perhaps I read it wrongly? What did you mean. Kindly explain.
Religion / Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 1:24pm On Feb 04, 2008
I am loving this. Quran is a forgery of the Bible. According to wikipedia Forgery is the process of making or adapting objects or documents, with the intent to deceive.

Alright @imhotep, do you mind providing a few examples. Reference to both books would be appreciated. there is a substance to this? Who knows?
Religion / Re: Who Says The Bible Does Not Condone Slavery? by Logical(m): 1:20pm On Feb 04, 2008
Can someone put it in layman's language how to interpret "how the bible says Christian slave owners should treat their slaves" ? I would prefer constructive interpretations with references. Thank you.
Religion / Re: Dawkins On Religion - Do Not Read If Easily Offended by Logical(m): 12:56pm On Feb 04, 2008
@dafidixone
I am impressed. The first Christian that actually dissected points so far in this forum properly and staying in topic.

Ah before I proceed, Just so that you should know. I believe in the concept of God, that is a source of creation, but I do not agree to the concept of Religion, so am I an Atheist? I really wouldn't want to call myself that nor would I want to belong to a group based on supposed divine doctrines.

From what you said this is my conclusion. You agree that

1. Anybody not Christian is condemned and you do not want to have anything to do with that person because the bible says so. Which agrees to my premise, that you discriminate.

2. Christianity is a robot religion, that is to say, you are not allowed to think for yourself, question the doctrines, judge your actions, but follow blindly. As you said and I quote "Christianity teaches us not to question the Authority of God."

3. I don't know what to understand by your statement "Everyone born of woman inherited sin from Adam. It is only through Jesus that we can be saved.", that is a Christian doctrine right? but you present it as if it is the universal word of authority? Help me here, Should I understand something blindly?

4. And please, I don't want any funky spirit in me. Especially one that would prevent me from my natural thinking process, that sounds scary. I pass smiley And no I make my own decision based on my conscience as human, and guided by established society acceptable laws that govern the peace and harmony of mankind.

5. When you say fulfillment, what do you mean exactly in this quote "Old testament is the fulfillment of the New testament. They are both the word of God.". I would like you to explain constructively, as you have been so far. I really appreciate that. And No the bible is not the word of God, but of philosophers over time. With variations of course across different books. Some part of it is nice, especially when it talks about love. The question is, do we accept those philosophies blindly. smiley
Religion / Re: Mixed Marriage by Logical(m): 10:22am On Feb 04, 2008
hotfunmi:

If this wasn't an online discussion, you and your religious faithfuls would've used dagger or bomb to force us to intermarry with you.

hmm, and what makes you think I believe in the concept of religion and have supposed faithfuls. Besides its sad that you can't have any civilized conversation without provocative statements like this, grow up, dear, its about time.

When others counter my arguments, I expect them to dismiss my quotations, one by one, but they didn't. Here they are again, I would appreciate if my interpretation and insight are dismissed throughly.

Logical:

The most astonishing part of all this is racism, discrimination and even prejudice is not promoted by the bible, but some Christians preach and practice it, and claim either that makes them more Christian or that is part of being a Christian, when in fact, it makes them more of the Christian devil.

According to the Christian bible.

1. [/b]All human being are created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27).

[b]2. [/b]God loves the entire world (John 3:16)

[b]3.
Jesus laid down His life for everyone in the entire world (1 John 2:2).

4. God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9), and neither should Christians.

5. [/b]James 2:4 describes anyone who shows discrimination as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, Christians are to love and only love, “love our neighbors as ourselves” (James 2:8 ).

[b]6.
Jesus puts an end to the Jews pride of their status and despise against the Gentiles, by destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14).

7. Jesus commands Christians to love each other as He loves them (John 13:34)

8. At the end of of Matthew 25. Jesus say that If Christians treat a person with contempt, they are mistreating a person created in God’s image; they are hurting somebody that God loves and Jesus died for.

[b]9. [/b]Ephesians 4:32 says an I quote, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.”

And lastly to all racist and discriminating Christians, if you are really Christians as you call yourselves, and supposedly believe in what the Bible tells you, You need to present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Romans 6:13)

Therefore @hotfunmi, @4Him and other Christians that think racism, discrimination or tribalism is acceptable by your beliefs, I have spoken the language you best understand.
Islam for Muslims / Re: Do you have any Question about Islam? by Logical(m): 7:39pm On Feb 03, 2008
hmm now its personal I see smiley
Religion / Re: Mixed Marriage by Logical(m): 6:48pm On Feb 03, 2008
Just curious, @hotfunmi, are you embracing the old testament now? smiley And living by its laws and commandments?
Islam for Muslims / Re: Do you have any Question about Islam? by Logical(m): 6:43pm On Feb 03, 2008
@4him
I don't even know where to begin on re-education on the history regarding this matter. Its apparent that you really don't know what you are talking about. So far I have seen nothing but assumptions and deviation from facts. Just sentiments, If you are ready to argue based on facts, I would be more than happy to discuss, Until then I hereby rest my case.

This are the statements you made, and I raise it because of other readers, for them to understand your views and personal sentiments and assumptions.

4Him:

You say Isreal refuses to abide by international law to return to pre-1967 borders . . . i ask again why was Isreal attacked in 1948, 1953 and 1967 when she was not in control of those borders? WestBank was captured from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt . . . why are "palestinians" now crying for those lands?
Not recognizing the UN, international law and using irrelevant questions to argue without taking facts into consideration.

4Him:

There is no occupation . . . it is simply a catch phrase used as a ruse to achieve a sinister islamic goal . . . the destruction of Isreal.
Living in illusion or rather making an assumption without tangible facts, but sentiments yet again. Or perhaps you just visited Earth, I am confused here.


4Him:

you talk of disenfranchising the "palestinian people" and i ask - who are they? Where was the palestinian arab state prior to 1948? You can't disenfranchise a people who never existed. prior to 1948 the term "palestinian" refered to Jews living in that area. Try and logically read history before regurgitating arab propaganda.
Not recognizing millions of Palestinians victims, I guess you might as well declare them as collateral damage. Do you have a conscience? Please don't say this aloud in public.
Religion / Re: Islam Versus Christianity : The Morality And Santity Of Marriage. by Logical(m): 6:32pm On Feb 03, 2008
focused:

Muhammed was 53 years old when he married Aisha who was 9 years old. Yet they call him a holy prophet. As far as I am concerned he is a sex pervert, who is committing aggressive child abuse.

The question is : Can a nine years old girl take any mature decisions?? shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked

What a terrible example and this is causing havoc because many muslims follow this example, in some of these Islamic countrries, you will see 50 to 60 to 70 years old men looking for a girl as young as 9 to 12 years old as a wife undecided undecided undecided undecided undecided shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked

I have read this argument raised again and again, what standard are we using to judge his marriage to a 9 year old, 1000+ years ago?
Religion / Re: Mixed Marriage by Logical(m): 6:25pm On Feb 03, 2008
As usual old testament to the rescue. smiley Aren't you all proud of yourself? Dismissing New Testament, Very convenient it is. You are quoting the old testament to rationalize your position regarding racism.
Religion / Re: Suicide Is Not Acceptable No Matter The Circumstances! by Logical(m): 10:52am On Feb 03, 2008
stillwater:

I hope you are preaching to your fellow atheists who are always screaming into my ears such selfish lines like "it's my life, it's my body, I can do whatever I please with it."

Perhaps you misunderstood their context of saying so. Yes it is their life and its their body, and they can do whatever they please with it, as long as it does not harm another person or does not have an indirect or direct effect on another human being negatively.

When it comes to such statements you need to understand that, Atheists do believe in the concept of law and order, peace and harmony. To go against that contradicts their choice of belief and nullifies the purpose of that choice. Whatever they said should be linked to the laws that guides and secures their chosen beliefs.
Religion / Re: Islam Versus Christianity : The Morality And Santity Of Marriage. by Logical(m): 10:42am On Feb 03, 2008
I am always interested in increasing my database of religious secrets.

@focused
Maybe you wouldn't mind telling us some secrets you know about the religion as you claimed below?

focused:

@Olabowale :
Who knows you in Ilu Oba ? I am saying that you don't know anything about Islam. If you know the secrets embedded in the cult you call Islam, you will run away fast. So your problem here is advanced ignorance. I will continue to pray for you and I will continue to plead the blood of Jesus on your behalf.

@Olabowale : Hitler was not a Christian, that is not a fact, infact he rejected Christianity according to Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young

Hitler says and I quote

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together, The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity, Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
Religion / Re: Mixed Marriage by Logical(m): 10:32am On Feb 03, 2008
The most astonishing part of all this is racism, discrimination and even prejudice is not promoted by the bible, but some Christians preach and practice it, and claim either that makes them more Christian or that is part of being a Christian, when in fact, it makes them more of the Christian devil.

According to the Christian bible.

1. [/b]All human being are created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27).

[b]2. [/b]God loves the entire world (John 3:16)

[b]3.
Jesus laid down His life for everyone in the entire world (1 John 2:2).

4. God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9), and neither should Christians.

5. [/b]James 2:4 describes anyone who shows discrimination as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, Christians are to love and only love, “love our neighbors as ourselves” (James 2:8 ).

[b]6.
Jesus puts an end to the Jews pride of their status and despise against the Gentiles, by destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14).

7. Jesus commands Christians to love each other as He loves them (John 13:34)

8. At the end of of Matthew 25. Jesus say that If Christians treat a person with contempt, they are mistreating a person created in God’s image; they are hurting somebody that God loves and Jesus died for.

[b]9. [/b]Ephesians 4:32 says an I quote, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.”

And lastly to all racist and discriminating Christians, if you are really Christians as you call yourselves, and supposedly believe in what the Bible tells you, You need to present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Romans 6:13)

Therefore @hotfunmi, @4Him and other Christians that think racism, discrimination or tribalism is acceptable by your beliefs, I have spoken the language you best understand.

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