Your Jesus is still alive. Muslims agree to that? Nothing new about that.

Islamism- The New Global threat?

I dont agree, because if I look at people dying everyday in Iraq for example, most are muslims, so the question is:-
Is it really a religion issue? Lets think and be honest in regards.

Noble death is the type of suicides that is common (Japanese type of suicides) based from cultural beliefs, so not considered really a problem.

Nigeria was not recently rated, that ratings was long ago. Nigerians are very optimistic people, and thats what is very disturbing, because it affects proactiveness that can boost growth. "Its going to be ok" attitude is what is ruining Nigeria today. Religion is beautiful if practice properly, but it seperates people. Spiritually bonds people rather.

hmm strange as it may seem, but quite unintellectual.

1. Muhammad is thirsty for blood as acclaimed by you? TayoD, your proof to reach such a deduction? References would be appreciated. Thank you.

if Muhammad is not the author and finisher of your faith, is it Allah (the middle-eastern moon god) who Muhammad was able to disguise as the true God the one who called you to be a Muslim? Stop deceiving yourself. Shine your eyes, and deliver your soul.

Evangelism or trying to be argumentative? I am still trying to figure that out. Anyway the simple question is, did you learn history?

There are Muslims all over the world so are there other different faiths and beliefs, who have basis for their beliefs but the question here is does Islam based on what it preaches encourage aggression?

The message is what is important here not the practice? If the religion does include aggression in its teachings then you have every right to debate in respect, but if it doesn't, I don't see why you would claim it is bad?

Just like someone mentioned the crusade, and you defended it by saying it was the past. Well here we are living in the present and things like that is repeating itself, but still are they following the guidance of their beliefs?

Please only argue objectively with proofs and reasons, stop just throwing words you pick from the dictionary or derived from hatred towards the religion. Sentiments doesn't help in an intellectual discussion, dont you agree ?

Thank you.

Are you english? Well I am not, I just happened to be able to speak the language.

Would it be fair to use the christians interpretation to the english word "God" ?, Is the language of the founder of christianity English? Does he have the authourity to change the original meaning of a word to suit his preachings?

In Arabic the word Allah is used to denote the word "Al-Rab" which directly qualifies to the english word God, from arabic linguistics.

In Hebrew "Yahweh" which happens to be the language spoken by the Jews and the main language of the bible, do they used the word "Yahweh" to denote the english word "God"?

God to an english man does not go beyound.
1. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

Simple as that, no complexity of association by christians, or non-association by Muslims. Period. Non of you are english, period, and from the arabic denotation of Allah being "Al-Rab" equates to the meaning given by the English man.

Does it speak the same for the christians? Was "Yahweh" actually the word been used, in the bible and traslates to the English word for God today? I leave it to you to research that.

English makes it very simple. Allah denotes God, as understood by the non believing English man.

Who is sure, that him or her is going to heaven? Just curious

They would indeed give you answers with lots of biblical quotations as if you believe in them. Thats the kind of answers you would get from the church.

Mocking God entails directly making fun or God or abusing God in a way. I have not seen that yet? All I have read so far in threads under this category are directed towards curiousity to know. Questions being asked, does not mean attack? Or Layi meant something else?

Dont know. I am still yet to read articles of relation to "mocking God" as in the context of Layi's concerns.

lioness:

A pastor said its better to be a muslim than a catholic.

fabian:

That's a terrible thing to say! What pastor is that? i would like to know!

That is christians for you, at display, yet they claim to be, what is it again

It has been proven by past historical events, that only a "few" amount of people are normally in the right "cause". The question is what congregation would that be?

So called Christains? A lot of people read their books, because it is always the word. It gets the largest crowd.Think again.
Muslims? Difficulty and mis-intepretation drives people away. People don't read about what their books preach, they just assume and conclude.
Budhists? People don't read about their books, so they are always taught to be idolators, which actually they arent.
Hindus? Just like Budhism, people don't read about them, they just conclude.
and so and so.

And religion itself is questionable, since it is a human created term to qualify a certain collection or should i say congregation with one belief. But is religion turning to cultism?

Some practices in some religions points towards that direction.


Lioness and Fabian are you "true" christians? or Allow me to re-phrase it, Do you think you are "true" christians?

When a person is myopic, irrational, are not educated, how then would he/she think he is elightened? We are not taught one subject in school for example, have you given it a taught as to why it is so?

Why is christianity , islam or even other religions better than each other? I am still yet to get an intellectual answer, because there is always this irrational approach presented by the believers in disscussing religious related subjects.
I think it is like tribalism, or racism or even worse than that.

Religion seperates people, believe it or not. It brings disorder in the world we live in today, just as tribalism and racism does.

chrisd:

John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me."

But by me I like that, not by believing in death to clear sins. .

Anywayz Thak God it is "according" to "John" in the bible not "according" to "God" or even "Jesus". or According to who is it in this case?

But really this verse does make sense, in a way, that is from my logical reasoning which means, you have to "believe in him", which means "believe in his words", which does not necessarily mean the "words" of those that "claim" to "speak" on his "behalf". One beauty of the bible, that always amazes me is the "according to" been used. But who knows even whether he really said those words, since it is "according to"? I wonder

And by the way so, who would go to hell? Non Christians?? hahahha but "Christianity" is an english which is used to defines those that follow the supposed "Teaching of Christ". Which is really questionable. Sometimes I am even confused to what happened to the teachings of "the old testament".

But well this is just my opinion. Treat it with rationality.

alheri:

One of your muslim brothers raised the question earlier. HE gets my point and why I brought it up.

Well he did and he was answered, and for you to emphasise on it, grants me the freedom to answer it thereafter. I dont intend to judge you , I want to hear it from your written words, exactly what your intention was. Just an advice for future conversations, do you research first .

well @chrisd, you are very right, she is even confused of what she is even talking about.

@Alheri

you said

Apart from that, I know you have to clean out your mouth and genitals when you do this cleansing. Are you telling me that using sand to clean out your mouth and genitals is "reasonable and simple"(according to kismat) and spiritual and gets you cleansed enough to go into the presence of Allah? How does the water/sand cleanse you on the inside?

sand to clean the mouth and genitals?

Did you do your research on how ablution with sand is performed? Do you know it is different in regards to some steps when it comes to water?

Are you are muslim? If not , why the curiousity in that relation? Do you have something in mind, that you would like to share? If your intention was mockery? Pardon me ! Why?

I am confused here please I can only have intellectual discussion with people who have their facts based on knowledge aquired through reading and their stance towards that knowledge. Besides that , I am not in the mood of going round and round a circle leading to nothing. Please let us know Alheri, what your intention is. Thank you.

@chrisd

Thanks for the explanation on sand. I don't blame their way of debating without research.

@ Alheri,

Can you define Logic please?

When I say it is a "spiritual cleansining process" in preparation for "religious act".

its preety simple to understand from a logical approach I suppose?

Ok maybe I should give a day to day example. you clean your shoes with polish to look fine. Now on your way to maybe school. Dust covers the shoe, but polish is not available, you can use a rag to clean it, to keep the shoe in that state of looking fine.


lets assume the polish is water in ablution and the sand is "duster" or "rag". And bathing process is applying oil.

Applying the analogy of using something else not rag or duster or even polish, something else like oil which goes in maybe ensuring the shoe looks sortof clean, but doesnt really achieve the actual state of what shinning the shoe is achieved with. Would you approve oil rather because the shoe looks shiny? No, so is bathe. You need to use polish or a "duster". you need to undergo the spiritual process of attaining a spiritual stage.

Islamic teachings defines factors that can "nullify" it, such as defication, urination etc, and also defines what brings you to the state of that certain mode of spiritual readiness.

Islamic teachings tells you alternatives if that water is not present. So is the existence of duster, but not oil which is bathing.

Dust dirties the shoes based on nature , so is defined factors that "nullifies" ablution.

Very Logical I suppose . You didnt see it coming

Thanks for asking.

Muslims think anything that does not allow questioning or logical reasoning is not the right path, and its plain dictatorship or even worse than that. If you have watched Islamic preachings or any religious sermons that is not a path of a process to a certain worship i.e( the jumaat and Ed-celebrations sermon not included because of the nature of the sermon which is normally targetted to the propose of that certain worship i.e which is not generally morality preaching inclined.), you would always see the "room" for questioning being always created. You can ask and you would be answered. You wont be tagged anti-God, as if it is a cult.

To us "tithe" is ungodly, we do not think God needs our material gains. From the Islamic perspective, Human and the Jinns were created to worship God, that is we have a purpose. And what God enjoins us to do is give to the needy "directly or indirectly".

Directly meaning going to the charity or the needy and making the donation, or indirectly donating something to the mosque for charity.

Giving alms to the poor is known as sadaqa.

We also have what we is called Zakat, which is normally a yearly compulsory contribution, if the conditions are met.

Zakat is the amount of money that every adult, mentally stable, free, and financially able Muslim, male and female, has to pay to support specific categories people.

This category of people is defined in surah at-Taubah (9) verse 60: " The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarers; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is knower, Wise." (The Holy Qur'an 9:60).


Zakat is obligatory when a certain amount of money, called the nisab is reached or exceeded. Zakat is not obligatory if the amount owned is less than this nisab. The nisab (or minimum amount) of gold and golden currency is 20 mithqal, this is approximately 85 grams of pure gold. One mithqal is approximately 4.25 grams. The nisab of silver and silver currency is 200 dirhams, which is approximately 595 grams of pure silver. The nisab of other kinds of money and currency is to be scaled to that of gold, 85 grams of pure gold. This means that the nisab of money is the price of 85 grams of 999-type (pure) gold, on the day in which Zakat is paid.

So I hope you see the Islamic perspective. God does not need your material gains, all he needs is your obedience and worship.

But just curious, are they forced to be priests? or it is their choice knowing alright the laws of the catholic church that governs that choice?

This is because "sympatizing" on the choice made by "someone" knowing quiet alright the rules governed by that choice, is really funny. Or is Profbills not a catholic? maybe a protestant, trying to critisise catholic practices.

I am a muslim, but I dont allow "emotions" to cloud my judgement. I try to be very rational, open-minded and at the same time speak the truth when it comes to religious debates especially. I am also willing to learn everyday on why other religions do what they do, to give me a better chance of getting my message acrosss.

So what do you say from the "catholic's" perspective of the essence of "priesthood" , what it entails and why "they dont marry", and what is your own personal opinion towards the original catholic's teaching?

Can we hear from catholics? Enough from protestants or whatver.

I still do not get the differences.

Church A man of God perform miracles, read from the bible , and take tithes.

Church B does the same.

Now the followers of Church B assume because the type of preachings in Church A is unlike the one of Church B, therefore Church A must be evil. All that Church A does is quote to suit its activities and needs. And does some extra stuffs like promising its followers that whoever believe shall be blessed with wordly gains to increase its crowd especially in a country like Nigeria, were poverty and unemployment had forced people to be religious.

Isnt it interesting? I find it interesting. Religion today especially "Christianity" in "some" churches in Nigeria has being directed towards a way to fullfill wordly gains and get special favours from God, and that I find amazing , or maybe troubling.

Is this what christianity all about? When did you become God, to judge other practices? All you can do is point at things they do that is bad, and quote in respect on why it is bad. I don't think christianity preaches tagging others bad, because they don't follow what you were taught to follow in your church.

Christians in the 70's or even 80's in Nigeria, werent like this .

The bible says this but you are doing the exact opposite of this. thats exactly what we all want to hear, not judgemental accusations based on what your pastor taught you, or what you assume is wrong without written proofs.

I taught i answered that. Ablution in Islam is a human spiritual cleasening process observed "by muslims" through certain special steps, based on "intention", to "cleansen the mind and the soul" in preparation for "religious" acts such as prayer etc.

I wonder why christians are curious for that knowledge. You don't need it , if you are not a muslim? But as a muslim you should know what it is, and the question should not come to existence, because it serves no propose.

If I am not mistaken, even Jews perform ablution before religious acts, not only Muslim.

So may I know why the question was raised?, the definition should answer your reason on why muslims make ablution .

Bunch of hypocrites !! How many of you are virgins, or inactive sexually.

Well we are all sinners arent we?

theORAKU:

Am very surprised at this opinion of yours.
A muslim for that matter.

I bet you have forgotten this verse,

"He is Allâh, than Whom there is Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but he) [i]the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open)[/i]. He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful."
(Al Hashr, 59:22)

Suprised because you werent taught Islamic Jurisprudence? or Suprised because your background is just SSCE (IRK)? That I do not understand. Well we are all learning everyday arent we?

Your quotations is intact and serves its propose. I did not debate against the Knowledge. What I am debating was choice based on free will. But please I encourage you to read my post on destiny in Islam. It is located here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-4452.0.html#msg149720

Might educate you or you might want to drop one or two things with the quotations.

@theORAKU Sorry I didnt see the Question.
But now I see it.

Please remember that destiny is defined in Islam, and I covered that in the thread of Fate with quotations. So please read through.

So u saying GOD didnt knw they will break the law? even before they did?
YES , he didnt know their choice before they did.

Or maybe GOD doesnt have control over Ibliss or knw Ibliss will come and incite them?

Ok seems you don't know the Qurans message in regards. But let me quickly cover that.
God had control over Ibliss but based on the teachings Ibliss made the choice of choosing to be evil by refusing the commands of God to postrate in respect, due to the Jelousy he had against Adams vast knowledge. He believed angels were supreme and human creations werent necessary, and thus he refused to postrate in respect and was banished from heaven. And he promised to misdirect humanity.

And asked Allah to grant him just one thing "long life". Well Allah did. But in that relation he thereafter promised to try to incite the creations of Allah untill then join him and be his servants. That is Satan.

Well Allah then said

that whoever follows his (Allah's) guidance and message would be shielded from the tempation of the devil which would mis-direct him from making the right choice.

Well Iblis then tried inciting Adam , he was successful, and the prayers from Adam and Eve for forgiveness, and there was the covenant, and thats why they came to earth from heaven.

I tried to summarize the whole events, but I guess that answers your question. Adam made the choice.

God did not know their choice, they made the choice. THe choice is not under destiny in Islam.

Fate: A final result or consequence; an outcome.

@theORAKU What is the use of that knowlegde to a christian or non believer?

Besides TheORAKU do you really understand "destiny" from the islamic perspective. I do encourage that you read or get yourself educated in that relation. The choice of Adam and Eve was not pre-destined, but the effects of the choice was known. That is the knowledge part.

alheri:

You believe your Qur'an through Logic. I believe my Bible through faith. My God is PERFECT and chose to have a Son who lived a life of purity, is till now without Sin. They ways of God cannot be understood through logic, My God cannot not be explained by logic. He is far above any logic found in this world!

Your God cannot be explained by Logic? who said he can be? What I said was his "message" to his creations. My debate was directed towards the use of a "message" that has no logical meaning or can't be understood?

faith (fāth) pronunciation
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

What is perfection to you? I really did not get that.

Faith is developed through understanding and logic, but once it is developed it does not rest on it, because that position is attained already.

If I choose faith to believe in something, then every religion has a chance, based on any intepretations I choose to apply to it. I am a human. Humans are governed by natural laws that guide them through healthy living , and religion should be threated the same way. The Choice must be based on what you know and understand, and what is good for your future or should I say after life. Not what you choose based on just assumption that hopefully it is the truth. You must be convinced in a way through the message. But its upto us, we have the freedom of free will. You can choose whathever you like.

Hmm its really a pity.

@theORAKU
Anywayz, abulution is a spiritual act of cleansining and it goes through stages of intention and focus. That it is why its different from bathing which is just basic cleansining of the body.

God created Adam and Eve and gave them the choice. Based on Islamic teachings they were incited by Iblis (Otherwise known as satan) to make the choice, that broke the law. And period they broke the law.

Its like peer pressure. Period. The choice is yours.

theORAKU:

@logical,
God's words and workings is beyond the logical reasoning of the greatest human being.

Thats according to you, not according to what I believe. And thats why Islam is a beautiful religion, it allows you to question, to challenge, and to use logics.

God's words to humans should be logical, otherwise it is useless, and sends know message and therefore establishes no propose. Why believe in something you cannot understand? I still don't get it.

I just wish that we could apply logics with the Bible or we could apply human basic understanding of language construct. argh

I concluded to that fact because from what I have read so far I can only understand this from them "you can't apply logic to the bible", it has to be specially interpreted by a specific source, maybe a Pastor, who knows. which means until he interpretes it, they are in a state of confussion, which means , They do not understand it.

Something without a logical answer would of course need an authourity for definition based on the scope of what it is supposed to be, or the way it is supposed to be interpreted, as they said. So it is according to the bible, and interpreted based on the Pastor or the Bible school teacher understanding.

But before that , there is no understanding, so with that I can conclude they do not understand it. They can only be told what it is. So I think my assertion is correct. Otherwise a simple question should be receiving a simple answer.

Thats what I have deduced from what I have read so far. You cannot apply logics and deduction to the bible message.

Or cant I apply logics to assume that too . Pardon me .

As we all know Atheism is an english word, with a meaning attached to it.

According to Wikipedia......

Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of god(s). That is, all who do not have such a belief - whether they think of themselves as nontheists, agnostics or even Buddhists - are covered under this term. Atheism can also be defined more narrowly as the active denial of the existence of god(s), either of a specific or general kind, or even that god(s) can exist. Thus, even Christians can be considered atheists with respect to the question of the existence of Zeus or Odin. But, generally speaking, atheism refers to a lack of belief in all deities for any reason(s).

So it is a Position not a belief. Totally support the definition.

coughs:: clears throat.

Very interesting thread. But honestly what I did not understand is, plain simple.

The Bible => A supposed book of Godly words, maybe a guide to the followers, which can't be understood?

What is the use of it then?

OK what I think is this, opinion mind you, so don't go bombarding me with something out of context, I would never believe in something I do not understand or can't interpret. It is as simple as that.

Until Bible becomes understandable based on common sense and logical reasoning, then and only then would I be able to discuss it or even debate it.

Throwing argument on something the followers said you can't understand, nor even be able to interpret is a total wastage of time, and thus there is nothing intellectual about all the debates in this thread so far. I doubt whether they do even understand it. Well maybe the understanding is for special people. It must be spiritually attached, doesnt that make it creepy?

A guide is something that you can understand and be able to interpret and apply logic straight away in real time. And honestly to me, the bible is not a guide or shouldnt be called one.

Opinions , so treat it with rationality.

I just had wish we could argue based on logic and human understanding, but No we can not. How pathetic.

@nferyn,
If you had debated towards arguing based on theory of logic then I wouldnt say much. Its a pity that you dont want to see beyound what you have made yourself to believe, nor do you want to open room for accomodating new knowledge based on basic reasoning and adjustment.

You claim you are open but in reality, you are closed. I dont expect you to accept, but what i expect from you is logical reasoning and debating based of facts and what is laid down already. Not what you have made yourself to believe.

To end my debate on this topic, I would like to quote a basic logical rule for you to digest.

p->q
q->r
deduction:: p->r
Which means p implies q and q implies r therefore p literally implies r. The deduction is assumed but does not exist, but its logical, so is free will.

1 + 1 = 1 arithmetic law
1 + 1 = 10 binary law
Therefore 1 + 1 can either be 1 or 10, depending on what law we choose to apply. The choice of the law does not question our already knowledge because we already have that knowledge. So is freedom of free will.

I just hope this is not too much for your brain . Have a nice day.

@Nferyn

Om·nis·cient
a.

[Omni- + L. sciens, -entis, p. pr. of scire to know: cf. F. omniscient. See Science.]
Having universal knowledge; knowing all things; infinitely knowing or wise; as, the omniscient God. -- Om·nis·cient·ly, adv.


Having universal knowledge. Yes Allah does have universal knowledge, but the choice of mankind is not knowledge. It is the choice of which he makes, the effects of the choice is knowledge. My apologise, but I think you dont see what I am trying to explain.

I dont want to confuse you, I think I have tried my best in trying to explain the difference between knowledge and choice made by factors that surrounds the knowledge. its logical. I think.