₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
See devil, 2019 to 2020 is 5 years and not 4 years

Dtruthspeaker:
Says the devil.

Dtruthspeaker:
Exactly as you have just done, you are the devil who says that the act of pulling a person out of a burning train is wicked. And when I clarify, I call you devil, you evil bastard.

And now you have shown the world that you are a an evil demon no matter what, as I have always pointed out. Devil incarnate.

Dtruthspeaker:
You definitely remember that we were terrible enemies even 5 years ago.

A001:
There's no where in that paper where the author stated the mind is a product of physical elements.

Don't say what a source never stated.

As I stated before, the mind is an emergent property of fundamental consciousness, the same position of the paper. The diagrams attached to my previous post already explains this.

Your position is starkly different from the author's.

A001:
I regard mind as an emergent property, too, but not from the workings of the brain and other parts of the body. Such a notion is superficial and will always be problematic; historically, it has done little to resolve the mind-body problem.

It's better to regard mind as an emergent property of fundamental consciousness as explained in the Four-Layer Architecture or FLA model proposed by the same scientist I mentioned earlier, which postulates four architectural layers of consciousness (see attached pictures).

Without incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, Chalmers' hard problems of consciousness will never be solved, and we'll never be able to understand mind deeply and measure it.

Many scientists (myself inclusive) are working on incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, especially the Standard Model. It's the way forward.

Check out some relevant papers and books on the current scientific progress on consciousness research:
1. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karl-Sipfle/publication/364708467_Consciousness_the_Full_Stack_Four-Layer_ArchitectureLanguage_on_Mind_on_STFC_Part_1_of_4_An_SSRN_Top_Ten_download/links/6357dc5796e83c26eb527c05/Consciousness-the-Full-Stack-Four-Layer-ArchitectureLanguage-on-Mind-on-STFC-Part-1-of-4-An-SSRN-Top-Ten-download.pdf
2. https://osf.io/6b3qw/download
3. https://icmacyfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Consciousness_and_the_Universe__Quantum_Ph_-_Roger_Penrose.pdf

I may share links to my own papers too later.

triplechoice:
I will take my time to respond to that. Don't want to rush it.

But in the meantime, I hope you are aware your explanations in that post doesnt have full scientific backing.

triplechoice:
Your agbada is also hooked too .

You want to jest, yet, you have not been able to scientifically explain how mind has emerged from the brain, or clearly show how this 'mind ' interacts with the observable physical brain to control human behaviour



You still depend on the speculatory theory of some scientist to argue this.

triplechoice:
Before you start blaming anyone, first of all ,explain clearly how mind has emerged from the brain, and the other body parts you mentioned.


The claim that mind is an emergent property of brain function is based on Sperry's concept of mind.

It doesn't find full scientific support yet. It's speculatory theory at this point in time, and nothing more.

But you keep repeating it everywhere as fact, or something that has been conclusively proven to be true.

There is no general consensus in the sciences on how mind has emerged. Nobody knows or can explain it in the sciences

KnownUnknown:
They should resolve their problem by locating the mind that is independent of a body. Lol

TenQ:
Move on bro!
Your understanding of "Emergent" was wrong even with your ChatGPT poster. I spelt it out for you.

Move on: it cost you nothing to do so!

TenQ:
It is not just about the word EMERGES but UNDERSTANDING how it is used and why it was used. This negates everything you've been saying. Anyone with a little understanding of surface tension sees how problematic your understanding is.
1.
Which doesn't make sense

2.
The problem is that you don't understand the concept of Wetness

3.
There is no property of water that is an emergent property especially Wetness

4.
Here I give you some definitions for the sake of comprehension .


It's not a crime to misunderstand science. Even me have to keep quiet when experts in certain fields of science are speaking.

I am not happy because what would have been an interesting conversation has been digressed into what is not necessary.







The Question of pounder is:
1. Is the Mind Real or it's just chemicals acting on biological matter?
2. If the Mind is real can it be measured?
3. If the mind is just chemicals acting on matter, then it may not be real. It is just a symptom of chemicals acting on biological matter.

triplechoice:
It was why I drew your attention to it so as to remove the confusion

triplechoice:
Before you start blaming anyone, first of all ,explain clearly how mind has emerged from the brain, and the other body parts you mentioned.


The claim that mind is an emergent property of brain function is based on Sperry's concept of mind.

It doesn't find full scientific support yet. It's speculatory theory at this point in time, and nothing more.

But you keep repeating it everywhere as fact, or something that has been conclusively proven to be true.

There is no general consensus in the sciences on how mind has emerged. Nobody knows or can explain it in the sciences

A001:
I expected you to at least read those materials above to update your knowledge on consciousness. Your views on the subject are getting obsolete.

You assume you understand what you're arguing about, but you don't have the slightest idea.

I think I've said enough on the subject. I've a lot on my table.

A001:
And where does the functioning of the body emerge from? I don't know how you want to rule out consciousness sha.

And I hope you're not making the mistake of thinking complexity yields consciousness.

triplechoice:
. You already made it clear initially that wetness' only emerges when molecules of water are interacting with one another. You are confusing us

A001:
The mind-body problem: A longstanding question in philosophy examining the relationship between the mind and the body, or more specifically, the relationship between mental phenomena and physical phenomena. The mind-body problem raises fundamental inquiries about the nature of consciousness, subjective experience, and their connection to the physical world.

For an overview, check this out: https://www.blackwellpublishing.com/content/bpl_images/content_store/sample_chapter/0631217746%5Cstich-001.pdf

A001:
I regard mind as an emergent property, too, but not from the workings of the brain and other parts of the body. Such a notion is superficial and will always be problematic; historically, it has done little to resolve the mind-body problem.

It's better to regard mind as an emergent property of fundamental consciousness as explained in the Four-Layer Architecture or FLA model proposed by the same scientist I mentioned earlier, which postulates four architectural layers of consciousness (see attached pictures).

Without incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, Chalmers' hard problems of consciousness will never be solved, and we'll never be able to understand mind deeply and measure it.

Many scientists (myself inclusive) are working on incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, especially the Standard Model. It's the way forward.

Check out some relevant papers and books on the current scientific progress on consciousness research:
1. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karl-Sipfle/publication/364708467_Consciousness_the_Full_Stack_Four-Layer_ArchitectureLanguage_on_Mind_on_STFC_Part_1_of_4_An_SSRN_Top_Ten_download/links/6357dc5796e83c26eb527c05/Consciousness-the-Full-Stack-Four-Layer-ArchitectureLanguage-on-Mind-on-STFC-Part-1-of-4-An-SSRN-Top-Ten-download.pdf
2. https://osf.io/6b3qw/download
3. https://icmacyfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Consciousness_and_the_Universe__Quantum_Ph_-_Roger_Penrose.pdf

I may share links to my own papers too later.

triplechoice:
The ' chatgpt result' doesn't fully support your explanation.



If a surface is coated with grease, 'wetness' cannot emerge when water comes in contact with it, meaning that water on its own cannot emerge 'wetness'

A001:
I regard mind as an emergent property, too, but not from the workings of the brain and other parts of the body. Such a notion is superficial and will always be problematic; historically, it has done little to resolve the mind-body problem.

It's better to regard mind as an emergent property of fundamental consciousness as explained in the Four-Layer Architecture or FLA model proposed by the same scientist I mentioned earlier, which postulates four architectural layers of consciousness (see attached pictures).

Without incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, Chalmers' hard problems of consciousness will never be solved, and we'll never be able to understand mind deeply and measure it.

Many scientists (myself inclusive) are working on incorporating consciousness into our models of Physics, especially the Standard Model. It's the way forward.

Check out some relevant papers and books on the current scientific progress on consciousness research:
1. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karl-Sipfle/publication/364708467_Consciousness_the_Full_Stack_Four-Layer_ArchitectureLanguage_on_Mind_on_STFC_Part_1_of_4_An_SSRN_Top_Ten_download/links/6357dc5796e83c26eb527c05/Consciousness-the-Full-Stack-Four-Layer-ArchitectureLanguage-on-Mind-on-STFC-Part-1-of-4-An-SSRN-Top-Ten-download.pdf
2. https://osf.io/6b3qw/download
3. https://icmacyfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Consciousness_and_the_Universe__Quantum_Ph_-_Roger_Penrose.pdf

I may share links to my own papers too later.

TenQ:
No sir.

You were the one who did NOT comprehend what ChatGPT was saying.

According to your ChatGPT attachment, Wetness was defined in terms of ability to
1. Ability of a substance to adhere to another surface and create a film on it
2. Polar water molecules forming hydrogen bond on the surface in question
3. This property is NOT intrinsic to the water molecules itself, but rather emerges from the interaction between water molecules and other molecules in the environment


Please read the last sentence of your ChatGPT attachment and dispute about it as usual.

You should laugh at yourself

TenQ:
Of course water wets Objects: probably you don't understand what ChatGPT was saying.

You were of the opinion that

"So, get it straight, wetness EMERGES when molecules of water are acting in concert with one another, wetness does not exist in the molecules of water."

This is very wrong

Water wets Objects!

There is no dry water!

TenQ:
I'm not sure where you got this

TenQ:
Dictionary definition
Wetness:
consisting of, containing, covered with, or soaked with liquid (such as water)

Wetness is an adjective to describe a state when an OBJECT is coated with water.

It is nonsensical to say wet water except if you can have dry water.
Why?
In a general definition of wetness Water is the "only" liquid that makes an object WET!

Is there any situation when a pool of water is wet? No!

TenQ:
Your example is NOT good at all.
Why?

Water is the substance that can make other things wet, but it is not typically considered wet on its own. Instead, we usually describe water as a liquid or as being capable of wetting other substances.

When water clings to an object, the object is said to be WET. That is, the property of water sticking to an object is what is called wetness of the object

TenQ:
Emergent means coming out of
Property means attribute, quality of something

Meaning that the Mind doesn't exist by itself. But if it cannot be quantified, how can it be said to exist?

Mass, Gravitational force, Magnetic fields etc are all measurable physical properties. Can the Mind be measured?

TenQ:
I guess your definition is a cryptic as ever !
Mind emerging property from where?
Reaction between chemicals or interaction of chemicals with molecules?

It looks vague because how can we prove that your comprehension of this post is emerging property from something?

LordReed:
Mind as far as we know is the emergent property of the workings of the brain and other parts of the body,

TenQ:
Are you saying that the mind is the electrical impulses measured in the brain?

How can the mind be real when it cannot be measured (except you believe the mind is electricity)?

NDEs show that it seems that consciousness can exist even when brain signals is zero!

Imaging patterns of the brain are measured electrical signals, what do you think is the cause: chemicals!?

TenQ:
I am not sure we have: this is about the reality of the mind and not the soul.

Is the mind real?
Is there an objective evidence for it?

Is the mind just simply chemicals acting on biological matter?

TenQ:
LordReed, what ye have to say?how real is the mind since there isn't a single objective evidence for it.
Is the mind just chemicals acting on biological matter?

Dtruthspeaker:
I know you do remember it, you are just pretending not to. And I do not have the time to start digging up past records especially as it can not help you.

Dtruthspeaker:
Like I do not know that your questions always have an underlying evil and blasphemous element in it and that you are never bonafide.